Creatonism In US Schools

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The_Last_Ride

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#51 The_Last_Ride
Member since 2004 • 76371 Posts

@Seiki_sands said:

@The_Last_Ride: Which is a reason not to teach it in science, but you shouldn't ignore it in history, since it informed the outlook and is part of the context of nearly every western and middle eastern person since pre-history. Knowing that modern humans have been around for 100,000 plus years changes how we see ourselves and our history relative to how people of the past saw themselves. Knowing the planet is 4 billion years old and that hominin pre-history accounts for only the last 6 million changes our outlook on the world, our conception of possibilities; the fact that people in the past had a different conception seems an important fact to bring up in history class. There is a lot more mystery in our modern world. To people in past centuries nearly all of human history was considered a known event in their conception, and not merely by the uneducated or ignorant ones, but by all the geniuses and all the leaders that anyone could hold in esteem.

Always worth remembering that the father of the modern scientific method itself "spread the good news" for a day job as a Franciscan friar, and the Occam's razor principle so many try and use as a starting point for attacking belief itself, was likewise thought up by a Franciscan friar.

But maybe I misunderstood your original statement, which I took to mean "you can teach elements of the bible other than creationism in history, but not creationism since it holds no value".

I don't deny it, but it holds nothing of value when it comes to information. For someone to literally to believe that the earth is 5000 years old is fucking stupid.

Well you can teach them about what it is, but nothing more than that

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AdobeArtist

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#52 AdobeArtist  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25184 Posts

@alim298 said:
@foxhound_fox said:
@alim298 said:
But still I don't see how being an evolutionist instead of a creationist helped me become a better person at all.

Well, if you were a literal creationist, i.e. someone who believed the Bible story were historical and scientific fact, it would pretty much ruin any opportunity you could have to land a job in any science-related field (which accounts for most of the well-paying career fields that aren't labour-related) and would create a lot of social problems for you to interact with "normal" evolution-believing society. Especially if you applied the idea that "I believe it, so it must be true" to all your opinions and interactions.

But it's fortunate that literal creationists are a (very) vocal minority in North America. And despite efforts, cannot overcome the law.

That may be true but is teaching creationism in schools any worse than telling kids that storks bring babies? I mean if the kid is sensible enough, when he grows up he'll figure out how humans really came to be right? It's not like he's going to buy that story for the rest of his life.

You'd be surprised how many people take such biblical stories (Earth created in 6 days, being only 6000 years old, talking snakes, the flood story, etc...) completely literally. It's the very foundation of creationism.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#53 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
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@AdobeArtist said:
@alim298 said:
@foxhound_fox said:
@alim298 said:
But still I don't see how being an evolutionist instead of a creationist helped me become a better person at all.

Well, if you were a literal creationist, i.e. someone who believed the Bible story were historical and scientific fact, it would pretty much ruin any opportunity you could have to land a job in any science-related field (which accounts for most of the well-paying career fields that aren't labour-related) and would create a lot of social problems for you to interact with "normal" evolution-believing society. Especially if you applied the idea that "I believe it, so it must be true" to all your opinions and interactions.

But it's fortunate that literal creationists are a (very) vocal minority in North America. And despite efforts, cannot overcome the law.

That may be true but is teaching creationism in schools any worse than telling kids that storks bring babies? I mean if the kid is sensible enough, when he grows up he'll figure out how humans really came to be right? It's not like he's going to buy that story for the rest of his life.

You'd be surprised how many people take such biblical stories (Earth created in 6 days, being only 6000 years old, talking snakes, the flood story, etc...) completely literally. It's the very foundation of creationism.

No it isn't. Christian fundamentalism and young earth creationism is a modern idea going back only as far as the early 20th century. Christians before then didn't believe those stories literally.

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AdobeArtist

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#54 AdobeArtist  Moderator
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@Aljosa23: I was sure that the earlier generations of Christians were the ones who took the passages more as reality than the more contemporary followers. And that young Earth Creationism is a resurgence of that mentality.

But anyway, I was mainly addressing Alim's post how most people grow out of those stories as they mature into adults, that there are probably far more than he realizes who do regard them as reality, even into late adulthood. Ever hear of Ray Comfort and Ken Ham? To them the biblical passages are historical truths (even the far fetched ones like talking snakes and parting of the Red Sea), not mere stories.

The most absurd claims being made by creationists being that dinosaurs and humans co-existed, and had even boarded the Ark.

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fenriz275

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#55 fenriz275
Member since 2003 • 2394 Posts

Creationism in schools is a new thing in the US. When I was in school in a red state a few decades ago evolution was taught as a fact, it's only been in the last decade or so this bs has become an issue.