Did Jesus Christ Sin? (Poll)

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for -Sun_Tzu-
-Sun_Tzu-

17384

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#101 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Look at this article:
http://www.carm.org/questions/about-jesus/if-jesus-god-flesh-why-did-he-not-inherit-original-sin

Crushmaster

But Eve ate the apple first.

You are correct. But who is the sin attributed to? Adam! (1 Corinthians 15:22) - "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

But God said that neither of them shall eat the apple. Eve ate it first, thus Eve sinned first, thus sin was brought into the world through her.

Avatar image for BumFluff122
BumFluff122

14853

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#102 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"lonewolf604
There is actually a well known union where they discuss their various evangelical post in OT and plan them accordingly. Anyhow i must go now.

Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#103 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"lonewolf604

Actually, what I do is send out a telegram to the CWU's members.

Avatar image for Eddie5vs1
Eddie5vs1

6085

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#104 Eddie5vs1
Member since 2004 • 6085 Posts
[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

That's pretty ironic. You don't seem to think that the producers of the documentary were biased, trying to disprove that Jesus rose from the dead, yet anyone refuting it is biased. That's a good one.

The only tomb that people need to concern themselves with is the empty tomb.

"Dr. Simon Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University and author of A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. He was determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. He examined the value of the historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ to ascertain the truth. He applied the principles contained in his three-volume treatise on evidence. His findings were recorded in his book, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. He came to the conclusion that, according to the laws of legal evidence used in courts of law, there is more evidence for the historical fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ than for just about any other event in ancient history.

Dr. Greenleaf was so convinced by the overwhelming evidence; he committed his life to Jesus Christ!" source: Evidence that Demands a Verdict

:lol: I asked for an unbiased source, and you go on the defensive. Nice. ;) I never said the documentary was true, and I think those who provided that as evidence also need to provide unbiased evidence of its authenticity. In regard to the empty tomb comment, that's your opinion. I would like to see all sides of an argument and all evidence before making a decision. Also, I never said Dr. Greenleaf wasn't a bad man, I said he was biased. He has strong convictions that the Bible is accurate (I'm not saying it isn't), but that conviction doesn't allow him to be neutral in terms of evidence.

I provided two sources that refute the biased claims of the producers of the documentary. If that is not sufficient, then I suggest you do your own research. There is a wealth of information available but I do not feel burdened to be a research assistant. If you want more information, I suggest you research the matter yourself.

First, please see my edit. Secondly, it is the person who makes a claim that bears the responsibility for providing evidence. That also goes for those who first claimed the tomb was authentic.
Avatar image for blackregiment
blackregiment

11937

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#105 blackregiment
Member since 2007 • 11937 Posts

its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"lonewolf604

It's a work of God my friend, a work of God.

Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#106 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts
its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"lonewolf604
Actually they do. Every time Crush starts an evangelism thread he sends two union wide PMs about it so that everyone can join in. It's not a coincidence that these threads have several CWU members in them at a time.
Avatar image for Deihjan
Deihjan

30213

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#107 Deihjan
Member since 2008 • 30213 Posts
If Jesus didn't sin, then there wouldn't be anything to talk about. Now, please, Crushmaster, scidaddle back to your union and pray for us lost souls here on OT. x.x
Avatar image for blackregiment
blackregiment

11937

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#108 blackregiment
Member since 2007 • 11937 Posts

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Eddie5vs1"] :lol: I asked for an unbiased source, and you go on the defensive. Nice. ;) I never said the documentary was true, and I think those who provided that as evidence also need to provide unbiased evidence of its authenticity. In regard to the empty tomb comment, that's your opinion. I would like to see all sides of an argument and all evidence before making a decision. Also, I never said Dr. Greenleaf wasn't a bad man, I said he was biased. He has strong convictions that the Bible is accurate (I'm not saying it isn't), but that conviction doesn't allow him to be neutral in terms of evidence. Eddie5vs1

I provided two sources that refute the biased claims of the producers of the documentary. If that is not sufficient, then I suggest you do your own research. There is a wealth of information available but I do not feel burdened to be a research assistant. If you want more information, I suggest you research the matter yourself.

First, please see my edit. Secondly, it is the person who makes a claim that bears the responsibility for providing evidence. That also goes for those who first claimed the tomb was authentic.

As I said, I provided two links, if that is not sufficient for you, I suggest you research the issue to your satisfaction.

Avatar image for Darth-Caedus
Darth-Caedus

20756

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#110 Darth-Caedus
Member since 2008 • 20756 Posts
[QUOTE="lonewolf604"]its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"domatron23
Actually they do. Every time Crush starts an evangelism thread he sends two union wide PMs about it so that everyone can join in. It's not a coincidence that these threads have several CWU members in them at a time.

Thats just sad really....
Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#111 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

But God said that neither of them shall eat the apple. Eve ate it first, thus Eve sinned first, thus sin was brought into the world through her. -Sun_Tzu-

Through both of them, actually. Eve was deceived by the Serpent; Adam was not. The Serpent went for Eve because she was the "weaker vessel" (see 1st Peter 3), and not for Adam. Adam, being the man and the protector, failed in his duty to protect Eve, and also gave in to his wife's request to also eat of the Fruit.

It is attributed to Adam because Adam is the man.

Avatar image for Darth-Caedus
Darth-Caedus

20756

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#113 Darth-Caedus
Member since 2008 • 20756 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]But God said that neither of them shall eat the apple. Eve ate it first, thus Eve sinned first, thus sin was brought into the world through her. Crushmaster

It is attributed to Adam because Adam is the man.

So god is sexist?:o
Avatar image for Eddie5vs1
Eddie5vs1

6085

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#114 Eddie5vs1
Member since 2004 • 6085 Posts

[QUOTE="lonewolf604"]its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"Crushmaster


Actually, what I do is send out a telegram to the CWU's members.

Again, I can't blame you. I'd like to add though that these types of threads often turn people away from Christ. You really need to be careful to show a positive side to Christianity or you're more likely to push others away than to draw them in. Just my opinion. :)

Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#115 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

Actually they do. Every time Crush starts an evangelism thread he sends two union wide PMs about it so that everyone can join in. It's not a coincidence that these threads have several CWU members in them at a time.domatron23

You are incorrect, I am afraid. I only send out one TCWU telegram.

Avatar image for chessmaster1989
chessmaster1989

30203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#116 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

Since we are discussing tombs, here is a article that discusses the real tomb that matters, the empty tomb of Jesus Christ and it impact it had and will have.

"There are "many infallible proofs" of the bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, but the testimony of the empty tomb is the most conclusive of all. Jesus had been buried, with the tomb sealed and guarded by a watch of Roman soldiers. Yet on the third day of His burial, on the morning of the first day of the week, the body was no longer there, and the empty tomb still stands today as an unanswerable proof that the Lord Jesus rose from the dead.

There are other proofs, of course. The ten or more recorded appearances of the resurrected Christ to His disciples, the amazing change of demeanor of the disciples from that of fearful hideaways to fearless evangelists, the worldwide spread of the Christian faith as founded on the resurrection, and so on. But the impact of the empty tomb was the foundation and bulwark of all the rest. As we consider its impact on the world, and on us today, it is instructively fascinating to consider first its impact on those who first encountered it."

I encourage you to read the entire article here...

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_impactoftheemptytomb/

blackregiment

You know, BR, I still have never seen you provide a non-Biblical source asserting that the tomb was empty after 3 days :lol:

Avatar image for Wolf-Man2006
Wolf-Man2006

4187

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#117 Wolf-Man2006
Member since 2006 • 4187 Posts

If Christ sinned, then hewas neverthe Son of God at all.

Avatar image for Omni-Slash
Omni-Slash

54450

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#118 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
I lost respect for Big J......I mean you'd think the son of God could hit a curveball.......(whomever gets that reference gets a cookie)....
Avatar image for chessmaster1989
chessmaster1989

30203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#119 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="darkguy_101"]

Fourth commandment:4.- Honor your father and mother.

Jesus ran away from his parents to go to a church. Don't you think that they were dishonored, not only by people that lived near him but by people on the church he was? What is that child doing here without his parents? Those parents are bad, they let their kid go run away!

darkguy_101

...Jesus didn't run away. Look at the Scripture passage describing that event I posted above.

Did he told his parents he was leaving? They didn't know.

My Link sniper jesus protests me against everything (except divison by zero), what does your Jesus protects you against?

Holy crap, I laughed so hard :lol:

Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#120 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts
I never really got an answer for my first post. Even if Jesus was a deity he still had a man's form and presumably a mans genitalia. Given that Jesus had a penis and a body pumping with testosterone can we really deny that he also had inconvenient erections, wet dreams, impure thoughts and all of the other sinful goodness that comes with being a man?
Avatar image for -Sun_Tzu-
-Sun_Tzu-

17384

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#121 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

Through both of them, actually. .

Crushmaster
Okay. That kinda refutes your entire argument then.
Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#122 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

Did he told his parents he was leaving? They didn't know. darkguy_101

He didn't leave.

Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#123 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

So god is sexist?:o Darth-Caedus

No. But He does place great responsibility on men, being they are the leaders, protectors, and providers.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180038

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#124 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180038 Posts

I never really got an answer for my first post. Even if Jesus was a deity he still had a man's form and presumably a mans genitalia. Given that Jesus had a penis and a body pumping with testosterone can we really deny that he also had inconvenient erections, wet dreams, impure thoughts and all of the other sinful goodness that comes with being a man?domatron23
Many people live celebate lives....and then too we sex drive varies amongst people.

Avatar image for Locke562
Locke562

7673

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#125 Locke562
Member since 2004 • 7673 Posts

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="darkguy_101"]

Fourth commandment:4.- Honor your father and mother.

Jesus ran away from his parents to go to a church. Don't you think that they were dishonored, not only by people that lived near him but by people on the church he was? What is that child doing here without his parents? Those parents are bad, they let their kid go run away!

darkguy_101

...Jesus didn't run away. Look at the Scripture passage describing that event I posted above.

Did he told his parents he was leaving? They didn't know.

My Link sniper jesus protests me against everything (except divison by zero), what does your Jesus protects you against?

:lol: I can't breathe!

Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#126 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

[QUOTE="domatron23"] Actually they do. Every time Crush starts an evangelism thread he sends two union wide PMs about it so that everyone can join in. It's not a coincidence that these threads have several CWU members in them at a time.Crushmaster


You are incorrect, I am afraid. I only send out one TCWU telegram.

I thought it was one before to remind everyone that there's a thread upcoming and then one again after the thread is made?

Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#127 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

Okay. That kinda refutes your entire argument then. -Sun_Tzu-

Why?

Also, did you read the article?

Avatar image for THE_DRUGGIE
THE_DRUGGIE

25110

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 140

User Lists: 0

#128 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="lonewolf604"]its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"Eddie5vs1


Actually, what I do is send out a telegram to the CWU's members.

Again, I can't blame you. I'd like to add though that these types of threads often turn people away from Christ. You really need to be careful to show a positive side to Christianity or you're more likely to push others away than to draw them in. Just my opinion. :)

Not to mention most posters in OT are adamant in their beliefs. Not to be dubious but I can't recall anyone changing their religion because of an OT thread.

Avatar image for gameofthering
gameofthering

11286

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#129 gameofthering
Member since 2004 • 11286 Posts

I believe in God/Jesus... not these books created by men.

Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#130 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

I never really got an answer for my first post. Even if Jesus was a deity he still had a man's form and presumably a mans genitalia. Given that Jesus had a penis and a body pumping with testosterone can we really deny that he also had inconvenient erections, wet dreams, impure thoughts and all of the other sinful goodness that comes with being a man?domatron23

I posted an article in response to this.

Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#131 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

I thought it was one before to remind everyone that there's a thread upcoming and then one again after the thread is made?domatron23

Ahh, OK. Yes, I sometimes do that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Avatar image for -Sun_Tzu-
-Sun_Tzu-

17384

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#132 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Okay. That kinda refutes your entire argument then. Crushmaster


Why?

Also, did you read the article?

Because the article states that the reason that the father passes on sin is because sin entered through Adam.
Some Bible commentators, with whom I agree, hold the position that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Support for this position is found in the fact that sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve.article
[Sin entered] [t]hrough both of them, actually. .Crushmaster

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180038

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#133 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180038 Posts

[QUOTE="domatron23"]I never really got an answer for my first post. Even if Jesus was a deity he still had a man's form and presumably a mans genitalia. Given that Jesus had a penis and a body pumping with testosterone can we really deny that he also had inconvenient erections, wet dreams, impure thoughts and all of the other sinful goodness that comes with being a man?Crushmaster


I posted an article in response to this.

And that was?

Avatar image for chessmaster1989
chessmaster1989

30203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#134 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="Darth-Caedus"] So god is sexist?:o Crushmaster


No. But He does place great responsibility on men, being they are the leaders, protectors, and providers.

You know, one thing that seriously bugged me while reading Paradise Lost (had to read it for core hum this quarter) was the fairly blatant suggestion of the inferiority of women... >_>

Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#135 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

[QUOTE="domatron23"]I never really got an answer for my first post. Even if Jesus was a deity he still had a man's form and presumably a mans genitalia. Given that Jesus had a penis and a body pumping with testosterone can we really deny that he also had inconvenient erections, wet dreams, impure thoughts and all of the other sinful goodness that comes with being a man?LJS9502_basic

Many people live celebate lives....and then too we sex drive varies amongst people.

I was talking about ill timed erections and wet dreams not sex. Yes sex-drive does vary between individuals but if you stop having the aforementioned bodily functions all together and a healthy imagination then I don't really know what to say about your humanity.
Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#136 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

Because the article states that the reason that the father passes on sin is because sin entered through Adam. [quote="article"]Some Bible commentators, with whom I agree, hold the position that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Support for this position is found in the fact that sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve.-Sun_Tzu-
[Sin entered] [t]hrough both of them, actually. .Crushmaster


I see. Well then, it appears I may have been in error.

Avatar image for Omni-Slash
Omni-Slash

54450

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#137 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
the thing is I don;t mind faith...but what I do mind is blind following with no self reflection.....you're not eveing aruging in response..you just post scripture....scripture that was written by many men.....yet supposedly contained the word of god......God would probably take one look at the bible today and sue for libel....
Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180038

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#138 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180038 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="domatron23"]I never really got an answer for my first post. Even if Jesus was a deity he still had a man's form and presumably a mans genitalia. Given that Jesus had a penis and a body pumping with testosterone can we really deny that he also had inconvenient erections, wet dreams, impure thoughts and all of the other sinful goodness that comes with being a man?domatron23

Many people live celebate lives....and then too we sex drive varies amongst people.

I was talking about ill timed erections and wet dreams not sex. Yes sex-drive does vary between individuals but if you stop having the aforementioned bodily functions all together and a healthy imagination then I don't really know what to say about your humanity.

Some people don't. Different strokes for different folks.

Avatar image for domatron23
domatron23

6226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#139 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

[QUOTE="domatron23"]I thought it was one before to remind everyone that there's a thread upcoming and then one again after the thread is made?Crushmaster


Ahh, OK. Yes, I sometimes do that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Hmm I must have missed it. Do you think you could re-post it?

Avatar image for -Sun_Tzu-
-Sun_Tzu-

17384

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#140 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

I see. Well then, it appears I may have been in error.

Crushmaster
How about we start over with you explaining to me in your own words why women are incapable of passing down sin.
Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#141 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

And that was? LJS9502_basic

This: http://www.carm.org/questions/about-jesus/if-jesus-god-flesh-why-did-he-not-inherit-original-sin

Avatar image for blackregiment
blackregiment

11937

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#142 blackregiment
Member since 2007 • 11937 Posts

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Since we are discussing tombs, here is a article that discusses the real tomb that matters, the empty tomb of Jesus Christ and it impact it had and will have.

"There are "many infallible proofs" of the bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, but the testimony of the empty tomb is the most conclusive of all. Jesus had been buried, with the tomb sealed and guarded by a watch of Roman soldiers. Yet on the third day of His burial, on the morning of the first day of the week, the body was no longer there, and the empty tomb still stands today as an unanswerable proof that the Lord Jesus rose from the dead.

There are other proofs, of course. The ten or more recorded appearances of the resurrected Christ to His disciples, the amazing change of demeanor of the disciples from that of fearful hideaways to fearless evangelists, the worldwide spread of the Christian faith as founded on the resurrection, and so on. But the impact of the empty tomb was the foundation and bulwark of all the rest. As we consider its impact on the world, and on us today, it is instructively fascinating to consider first its impact on those who first encountered it."

I encourage you to read the entire article here...

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_impactoftheemptytomb/

chessmaster1989

You know, BR, I still have never seen you provide a non-Biblical source asserting that the tomb was empty after 3 days :lol:

And I have never seen you provide a Biblical or non-Biblical source from the period asserting that the tomb was not empty.

"Evidence from Josephus
Perhaps the most remarkable reference to Jesus outside the Bible can be found in the writings of Josephus, a first century Jewish historian. On two occasions, in his Jewish Antiquities, he mentions Jesus. The second, less revealing, reference describes the condemnation of one "James" by the Jewish Sanhedrin. This James, says Josephus, was "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ."{14} F.F. Bruce points out how this agrees with Paul's description of James in Galatians 1:19 as "the Lord's brother."{15} And Edwin Yamauchi informs us that "few scholars have questioned" that Josephus actually penned this passage.{16}
As interesting as this brief reference is, there is an earlier one, which is truly astonishing. Called the "Testimonium Flavianum," the relevant portion declares:
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he . . . wrought surprising feats. . . . He was the Christ. When Pilate . . .condemned him to be crucified, those who had . . . come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared . . . restored to life. . . . And the tribe of Christians . . . has . . . not disappeared.{17}
Did Josephus really write this? Most scholars think the core of the passage originated with Josephus, but that it was later altered by a Christian editor, possibly between the third and fourth century A.D.{18} But why do they think it was altered? Josephus was not a Christian, and it is difficult to believe that anyone but a Christian would have made some of these statements.{19}
For instance, the claim that Jesus was a wise man seems authentic, but the qualifying phrase, "if indeed one ought to call him a man," is suspect. It implies that Jesus was more than human, and it is quite unlikely that Josephus would have said that! It is also difficult to believe he would have flatly asserted that Jesus was the Christ, especially when he later refers to Jesus as "the so-called" Christ. Finally, the claim that on the third day Jesus appeared to His disciples restored to life, inasmuch as it affirms Jesus' resurrection, is quite unlikely to come from a non-Christian!
But even if we disregard the questionable parts of this passage, we are still left with a good deal of corroborating information about the biblical Jesus. We read that he was a wise man who performed surprising feats. And although He was crucified under Pilate, His followers continued their discipleship and became known as Christians. When we combine these statements with Josephus' later reference to Jesus as "the so-called Christ," a rather detailed picture emerges which harmonizes quite well with the biblical record. It increasingly appears that the "biblical Jesus" and the "historical Jesus" are one and the same!"

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639/k.567/Ancient_Evidence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm

Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#143 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

How about we start over with you explaining to me in your own words why women are incapable of passing down sin.-Sun_Tzu-

I don't see any point of that, honestly. CARM explains it much better than I:
"If Jesus is God in flesh, why did He not inherit original sin?

If all people have original sin and Jesus was a human being, then didn't Jesus need to have had a sin nature?

Before we can answer this question, we need to know what the term "original sin" means. This is a term used to describe the effect of Adam's sin on his descendants (Rom. 5:12-32). Specifically, it is our inheritance of a sinful nature from Adam. The sinful nature originated with Adam and is passed down from parent to child. We are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3). So, if we inherit our sinful nature from our parents, then Jesus, who had Mary as a parent, must have had a sin nature. Right? Not necessarily. I believe that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Let me explain.

Some Bible commentators, with whom I agree, hold the position that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Support for this position is found in the fact that sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve. Remember, Eve was the one who sinned first. However, sin did not enter the world through her. It entered through Adam. Rom. 5:12 says, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." The concept behind this is called Federal Headship. This means that a person (a father) represents his descendants. We see this concept taught in Heb. 7:9-10, "And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, 10for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him." We see in Hebrews that Levi, a distant descendant of Abraham, is said to have paid tithes to Melchizedek when Abraham was the one offering the tithes, not Levi. What this means is that there is biblical support for the idea that the sin nature was passed down through the father. Since Jesus had not literal, biological father, the sin nature was not passed down to Him. However, since He had a human mother, he was fully human but without original sin. Jesus has two natures: God and man. Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of deity in bodily form." Jesus received His human nature from Mary, but He received His divine nature through God the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus is both God and man. He was sinless, had no original sin, and was both fully God and fully man."
http://www.carm.org/questions/about-jesus/if-jesus-god-flesh-why-did-he-not-inherit-original-sin

Avatar image for darkguy_101
darkguy_101

744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#144 darkguy_101
Member since 2008 • 744 Posts

[QUOTE="darkguy_101"] Did he told his parents he was leaving? They didn't know. Crushmaster


He didn't leave.

But he didn't go with them. He stayed at the temple when he shouldn't.

What if the local pedophile saw him alone?

Avatar image for Saturos3091
Saturos3091

14937

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#145 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

No, because I don't believe in a definite right and wrong.

Jesus by biblical standards was human, and thus he clearly sinned.

Avatar image for blackregiment
blackregiment

11937

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#146 blackregiment
Member since 2007 • 11937 Posts

Well I have to go now. Till later, God bless

Avatar image for Crushmaster
Crushmaster

4324

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#147 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

But he didn't go with them. He stayed at the temple when he shouldn't.

What if the local pedophile saw him alone? darkguy_101

(Luke 2:40-52)- "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. {41} Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. {42} And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. {43} And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. {44} But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance. {45} And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. {46} And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. {47} And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. {48} And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. {49} And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? {50} And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. {51} And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. {52} And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

Furthermore, it wouldn't matter if a "local pedophile" saw Him alone. Jesus was God; the pedophile was powerless to do anything He did not allow.

Avatar image for ragek1ll589
ragek1ll589

8650

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#148 ragek1ll589
Member since 2007 • 8650 Posts

Was Jesus excluded from original sin?

Avatar image for -Sun_Tzu-
-Sun_Tzu-

17384

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#150 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] How about we start over with you explaining to me in your own words why women are incapable of passing down sin.Crushmaster


I don't see any point of that, honestly. CARM explains it much better than I:
"If Jesus is God in flesh, why did He not inherit original sin?

If all people have original sin and Jesus was a human being, then didn't Jesus need to have had a sin nature?

Before we can answer this question, we need to know what the term "original sin" means. This is a term used to describe the effect of Adam's sin on his descendants (Rom. 5:12-32). Specifically, it is our inheritance of a sinful nature from Adam. The sinful nature originated with Adam and is passed down from parent to child. We are by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3). So, if we inherit our sinful nature from our parents, then Jesus, who had Mary as a parent, must have had a sin nature. Right? Not necessarily. I believe that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Let me explain.

Some Bible commentators, with whom I agree, hold the position that the sin nature is passed down through the father. Support for this position is found in the fact that sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve. Remember, Eve was the one who sinned first. However, sin did not enter the world through her. It entered through Adam. Rom. 5:12 says, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned." The concept behind this is called Federal Headship. This means that a person (a father) represents his descendants. We see this concept taught in Heb. 7:9-10, "And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, 10for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him." We see in Hebrews that Levi, a distant descendant of Abraham, is said to have paid tithes to Melchizedek when Abraham was the one offering the tithes, not Levi. What this means is that there is biblical support for the idea that the sin nature was passed down through the father. Since Jesus had not literal, biological father, the sin nature was not passed down to Him. However, since He had a human mother, he was fully human but without original sin. Jesus has two natures: God and man. Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of deity in bodily form." Jesus received His human nature from Mary, but He received His divine nature through God the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus is both God and man. He was sinless, had no original sin, and was both fully God and fully man."
http://www.carm.org/questions/about-jesus/if-jesus-god-flesh-why-did-he-not-inherit-original-sin

Okay, but the bible says this:

Deuteronomy 24:16- "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

So, you can take the uber-literal approach and conclude that sin is passed through the mother, which makes Jesus a sinner, or you can take the reasonable approach and conclude that there is no such thing as original sin, which means that Jesus died for nothing.