Deep questions I ask myself about the Chrstian faith.

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"][QUOTE="nitekids2004"] Ok how about this: God knows every branch in future, past, present history. Whether you will make a sandwich or not cannot be directly controlled by God, but he knows what will happen if you do or do not make a sandwich. Imagine the passage of time as a branch with being split whenever we make a decision, God knows every branches.nitekids2004

Okay, branches are symbolizing the choices we make, but God is supposed to know what choices we are going to make because he is all-knowing. That's like me going up to a person eating and saying,"I knew you were going to wipe your mouth, I knew you were going to take that bite." Saying God just knows where all the choices end up just doesn't make sense, him being God and all.

Ok. i copied this from an answer in the net: 'God doesn't see "the future", for God exists outside of time, and has no future, present or past. He just sees the entire continuity of time simultaneously. Therefore He sees every choice of free will made by every human being from the first to the last, which is how He knows them. However, someone merely observing us making free will choices, either from a viewpoint in linear time, or from God's viewpoint outside of time, doesn't have any effect on the freedom of those choices." since I'm no Bible scholar or anything.

And again I repeat myself... The Bible says specifically that God knows what your going to do before you do it. So either the thing from the net is false, or the Bible is.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hamstergeddon"] Obviously you don't know about how a baby is made :( When a mommy and a daddy love each other very much they engage in - *cencored*- and then each of the 23 daddy chromosomes split randomly and fuse with the 23 mommy chromosomes. And that's why each baby from the same parents are different from each other because the random splitting of chromosomes means we never know exactly how the baby's gonna turn out :D K? Astrapsody

Actually it's in your logic. He never said people will act a certain way because of this. He's saying that everyone will act DIFFERENT because of this.

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However, you inferred that people are a product of their parents and their environment and thus they "act" a specific way. Now you are saying that two individuals with the same parents and environment are different. Which is it?....this is a major contradiction in your logic.LJS9502_basic

- God is supposed to know what your going to do and think before you even do it (or think it). If this is so, why did he create Adam knowing he would disobey him by eating from the tree of knowledge (or whatever it was called)? And why did he even put the tree there in the first place?

I believe people can shape their own destinies, God is just there to guide you on your way. You can follow His path or go the wrong way, it's up to you.

- Why aren't angles perfect? Lucifer used to be the best angel and he was somehow tempted to think,"I want to be like God", and he was thrown into hell (although there is supposed to be no temptation in heaven. This is also supposed to be how the dinosaursw got here. God let Lucifer take over and Lucifer created dinosaurs, when God got back from his vacation in Hawaii, he didn't like the whole dinosaur thing so he turned the Earth upside down.

Why would they be perfect?

- God flooded the whole world. Noah took two of every single species of animal in the Earth (they had heard he had a good buffet on the ark) and stuffed them in the ark with his family. So after all the children and innocent people died, God gave Noah a rainbow and told him,"I'm not doing that again, it wasn't a very good idea in the first place." (I'm obviously making fun of the story, but you know how it goes) After that, Noah gets to repopulate planet Earth.

You don't have to take the story literally.

- Moses goes to free the slaves and God puts a plague on the Paroah and his people. The tenth plague is that every first-born Egyptian child dies. Wow, don't punish the actual people, punish their children.


Affirmative action is the same thing. :P

- This is just a fun thingy: God created the Earth before he created light. So he created the Earth in the dark (and he didn't do a bad job).

It's symbolic.

- Everyone who doesn't believe in what Christians believe or anyone who isn't saved will burn in hell forever. We are supposedly created in his image, all of us, so if he makes us knowing where we are going to eventually end up then...


People don't go to hell if they're not Christians, they go to hell if they sin.

- The only reason people are the religion they are is because they were born into a family that believed in a certain belief or because they were born in an area that did. So we are, by accident (chance) Christian, Hindu, Muslim, etc.

Wrong, I chose to believe.

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="Silverbond"]

I consider the first seven chapters of Genesis to be myth with truth to be learned.

Also, Christianity isn't the only religion with a flood story.

Astrapsody

I'm afraid a world covering flood means a WORLD COVERING flood. Not a few dozen kilometers. The Bible doesn't say God flooded the areas where people lived only, he said the world. And while there's geoligical evidence of a flood that took place around the area of Iraq, there's none that apply to the whole world.

Parents raise children relatively the same. Both siblings live through the same environment....one may have been their two years earlier but overall it's the same basic principles, home, values etc instilled in both. Yet they will not be carbon copies of each other. Even identical twins can have differing personalities.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"][QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="Silverbond"]

I consider the first seven chapters of Genesis to be myth with truth to be learned.

Also, Christianity isn't the only religion with a flood story.

LJS9502_basic

I'm afraid a world covering flood means a WORLD COVERING flood. Not a few dozen kilometers. The Bible doesn't say God flooded the areas where people lived only, he said the world. And while there's geoligical evidence of a flood that took place around the area of Iraq, there's none that apply to the whole world.

So the area of which the world flooded depended on how much the people knew? Don't try to b.s. your way out of this. Either the whole world flooded as the Bible claims or it didn't flood at all, which would disprove the Bible.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hamstergeddon"] Chromosomes are a function of the environment (IE how your parents "do it" to make you... not being serious about this part :P) But seriously, chromosomes are completely random and different siblings have different environments (being born at different times in different "ways") of being born. Siblings born 2 years apart form each other obviously are going to turn out different because teh environment is different! Even inside the womb! hamstergeddon

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Parents raise children relatively the same. Both siblings live through the same environment....one may have been their two years earlier but overall it's the same basic principles, home, values etc instilled in both. Yet they will not be carbon copies of each other. Even identical twins can have differing personalities.Astrapsody

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="Silverbond"]

I consider the first seven chapters of Genesis to be myth with truth to be learned.

Also, Christianity isn't the only religion with a flood story.

Astrapsody

I'm afraid a world covering flood means a WORLD COVERING flood. Not a few dozen kilometers. The Bible doesn't say God flooded the areas where people lived only, he said the world. And while there's geoligical evidence of a flood that took place around the area of Iraq, there's none that apply to the whole world.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

I'm afraid a world covering flood means a WORLD COVERING flood. Not a few dozen kilometers. The Bible doesn't say God flooded the areas where people lived only, he said the world. And while there's geoligical evidence of a flood that took place around the area of Iraq, there's none that apply to the whole world.

Astrapsody

So the area of which the world flooded depended on how much the people knew? Don't try to b.s. your way out of this. Either the whole world flooded as the Bible claims or it didn't flood at all, which would disprove the Bible.

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Uh....you are still created from the same genetic material. Your parents are still your parents. They ae a defined character. They don't morph. As for environment...it's not that different. Parents raise children relatively the same. Both siblings live through the same environment....one may have been their two years earlier but overall it's the same basic principles, home, values etc instilled in both. Yet they will not be carbon copies of each other. Even identical twins can have differing personalities.LJS9502_basic

I believe people can shape their own destinies, God is just there to guide you on your way. You can follow His path or go the wrong way, it's up to you.

Wrong way? Hmm..

Why would they be perfect?

Yeah, your right. I wouldn't want perfect angels either.

You don't have to take the story literally.

The Bible is supposed to be Gods' word. Are you not supposed to take it literally?!

Affirmative action is the same thing. :P

Evil is the same thing.

-It's symbolic.

Everything people can't explain in the Bible gets turned into a symbol.

People don't go to hell if they're not Christians, they go to hell if they sin.

Biggest b.s. statement on this board yet. Do you read the Ten Commandments? Thou shalt have no other gods before me and shall worhip no false idols. That is a sin. If your not Christian, you worhip a different god and you will go to hell. (But he still loves you)
Wrong, I chose to believe.

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Ah but back then the entire world was much smaller to those people. They did not know the extent. Thus, while we know the world is larger...they only considered what they knew of the world as the world. If you never left your neighborhood nor had access to mass media you would not know how large the world is either. It all depends on the knowledge one possesses.;)Silverbond

So the area of which the world flooded depended on how much the people knew? Don't try to b.s. your way out of this. Either the whole world flooded as the Bible claims or it didn't flood at all, which would disprove the Bible.

The Bible is God's word, and if the Bible is wrong, then God is wrong.

Astrapsody

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hamstergeddon"] Still they have different environments. For example when I was a kid (i was the oldest) my parents would often neglect me and go play with the baby. Did that make me have a different outcome than my little attention whoring brother (I still haven't gotten over it)??? You betcha it did. And chromosomes mean not everybody has the same genes. Someone may have 62% mommy genes and 46% daddy genes or 20% mommy genes and 80% daddy genes. All depends on how the chromosomes splice in the egg (environment)



EDIT: Or for that matter you could be like my sister and be 40% mommy and 60% poolboy. Just needed to get that out of my system...hamstergeddon

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Parents raise children relatively the same. Both siblings live through the same environment....one may have been their two years earlier but overall it's the same basic principles, home, values etc instilled in both. Yet they will not be carbon copies of each other. Even identical twins can have differing personalities.LJS9502_basic

I know siblings are not the same. (That may have been an arguement you had with somebody else) And no, not all people are able to think and reason for themselves. Adults are, but children aren't. Children are brought up being taught that they're religion is the only true one. They aren't able to think beyond that, they just accept it.

I'm considering this one of the few victories in the life of hamstergeddon. Anyways, i got work tomorrow. It's been fun, peace out, and don't forget to brush your teeth! hamstergeddon

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Still would be similar to a degree. You would form the same opinions as presented by your parents. I don't know about you but I rarely had the same opinion as my parents. The entire basis for your opinion is that people don't think for themselves. I don't find that to be true. As I said...I am differnet than my siblings, and my parents. Coming from the same parents and the same environment does not mean one is programmed. Though you are still not allowing for any noticeable difference amongst siblings. They would still be rather generic under your plan with a minimal difference to some odd incidents none of which would dramatically change the individual to a great degree.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Astrapsody"] And where are you getting this information. Some imaginary realm inside your mind? Fact is. Sometimes parents raise children relatively the same, and sometimes they don't. Environment affects people so radically because of the way they experience it (had to get down to the specifics for you), not just the environment.Astrapsody

I know siblings are not the same. (That may have been an arguement you had with somebody else) And no, not all people are able to think and reason for themselves. Adults are, but children aren't. Children are brought up being taught that they're religion is the only true one. They aren't able to think beyond that, they just accept it.

Now, did it say in any of those passages "You shall stone him/her"?

No, but it's in the Bible and the Bible is God's word.

[QUOTE="hamstergeddon"]I'm considering this one of the few victories in the life of hamstergeddon. Anyways, i got work tomorrow. It's been fun, peace out, and don't forget to brush your teeth! LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hamstergeddon"] Maybe the fact that you're parents believed one thing prompted you to believe the exact opposite? My point is anything that creates and molds our brain is ultimately beyond our control. Therefore, while we have the illusion of making a choice (in our brain we are making a decision) that brain was destined to turn out the way it did from the beginning, so we have no free will. And of course you are different than your parents and siblings. You were raised under different circumstances, possess a different set of chromosomes and live under a different environment. Face it. Free will is nothing more than an illusion to help us through life :D hamstergeddon

I used to be a Christian, then I started doing what Christians don't want you to do, think.

- Everyone who doesn't believe in what Christians believe or anyone who isn't saved will burn in hell forever. We are supposedly created in his image, all of us, so if he makes us knowing where we are going to eventually end up then...

Astrapsody

-It's the bible's teachings that are against thinking-- not the followers. There's a difference.

-The concept of sin answers that. A common biblical phrase is "there are none good but god".

No, but it's in the Bible and the Bible is God's word.

Astrapsody

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Which is exactly my point. Siblings are NOT the same. People are different. They think for themselves. Environments are generally stable for most siblings and parents are the exact same people. Yet siblings are different. Thus, more goes into people than you are giving credit. I for one think most people can and do think and reason for themselves.LJS9502_basic

I know siblings are not the same. (That may have been an arguement you had with somebody else) And no, not all people are able to think and reason for themselves. Adults are, but children aren't. Children are brought up being taught that they're religion is the only true one. They aren't able to think beyond that, they just accept it.

"Children do have the capacity to think and reason. (duh...sorry) Not one the level of adults (my point)..."

Yes, that's true, but the religion that they were brought up in has a great effect on what they will choose to be when they get older. Why else would America be considered a Christian nation.

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

No, but it's in the Bible and the Bible is God's word.

harashawn

It doesn't command anybody to stone anyone, true. It does say that it will happen (isn't it worse to declare a horrible truth than to command somebody to do it?)

And again, it's in the Bible nevertheless. There's no getting around it.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

I know siblings are not the same. (That may have been an arguement you had with somebody else) And no, not all people are able to think and reason for themselves. Adults are, but children aren't. Children are brought up being taught that they're religion is the only true one. They aren't able to think beyond that, they just accept it.

Astrapsody

"Children do have the capacity to think and reason. (duh...sorry) Not one the level of adults (my point)..."

Yes, that's true, but the religion that they were brought up in has a great effect on what they will choose to be when they get older. Why else would America be considered a Christian nation.

American has a high number of Christians but is not a Christian nation per se. And by your logic people would all still be Christians in the majority of Europe and the US as other religions didn't spread there and atheism is relatively a new idea. Peoplde can and do switch faiths...or leave faith entirely. This not support your statement.

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

I used to be a Christian, then I started doing what Christians don't want you to do, think.

- Everyone who doesn't believe in what Christians believe or anyone who isn't saved will burn in hell forever. We are supposedly created in his image, all of us, so if he makes us knowing where we are going to eventually end up then...

dracula_16

-It's the bible's teachings that are against thinking-- not the followers. There's a difference.

-The concept of sin answers that. A common biblical phrase is "there are none good but god".

Yes, okay, I know that. The Bible also makes it very clear that only certain people will get to heaven.

Good point with your first statement by the way. I was clearly wrong when I said it was the actual Christians, it is the teachings.

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Actually I disagree with that as well for several reasons. One children do have the capacity to think and reason. Not on the level of adults but it is something they can perform as children. Two...from a religious view children just go with the flow but I'd not say they have strong opinions either way. Until they can think and reason about what faith means to them...it's almost nonexistent to them. It's there but beyond their grasp. To embrace faith one has to have thought about it....or it's lacking.LJS9502_basic

"Children do have the capacity to think and reason. (duh...sorry) Not one the level of adults (my point)..."

Yes, that's true, but the religion that they were brought up in has a great effect on what they will choose to be when they get older. Why else would America be considered a Christian nation.

That was NOT a contradiction. Children are not able to think and reason FOR THEMSELVES. Sure they can think and reason when a parent is shoving stuff down their throat.

American has a high number of Christians but is not a Christian nation per se. And by your logic people would all still be Christians in the majority of Europe and the US as other religions didn't spread there and atheism is relatively a new idea. Peoplde can and do switch faiths...or leave faith entirely. This not support your statement.

America is actually considered a Christian nation. Has there ever been a president who wasn't?

Okay, i havent read all of these posts, but id like to share my thoughts on christiainity

i am a christian, first of all, and yes, i was raised to be one. but to say that people are only a certain religion because their parents raise them that way is rediculous. I know a lot of people who were raised in a home that practiced another religion, or who didnt practice at all, and they ended up being christians anyways, regardless of what their parents did.

sure, there are a lot of things about God and creation that we will never know. But think about it, if we knew EVERYTHING about God, then he wouldnt really be a God would he? he would be a being of equal intelligence to us, which would make him no greater than us.

A central theme of the Bible, and Christianity in general is faith. God tells man that he cannot get through heaven by works, but through faith. Faith means not knowing everything there is to know, but still believing. I for one, choose to believe that there is something after this life. If you think about it, isnt the idea of nothing after life just striaght up depressing? whats the point of anything if there is nothing after life? I believe in God the father because he sent his son to die for us all. We sinned, we screwed up his plan, and so he sent his SON to die for us. and his perfect sacrifice allowed all of us to become holy in God's eyes. The only thing he asks, is that we believe. thats it.

also, regarding the whole free will thing, I totally believe in it. Look, God may know what you are going to do, but that doesnt mean you are forced to do anything. If you wanted to go kill ten people and then yourself, theres nothing holding you back. But if you choose not to, then you can do that also. nothing will force you to do either things, which means you can do what you want, which is free will. If eve wanted to, she could have resisted the serpents tempting and not eaten the apple. but she, as a human who makes mistakes, CHOSE to.

anyways, just sharing some thoughts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

"Children do have the capacity to think and reason. (duh...sorry) Not one the level of adults (my point)..."

Yes, that's true, but the religion that they were brought up in has a great effect on what they will choose to be when they get older. Why else would America be considered a Christian nation.

Astrapsody

That was NOT a contradiction. Children are not able to think and reason FOR THEMSELVES. Sure they can think and reason when a parent is shoving stuff down their throat.

American has a high number of Christians but is not a Christian nation per se. And by your logic people would all still be Christians in the majority of Europe and the US as other religions didn't spread there and atheism is relatively a new idea. Peoplde can and do switch faiths...or leave faith entirely. This not support your statement.

America is actually considered a Christian nation. Has there ever been a president who wasn't?

Hi again. :)

Uh....you are still created from the same genetic material. Your parents are still your parents. They ae a defined character. They don't morph. LJS9502_basic

No, they don't "morph", technically, but the body does go through changes on a daily, even hourly basis. If a couple of years go by, two parents genetic makeup can be dramatically different than they were from a couple of years ago, and if they decide to conceive another child, there is possibility for great difference between the new child, and it's older siblings already alive. I know of brothers and sisters who have the same two parents, yet look, act, talk, and think completely different. Major height and wieght differences, different hair and eye colors, differing levels of physical health (some are more prone to illness than others), etc. And that's just the basics.. I don't want to get too deep into this right now.

As for environment...it's not that different. Parents raise children relatively the same. Both siblings live through the same environment....one may have been their two years earlier but overall it's the same basic principles, home, values etc instilled in both. LJS9502_basic

Sorry, this is way off. Parents tend to raise their children differently from each other, and most of these differences come from what they know about each individual child. If there are two brothers in a family, and one is a genius, while the other is a complete remedial, they will be treated differently by the parents. For example, the remedial will not be expected to do as much as the genius, he will not be pushed as hard as the genius, and the genius might have more leniency shown towards him, as his parents will know that he is better able to take care of himself in day to day situations compared to his remedial brother who may require constant supervision, among other things.

Girls are also raised a HELL of a lot differently than boys. This happens in my own family, so I know it for a fact. My sister was raised completely different than my brother and I. Not only that, but all of my uncles and aunts raised their daughters differently than they raised their sons. I hope I don't have to give examples, as they should be pretty obvious to anyone who isn't blind, or at least paying attention to the world around them.

I for one think most people can and do think and reason for themselves.LJS9502_basic

Except for those who buy into religious belief sets that were concocted before they were even alive...

But you probably knew that already. :)

I'm Christian, but lately I've been having doubts about this whole religion. I mean if our faith IS true, millions of people are going to hell because they didn't accept Jesus Christ. It feels like my whole life is being dictated by a supernatural being.lonewolf604

I used to be a Christian, then I started doing what Christians don't want you to do, think. Here are a bunch of questions/ideas that keep me from believeing this religion.

- God is supposed to know what your going to do and think before you even do it (or think it). If this is so, why did he create Adam knowing he would disobey him by eating from the tree of knowledge (or whatever it was called)? And why did he even put the tree there in the first place?

According to many creationists I've talked to, it is all a part of God's "Divine Plan." I find this explanation silly, however, because it is only overcomplicating the situation to the upmost extreme. Why do you need to create an entire universe, two naked people and some "plan" that could be solved instantly by a quick snap of your two almighty fingers? You're God, God dammit! You can create any sort of reality, solve any sort of problem, and know any sort of action or event that'll take place in the future without even trying, so why not just complete the "Divine Plan" right now? The whole create-the-universe-and-wage-a-holy-war-between-good-and-evil-to-fufill-an-almighty-blueprint thing is simply a divine Rube Goldberg device.

- Why aren't angles perfect? Lucifer used to be the best angel and he was somehow tempted to think,"I want to be like God", and he was thrown into hell (although there is supposed to be no temptation in heaven. This is also supposed to be how the dinosaursw got here. God let Lucifer take over and Lucifer created dinosaurs, when God got back from his vacation in Hawaii, he didn't like the whole dinosaur thing so he turned the Earth upside down.

God, according to Christianity, is the only perfect being and anybody below him (including angels) are suspectible to the temptations of sin. This has always baffled me, however, because heaven is described as being a sanctuary from sin, an oasis where only the perfection of God is present. Temptation is labeled as a sin, so how could Lucifer (as you said before) fall prey to the temptations and greed (also known as a Deadly Sin, because these sins can kill you) when sin was not only absent within the presence of heaven, but non-existant within reality at all? It seems like yet another plothole in the Bible to me, right up there with the story of Job and Noah's Ark.

- God flooded the whole world. Noah took two of every single species of animal in the Earth (they had heard he had a good buffet on the ark) and stuffed them in the ark with his family. So after all the children and innocent people died, God gave Noah a rainbow and told him,"I'm not doing that again, it wasn't a very good idea in the first place." (I'm obviously making fun of the story, but you know how it goes) After that, Noah gets to repopulate planet Earth.

...Speak of the devil. I find that story rather awkward too, to be honest. I mean, did he bring every sort of animal onto the Ark? After all, some animals probably wouldn't have been a good idea to include on the Ark at the time, such as Termites of Woodpeckers.

- Moses goes to free the slaves and God puts a plague on the Paroah and his people. The tenth plague is that every first-born Egyptian child dies. Wow, don't punish the actual people, punish their children.

In God's defense, he told Moses to inform the Hebrews to wipe the blood of a lamb above the door frames of each house in order to spare the first-born child's life. Then again, that's putting the burden of responsibility on Moses, and it could've been Monday Night Football later that evening. "Watch football or paint my house in blood? Watch football or paint my house in blood?..."

It is unacceptable that God punished the first-born child of each family, that is undeniable. With relevance in mind, this also relates to the "Divine Plan" explanation I stated above, as he is only overcomplicating the situation to a perpetual state of loony. He could've just snapped his fingers and teleport all the Hebrews to the land of milk and honey, or he could've just sent Moses to cajole Ramses II with his godlike skills of persuasion. God instead turned the Nile into blood; He flooded Egypt up to it's neck in frogs and locusts; He showered hail, boils and darkness upon the citizens; He killed all the first-born sons in Egypt; and to top it all off, He divided the Red Sea in half. HALF!... You know, it's probably fun being a deity and treating humanity like ants with a magnifying glass, but that doesn't stop Him from being such a boob.

- This is just a fun thingy: God created the Earth before he created light. So he created the Earth in the dark (and he didn't do a bad job).

Little does the Bible mention, but God invented night-vision goggles before anything else.

- Everyone who doesn't believe in what Christians believe or anyone who isn't saved will burn in hell forever. We are supposedly created in his image, all of us, so if he makes us knowing where we are going to eventually end up then...

Yet another plothole within the Christian religion, as with many other religions out there. Oh well, it'll be pretty cool playing Uno with Socrates, Charles Darwin and Albert Einstein, minus the whole screaming-bloody-murder-torture thing.

- The only reason people are the religion they are is because they were born into a family that believed in a certain belief or because they were born in an area that did. So we are, by accident (chance) Christian, Hindu, Muslim, etc.

As humans, we do not know (and possibly will never know for sure) if we were created by an intelligent designer or if we're just the products of amino acids bonding in layers of Carbon and Hydrogen a few billion years prior of now. I've come to accept this and stand at a mostly atheistic viewpoint of life, although I do not completely deny the possibility of there being some sort of divine entity watching over us. However, for the time being, I only believe what physical evidence and logical conclusions lead me to believe, and no religion (not even Christianity) has supplied me with empirical evidence for the eixstance and legitimacy of their gods as of now. Maybe we'll one day find a sticky note on a tree stump saying, "God was/still is here," and then I'll proceed to start reading the Holy Bible and praying to him every night before bed; until then, I shall only claim knowledge of what is supported by the fields of scientific study.

Feel free to post your thoughts. I respect everybody's opinions.

Astrapsody

[QUOTE="nitekids2004"][QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

Okay, branches are symbolizing the choices we make, but God is supposed to know what choices we are going to make because he is all-knowing. That's like me going up to a person eating and saying,"I knew you were going to wipe your mouth, I knew you were going to take that bite." Saying God just knows where all the choices end up just doesn't make sense, him being God and all.

Astrapsody

Ok. i copied this from an answer in the net: 'God doesn't see "the future", for God exists outside of time, and has no future, present or past. He just sees the entire continuity of time simultaneously. Therefore He sees every choice of free will made by every human being from the first to the last, which is how He knows them. However, someone merely observing us making free will choices, either from a viewpoint in linear time, or from God's viewpoint outside of time, doesn't have any effect on the freedom of those choices." since I'm no Bible scholar or anything.

And again I repeat myself... The Bible says specifically that God knows what your going to do before you do it. So either the thing from the net is false, or the Bible is.

Okay, i havent read all of these posts, but id like to share my thoughts on christiainity

i am a christian, first of all, and yes, i was raised to be one. but to say that people are only a certain religion because their parents raise them that way is rediculous. I know a lot of people who were raised in a home that practiced another religion, or who didnt practice at all, and they ended up being christians anyways, regardless of what their parents did.

Yes, but I'm sure that there is always a reason as to why people choose a certain religion. If your friend was born into a different family, in India for example, he would have most likely been a different religion. This applies to everyone since I don't know one person who has actually had this "buffet" of religions laid out in front of him to choose from. You even said that you were raised to be one. I think that is wrong, I think everyone should be given knowledge about all other options and be able to choose for themself.

sure, there are a lot of things about God and creation that we will never know. But think about it, if we knew EVERYTHING about God, then he wouldnt really be a God would he? he would be a being of equal intelligence to us, which would make him no greater than us.

Yeah, that's the whole "divine plan" argument. God works in mysterious ways. and we'll never know why he does these strange things.

A central theme of the Bible, and Christianity in general is faith. God tells man that he cannot get through heaven by works, but through faith. Faith means not knowing everything there is to know, but still believing. I for one, choose to believe that there is something after this life. If you think about it, isnt the idea of nothing after life just striaght up depressing? whats the point of anything if there is nothing after life? I believe in God the father because he sent his son to die for us all. We sinned, we screwed up his plan, and so he sent his SON to die for us. and his perfect sacrifice allowed all of us to become holy in God's eyes. The only thing he asks, is that we believe. thats it.

"We screwed up his plan" - I'm told two different things by Christians. 1) It was part of Gods plan for us to screw up since he gave us free will. 2) Screwing up was not part of his plan. (Even though He is supposed to know what we are going to do before we do it)

I'm not depressed about it at all. It's just another reason to live my life out to its fullest. (And that does NOT mean I don't live by morals!)

also, regarding the whole free will thing, I totally believe in it. Look, God may know what you are going to do, but that doesnt mean you are forced to do anything. If you wanted to go kill ten people and then yourself, theres nothing holding you back. But if you choose not to, then you can do that also. nothing will force you to do either things, which means you can do what you want, which is free will. If eve wanted to, she could have resisted the serpents tempting and not eaten the apple. but she, as a human who makes mistakes, CHOSE to.

Yes, I know we have choice, but God is supposed to know what we are going to chose, he is supposed to be an all-knowing God that knows every breath we are going to take from the time we are born to the time we die.

anyways, just sharing some thoughts

Cool.

montieman

can i answer these from the islamic view? :Pk--m--k

I don't see why not, here, let me help you get started.

"Islam teaches that apostates are to be killed. We know from historic Islamic documents that during Muhammad's lifetime, and the lifetimes of the next four "Rightly Guided Caliphs", tens of thousands of Muslims left the faith of Islam and thousands were killed. On a large scale the Muslims made war on groups that chose to leave Islam and massacres of apostates occurred. On a smaller scale individual apostates were executed. This death sentence is in effect whether or not the apostasy occurred in or out of the Islamic state."

I totally agree with you,

The stories that was place for us to believe how we started off i just think are fairy tails to tell children. They arn't really real as the way Christians describe it.

And i think there god is quite cruel to all the things he did to us, i mean come on. You make a race that would be perfect and peaceful, but instead look what we became in our short history on the long old earth.

He abandon us for the coming of 2012, only then shell he will return, just to be question on why he allow us to destroy our self's

I used to be a Christian, then I started doing what Christians don't want you to do, think. Here are a bunch of questions/ideas that keep me from believeing this religion.Astrapsody

No no no... you don't get to do a mass insult here. Please read the stickies for specific guidelines about how to approach religious threads in OT. In particular, notice the part that says the content must have a respectful tone.