Do you think affirmative action/racial preference should be banned?

For the last time. It should be based off of income levels not if you're a minority

Epic__Lulz

[QUOTE="Epic__Lulz"]

For the last time. It should be based off of income levels not if you're a minority

Sajo7

This whole approach of helping people with things like affirmative action, regardless of whom it benefits (whether based upon ethnicity, wealth, or otherwise), is absurd. It serves to help only a very small minority, while ignoring the vast majority. Rather than sending a few more minority students to better colleges, the federal and state governments need to work on improving the overall quality of education. Although this would only be a start, this should begin with an increase in federal and state funding for public education.

[QUOTE="Epic__Lulz"]

For the last time. It should be based off of income levels not if you're a minority

Sajo7

The affirmative action now is racist. Oh look your poor white boy too bad but that black man can get it. If you open to everyone its less racist

Using race in any way is racism...so yes it should be banned and the merit system only used. If it's found that any particular group/groups of qualified individuals are turned away then the company should face legal issues.

Using race in any way is racism...so yes it should be banned and the merit system only used. If it's found that any particular group/groups of qualified individuals are turned away then the company should face legal issues.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="Epic__Lulz"]

For the last time. It should be based off of income levels not if you're a minority

chessmaster1989

This whole approach of helping people with things like affirmative action, regardless of whom it benefits (whether based upon ethnicity, wealth, or otherwise), is absurd. It serves to help only a very small minority, while ignoring the vast majority. Rather than sending a few more minority students to better colleges, the federal and state governments need to work on improving the overall quality of education. Although this would only be a start, this should begin with an increase in federal and state funding for public education.

[QUOTE="mont13"]

[QUOTE="Epic__Lulz"]

lol blacks sold blacks into slavery

mont13

Most blacks were kidnapped into slavery! All you guys whining about AA, do you know what "slavery" was. really? Do you know how different and brutal it was than any type of "slavery" before that? Do you know what the decades of racism that followed slavery did, really? Any effort tofix, repay, "make right" the continuing evils that slavery produced will result in innocnet people suffereing, but the attempt should be made! Suck it up and get over it! You are experiencing NOTHING compared to what was done and continues to be doneto minorities in this country.

Goggle a picture of Emmett Till's burned body , then tell me how much you are bothered by AA!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0OfuYBJa3Lg/Rg2RxDOJM1I/AAAAAAAAAfg/IUdC6kgisaM/s400/emmetttillcasket.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/national/28till.htmlThat's just one example of the hate. Please, AA is the least that should be done!

Your thoughts????

Nooooooo, you guys are commenting on AA in general. I would like someone to comment on the above. Actually look at the links, then comment. I get that AA seems or is actually unfair to some of you, but are you looking at the BIG picture of what it attempts to do, that is, address decades of the most VISCIOUS and EXTREME racism. In addressing it some innocent people will be negatively affected, but there is no perfect solution, and compared to what was done to a whole group of people do you really have anything to complain about?

[QUOTE="mont13"]

[QUOTE="mont13"]

Most blacks were kidnapped into slavery! All you guys whining about AA, do you know what "slavery" was. really? Do you know how different and brutal it was than any type of "slavery" before that? Do you know what the decades of racism that followed slavery did, really? Any effort tofix, repay, "make right" the continuing evils that slavery produced will result in innocnet people suffereing, but the attempt should be made! Suck it up and get over it! You are experiencing NOTHING compared to what was done and continues to be doneto minorities in this country.

Goggle a picture of Emmett Till's burned body , then tell me how much you are bothered by AA!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0OfuYBJa3Lg/Rg2RxDOJM1I/AAAAAAAAAfg/IUdC6kgisaM/s400/emmetttillcasket.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/national/28till.htmlThat's just one example of the hate. Please, AA is the least that should be done!

mont13

Your thoughts????

Nooooooo, you guys are commenting on AA in general. I would like someone to comment on the above. Actually look at the links, then comment. I get that AA seems or is actually unfair to some of you, but are you looking at the BIG picture of what it attempts to do, that is, address decades of the most VISCIOUS and EXTREME racism. In addressing it some innocent people will be negatively affected, but there is no perfect solution, and compared to what was done to a whole group of people do you really have anything to complain about?

Heck yes. Affirmative action makes it ten times harder for me to get into law school. I need to be shining roses out my hind end to get into Yale. Affirmative action allows other minorities to get a middling GPA/LSAT score and get in. Not coo.Vandalvideo

@ kingyotox,

Thanks again for your deep, thoughtful, intellectual contribution to this thread. Go back and read my previous reply to this silliness you have once again posted. Same answer.

Now, I thought this was a serious discussion on AA. Have I reached a "pre-school" discussion by mistake? Is anyone going to reply directly to my previous post or continue to maneuver around it??

Let's say you go to apply for entry into law school. Your application is denied in favor of a minority in the AA program. You leave the office upset, saying this is racist. Upon leaving you are slammed and knocked down with a high powered water hose, you are then beaten mercilessly with a club by policemen, you then have vicious dogs put upon you, someone in the crowd spits upon you while others call you derogatory names.

Beaten and bloodied you are hauled off to jail as if you had done something wrong, when all you wanted to do was go to law school. You come from a poor family that has faced many hardships. They are depending on you, the first to have a chance at higher education, to help pull the family from the depths of poverty and despair. You are beaten in jail then released 3 days later. An angry mob follows you home, captures you, beats you into unconsciousness, then hangs you from a tree til death. All the while the "justice" system is silent during your mistreatment and have even participated in it. Your city, state and local government are also silent concerning your plight. This mistreatment not only happens to you but, in varying degrees, to several of your family members and also to succeeding generations of your family for decades.

Your family fights hard throughout those decades to end the mistreatment and some even give their life for the cause. Finally, with the exception of a few instances here and there, the horrible mistreatment of your family ends. Some of your family members achieve a measure of success in spite of the decades of mistreatment, but many are in a vicious cycle of poverty and deprivation because of it.

Should the government, who did little to help, set up programs to now help your family recover for its decades of mistreatment?

There should at least be a affirmitive action based upon class standing.. All the rich kids shouldn't go to the Ivy league schools/top schools, while the majority of poor kids go to at best a community college... It is blantently obvious in this country when you are born ina low class family you have the worse of everything.. Especially when it comes to have the worse public schools.sSubZerOo

Exactly. We need to fix the problem at its root, by improving the overall quality of public education. Affirmative action, imho, is just a way of justifying ignoring the overarching problem.

I thought it was already banned

I thought it was already banned

Lief_Ericson

yes. it's racism. why would anybody want to get into college or something based on race instead of merit? you can't sugarcoat it, giving preference to one racial group IS racism.shoeman12

You live in a home passed down through your family by your Great, Great, Great Grandfather. It's a wonderful home, in fact the greatest ever built. Its foundation is strong and solid, it has many great and wonderful features that you and your family enjoy to this day. This house is so great that it even offers many benefits to those outside of your family whom you invite to stay and become a member of the family.. Neither you nor your guests had a hand in actually building or establishing the house whosebenefits you currently enjoy.

You do some research to find out how your beloved Great, Great, Great Grandfather obtained this great and beautiful home. You discover that he and many of his friends forced, under the threat of extreme violence, another man and his family to build the house. Those who resisted were beaten and tortured. Many died. This man and his family put in the hard labor, without pay, to make such a great house.. Your 3x Great Grandfather and his cohorts did unspeakable inhumane things to the poor and his family. This went on for hundreds of years leaving the poor family in a cycle of poverty and despair.

There was a governing "housing authority" that could have stepped in much sooner to attempt to put an end to this man's suffering but they did not for a long time. Finally the Housing Authority devises a plan called AA to attempt to help the poor family recover from decades of mistreatment and their blind eye to it. A side effect of this plan is that it hinders (not stops) some who had nothing to do with the poor family's initial mistreatment. On the other hand all have benefited from the labor of the family who helped this particular house become the greatest of all time.

Is this what you call racist?

[QUOTE="shoeman12"]yes. it's racism. why would anybody want to get into college or something based on race instead of merit? you can't sugarcoat it, giving preference to one racial group IS racism.mont13

You live in a home passed down through your family by your Great, Great, Great Grandfather. It's a wonderful home, in fact the greatest ever built. Its foundation is strong and solid, it has many great and wonderful features that you and your family enjoy to this day. This house is so great that it even offers many benefits to those outside of your family whom you invite to stay and become a member of the family.. Neither you nor your guests had a hand in actually building or establishing the house whosebenefits you currently enjoy.

You do some research to find out how your beloved Great, Great, Great Grandfather obtained this great and beautiful home. You discover that he and many of his friends forced, under the threat of extreme violence, another man and his family to build the house. Those who resisted were beaten and tortured. Many died. This man and his family put in the hard labor, without pay, to make such a great house.. Your 3x Great Grandfather and his cohorts did unspeakable inhumane things to the poor and his family. This went on for hundreds of years leaving the poor family in a cycle of poverty and despair.

There was a governing "housing authority" that could have stepped in much sooner to attempt to put an end to this man's suffering but they did not for a long time. Finally the Housing Authority devises a plan called AA to attempt to help the poor family recover from decades of mistreatment and their blind eye to it. A side effect of this plan is that it hinders (not stops) some who had nothing to do with the poor family's initial mistreatment. On the other hand all have benefited from the labor of the family who helped this particular house become the greatest of all time.

Is this what you call racist?

[QUOTE="mont13"]

[QUOTE="mont13"]

Most blacks were kidnapped into slavery! All you guys whining about AA, do you know what "slavery" was. really? Do you know how different and brutal it was than any type of "slavery" before that? Do you know what the decades of racism that followed slavery did, really? Any effort tofix, repay, "make right" the continuing evils that slavery produced will result in innocnet people suffereing, but the attempt should be made! Suck it up and get over it! You are experiencing NOTHING compared to what was done and continues to be doneto minorities in this country.

Goggle a picture of Emmett Till's burned body , then tell me how much you are bothered by AA!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0OfuYBJa3Lg/Rg2RxDOJM1I/AAAAAAAAAfg/IUdC6kgisaM/s400/emmetttillcasket.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/national/28till.htmlThat's just one example of the hate. Please, AA is the least that should be done!

mont13

Your thoughts????

Nooooooo, you guys are commenting on AA in general. I would like someone to comment on the above. Actually look at the links, then comment. I get that AA seems or is actually unfair to some of you, but are you looking at the BIG picture of what it attempts to do, that is, address decades of the most VISCIOUS and EXTREME racism. In addressing it some innocent people will be negatively affected, but there is no perfect solution, and compared to what was done to a whole group of people do you really have anything to complain about?

The fact that you think that it is OK to harm innocent people to give someone else something that they did not earn makes you a complete hypocrite. Two wrongs do not make a right. If you really want to make things better you would want to help the poor get a good fundamental education with no thought to race.

On another note, many africans were kidnapped into slavery by OTHER AFRICANS

[QUOTE="mont13"]

[QUOTE="shoeman12"]yes. it's racism. why would anybody want to get into college or something based on race instead of merit? you can't sugarcoat it, giving preference to one racial group IS racism.Yoshi25

You live in a home passed down through your family by your Great, Great, Great Grandfather. It's a wonderful home, in fact the greatest ever built. Its foundation is strong and solid, it has many great and wonderful features that you and your family enjoy to this day. This house is so great that it even offers many benefits to those outside of your family whom you invite to stay and become a member of the family.. Neither you nor your guests had a hand in actually building or establishing the house whosebenefits you currently enjoy.

You do some research to find out how your beloved Great, Great, Great Grandfather obtained this great and beautiful home. You discover that he and many of his friends forced, under the threat of extreme violence, another man and his family to build the house. Those who resisted were beaten and tortured. Many died. This man and his family put in the hard labor, without pay, to make such a great house.. Your 3x Great Grandfather and his cohorts did unspeakable inhumane things to the poor and his family. This went on for hundreds of years leaving the poor family in a cycle of poverty and despair.

There was a governing "housing authority" that could have stepped in much sooner to attempt to put an end to this man's suffering but they did not for a long time. Finally the Housing Authority devises a plan called AA to attempt to help the poor family recover from decades of mistreatment and their blind eye to it. A side effect of this plan is that it hinders (not stops) some who had nothing to do with the poor family's initial mistreatment. On the other hand all have benefited from the labor of the family who helped this particular house become the greatest of all time.

Is this what you call racist?

My post shows that I have looked at the entire topic, the big picture. Seems many of you are only looking at a short time period, your own, of how AA may negatively affect you. It's not like everything was peachy-keen for allin America since it's "founding", then Government decided for no reason to hamper you with the is AA thing, that would be racist.

You may correctly say that you had nothing to do with the past mistreatment of minorities, so why should you be "punished " by AA. But you also had nothing to do with the back breaking, gut wrenching free labor that helped make his country "great", yet you benefit fromand enjoy the results of that free labor. There is no perfect solution, in any case some will feel or actually be slighted, but aGROSS mis service was done to minorities in Americaand thus succeeding generations. AA is an attempt, however flawed, to help right that wrong, is this really "racist" or an imperfect attempt to do the right thing.

If they hire based on there race in any way then its racist.

I thought it was already banned

Lief_Ericson

It should be.

Let's say you go to apply for entry into law school. Your application is denied in favor of a minority in the AA program. You leave the office upset, saying this is racist. Upon leaving you are slammed and knocked down with a high powered water hose, you are then beaten mercilessly with a club by policemen, you then have vicious dogs put upon you, someone in the crowd spits upon you while others call you derogatory names.

Beaten and bloodied you are hauled off to jail as if you had done something wrong, when all you wanted to do was go to law school. You come from a poor family that has faced many hardships. They are depending on you, the first to have a chance at higher education, to help pull the family from the depths of poverty and despair. You are beaten in jail then released 3 days later. An angry mob follows you home, captures you, beats you into unconsciousness, then hangs you from a tree til death. All the while the "justice" system is silent during your mistreatment and have even participated in it. Your city, state and local government are also silent concerning your plight. This mistreatment not only happens to you but, in varying degrees, to several of your family members and also to succeeding generations of your family for decades.

Your family fights hard throughout those decades to end the mistreatment and some even give their life for the cause. Finally, with the exception of a few instances here and there, the horrible mistreatment of your family ends. Some of your family members achieve a measure of success in spite of the decades of mistreatment, but many are in a vicious cycle of poverty and deprivation because of it.

Should the government, who did little to help, set up programs to now help your family recover for its decades of mistreatment?

mont13

AA is still needed, IMO.

In perfect world it would not.

If they hire based on there race in any way then its racist.

WhenPicklezFly

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]There should at least be a affirmitive action based upon class standing.. All the rich kids shouldn't go to the Ivy league schools/top schools, while the majority of poor kids go to at best a community college... It is blantently obvious in this country when you are born ina low class family you have the worse of everything.. Especially when it comes to have the worse public schools.chessmaster1989

Exactly. We need to fix the problem at its root, by improving the overall quality of public education. Affirmative action, imho, is just a way of justifying ignoring the overarching problem.

Agreed as well. I'd like to see AA take this route from now on.

[QUOTE="mont13"]

[QUOTE="mont13"]

Your thoughts????

Guybrush_3

Nooooooo, you guys are commenting on AA in general. I would like someone to comment on the above. Actually look at the links, then comment. I get that AA seems or is actually unfair to some of you, but are you looking at the BIG picture of what it attempts to do, that is, address decades of the most VISCIOUS and EXTREME racism. In addressing it some innocent people will be negatively affected, but there is no perfect solution, and compared to what was done to a whole group of people do you really have anything to complain about?

The fact that you think that it is OK to harm innocent people to give someone else something that they did not earn makes you a complete hypocrite. Two wrongs do not make a right. If you really want to make things better you would want to help the poor get a good fundamental education with no thought to race.

On another note, many africans were kidnapped into slavery by OTHER AFRICANS

I'm the hypocrit? Innocent people were harmed decades ago, now there is an attempt to fix the problem and you have a problem with it. Ok, let's say you are prevented from getting a good job because of AA. Therefore you and generations after you are set back financially. I say we just wait a few hundred years, and after your family is wallowing in the mire of economic despair and sub-par education then we make an attempt to right your families wrong. Oh, but wait, that's racism. Never mind, sorry for your families inconvenience.

I don't believe it's ok to harm innocent people. But I do believe in trying to right a major historical wrong will result in innocent being "harmed". That's two different things. Yes the poor should get a good fundamental education irregardless of race. The problem is because of historical racism many minorities live in inner city slums, where shools are a joke and the government seems not to care. Our governments slow reaction to past racism helped to create this mess, they should help to solve the problem, that attempt may negatively affect you

"Blacks sold other Blacks into slavery" is over stated. Read Lerone Bennetts "Before the mayflower". Even so. the harsh and inhumane treatment of those slaves once on American soil isthe fault of America.