Do You Think G** people Can Go To Heaven ?

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]who or what has created this more logical heaven that you speak of:question:foxhound_fox

hmmm very logical indeed:P

[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

sorry, he then rose from the dead, and is now seated next to God in Heaven:roll:

zmbi_gmr

Like he never knew the outcome. Jesus just pulled a stunt on us making us believe he was actually dying, or that death at his status actualy means something. In short, he was just playing a big theatrical drama just to get to us. Next time he raises and die again, pretending that its actually a big deal, I will play him of a keyboard cat or something

Tricky fella that Jesus....

just wait till the anti-christ does the same thing:twisted:

I would keyboard cat him too

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]who or what has created this more logical heaven that you speak of:question:zmbi_gmr

hmmm very logical indeed:P

Well seeing as philosophy can exchange ideas through any medium be it novel or film or written in poo on a bathroom wall (laugh at Citizen Kane or 12 Angry Men why don't you) it is perfectly valid. And seeing as the Bible is about as credible as Bruce Almighty, the only difference being its age (pfft) and how people rate it, surely you could take your gospel from anywhere you see fit.

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
Morgan Freeman, from Bruce Almighty.

clembo1990

hmmm very logical indeed:P

Well seeing as philosophy can exchange ideas through any medium be it novel or film or written in poo on a bathroom wall (laugh at Citizen Kane or 12 Angry Men why don't you) it is perfectly valid.

Valid, but not really sound; philosophy isn't some "Oh, we can pull this **** out of our ass and it's just as good as anything else" field of relativism.

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

hmmm very logical indeed:P

Theokhoth

Well seeing as philosophy can exchange ideas through any medium be it novel or film or written in poo on a bathroom wall (laugh at Citizen Kane or 12 Angry Men why don't you) it is perfectly valid.

Valid, but not really sound; philosophy isn't some "Oh, we can pull this **** out of our ass and it's just as good as anything else" field of relativism.

I think they can. The bible DOES say that being gay is a sin, but so is pre marital sex, lying, stealing, cheating, along with plenty of other stuff I don't know about. We are humans with free will, we sin. I am probably alot more sinful than a gay Christian.

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

hmmm very logical indeed:P

Theokhoth

Well seeing as philosophy can exchange ideas through any medium be it novel or film or written in poo on a bathroom wall (laugh at Citizen Kane or 12 Angry Men why don't you) it is perfectly valid.

Valid, but not really sound; philosophy isn't some "Oh, we can pull this **** out of our ass and it's just as good as anything else" field of relativism.

:lol: sure, but its hardly defined just by literature. If it was it'd be a pretty shallow and pretentious subject... (thinks of every philosophy student he had come across) :o

I think they can. The bible DOES say that being gay is a sin, but so is pre marital sex, lying, stealing, cheating, along with plenty of other stuff I don't know about. We are humans with free will, we sin. I am probably alot more sinful than a gay Christian.

effena

That's true, but being a homosexual is not something that one can repent from. You can't turn your sexuality on and off like a switch.

[QUOTE="X4D"]

there is no heaven. Sorry, but theirs no evidence to prove it exists. When you die...you die.ieatnoobs18

Exactly. Humans need to believe that there is another life or something better after this life and that's because this life turns to be bad for many people or simply short (my mother's brother died from disease when he was 13 so this just demonstrates how short life can be for some people), full of sufferingor unfair. That's why we need to invent something better or "additional" to this life.

So what about fat, rich and happy people that believe in the afterlife?

Your explanation is very Freudian and I don't buy it.

I think they can. The bible DOES say that being gay is a sin, but so is pre marital sex, lying, stealing, cheating, along with plenty of other stuff I don't know about. We are humans with free will, we sin. I am probably alot more sinful than a gay Christian.

effena

[QUOTE="effena"]

I think they can. The bible DOES say that being gay is a sin, but so is pre marital sex, lying, stealing, cheating, along with plenty of other stuff I don't know about. We are humans with free will, we sin. I am probably alot more sinful than a gay Christian.

[QUOTE="effena"]

I think they can. The bible DOES say that being gay is a sin, but so is pre marital sex, lying, stealing, cheating, along with plenty of other stuff I don't know about. We are humans with free will, we sin. I am probably alot more sinful than a gay Christian.

I think they can. The bible DOES say that being gay is a sin, but so is pre marital sex, lying, stealing, cheating, along with plenty of other stuff I don't know about. We are humans with free will, we sin. I am probably alot more sinful than a gay Christian.effena

So you see how religious people use scare tactics to influence and control people? The best advice is to make (or at least try to) the most out of this life because there is probably no heaven or an afterlife.

Since the concept heaven is leagued to religion, we need to take The Bible as the proof. According to it, homosexuality is a mortal sin and homosexuals will die in hell, along with rapers, alcoholists, and assassins. If you die being homosexual, I guess you do go to heaven. Is there any other posibility? Anyone that knows about The Bible?

Since the concept heaven is leagued to religion, we need to take The Bible as the proof. According to it, homosexuality is a mortal sin and homosexuals will die in hell, along with rapers, alcoholists, and assassins. If you die being homosexual, I guess you do go to heaven. Is there any other posibility? Anyone that knows about The Bible?

Thiago26792

homosexuality is a sin in the big 3 religions. that isnt debatable.12Bullets

Since the concept heaven is leagued to religion, we need to take The Bible as the proof. According to it, homosexuality is a mortal sin and homosexuals will die in hell, along with rapers, alcoholists, and assassins. If you die being homosexual, I guess you do go to heaven. Is there any other posibility? Anyone that knows about The Bible?

Thiago26792

That's giving the bible way too much credit. There's just as much reason to consult the Vedas or the Koran or the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. None is more likely than the others to contain truth of heaven. (if any of them ever did)

we are allowed to do anything which the rules of this universe will allow

just like the animals

By your standards? As long as they say sorry first.

[QUOTE="Thiago26792"]

Since the concept heaven is leagued to religion, we need to take The Bible as the proof. According to it, homosexuality is a mortal sin and homosexuals will die in hell, along with rapers, alcoholists, and assassins. If you die being homosexual, I guess you do go to heaven. Is there any other posibility? Anyone that knows about The Bible?

dracula_16

That's giving the bible way too much credit. There's just as much reason to consult the Vedas or the Koran or theGuru Granth Sahib Ji. None is more likely than the other to contain truth of heaven. (if they ever did)

Ok, asuming that the TC is talking about the Christian heaven. You can change "The Bible" with any other religious book. But then again, he should have specified a bit more, since the conceptions vary with each religion >_>

[QUOTE="Thiago26792"]

Since the concept heaven is leagued to religion, we need to take The Bible as the proof. According to it, homosexuality is a mortal sin and homosexuals will die in hell, along with rapers, alcoholists, and assassins. If you die being homosexual, I guess you do go to heaven. Is there any other posibility? Anyone that knows about The Bible?

xaos

It is a religion based concept, referring to sins that make you go to hell, unless they are forgiven. According with the Bible description, it is a mortal sin.

Gotta point put that the TC didn't specify any religion, so how are we supposed to reach a conclusion?

we are allowed to do anything which the rules of this universe will allow

just like the animals

BobSacamento

That is the most disgusting thing i have ever heard.

Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

*thumbs up*

Yes I do....

Since the concept heaven is leagued to religion, we need to take The Bible as the proof. According to it, homosexuality is a mortal sin and homosexuals will die in hell, along with rapers, alcoholists, and assassins. If you die being homosexual, I guess you do go to heaven. Is there any other posibility? Anyone that knows about The Bible?

Thiago26792

Which verses in the Bible, exactly, say that all those people will go to hell?

I have a feeling I know which, but I figured I'd make sure we're on the same page.

Well, according to an outdated, hateful book, no, probably not. That being said, I believe that God truly loves all of us (and not the fake love that the Bible conveys), so I believe that we do go to heaven.

I pray a god would not be so hateful.

Well, according to an outdated, hateful book, no, probably not. That being said, I believe that God truly loves all of us (and not the fake love that the Bible conveys), so I believe that we do go to heaven.

Dark_Knight6

People are outdated and hateful. I don't believe for one second that the Bible, properly translated, says what those people think it says.

Well, according to an outdated, hateful book, no, probably not. That being said, I believe that God truly loves all of us (and not the fake love that the Bible conveys), so I believe that we do go to heaven.

Dark_Knight6

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

Well, according to an outdated, hateful book, no, probably not. That being said, I believe that God truly loves all of us (and not the fake love that the Bible conveys), so I believe that we do go to heaven.

GabuEx

People are outdated and hateful. I don't believe for one second that the Bible, properly translated, says what those people think it says.

You're probably right. But in it's current form, I see it as nothing more than an outdated and hateful book. It's also a dreadfully boring read. :P

Really, if you're having trouble sleeping at night, just read some of Leviticus. Stuff's like chloroform. :lol:

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

Well, according to an outdated, hateful book, no, probably not. That being said, I believe that God truly loves all of us (and not the fake love that the Bible conveys), so I believe that we do go to heaven.

LJS9502_basic

Says what?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

Well, according to an outdated, hateful book, no, probably not. That being said, I believe that God truly loves all of us (and not the fake love that the Bible conveys), so I believe that we do go to heaven.

Dark_Knight6

Says what?

You inferred the Bible was hateful as though it said that. The NT doesn't say that.

LJS9502_basic

What, it's stance on homosexuality? Romans 1:26-27 has a fun little bit on homosexuality.

You're probably right. But in it's current form, I see it as nothing more than an outdated and hateful book. It's also a dreadfully boring read. :P

Really, if you're having trouble sleeping at night, just read some of Leviticus. Stuff's like chloroform. :lol:

Dark_Knight6

I'm assuming you're referring to that old oft-quoted passage "you shall not lie with a man as with a woman: it is abomination" or however it exactly goes. Of course, nearby are verses saying not to eat shellfish, not to sow a field with two seeds... and I am sure most people do not go around yelling that God will damn anyone to hell who does that.

What one must keep in mind is the historical context of the start of the Old Testament. Here are the Israelites, who have just been released from captivity, and who now must find their way in the world. During that time, one of the most important things for the survival of a people was numbers - thus, the instructions in books like Leviticus make much more sense and seem much less distasteful if one recognizes that they are not what we are supposed to do today, but rather that they were intended to ensure the survival, security, and prosperity of the Israelites. To attempt to cherry-pick verses from Leviticus (as many sadly do) and go "see, gay people are bad!" is to staggeringly miss the whole point.

If one really reads through the Bible, and the New Testament in particular, one will find a much different message than those presented by hellfire and brimstone preachers one might find on street corners; it is ultimately a message overflowing with love and compassion for all mankind.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

You inferred the Bible was hateful as though it said that. The NT doesn't say that.

Dark_Knight6

What, it's stance on homosexuality? Romans 1:26-27 has a fun little bit on homosexuality.

Romans 1:26-27 is not discussing homosexuality any more than the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah were discussing homosexuality. Surely you would agree that insatiable lust is a bad thing. Their "perversion" is not homosexuality, but rather their idol worship.

[QUOTE="Thiago26792"]

Since the concept heaven is leagued to religion, we need to take The Bible as the proof. According to it, homosexuality is a mortal sin and homosexuals will die in hell, along with rapers, alcoholists, and assassins. If you die being homosexual, I guess you do go to heaven. Is there any other posibility? Anyone that knows about The Bible?

GabuEx

Which verses in the Bible, exactly, say that all those people will go to hell?

I have a feeling I know which, but I figured I'd make sure we're on the same page.

Corinthians 6:9 - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Timothy 1:8-11- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."

There you have.

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

You inferred the Bible was hateful as though it said that. The NT doesn't say that.

What, it's stance on homosexuality? Romans 1:26-27 has a fun little bit on homosexuality.

Romans 1:26-27 is not discussing homosexuality any more than the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah were discussing homosexuality. Surely you would agree that insatiable lust is a bad thing. Their "perversion" is not homosexuality, but rather their idol worship.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

You inferred the Bible was hateful as though it said that. The NT doesn't say that.

Dark_Knight6

What, it's stance on homosexuality? Romans 1:26-27 has a fun little bit on homosexuality.

And reading the notes it's tied immorality into idolitry.

Where is the edit tab?

if I was a god I wouldn't even bother making a heaven, as long as it exists as an idea during real life it serves its purpose

it's not like your going to die and be like "ohh man what the hell bummer"

CUZ YA DEAD!!

How can the mods always be right?ieatnoobs18

I dunno, they just are! :o

That being said, I really have nothing more to add, at this point. My knowledge of the Bible is much more limited than I would prefer it to be and I've clearly been bested. :x

[QUOTE="ieatnoobs18"]How can the mods always be right?Dark_Knight6

I dunno, they just are! :o

That being said, I really have nothing more to add, at this point. My knowledge of the Bible is much more limited than I would prefer it to be and I've clearly been bested. :x

[QUOTE="ieatnoobs18"]How can the mods always be right?Dark_Knight6

I dunno, they just are! :o

That being said, I really have nothing more to add, at this point. My knowledge of the Bible is much more limited than I would prefer it to be and I've clearly been bested. :x

ones knowledge of the bible cannot be limited enough :)

Corinthians 6:9 - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Timothy 1:8-11- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."

There you have.

Thiago26792

Ahh, yes, this fun stuff.

The Greek word translated there into "homosexual" is arsenokoites. This is a rather blunt and vulgar word, which is derived from conjoining two Greek words: arsen, meaning "man", and koite, meaning "bed". Thus, the literal translation of this word is "man-bedder". There's a problem, though: the form of the word arsen implies that the man is the one doing the action, not the one receiving the action - it is not referring to "one who beds men", but rather "a man who beds".

The word isn't referring to homosexuals at all: rather, it is most likely referring to the sex-crazed. This is precisely why I added the caveat of "properly translated".

Ahh, yes, this fun stuff.

The Greek word translated there into "homosexual" is arsenokoites. This is a rather blunt and vulgar word, which is derived from conjoining two Greek words: arsen, meaning "man", and koite, meaning "bed". Thus, the literal translation of this word is "man-bedder". There's a problem, though: the form of the word arsen implies that the man is the one doing the action, not the one receiving the action - it is not referring to "one who beds men", but rather "a man who beds".

The word isn't referring to homosexuals at all: rather, it is most likely referring to the sex-crazed. This is precisely why I added the caveat of "properly translated".

GabuEx

That being said, I really have nothing more to add, at this point. My knowledge of the Bible is much more limited than I would prefer it to be and I've clearly been bested. :x

Dark_Knight6

Well if you have any other concerns, I'd be happy to address them... I'm just here as a resource, not to "best" anyone.

[QUOTE="Thiago26792"]

Corinthians 6:9 - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Timothy 1:8-11- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."

There you have.

GabuEx

Ahh, yes, this fun stuff.

The Greek word translated there into "homosexual" is arsenokoites. This is a rather blunt and vulgar word, which is derived from conjoining two Greek words: arsen, meaning "man", and koite, meaning "bed". Thus, the literal translation of this word is "man-bedder". There's a problem, though: the form of the word arsen implies that the man is the one doing the action, not the one receiving the action - it is not referring to "one who beds men", but rather "a man who beds".

The word isn't referring to homosexuals at all: rather, it is most likely referring to the sex-crazed. This is precisely why I added the caveat of "properly translated".

Hmmm... if that is true, it might change many things...

Actually in my Bible is says "practicing homosexuals" which would be more in line with the fact that all sex outside of marriage was considered sinful.

LJS9502_basic

Ehh, that still doesn't sound like a very correct translation. There's nothing in the word whatsoever that implies homosexuality; for that reason, any translation that contains a direct reference to homosexuality is more along the lines of an interpretation rather than a bona fide translation.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Actually in my Bible is says "practicing homosexuals" which would be more in line with the fact that all sex outside of marriage was considered sinful.

GabuEx

Ehh, that still doesn't sound like a very correct translation. There's nothing in the word whatsoever that implies homosexuality; for that reason, any translation that contains a direct reference to homosexuality is more along the lines of an interpretation rather than a bona fide translation.