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[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]
[QUOTE="diegosanchezMMA"]
i dissagree country is government exactly, im a political science major so im sorry to strongly dissagree
your local governments effect you every day in the town you live in, resulting in how you feel about your town for example
or on a larger scale do you support the war in iraq, because governemnt allowed for this country to go at war with iraq
diegosanchezMMA
They most certainly are NOT the same, dude. Many political science majors I've spoken to have mention the distinct difference between the nation, and the government.
Local governments may effect everyday business, but they are not by any stretch of the imagination the only thing that effects you. A tree I don't like that i drive past everyday could make me feel different about the town, or for that matter the entirety of existence. That does not make it all that exists however.
One of the specific tasks government has is to handle international diplomacy etc. Even then, it is very difficult to say whether because a government declares war upon a nation that the whole nation is actually at war. A country is a region of land. If a "country" is at war with another one, one must either assume that all members living are at war (never the case) or that just simply the government is. Long story short, unless you want to just define "country" as "government," you are very, very mistaken.
governemnt effects every day life
let me ask you this then
if america was run by a dictatorship would it effect your pride in your country, would it effect your life, DUHHDUMM yes it would. why do you think people left europe and came to america. governemnt it a part of your country! i work with people who lived in cuba and left because of fidel castro and his policys and have no pride in their country
I never said that it didn't affect my life. In fact I conceded the opposite, and somehow you still completely failed to make your point. That doesn't by any means mean that it directly defines every piece of it. Hence government = / = Country. There is undoubtedly an effect upon the country by the government, and vice versa, but they are not one and the same.
Yeah, but I wouldn't call myself a patriot to the extent that I would follow my country to wherever even if it is the wrong choice.
I have pride in my country, not because I was born in it, but because of the choices the country makes, together, if the country starts to make the wrong choices, I am no longer proud of it.
Also, our soccer team kinda sucks....
[QUOTE="Visible_ninja69"]
No the USA is so corrupt and stupid. No faith in it
Xx_Hopeless_xX
Yeah but..
Haha I think you misunderstood me. I don't stand by the country at all. I think it's a giant mess and I hardly support it at all. I mean I like the freedom, but it feels like that is being limited so much now, that i'm starting to lose faith in the USA
[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]
[QUOTE="Visible_ninja69"]
No the USA is so corrupt and stupid. No faith in it
Visible_ninja69
Yeah but..
Haha I think you misunderstood me. I don't stand by the country at all. I think it's a giant mess and I hardly support it at all. I mean I like the freedom, but it feels like that is being limited so much now, that i'm starting to lose faith in the USA
Ohh i see..
Of course I support my country. I do not support everything they do, especially actions of the government, but I am grateful for everything that this nation provides me. I feel safe, I have opportunities to fulfill my potential, I can enjoy myself, I have secure employment (thanks to unfair dismissal laws), I can go to the hospital for minimal charge (thanks to the government), I know I will not go hungry tonight. There are billions of people who are worse off than me for the pure reason that they were born into countries that did not offer the support and services that Australia has granted me.
I will be supporting Australia in the World Cup, as I do in every sporting event. It's just one of the small things I can do to show my support for everything my country means to me.
Pretty much, US isn't perfect but it sure beats Mexico :POf course I support my country. I do not support everything they do, especially actions of the government, but I am grateful for everything that this nation provides me. I feel safe, I have opportunities to fulfill my potential, I can enjoy myself, I have secure employment (thanks to unfair dismissal laws), I can go to the hospital for minimal charge (thanks to the government), I know I will not go hungry tonight. There are billions of people who are worse off than me for the pure reason that they were born into countries that did not offer the support and services that Australia has granted me.
I will be supporting Australia in the World Cup, as I do in every sporting event. It's just one of the small things I can do to show my support for everything my country means to me.
daqua_99
I find it so bizarre when people say they are proud of their nation because of the services and security the government provides. Essentially what you're saying is you like your government because it hasn't decided to steal all your money/property, or decided to imprison/kill you.
I mean the government is great, they haven't decided to throw us all into gulags. They allow us to acquire wealth personally instead of taking it all. What a wonderful system we have! :roll:
I find it so bizarre when people say they are proud of their nation because of the services and security the government provides. Essentially what you're saying is you like your government because it hasn't decided to steal all your money/property, or decided to imprison/kill you.
I mean the government is great, they haven't decided to throw us all into gulags. They allow us to acquire wealth personally instead of taking it all. What a wonderful system we have! :roll:
Rhazakna
That's not necessarily true.
The government isn't the big bad wolf that many people here think they are. Sure they are not perfect, they are far from it, but services they provide help strengthen the individual. Who subsidised the hospital cost when you were born? The government. Who gave financial support to parents/carers to look after you? The government. Who subsidised your education so you have a platform to fulfill your potential? The government. Who provides the basic minimum standards of employment? The government. Who subsidises the cost of your operation? The government.
We do not like our government because they don't "steal all your money/property", but we like them because of all the positive things they provide us. Think about it, if the government played no role in your life you would likely have not been as well off as you are now. Heck, you would have barely been able to afford getting through primary school.
Governments that stand and do nothing = bad. Governments that help to enhance the individual = good. That's why I am proud of Australia
I don't to want to say anything about my country in the world of soccer.I will give you hint a though.My country got its butt kicked by germany in the second last world cup.Germany made 8 goals and we got 0.conistantSaudi Arabia. Also a theocracy isn't something to boast about either.
[QUOTE="conistant"]I don't to want to say anything about my country in the world of soccer.I will give you hint a though.My country got its butt kicked by germany in the second last world cup.Germany made 8 goals and we got 0.Lucien-LachanceSaudi Arabia. Also a theocracy isn't something to boast about either. Yeah imaginary characters ruling countries FTL
I suppose I do. It's like you may live in a dump or trailer and even drive a jalopy, but you don't take it lightly when someone disrespects what is yours. Same with country. You may not care for the government but you won't appreciatesome foreigner criticizing your home.
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]
I find it so bizarre when people say they are proud of their nation because of the services and security the government provides. Essentially what you're saying is you like your government because it hasn't decided to steal all your money/property, or decided to imprison/kill you.
I mean the government is great, they haven't decided to throw us all into gulags. They allow us to acquire wealth personally instead of taking it all. What a wonderful system we have! :roll:
daqua_99
That's not necessarily true.
The government isn't the big bad wolf that many people here think they are. Sure they are not perfect, they are far from it, but services they provide help strengthen the individual. Who subsidised the hospital cost when you were born? The government. Who gave financial support to parents/carers to look after you? The government. Who subsidised your education so you have a platform to fulfill your potential? The government. Who provides the basic minimum standards of employment? The government. Who subsidises the cost of your operation? The government.
We do not like our government because they don't "steal all your money/property", but we like them because of all the positive things they provide us. Think about it, if the government played no role in your life you would likely have not been as well off as you are now. Heck, you would have barely been able to afford getting through primary school.
Governments that stand and do nothing = bad. Governments that help to enhance the individual = good. That's why I am proud of Australia
The "positive things" they provide you are entirely subjectively positive. It is absurd for you to assume that all you mentioned is objectively good. I would argue that cartellization of the medical industry has led to extremly expensive drugs and expensive health insurance that people use for anything and everything medical. I would argue the American public school system is awful, and filled with propaganda of all sorts. If the government played no role in my life I would be far better off as I would be able to live in a society where law emerged from the bottom up, instead of being enforced from a top-down central authority. Essentially what you're saying is that I should like all these services that the state takes money to fund, simply because they exist.
But this is all beside the point I was trying to make. Valuing the "freedom" your state gives you means that your particular state is unlike other states that are openly tyrannical to their own populace. This means that your state does not imprison or kill political dissidents and other state "enemies". You're essentially praising the government for not initiating force against you. Actually, it's not even that, as all governments enact force, that is the nature of the state. In reality what you're saying is that your state is less violent toward you than other states, therefore your state is good. Quite ridiculous, in my opinion.
Mainly yes... though I consider the U.S. mostly to be a corrupted capitalistic mess right now, I do understand that we as a country had to do what we had to do to get where we are. Give everyone a smile and a handshake, but take **** from no one.
I could care less if people hate my country. It's mainly just jealousy anyway... so yea... [insert haters gonna hate gif] .... just this time use a image of the crosses from all the fallen soldiers keeping our country from a restricted hell hole.
[QUOTE="conistant"]I don't to want to say anything about my country in the world of soccer.I will give you hint a though.My country got its butt kicked by germany in the second last world cup.Germany made 8 goals and we got 0.Lucien-LachanceSaudi Arabia. Also a theocracy isn't something to boast about either. Why do you have to bring religion into everything?
I'll address both separately. it's easier that way
The "positive things" they provide you are entirely subjectively positive. It is absurd for you to assume that all you mentioned is objectively good. I would argue that cartellization of the medical industry has led to extremly expensive drugs and expensive health insurance that people use for anything and everything medical. I would argue the American public school system is awful, and filled with propaganda of all sorts. If the government played no role in my life I would be far better off as I would be able to live in a society where law emerged from the bottom up, instead of being enforced from a top-down central authority. Essentially what you're saying is that I should like all these services that the state takes money to fund, simply because they exist.Rhazakna
I'll say this outright - I do not know how everything works in the US. I am Australian and I have a fair idea of how it works here and I'll explain the specifics of each thing here based on the Australian system.
Drug prices in Australia are relatively cheap compared to other countries. When it comes to prescription medication we have a thing called the Pharmaceuticals Benefit Scheme (PBS) which provides subsidised medication. Basically the PBS goes to the drug companies, buys the medication from them and sells it to consumers, through retail chemists, for $5.40 (for concession card holders). This provides cheap medication for consumers, and because the PBS represents a market of 22 million they get a 'bulk buy' discount. It is paid for out of the Medicare levy everyone pays (~1.5% of your income).
Medical insurance in Australia is again relatively cheap because of government incentives. The government gives rebates of up to 40% on insurance costs, plus reduces the Medicare levy by 1% if you obtain it (saving $6000 a year for the average person). I can get insurance for as little as $10 a week, not including all of these incentives.
The Australian education system is quite good. I found the course curriculum in my state (NSW) taught you from a very early age to 'have your own opinion, but find evidence to back it up'. In every course, whether it be maths, english, science, history or geography, you would always be asked to prove your answer. In the later years exams would always have questions where your opinion would be important, such as 'analyse the effectiveness of IMF involvement in the global economy'. You could either agree or disagree based on the evidence you obtained. Basically the whole English course from year 7 to year 12 was focused solely on this method.
I can give you examples of laws that do originate from the bottom. I'll give you Skye's Law and the ban on compulsory student unionism. Both were laws (or law changes) that were brought about through community movement and support. If the community wants something in law it is likely the government will do it as the parties chase support of voters.
But this is all beside the point I was trying to make. Valuing the "freedom" your state gives you means that your particular state is unlike other states that are openly tyrannical to their own populace. This means that your state does not imprison or kill political dissidents and other state "enemies". You're essentially praising the government for not initiating force against you. Actually, it's not even that, as all governments enact force, that is the nature of the state. In reality what you're saying is that your state is less violent toward you than other states, therefore your state is good. Quite ridiculous, in my opinion.
Rhazakna
I really don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Yes we value the "freedom" our state gives us, but we are proud of our country for much more than the freedom it gives us. Our country gives us more than just 'freedom', it gives us support, opportunity and protection, amongst other things. You are thinking that we like our state because it isn't hurting us, which it true, but we are proud of it because of what it gives back to us. You don't have to like them just because they exist, I don't like everything the government does just because they are doing it, but there are many activities and institutions within the government that are beneficial and for this I am thankful.
That's so true man. It's easy to take pride in your specific area or birthplace or where you grew up. Most of all we should take pride in our mother Earth and all people and cultures.I don't know...
I generally despise patriotism.
It's a round world last time i checked.
:P
Joshywaa
Often times I wonder what it would be like to have a unified Earth. Where capitalism, socialism, communism etc. doesn't exist. A new way of thinking. A new way of Government that is fair to all of Earth's children where our system is defined on a theory of 'finite resources' not 'infinite'.
I'll address both separately. it's easier that way
I'll say this outright - I do not know how everything works in the US. I am Australian and I have a fair idea of how it works here and I'll explain the specifics of each thing here based on the Australian system.
Drug prices in Australia are relatively cheap compared to other countries. When it comes to prescription medication we have a thing called the Pharmaceuticals Benefit Scheme (PBS) which provides subsidised medication. Basically the PBS goes to the drug companies, buys the medication from them and sells it to consumers, through retail chemists, for $5.40 (for concession card holders). This provides cheap medication for consumers, and because the PBS represents a market of 22 million they get a 'bulk buy' discount. It is paid for out of the Medicare levy everyone pays (~1.5% of your income).
Medical insurance in Australia is again relatively cheap because of government incentives. The government gives rebates of up to 40% on insurance costs, plus reduces the Medicare levy by 1% if you obtain it (saving $6000 a year for the average person). I can get insurance for as little as $10 a week, not including all of these incentives.
The Australian education system is quite good. I found the course curriculum in my state (NSW) taught you from a very early age to 'have your own opinion, but find evidence to back it up'. In every course, whether it be maths, english, science, history or geography, you would always be asked to prove your answer. In the later years exams would always have questions where your opinion would be important, such as 'analyse the effectiveness of IMF involvement in the global economy'. You could either agree or disagree based on the evidence you obtained. Basically the whole English course from year 7 to year 12 was focused solely on this method.
I can give you examples of laws that do originate from the bottom. I'll give you Skye's Law and the ban on compulsory student unionism. Both were laws (or law changes) that were brought about through community movement and support. If the community wants something in law it is likely the government will do it as the parties chase support of voters.
I really don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Yes we value the "freedom" our state gives us, but we are proud of our country for much more than the freedom it gives us. Our country gives us more than just 'freedom', it gives us support, opportunity and protection, amongst other things. You are thinking that we like our state because it isn't hurting us, which it true, but we are proud of it because of what it gives back to us. You don't have to like them just because they exist, I don't like everything the government does just because they are doing it, but there are many activities and institutions within the government that are beneficial and for this I am thankful.
daqua_99
The Australian healthcare system as we know it is relatively new. When the government takes an industry in this way, it takes some time for full effects to be known. Usually a generation, though sometimes a little shorter/longer depending on different factors. The damage that your AMA is causing will be seen in the near future. This is very similar to the situation in the United States when our AMA was first gaining power. The negative results of cartellization weren't felt right away.
That being said, in the rather limited ammount of research I've done on the Australian system isn't so good. For one, the prices of drugs are the same, the cost is just subsidized through taxation. Prices don't change by throwing tax dollars at them, it still costs the same to produce the drugs. I've read articles that talk about doctor shortages in rural areas, and a two tier medical system. This is allin the beggining stages of cartellization. This is a more extreme version of what happened to the United State's medical system. Watch it deteriorate over the next 10-20 years as the Australian Medical Association gains more lobbying power.
Ten dollars a week sounds good. Medical care in the US used to cost as low as a dollar a month for people who opted to use the fraternity system of healthcare. A system destroyed by the government, and our AMA. Keep in mind, that this was before taxes were taken to cartellize the medical industry.
I know nothing about the curriculum in Australian schools, so I won't comment on that. I will say that the schools in the US suck, and it's mostly due to things like the department of education and such.
Some law does get put into legislation because of grassroots activism, but no state law is emergent. All laws as we currently know them are enforced through a top down political system controlled by a monopoly (the state). As such emergent order is squashed, and what emergent order we do have is either violent due to being illegalized, or highly esoteric and unpopular.
The things they do are only beneficial because you have other, worse state systems to compare them to. There is no emergent system at this time for you to compare to your current system. You only say what the Aus state does is good because Australia is better than other states in some ways. Australia actually has more of a free market than the US. There's no reason to attribute the current good standard of living to the government. You could just as easily say that everything in youur country is good in spite of it, not because of it.
I have to leave now, but I am perfectly happy to continue this debate over PMs, though keep in mind my knowledge of the Australian system is limited.
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