Do you hunt or fish? EPA denies bid to ban lead in hunting ammo

WASHINGTON - The Environmental Protection Agency on Friday denied a petition by five environmental groups to ban lead in hunting ammunition, saying the issue is not within the agency's jurisdiction.

The EPA said it did not have the authority to enact the ban, aimed at protecting wildlife, under the Toxic Substances Control Act, as the groups had requested.

But the agency said it's still reviewing another part of the petition, to ban lead fishing sinkers.

"EPA is taking action on many fronts to address major sources of lead in our society such as eliminating childhood exposure to lead," Steve Owens, the agency's assistant administrator for chemical safety and pollution prevention said in a statement.

But he said the agency "was not and is not considering taking action on whether the lead content in hunting ammunition poses an undue threat to wildlife."

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I mentioned fishing because the EPA could decide to ban lead fishing sinkers, but leave ammo alone.

Thoughts?

oh no!!!!! we will have less animals to kill for fun if we cant use lead.

Hmm, Interesting.

I didn't even think that modern ammunition still used lead :/

I think it's a good idea to not use/ban lead sinkers and ammo.

I didn't even think that modern ammunition still used lead :/

I think it's a good idea to not use/ban lead sinkers and ammo.

IcyToasters

yeah seriously. im sure there are other metals that can kill critters without contaminating the biosphere. what drives me even more nuts though, is that some conservatives will just defend the EPA's decision simply in the name of "limited government".

Lead is the primary core material for a round. A round can be regular lead, FMJ (full metal jacket), which is lead covered in a harder material or other specialty rounds like explosive, hollow point or armor piercing. While some contain little to no lead, most include some percentage of lead.

The reason is because lead "mushrooms" or deforms into a "blooming flower" shape very well (it's not too soft, not too hard) intended to maximize physical area and thus, tissue trauma.

I think the real reason the EPA won't ban ammo is because of two things; firearm ammo really falls under the umbrella of the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco and also changing the core composition of ammo would send huge shockwaves of change through the gun enthusiest's community. Guns would fire differently, maybe to the point where most guns would have to be reverse-/re-engineered to fire properly. The resistance by the gun owners AND the friggin NRA would be enormous.

Many ammunition still uses lead, mainly due to the function that they are required to fulfill. In this case, hunting ammunition is intended to slay the prey without damaging the meat too much, or penetrating the creature out through the other side (to hit something else). Hunting ammunition tends to be hollow-points in this case, and they have to be made of poor metals (a type of soft metal) for this purpose - and unfortunately lead happens to be the cheapest (trading at less than US$ 1 per Imperial pound). Other poor metals are so much more expensive, such as bismuth, which is often used as a replacement for lead when material cost is not an issue (i.e. high-value products like cosmetics). Banning lead in ammo will cause rounds to shoot up in cost.

I do know that hunting licenses are issued by the state governments in the USA, but I can't seem to find any example of a hunting license in order to look at the details. As such, I do not know whether these licenses require hunters to reveal the number of bullets they used per season and how many shots went astray (which will, of course, pollute the environment that they end up getting stuck in).

Yet, I have watched and read documentaries on hunters' cultures. They do realize that bullets that stay in the environment WILL pollute it. The more responsible ones would actually keep count of how many rounds were used and attempt to retrieve them all - if they fail to make sure every round lands in the prey, which they would try to.

The problem is that just as there are responsible hunters, there are trigger-happy ones who are just out to abuse the Second Amendment of the USA Constitution. These are the ones that should be focused on, for the short term. For a permanent solution, bullet design is the only reliable one. Unfortunately, there has yet to be a suitable, economical non-toxic replacement for poor metals for hunting ammunition, or a new, cheap bullet design that can replace the hollow-point.

A blanket ban on lead in ammo won't solve this matter as any kind of bullet, regardless of the metal used, will pollute the environment that they end up landing in if they go off-course.

But lead in fishing sinkers? Yes, there should be no lead in it. These are reusable items, so cost should not be a big issue if a more expensive replacement for lead has to be used. (The sinker has to be heavy enough to improve casting distance and such, but even this can be provided by line design.)

Bambi still prefers that you don't use any ammunition of any kind at all though - for good reasons.

Fish would hate you for adding insult to injury - or more precisely, MORE injury - by using lead-weighted sinkers.

Many ammunition still uses lead, mainly due to the function that they are required to fulfill. In this case, hunting ammunition is intended to slay the prey without damaging the meat too much, or penetrating the creature out through the other side (to hit something else). Hunting ammunition tends to be hollow-points in this case, and they have to be made of poor metals (a type of soft metal) for this purpose - and unfortunately lead happens to be the cheapest (trading at less than US$ 1 per Imperial pound). Other poor metals are so much more expensive, such as bismuth, which is often used as a replacement for lead when material cost is not an issue (i.e. high-value products like cosmetics). Banning lead in ammo will cause rounds to shoot up in cost.

I do know that hunting licenses are issued by the state governments in the USA, but I can't seem to find any example of a hunting license in order to look at the details. As such, I do not know whether these licenses require hunters to reveal the number of bullets they used per season and how many shots went astray (which will, of course, pollute the environment that they end up getting stuck in).

Yet, I have watched and read documentaries on hunters' cultures. They do realize that bullets that stay in the environment WILL pollute it. The more responsible ones would actually keep count of how many rounds were used and attempt to retrieve them all - if they fail to make sure every round lands in the prey, which they would try to.

The problem is that just as there are responsible hunters, there are trigger-happy ones who are just out to abuse the Second Amendment of the USA Constitution. These are the ones that should be focused on, for the short term. For a permanent solution, bullet design is the only reliable one. Unfortunately, there has yet to be a suitable, economical non-toxic replacement for poor metals for hunting ammunition, or a new, cheap bullet design that can replace the hollow-point.

A blanket ban on lead in ammo won't solve this matter as any kind of bullet, regardless of the metal used, will pollute the environment that they end up landing in if they go off-course.

But lead in fishing sinkers? Yes, there should be no lead in it. These are reusable items, so cost should not be a big issue if a more expensive replacement for lead has to be used. (The sinker has to be heavy enough to improve casting distance and such, but even this can be provided by line design.)

Bambi still prefers that you don't use any ammunition of any kind at all though - for good reasons.

Fish would hate you for adding insult to injury - or more precisely, MORE injury - by using lead-weighted sinkers.

Gelugon_baat

Yeah that beats my post. Cheerio.

I fish but i don't hunt...no need to..and i don't see a problem with hunting as long as it's not purely for sport..

Many ammunition still uses lead, mainly due to the function that they are required to fulfill. In this case, hunting ammunition is intended to slay the prey without damaging the meat too much, or penetrating the creature out through the other side (to hit something else). Hunting ammunition tends to be hollow-points in this case, and they have to be made of poor metals (a type of soft metal) for this purpose - and unfortunately lead happens to be the cheapest (trading at less than US$ 1 per Imperial pound). Other poor metals are so much more expensive, such as bismuth, which is often used as a replacement for lead when material cost is not an issue (i.e. high-value products like cosmetics). Banning lead in ammo will cause rounds to shoot up in cost.

I do know that hunting licenses are issued by the state governments in the USA, but I can't seem to find any example of a hunting license in order to look at the details. As such, I do not know whether these licenses require hunters to reveal the number of bullets they used per season and how many shots went astray (which will, of course, pollute the environment that they end up getting stuck in).

Yet, I have watched and read documentaries on hunters' cultures. They do realize that bullets that stay in the environment WILL pollute it. The more responsible ones would actually keep count of how many rounds were used and attempt to retrieve them all - if they fail to make sure every round lands in the prey, which they would try to.

The problem is that just as there are responsible hunters, there are trigger-happy ones who are just out to abuse the Second Amendment of the USA Constitution. These are the ones that should be focused on, for the short term. For a permanent solution, bullet design is the only reliable one. Unfortunately, there has yet to be a suitable, economical non-toxic replacement for poor metals for hunting ammunition, or a new, cheap bullet design that can replace the hollow-point.

A blanket ban on lead in ammo won't solve this matter as any kind of bullet, regardless of the metal used, will pollute the environment that they end up landing in if they go off-course.

But lead in fishing sinkers? Yes, there should be no lead in it. These are reusable items, so cost should not be a big issue if a more expensive replacement for lead has to be used. (The sinker has to be heavy enough to improve casting distance and such, but even this can be provided by line design.)

Bambi still prefers that you don't use any ammunition of any kind at all though - for good reasons.

Fish would hate you for adding insult to injury - or more precisely, MORE injury - by using lead-weighted sinkers.

Gelugon_baat

I don't know if there's a metal comparable with lead for either ammo or fishing sinkers...it would be interesting to hear about valid replacement metals.

I don't hunt or fish, dead things gross me out. I think as soon as hunting/fishing becomes a threat to wildlife and their survival and natural balance, it should be banned.XilePrincess

We mess with natural balances all the time. We kill off predators because they are either dangerous to us or to things we grow or raise, like chickens or sheep. When we kill off natural predators the populations of the cute, furry, cuddley woodland creatures shoot up. If we didn't blow their cuddley brains out and eat their still-beating hearts then they would eat up all their resources and die off in the hundreds or thousands by starvation/cannabalism.

Hunting is usually as humane as killing can be, it helps restore the balance and it gives men a feeling of primitive accomplishment, so that your boyfriend can come back manlier/sexy to a woman who feins disgust but secretly loves how we are.

/macho bs

do you eat meat?PrimateJoe

We mess with natural balances all the time. We kill off predators because they are either dangerous to us or to things we grow or raise, like chickens or sheep. When we kill off natural predators the populations of the cute, furry, cuddley woodland creatures shoot up. If we didn't blow their cuddley brains out and eat their still-beating hearts then they would eat up all their resources and die off in the hundreds or thousands by starvation/cannabalism.

Hunting is usually as humane as killing can be, it helps restore the balance and it gives men a feeling of primitive accomplishment, so that your boyfriend can come back manlier/sexy to a woman who feins disgust but secretly loves how we are.

/macho bs

my_mortal_coil

I have some bronze sinkers (bullet shaped) that have to be slid on the line before a hook can be tied to it, but it still needs a piece of lead to keep it from dropping down to the hook once it is on the line. Unfortunately, it will be hard to come up with another malleable material like lead that can be used for split shot type sinkers. Now pyramid sinkers used for jigs can be made of other metals like bronze as they are connected right to the jig verses the line.

Still, if I am bottom fishing with plastic worms, I don't even use weights like I would with live bait.