Do you think affirmative action/racial preference should be banned?

I believe so. I think college/work places should choose people based on the actual work they did, not the color of their skin.

I believe so. I think college/work places should choose people based on the actual work they did, not the color of their skin.

waffle57

i thought we got over the color issue after martin luther king jr. :P

The most qualified person should get the job, regardless of skin color. End of story. Anything else is unfairly discriminatory.

Yes and no. Theoretically, it is 'racism,' yet the people it aims to help are much more racially oppressed than the people that it hurts that it's hard for me to condemn it. I'm a white male, by the way. I was also the only person to vote 'no.'swatsickle

and by voting no u are wrong. this girls boyfriend i knew tried getting a job as a fireman, hed taken all the courses and passed all the tests and then was rejected from a job because hes a white male and not asian like they were lookin for. its a complete joke, if i was in a burning building do u really i shud care that a certain race is the one saving me that is jst bs

their are very good and convincing arguements for both sides, so i'm going to say that my opinion isn't well formed enough to say yes or no. i also do not know what a minority / colored / exc person experiences so i dont have any experience to go off of.. it definately is a very difficult issue to take a stand on confidently if you are a person who thinks before opening your mouth.nimatoad2000

very good answer.

[QUOTE="swatsickle"]Yes and no. Theoretically, it is 'racism,' yet the people it aims to help are much more racially oppressed than the people that it hurts that it's hard for me to condemn it. I'm a white male, by the way. I was also the only person to vote 'no.'TheSpinLight

and by voting no u are wrong. this girls boyfriend i knew tried getting a job as a fireman, hed taken all the courses and passed all the tests and then was rejected from a job because hes a white male and not asian like they were lookin for. its a complete joke, if i was in a burning building do u really i shud care that a certain race is the one saving me that is jst bs

But was the reason they "had" to hire an Asian that time because they turned away all Asians until being forced to?

And its always "Someone I knew, knew somebody who...". It never is a direct contact. It likely never happened. The people doing the hiring wont go out and say "we need a woman/Asian/Latino/Black person this time".

If you really think that the centuries of damage that have been done to the African people as a result of slavery and institutionalized discrimination suddenly came to a screeching halt as soon as MLK gained national acceptance, or as soon as Obama was elected, then you really have no understanding of the issue. There is so much more to the issue than just slavery and being witheld from voting, such as sharecropping, Jim Crowe Laws, and redlining.

Yes. Some people have it hard but the most qualified person should always get the job. If anything having a hard life should be inspiration to be the absolute best regardless of race or class.

[QUOTE="swatsickle"]Yes and no. Theoretically, it is 'racism,' yet the people it aims to help are much more racially oppressed than the people that it hurts that it's hard for me to condemn it. I'm a white male, by the way. I was also the only person to vote 'no.'TheSpinLight

and by voting no u are wrong. this girls boyfriend i knew tried getting a job as a fireman, hed taken all the courses and passed all the tests and then was rejected from a job because hes a white male and not asian like they were lookin for. its a complete joke, if i was in a burning building do u really i shud care that a certain race is the one saving me that is jst bs

Yes. Some people have it hard but the most qualified person should always get the job. If anything having a hard life should be inspiration to be the absolute best regardless of race or class.

Tiefster

Most qualified from whose point of view? Hiring can be a largely subjective manner, and people who control hiring and/or college admission could easily discriminate were it not for affirmative action.

Also, that second part doesn't really hold up. Oh, sorry we forcibly relocated your ancestors from their native country, enslaved them, freed them to a climate where the only jobs they could get left them in extreme poverty, where they were subject to discrimination that went as far as lynchings, where they were segregated, and where they were systematically excluded from most public institutions, then once your people finally started to make enough money to become homeowners systematically robbed their homes of their value based solely on skin color, then relocated them from slums to projects, then scaled back the level of public services in project areas to the point where people don't even bother calling ambulences because they know they won't respond in time or calling police because they know they won't respond at all, then blamed crime rates on skin color. Sorry for all of that, but you know it makes you a better person, right?

I understand the argument against Affirmative Action, but I still think it's needed. I think minority's still have an unfair advantage in schools & the workforce in the US. It's not a huge one in most places, but it's still there, I see it daily. I've been knocked speechless by some things business owners have said to me about various minority's (I'm a white male) during regular business discussions.btaylor2404

Heck, a mayor in a suburb of Chicago just lost an election (thank God) because he an another official were recorded calling some delivery people the "N" word and that for the "trouble" they sent him through "they should have thrown in a watermelon".

Does anyone think HE appointed any blacks from the community into any positions, even if they were the most qualified?

I figure its a good chance he appointed a racist poice chief too, and that chief likely harrasses minorities, and does limits patrol in certain neighborhoods, for example.

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"]I understand the argument against Affirmative Action, but I still think it's needed. I think minority's still have an unfair advantage in schools & the workforce in the US. It's not a huge one in most places, but it's still there, I see it daily. I've been knocked speechless by some things business owners have said to me about various minority's (I'm a white male) during regular business discussions.TBoogy

Heck, a mayor in a suburb of Chicago just lost an election (thank God) because he an another official were recorded calling some delivery people the "N" word and that for the "trouble" they sent him through "they should have thrown in a watermelon".

I do my best to call em' like I see em. I truly have been appalled by some of my customers comments, and a few of these guys run public nationwide companies. That mess in Chicago, a fairly progressive city shows that it still goes on, imagine it in some places here in the south. Not all are bad, but some are.

Also, that second part doesn't really hold up. Oh, sorry we forcibly relocated your ancestors from their native country, enslaved them, freed them to a climate where the only jobs they could get left them in extreme poverty, where they were subject to discrimination that went as far as lynchings, where they were segregated, and where they were systematically excluded from most public institutions, then once your people finally started to make enough money to become homeowners systematically robbed their homes of their value based solely on skin color, then relocated them from slums to projects, then scaled back the level of public services in project areas to the point where people don't even bother calling ambulences because they know they won't respond in time or calling police because they know they won't respond at all, then blamed crime rates on skin color. Sorry for all of that, but you know it makes you a better person, right?

theone86

what are you a black apologist or something

I don't see black people running back to africa.

if you think blaming white people because of slaveryis going to help black people you are wrong on so many levels.

maybe you forgot they sold their own people to the slavers

I don't like racism of any kind, so clearly I feel very strongly against affirmative action .

After reading the post above mine I'd like to add that most who are for affirmative action are for it because of selfish reasons.

Nope, I like the idea of white people being deducted points for college applications for being white.

It's funny how something can look entirely different merely based on how it's worded, isn't it?

To some extent I don't mind if they make adjustments based on school attended or income, but having points deducted for not being a minority is bull. It also carries a totally b.s. implication that all black people have it harder than all white people.

This is a question for anyone. Two men apply for med school. One is obviously more qualified than the other (better grades, test scores, etc) Is there a logical reason why the lesser qualified man should be admited while the more qualified guy is rejected?

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]

Yes. Some people have it hard but the most qualified person should always get the job. If anything having a hard life should be inspiration to be the absolute best regardless of race or class.

theone86

Most qualified from whose point of view? Hiring can be a largely subjective manner, and people who control hiring and/or college admission could easily discriminate were it not for affirmative action.

Also, that second part doesn't really hold up. Oh, sorry we forcibly relocated your ancestors from their native country, enslaved them, freed them to a climate where the only jobs they could get left them in extreme poverty, where they were subject to discrimination that went as far as lynchings, where they were segregated, and where they were systematically excluded from most public institutions, then once your people finally started to make enough money to become homeowners systematically robbed their homes of their value based solely on skin color, then relocated them from slums to projects, then scaled back the level of public services in project areas to the point where people don't even bother calling ambulences because they know they won't respond in time or calling police because they know they won't respond at all, then blamed crime rates on skin color. Sorry for all of that, but you know it makes you a better person, right?

This is a question for anyone. Two men apply for med school. One is obviously more qualified than the other (better grades, test scores, etc) Is there a logical reason why the lesser qualified man should be admited while the more qualified guy is rejected?

Guybrush_3

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

This is a question for anyone. Two men apply for med school. One is obviously more qualified than the other (better grades, test scores, etc) Is there a logical reason why the lesser qualified man should be admited while the more qualified guy is rejected?

Toriko42

How do you not see anything wrong with punishing someone for something completely out of their control? The white person can't help what happened years and years ago. The black guy may have never even experienced any discrimination. I mean what if the white guy is a second generation American whose parents were born in Ireland?

[QUOTE="Toriko42"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

This is a question for anyone. Two men apply for med school. One is obviously more qualified than the other (better grades, test scores, etc) Is there a logical reason why the lesser qualified man should be admited while the more qualified guy is rejected?

Guybrush_3

How do you not see anything wrong with punishing someone for something completely out of their control? The white person can't help what happened years and years ago. The black guy may have never even experienced any discrimination.

I don't like racism of any kind, so clearly I feel very strongly against affirmative action .

After reading the post above mine I'd like to add that most who are for affirmative action are for it because of selfish reasons.

kingyotoX

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="Toriko42"] I don't think affirmative action is that extreme...It's not like they both are relatively equal, one may be weaker, one may be stronger. They both might excel at different things, who knows. In the end their difference in negligable. One is white, one is a minority, the minority gets it because of the discrimination they faced from white people all those years ago. I really don't see anything wrong with that. Toriko42

How do you not see anything wrong with punishing someone for something completely out of their control? The white person can't help what happened years and years ago. The black guy may have never even experienced any discrimination.

What if the black guy was from a well off family and the white guy was a second generation American who was brought up in a poor area and fought tooth and nail to get where he was? would you then give the job to the white person because he had it harder? or would you still give it to the black person because he has darker skin?

The most qualified person should get the job, regardless of skin color. End of story. Anything else is unfairly discriminatory.

Guybrush_3

Minorities are statistically poorer and have family issues due to the years of discrimination and oppression they've received. It's a lot harder for them to make it, immigrants have it really tough. Why not give them a little push to help them out? Toriko42

I thought up part of a lot of different response to this, but I'll go with this one for now:

Similar logic could be used to justify racial profiling by law enforcement.

----

What if the black guy was from a well off family and the white guy was a second generation American who was brought up in a poor area and fought tooth and nail to get where he was? would you then give the job to the white person because he had it harder? or would you still give it to the black person because he has darker skin?

Guybrush_3

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="Toriko42"] I don't think affirmative action is that extreme...It's not like they both are relatively equal, one may be weaker, one may be stronger. They both might excel at different things, who knows. In the end their difference in negligable. One is white, one is a minority, the minority gets it because of the discrimination they faced from white people all those years ago. I really don't see anything wrong with that. Toriko42

How do you not see anything wrong with punishing someone for something completely out of their control? The white person can't help what happened years and years ago. The black guy may have never even experienced any discrimination.

why should they get the job if their not qualified tho, i'm guessing ure okay if u have an unqualified black doctor than asl ong as he got the job over a white one

Good (and unanswerable-by-law) question! In the USA; An African American has become Commander In Chief. His people were formerly enslaved here. Certain laws had been made to prevent their oppression. If one of those oppressed managed to become President, then it stands to reason they are no longer able to claim oppression. But the hatred humans love to spit at other humans will always remain.

So no way that those rules will ever be dropped again. (You're welcome to try!). At best, they will be re-written for another group that begins to claim oppression.

The problem is in the nature of every Homo Sapiens(that means"human" BTW) regardless of race/creed/preference. We are nasty and predatory creatures.Fix our self-destructive nature, and oppresion might actually stop.

Or will it?

What we need to be wary of is anyone who wishes to force humans into changing by laws alone.Laws cannot alter default natures. A leech sucks blood. A hummingbird flies, a fish swims. Humans, regretably, hate all too easily. A policeman is not what's needed here, but a mental change, one by one, actively made in EACH single human mind by themself.

THAT is the only functional solution.

IMHO, anyway. Hate me all you want. Go ahead-we're good at that!

The thought process that lead to Affermative Action:

Hey lets give jobs to people based on their race rather than their qualifications.

Wait isn't that racial discrimination?

No we will call it "Affirmative Action" because its not racism if you are discriminating against those crackers.

Make perfect sense amirite?

The thought process that lead to Affermative Action:

Hey lets give jobs to people based on their race rather than their qualifications.

Wait isn't that racial discrimination?

No we will call it "Affirmative Action" because its not racism if you are discriminating against those crackers.

Make perfect sense amirite?

htekemerald

Absolutely, I never understood it in the first place. Sure there is racism out there, but you try and fight it...using another form of racism?

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

The thought process that lead to Affermative Action:

Hey lets give jobs to people based on their race rather than their qualifications.

Wait isn't that racial discrimination?

No we will call it "Affirmative Action" because its not racism if you are discriminating against those crackers.

Make perfect sense amirite?

swatsickle

Yes, all discrimination or defamation on a racial basis should be banned.

That includes affirmative action.

Affirmative action is also generally established for ethnic minorities, women, the physically disabled and those who served in the military so I'm gonna ahead and say its a necessary evil, why? cause it really sucks that people that are most qualified are not getting jobs, just because their employee have to fill some "quota" and the likes. but as of now, no one have come forward (it seems) with any other way to redress the disadvantages these groups suffer due to overt, institutional and involuntary discrimination.

no doubt it should be banned, it's still discrimination, just reversed.

The most qualified person should get the job, regardless of skin color. End of story. Anything else is unfairly discriminatory.

Guybrush_3

Affirmative action was started to stop discrimination in the workplace, but the quotas put in place kinda reversed the position. Companies shouldn't be forced to hire minorities, but the problem is if they weren't force to would they still hire them? I don't think diversity is forced on a company, but there are government bonuses for having a diverse workforce.