Do you think JFK was killed by 1 or 2 people?

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No I didn't get that from Wiki....I got it here..... And it states the opposite of your stance in this argument as to Oswald being capable.

Srawman? Now you're being dishonest. Here's your words....

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

The amount of shots required and the weapon used would have to mean he was the most awesome shooter....LJS9502_basic

He was. He scored a 212 in Sharpshooting which is 12 points above the minimum to qualify for sniper, and received top ranks in speed shooting as well.

There were only three shots fired in 7 seconds, at only 75 feet, a lot closer than people think, and he missed with his first shot. It could have easily been done by just one guy.Nuck81

Damn dude can't you even remember your own stance for 30 minutes or so?

I got to admit, there was always something fishy about the whole thing. Oswald was untrained and hit the MOVING president twice (even with trees obtructing his view even more). Even trained miltary find this ridiculously hard to pull off, and Oswald wasnt trained at all.

Not to mention, Oswald was assasinated right after he said he was a patsy. I believe someone wanted to shut him up.

reach3

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Nuck81"] Did you copy and paste that from Wikipedia? Again you're clinging to this strawman. Why are you so insecure that you have this desperation to feel that you are right? Fact is he was a good enough shooter to make the shots, since Kennedy is dead. He was with two bullets, with one fatal head shot that came from behind him.WhiteKnight77

There is one thing missing from that page, especially with the interviews of the men who had been on the firing line with Oswald and that is at what distances they were firing at. During Boot Camp, firing took place at the 200, 300 and 500 yard lines with the rapid fire being at the 200 and 300 yard lines. Oswald may have been a great shot at 200 yards, but terrible at 300 and 500 yards. With the range at Dealey Plaza being under 100 yards, you would have to be a really bad shot to miss a human sized target (the Marines use a human sized target at 500 yards with the rapid fire targets being from the chest up).

You're uneducated opinionNuck81

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]You're uneducated opinionMrPraline

Check your before you make claims. I said he was a good enough shooter to make the shots, you're exaggerations of my statements don't change this. Kennedy was killed by two shots, from behind, coming from a Rifle that was being held by Lee Harvey Oswald. You're uneducated opinion doesn't change these facts. You're insecurity will force you to continue digging yourself in a deeper hole of stupidity. You're dumbass ensures this pattern in every topic you post in.Nuck81

[QUOTE="reach3"]

I got to admit, there was always something fishy about the whole thing. Oswald was untrained and hit the MOVING president twice (even with trees obtructing his view even more). Even trained miltary find this ridiculously hard to pull off, and Oswald wasnt trained at all.

Not to mention, Oswald was assasinated right after he said he was a patsy. I believe someone wanted to shut him up.

Nengo_Flow

LBJ did it. And maybe Nixon. Oliver Stone says so.

[spoiler] Not really [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No I didn't get that from Wiki....I got it here..... And it states the opposite of your stance in this argument as to Oswald being capable.

LJS9502_basic

There is one thing missing from that page, especially with the interviews of the men who had been on the firing line with Oswald and that is at what distances they were firing at. During Boot Camp, firing took place at the 200, 300 and 500 yard lines with the rapid fire being at the 200 and 300 yard lines. Oswald may have been a great shot at 200 yards, but terrible at 300 and 500 yards. With the range at Dealey Plaza being under 100 yards, you would have to be a really bad shot to miss a human sized target (the Marines use a human sized target at 500 yards with the rapid fire targets being from the chest up).

That may be, but the car was not traveling left to right, but away from. That is not much harder than a stationary shot. With the limo traveling about 10MPH, that isn't very fast at all. Remember that there were Secret Service Agents that caught the car after the shots were fired before it sped off to the hospital.

Steak and eggs and eggs and steak. A hearty breakfast for the larger scale gentleman.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

There is one thing missing from that page, especially with the interviews of the men who had been on the firing line with Oswald and that is at what distances they were firing at. During Boot Camp, firing took place at the 200, 300 and 500 yard lines with the rapid fire being at the 200 and 300 yard lines. Oswald may have been a great shot at 200 yards, but terrible at 300 and 500 yards. With the range at Dealey Plaza being under 100 yards, you would have to be a really bad shot to miss a human sized target (the Marines use a human sized target at 500 yards with the rapid fire targets being from the chest up).

WhiteKnight77

That may be, but the car was not traveling left to right, but away from. That is not much harder than a stationary shot. With the limo traveling about 10MPH, that isn't very fast at all. Remember that there were Secret Service Agents that caught the car after the shots were fired before it sped off to the hospital.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However the targets were stationary....not moving which is harder still. And the weapon didn't allow for very fast shooting either.LJS9502_basic

That may be, but the car was not traveling left to right, but away from. That is not much harder than a stationary shot. With the limo traveling about 10MPH, that isn't very fast at all. Remember that there were Secret Service Agents that caught the car after the shots were fired before it sped off to the hospital.

You're kidding me? The shooter was a ex-Marine and it's difficult to shoot a moving target to begin with. As I'm aware, there were three shots with two successful shots on JFK - the back and the head. Also consider the speed of the vehicle and the distance from the apartment Oswald was in and the target.

This isn't to brag about Oswald's skill at shooting but to say he didn't display an talent or skill with a rifle is false.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

That may be, but the car was not traveling left to right, but away from. That is not much harder than a stationary shot. With the limo traveling about 10MPH, that isn't very fast at all. Remember that there were Secret Service Agents that caught the car after the shots were fired before it sped off to the hospital.

leviathan91

You're kidding me? The shooter was a ex-Marine and it's difficult to shoot a moving target to begin with. As I'm aware, there were three shots with two successful shots on JFK - the back and the head. Also consider the speed of the vehicle and the distance from the apartment Oswald was in and the target.

This isn't to brag about Oswald's skill at shooting but to say he didn't display an talent or skill with a rifle is false.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

That may be, but the car was not traveling left to right, but away from. That is not much harder than a stationary shot. With the limo traveling about 10MPH, that isn't very fast at all. Remember that there were Secret Service Agents that caught the car after the shots were fired before it sped off to the hospital.

leviathan91

You're kidding me? The shooter was a ex-Marine and it's difficult to shoot a moving target to begin with. As I'm aware, there were three shots with two successful shots on JFK - the back and the head. Also consider the speed of the vehicle and the distance from the apartment Oswald was in and the target.

This isn't to brag about Oswald's skill at shooting but to say he didn't display an talent or skill with a rifle is false.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Head shots are difficult in the best of scenarios.....add a moving vehicle and it gets more difficult. And this dude did not display talent with a weapon.LJS9502_basic

You're kidding me? The shooter was a ex-Marine and it's difficult to shoot a moving target to begin with. As I'm aware, there were three shots with two successful shots on JFK - the back and the head. Also consider the speed of the vehicle and the distance from the apartment Oswald was in and the target.

This isn't to brag about Oswald's skill at shooting but to say he didn't display an talent or skill with a rifle is false.

No shooting skill? The guy was an ex marine meaning he was trained to shoot. In fact, he first got sharpshooter (first rating) then barely got Marksman (third or last rating). Despite his performance drop, to say he wasn't skilled is, as I said before, false.

Try shooting a moving target from a distance and see how easy it is. It's not. It takes skill and Oswald had that skill even if he was a poor Marine.

I'll just leave this here.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Head shots are difficult in the best of scenarios.....add a moving vehicle and it gets more difficult. And this dude did not display talent with a weapon.LOXO7

You're kidding me? The shooter was a ex-Marine and it's difficult to shoot a moving target to begin with. As I'm aware, there were three shots with two successful shots on JFK - the back and the head. Also consider the speed of the vehicle and the distance from the apartment Oswald was in and the target.

This isn't to brag about Oswald's skill at shooting but to say he didn't display an talent or skill with a rifle is false.

Really? Never knew that.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="leviathan91"]

You're kidding me? The shooter was a ex-Marine and it's difficult to shoot a moving target to begin with. As I'm aware, there were three shots with two successful shots on JFK - the back and the head. Also consider the speed of the vehicle and the distance from the apartment Oswald was in and the target.

This isn't to brag about Oswald's skill at shooting but to say he didn't display an talent or skill with a rifle is false.

leviathan91

No shooting skill? The guy was an ex marine meaning he was trained to shoot. In fact, he first got sharpshooter (first rating) then barely got Marksman (third or last rating). Despite his performance drop, to say he wasn't skilled is, as I said before, false.

Try shooting a moving target from a distance and see how easy it is. It's not. It takes skill and Oswald had that skill even if he was a poor Marine.

220 feet with a bolt action riffle. 3 times in less than 12 seconds, through a tree. Not bad Oswald.LOXO7

Don't forget that the tree in question would have been a lot shorter 49 years ago.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] He had no shooting skill and the weapon he used doesn't lend itself to quick shots....LJS9502_basic

No shooting skill? The guy was an ex marine meaning he was trained to shoot. In fact, he first got sharpshooter (first rating) then barely got Marksman (third or last rating). Despite his performance drop, to say he wasn't skilled is, as I said before, false.

Try shooting a moving target from a distance and see how easy it is. It's not. It takes skill and Oswald had that skill even if he was a poor Marine.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="leviathan91"]

No shooting skill? The guy was an ex marine meaning he was trained to shoot. In fact, he first got sharpshooter (first rating) then barely got Marksman (third or last rating). Despite his performance drop, to say he wasn't skilled is, as I said before, false.

Try shooting a moving target from a distance and see how easy it is. It's not. It takes skill and Oswald had that skill even if he was a poor Marine.

LOXO7

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]220 feet with a bolt action riffle. 3 times in less than 12 seconds, through a tree. Not bad Oswald.WhiteKnight77

Don't forget that the tree in question would have been a lot shorter 49 years ago.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="leviathan91"]

No shooting skill? The guy was an ex marine meaning he was trained to shoot. In fact, he first got sharpshooter (first rating) then barely got Marksman (third or last rating). Despite his performance drop, to say he wasn't skilled is, as I said before, false.

Try shooting a moving target from a distance and see how easy it is. It's not. It takes skill and Oswald had that skill even if he was a poor Marine.

LOXO7

You do not just drop out of the Marine Corps or any other branch of the US military.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Oswald didn't really display much skill as a marine. Just being a marine doesn't mean one is "skilled". He barely qualified....and didn't really do great the other time either. You only have to qualify....not be exceptional.WhiteKnight77

You do not just drop out of the Marine Corps or any other branch of the US military.

I'm too lazy to look it up now but he was kicked out, most likely dishonorably discharged. The guy was a troublemaker and was obviously a sympathizer to the Soviet Union.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] I hear he dropped out or left with poor regards. In any case he was clearly a patsy.leviathan91

You do not just drop out of the Marine Corps or any other branch of the US military.

I'm too lazy to look it up now but he was kicked out, most likely dishonorably discharged. The guy was a troublemaker and was obviously a sympathizer to the Soviet Union.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] I hear he dropped out or left with poor regards. In any case he was clearly a patsy.leviathan91

You do not just drop out of the Marine Corps or any other branch of the US military.

I'm too lazy to look it up now but he was kicked out, most likely dishonorably discharged. The guy was a troublemaker and was obviously a sympathizer to the Soviet Union.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

You do not just drop out of the Marine Corps or any other branch of the US military.

LJS9502_basic

I'm too lazy to look it up now but he was kicked out, most likely dishonorably discharged. The guy was a troublemaker and was obviously a sympathizer to the Soviet Union.

Still, he wasn't kicked out due to those courts-martial, he was given a hardship discharge which was later changed to undesirable when he told US officals about his plan to tell the Soviets about what he did while in the Marines.

Oh, Officer Tippit was shot with a revolver, not a rifle so calibers would be different.

He was killed by a lot more than 1 or 2 people. He was killed by a whole organization of people. Yes, it is nearly impossible for him to have made the shot from where he is said to have done so. Anyone who denies this doesn't know crap about shooting.

[QUOTE="reach3"]

I got to admit, there was always something fishy about the whole thing. Oswald was untrained and hit the MOVING president twice (even with trees obtructing his view even more). Even trained miltary find this ridiculously hard to pull off, and Oswald wasnt trained at all.

Not to mention, Oswald was assasinated right after he said he was a patsy. I believe someone wanted to shut him up.

Nengo_Flow

"Top notch?" No, he wasn't. Where did you get that idea? He made sharpshooter (middle rank) by 2 points during his first qualification, and barely qualified at all in his 2nd go-around. He wasn't a particularly good shot.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Head shots are difficult in the best of scenarios.....add a moving vehicle and it gets more difficult. And this dude did not display talent with a weapon.LJS9502_basic

You're kidding me? The shooter was a ex-Marine and it's difficult to shoot a moving target to begin with. As I'm aware, there were three shots with two successful shots on JFK - the back and the head. Also consider the speed of the vehicle and the distance from the apartment Oswald was in and the target.

This isn't to brag about Oswald's skill at shooting but to say he didn't display an talent or skill with a rifle is false.

This is the part that people don't seem to understand. Supposedly Oswald used a. Italian Carcano M91/38 bolt-action to kill JFK. That's not a good weapon to get off shots quickly.

He was killed by a lot more than 1 or 2 people. He was killed by a whole organization of people. Yes, it is nearly impossible for him to have made the shot from where he is said to have done so. Anyone who denies this doesn't know crap about shooting.

hartsickdiscipl

Explain the three shell casings found near the window that were heard to hit the floor by workers one floor below. I am a ex-Marine and have been shooting for 39 years.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

He was killed by a lot more than 1 or 2 people. He was killed by a whole organization of people. Yes, it is nearly impossible for him to have made the shot from where he is said to have done so. Anyone who denies this doesn't know crap about shooting.

WhiteKnight77

Explain the three shell casings found near the window that were heard to hit the floor by workers one floor below. I am a ex-Marine and have been shooting for 39 years.

Shell casings can be put there by anyone, anytime. If someone standing a floor below someone shooting a rifle tried to tell me that they heard 3 distinct empty shell casings hit the floor in less than 12 seconds, I'd call them a liar. What were the floors made of, plywood?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="leviathan91"]

I'm too lazy to look it up now but he was kicked out, most likely dishonorably discharged. The guy was a troublemaker and was obviously a sympathizer to the Soviet Union.

WhiteKnight77

Still, he wasn't kicked out due to those courts-martial, he was given a hardship discharge which was later changed to undesirable when he told US officals about his plan to tell the Soviets about what he did while in the Marines.

Oh, Officer Tippit was shot with a revolver, not a rifle so calibers would be different.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

He was killed by a lot more than 1 or 2 people. He was killed by a whole organization of people. Yes, it is nearly impossible for him to have made the shot from where he is said to have done so. Anyone who denies this doesn't know crap about shooting.

hartsickdiscipl

Explain the three shell casings found near the window that were heard to hit the floor by workers one floor below. I am a ex-Marine and have been shooting for 39 years.

Shell casings can be put there by anyone, anytime. If someone standing a floor below someone shooting a rifle tried to tell me that they heard 3 distinct empty shell casings hit the floor in less than 12 seconds, I'd call them a liar. What were the floors made of, plywood?

Shell casings with Oswald's fingerprints on them? Get real. One thing the Marines have shooters do is shoot 10 rounds in less than a minute. I could certainly squeeze off 3 shots within 8 seconds if I wanted and it was show on the Discovery Channel several years ago that the rifle used buy Oswald could be fired 3 times in under 8 seconds. The Crimes of the Century: JFK Recreating Oswald also talks about how Oswald could make the shot including the fact that Elm St. has a declination of 3.9 degrees downwhill from the Texas Book Depository which means that at the angle Oswald was shooting at, Kennedy was a stationary target.

Also, without any damage to the left side of Kennedy's skull and the fact that Jackie Kennedy was not killed kills any thought that there was a shooter on the grassy knoll as any shot from there, on the right side of Kennedy would certainly have damaged the left side of his skull and splattered Jackie with his brain and blood or killed her too.

Was Oswald alone behind killing Kennedy? Hard to say as he went to his grave with that secret when Jack Ruby shot him days later.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

Explain the three shell casings found near the window that were heard to hit the floor by workers one floor below. I am a ex-Marine and have been shooting for 39 years.

WhiteKnight77

Shell casings can be put there by anyone, anytime. If someone standing a floor below someone shooting a rifle tried to tell me that they heard 3 distinct empty shell casings hit the floor in less than 12 seconds, I'd call them a liar. What were the floors made of, plywood?

Shell casings with Oswald's fingerprints on them? Get real. One thing the Marines have shooters do is shoot 10 rounds in less than a minute. I could certainly squeeze off 3 shots within 8 seconds if I wanted and it was show on the Discovery Channel several years ago that the rifle used buy Oswald could be fired 3 times in under 8 seconds. The Crimes of the Century: JFK Recreating Oswald also talks about how Oswald could make the shot including the fact that Elm St. has a declination of 3.9 degrees downwhill from the Texas Book Depository which means that at the angle Oswald was shooting at, Kennedy was a stationary target.

Also, without any damage to the left side of Kennedy's skull and the fact that Jackie Kennedy was not killed kills any thought that there was a shooter on the grassy knoll as any shot from there, on the right side of Kennedy would certainly have damaged the left side of his skull and splattered Jackie with his brain and blood or killed her too.

Was Oswald alone behind killing Kennedy? Hard to say as he went to his grave with that secret when Jack Ruby shot him days later.

That puts the car traveling right to left meaning that Oswald would have to lead his target making it harder to hit and/or, kill Jackie Kennedy first as she would then be in the way. That can be seen in the pic I posted with the distance shown and the angle of Oswald's shot down Elm St. One other thing to think about is that being behind the target, everyone is watching Kennedy drive away from instead of towards, which mean people are not looking at the building where Oswald is at. There is one film that has a figure standing at the 6th floor window and stops just before the shots are fired.

That puts the car traveling right to left meaning that Oswald would have to lead his target making it harder to hit and/or, kill Jackie Kennedy first as she would then be in the way. That can be seen in the pic I posted with the distance shown and the angle of Oswald's shot down Elm St. One other thing to think about is that being behind the target, everyone is watching Kennedy drive away from instead of towards, which mean people are not looking at the building where Oswald is at. There is one film that has a figure standing at the 6th floor window and stops just before the shots are fired.

WhiteKnight77

You failed to mention the massive tree in the way.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

That puts the car traveling right to left meaning that Oswald would have to lead his target making it harder to hit and/or, kill Jackie Kennedy first as she would then be in the way. That can be seen in the pic I posted with the distance shown and the angle of Oswald's shot down Elm St. One other thing to think about is that being behind the target, everyone is watching Kennedy drive away from instead of towards, which mean people are not looking at the building where Oswald is at. There is one film that has a figure standing at the 6th floor window and stops just before the shots are fired.

hartsickdiscipl

You failed to mention the massive tree in the way.

Which tree? The one outside of the depository or the one in the middle of the island of the plaza. The one on the plaza would be the one to be concerned with if shooting from the building on Houston St. as it would be in the way compared to the one next to the depository. The trees were also shorter some 39 years ago too. The one next to the depository would not be an issue.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

That puts the car traveling right to left meaning that Oswald would have to lead his target making it harder to hit and/or, kill Jackie Kennedy first as she would then be in the way. That can be seen in the pic I posted with the distance shown and the angle of Oswald's shot down Elm St. One other thing to think about is that being behind the target, everyone is watching Kennedy drive away from instead of towards, which mean people are not looking at the building where Oswald is at. There is one film that has a figure standing at the 6th floor window and stops just before the shots are fired.

WhiteKnight77

You failed to mention the massive tree in the way.

Which tree? The one outside of the depository or the one in the middle of the island of the plaza. The one on the plaza would be the one to be concerned with if shooting from the building on Houston St. as it would be in the way compared to the one next to the depository. The trees were also shorter some 39 years ago too. The one next to the depository would not be an issue.

How do you know that?

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

You failed to mention the massive tree in the way.

hartsickdiscipl

Which tree? The one outside of the depository or the one in the middle of the island of the plaza. The one on the plaza would be the one to be concerned with if shooting from the building on Houston St. as it would be in the way compared to the one next to the depository. The trees were also shorter some 39 years ago too. The one next to the depository would not be an issue.

How do you know that?

Look at the picture I posted earlier with the line showing the distance and then look at this picture. Remember that the trees were not that large then and still are not that large now.

Then:

Now:

Oh, at the time the TSBD had a wood floor and that is how the shell casings were heard hitting the floor. The circled windows are where Oswald took the shots from (A) and where those that were in the building could hear the shots and shell casings hitting the floor were (B).

Floor and Casings (I circled the casings):