Do you think animal biological experiments should be banned?

[QUOTE="Makemap"][QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"]

[QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"]Yes,Animal testing is nothing but Torture dude.They have one video where there punching a puppy in the face at one of the labs.If they want to test on something,Test on someone in jail who has killed someone.Not an innocent animal that hasnt done anything wrong.AirGuitarist87

Er, I don't think that was part of the experiment.

If you played The Suffering, you know why it is a bad idea to test on people in jails (Uncontrollable jails).

The Suffering?

No The Suffering Video Game..

That game got so abandon because it don't have muiltiplayer.

Anyways it's free to the US now, go search it up.

They should do biological experiments on death row inmates.Thagypsy

Thats the first time I heard someone other than me say that...

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

[QUOTE="Thagypsy"]They should do biological experiments on death row inmates.Wolf-avatar

Thats the first time I heard someone other than me say that...

what about the people on death row who are innocent?

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Super_Socialist

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Wolf-avatar

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

animals are neither guilty or innocent and since animal testing obviously works to benefit humans we might as well do it on them. there are many people on death row who are innocent and since no human is better than one or another we have no right to do those things to other people, since we are better than other species of animals we can test them.

You can say goodbye to any major advancements in the medical field then......

How else do you expect them to conduct their experiments before they do so on humans?

trix5817

It would completely stop medical advancment? Ever hear of artificial tissue and cell cultures? Or you can always test on other people.

[QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Super_Socialist

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

animals are neither guilty or innocent and since animal testing obviously works to benefit humans we might as well do it on them. there are many people on death row who are innocent and since no human is better than one or another we have no right to do those things to other people, since we are better than other species of animals we can test them.

So your saying its right to torture animals for tooth paste?

(and yes,I heard they use animal testing for toothpaste and other cleaning products)

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Why not, when the end so obviously justfies the means?Makemap

Well only if the person accepts to do it, but forcing is a big NO!

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Wolf-avatar

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

animals are neither guilty or innocent and since animal testing obviously works to benefit humans we might as well do it on them. there are many people on death row who are innocent and since no human is better than one or another we have no right to do those things to other people, since we are better than other species of animals we can test them.

So your saying its right to torture animals for tooth paste?

(and yes,I heard they use animal testing for toothpaste and other cleaning products)

as long as its necessary, if they find a better solution then they can do that.

but going back to what you said earlier "animals arent human"

do you deny that diabetics benefit from animal testing? are youseriously trying to say that animal testing dosent help people?

[QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Super_Socialist

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

animals are neither guilty or innocent and since animal testing obviously works to benefit humans we might as well do it on them. there are many people on death row who are innocent and since no human is better than one or another we have no right to do those things to other people, since we are better than other species of animals we can test them.

So your saying its right to torture animals for tooth paste?

(and yes,I heard they use animal testing for toothpaste and other cleaning products)

as long as its necessary, if they find a better solution then they can do that.

but going back to what you said earlier "animals arent human"

do you deny that diabetics benefit from animal testing? are youseriously trying to say that animal testing dosent help people?

It dose,But I don't care.I think its wrong.If you want to start a stupid argument over this then go and start one..im going to win.

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Wolf-avatar

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

animals are neither guilty or innocent and since animal testing obviously works to benefit humans we might as well do it on them. there are many people on death row who are innocent and since no human is better than one or another we have no right to do those things to other people, since we are better than other species of animals we can test them.

So your saying its right to torture animals for tooth paste?

(and yes,I heard they use animal testing for toothpaste and other cleaning products)

as long as its necessary, if they find a better solution then they can do that.

but going back to what you said earlier "animals arent human"

do you deny that diabetics benefit from animal testing? are youseriously trying to say that animal testing dosent help people?

It dose,But I don't care.I think its wrong.If you want to start a stupid argument over this then go and start one..im going to win.

Since animal testing does benefit people, obviously we should keep it around.

[QUOTE="Thagypsy"]They should do biological experiments on death row inmates.Wolf-avatar

Thats the first time I heard someone other than me say that...

[QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Super_Socialist

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

animals are neither guilty or innocent and since animal testing obviously works to benefit humans we might as well do it on them. there are many people on death row who are innocent and since no human is better than one or another we have no right to do those things to other people, since we are better than other species of animals we can test them.

So your saying its right to torture animals for tooth paste?

(and yes,I heard they use animal testing for toothpaste and other cleaning products)

as long as its necessary, if they find a better solution then they can do that.

but going back to what you said earlier "animals arent human"

do you deny that diabetics benefit from animal testing? are youseriously trying to say that animal testing dosent help people?

It dose,But I don't care.I think its wrong.If you want to start a stupid argument over this then go and start one..im going to win.

Since animal testing does benefit people, obviously we should keep it around.

Why doesn't the ASPCA do anything about this?There testing on Dogs and Cats.There is a video where they sew a kittens eyes shut.

Why doesn't the ASPCA do anything about this?There testing on Dogs and Cats.There is a video where they sew a kittens eyes shut.

Wolf-avatar

they test on a lot of animals, depends on what theyre testing for.

[QUOTE="Thagypsy"]They should do biological experiments on death row inmates.Wolf-avatar

Thats the first time I heard someone other than me say that...

Just to interject: in science when testing something there needs to be a "significant result" which is so long as the p-value is smaller than a certain degree (usually 0.5 or 0.1) then the results are less likely going to be due to chance.

In order to get a good significant result you need a large sample. Think of how many people there are on death row. Now think of how many are willing to give consent to help cure diseases such as cancer etc. Any drugs released that have been tested on death row inmates are going to be inneffective or even dangerous to the general public.

[QUOTE="Thagypsy"]They should do biological experiments on death row inmates.Wolf-avatar

Thats the first time I heard someone other than me say that...

Why doesn't the ASPCA do anything about this?There testing on Dogs and Cats.There is a video where they sew a kittens eyes shut.

Wolf-avatar

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Wolf-avatar

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

animals are neither guilty or innocent and since animal testing obviously works to benefit humans we might as well do it on them. there are many people on death row who are innocent and since no human is better than one or another we have no right to do those things to other people, since we are better than other species of animals we can test them.

So your saying its right to torture animals for tooth paste?

(and yes,I heard they use animal testing for toothpaste and other cleaning products)

as long as its necessary, if they find a better solution then they can do that.

but going back to what you said earlier "animals arent human"

do you deny that diabetics benefit from animal testing? are youseriously trying to say that animal testing dosent help people?

It dose,But I don't care.I think its wrong.If you want to start a stupid argument over this then go and start one..im going to win.

Since animal testing does benefit people, obviously we should keep it around.

Why doesn't the ASPCA do anything about this?There testing on Dogs and Cats.There is a video where they sew a kittens eyes shut.

watch this to see what humans do to animals

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Wolf-avatar

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

Multiple problems with this:

1. Ethically this would never fly. There are multiple reasons why this would be the case. First is that humans have by the far the highest executive functioning of any animal species alive (and dead for that matter). In science we always test on the animal species that has the lowest EF of the choices that would still be viable for experimentation. So, for example, if you're going to study motor neurons chances are you're going to be testing on crayfish, not rats. If you just want to study something about neurons themselves without any care about behavioral consequences then you'll probably be using snails or worms, not monkeys. Another reason why testing on prisoners isn't ethical is because that already happened back in WWII with the Japanese and Nazi's experiments on human prisoners, and the scientific world (as well as the rest of the world) was so appalled that we created the first ethics code for science.

2. Using prisoners on death row isn't practically realistic. Scientific studies usually use somewhere in the area of 40-200 animals to get good numbers. There aren't enough prisoners on death row to do more than a dozen studies.

3. Humans are bad test subjects. The only reason we like using them is because the results of human testing have great generalizability (if a drug works on a group of random people and they don't have any ill effects then chances are it'll be the same for most people). Good test subjects are animals like rats and guinea pigs, animals that can breed through multiple generations quickly. This is important for two reasons. There's always an ample supply, and they're a lot cheaper than higher animals like chimps. The other reason is that doing longitudinal studies with an animal that only lives two years and yet produces mulitiple generations within that time span is a lot more practical and feasible than doing a longitudinal study with an animal that lives 75 years and takes 30 years to produce a single new generation.

Why doesn't the ASPCA do anything about this?There testing on Dogs and Cats.There is a video where they sew a kittens eyes shut.

Wolf-avatar

I've said this to you before, but that isn't part of the experiment. That's just someone being a douche.

No.

Anyone who does support stopping should stop using any vaccine ever created from it.

You won't last long.

Do you think animal (includes humans and aliens) biological experiments should be banned?

I truly hate seeing scientists do stuff to live humans, aliens (If you believe that), and animals...

If their dead then ok, but live is not (they have their right to live).

Makemap

How can you be so sure of yourself that live experiments aren't ok? Would an animal's right to live outweigh a human's right to live? I have type 1 diabetes, and Banting and Best doing biological experiments on dogs led to the development of insulin therapy to treat it. For humans, treatments for diseases can mean the difference between dying young and living a long and meaningful life. On the contrast, what do you propose is the alternative for animals? Release them from the labs, into the wild, where they'll either eat or be eaten? Would they really be that much better off in the wild than in a lab? And in any case, would any benefit to them be comparable to any benefit to humans that would come from experiments on them?

Are you a vegan, Makemap? If not, wouldn't it be a bit hypocritical of you to be against the biological experiments on animals have been shown to generate discoveries that end up saving lives? At the very most, eating some meat is healthier than eating none, but it probably doesn't make as much of a difference to life and death as discoveries from experiments on animals will. If you ARE a vegan, good for you, that at least shows consistency, but even then, I'd rather you focus more on challenging less necessary things like factory farming than more necessary things like animal research.

And an argument I've heard from animal rights people is that if it's necessary, do experiments on pedophiles instead. Well, first off, I'm not so sure I trust our society, especially in its present witch-hunt mentality towards sexual abuse, to be certain who is really a pedophile and who isn't. I do believe, though, that if a criminal would otherwise be executed, it would probably be more practical to do experiments on them instead, but I have to wonder why people who believe in animal rights don't seem to believe in criminals' rights; if the argument is that criminals have no rights because they infringe on others' rights, does this mean that animals who infringe on other animals' rights have no rights then? After all, if an animal has rights, what difference does it make whether these rights were infringed on by a human or by another animal?

Last but not least, Makemap, if you ended up with type 1 diabetes, would you use insulin to save your life?

If we should test on deathrow inmates, we should also test on the mentally retarded, the old, etc. They contribute nothing to society either. :roll:the_foreign_guy

Do whatever you like to animals so that humans may survive.

As much as I'd rather spend time with a smart dog than a dumb human, human life is simply more precious and should be preserved however possible.

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="Dalo12345"]

[QUOTE="Wolf-avatar"]Yes,Animal testing is nothing but Torture dude.They have one video where there punching a puppy in the face at one of the labs.If they want to test on something,Test on someone in jail who has killed someone.Not an innocent animal that hasnt done anything wrong.Wolf-avatar

Animals kill each other all the time... And even if it is for food, wouldn't it be ok then if I killed another person as long as I ate them and didn't waste it?

I don't think he understands that animal testing has saved millions upon millions of human lives....

Animal are not Humans,How can they test on an animal if there beating them in the face.Test on people in jail or something.

Human life isn't as valuble as the life of a rat. :|

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"]

no, we benefit too much from it.

i hate that guy from the ALF who thinks animal testing dosent work and dosent give a reason why. the sad thing is he talks at colleges

Wolf-avatar

Animals are not Humans,Why not test on people on death row,That would be way better than innocent animals.

So animals are "innocent" now? That's ridiculous. The wild is all about survival of the fittest, from the hyenas who eat their prey alive to the sharks that eat their young. Pets are an exception to this, but that might have something to do with how they're raised by human beings. The kinds of things people are on death row for are the kinds of things you see arguably worse of in the wild.

Okay...

So, to the basic premise...

No. Animal Testing has, and continues, to save countless lives. Theokhoth has posted a short list of stuff that's come.

Second... I'd like to say 'huh?' to the thing about testing on aliens, but I've already come to expect that from the TC.

No, the thing that threw me for a loop was bringing up 'The Suffering.'

Now THAT is truly bizarre. >_>

Also, testing on them after they're dead? That kinda defeats the purpose...

If we should test on deathrow inmates, we should also test on the mentally retarded, the old, etc. They contribute nothing to society either. :roll:the_foreign_guy

The difference between death row inmates and "the mentally retarded, the old, etc." is that according to our justice systems death row inmates have committed a crime for which the punishment would be execution, whereas mentally retarded people or the elderly, even if they don't contribute to society (which isn't necessarily true for the former anyway) aren't actively infringing on the rights of others; so comparing death row inmates to the mentally retarded or elderly is a weak analogy at best. I don't believe in the death penalty, but I think that if a criminal were to be executed otherwise, it would be more practical to do experiments on them instead of killing them.

To everyone that voted yes. Never use medicine again. Any of it. Because it was ALL made with the help of biological medicine, so if you ever take any medicine ever again, you are a hypocrite.\

To Wolf-Avatar: The examples that you are talking about are all considered criminal acts and are not condoned by the scientific community.