The latter is a lot more probable :PYes. Or we will completely wipe our selves out before we get to that stage in our species.
Pikdum
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The latter is a lot more probable :PYes. Or we will completely wipe our selves out before we get to that stage in our species.
Pikdum
I don't understand this. Why are extinction and Star Trek style technology the only two possibilities? After all, for the VAST majority of the time that humans have been on Earth, we haven't been extinct. But we certainly weren't flying around in spaceships either.Yes. Or we will completely wipe our selves out before we get to that stage in our species.
Pikdum
[QUOTE="Pikdum"]I don't understand this. Why are extinction and Star Trek style technology the only two possibilities? After all, for the VAST majority of the time that humans have been on Earth, we haven't been extinct. But we certainly weren't flying around in spaceships either. Were talking about the future not the present... Obviously if we don't control birth rates and keep cutting down forests we're going to be extinct in a century or so.Yes. Or we will completely wipe our selves out before we get to that stage in our species.
MrGeezer
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Pikdum"]I don't understand this. Why are extinction and Star Trek style technology the only two possibilities? After all, for the VAST majority of the time that humans have been on Earth, we haven't been extinct. But we certainly weren't flying around in spaceships either. Were talking about the future not the present... Obviously if we don't control birth rates and keep cutting down forests we're going to be extinct in a century or so. Thats 100 years..Only an ION cannon would ensure our extinction in 100 years or less :PYes. Or we will completely wipe our selves out before we get to that stage in our species.
parkurtommo
My guess probably in about 400-500 years. In our lifetime probably man will walk the surface of mars.Celifrog
Err, we are a lot closer to being able to travel to Mars now than we were to travel to the moon in 1969. You're average cell phone has more computer power than all of Nasa back then lol. Technology wise there really isn't anything that is obstructing us. Politically and economically wise, there is.
With our current ships velocity we can get to Mars in 6 months. Which isn't bad all things considered. There are some actually very interesting designs for a nuclear powered rocket that would use condensed explosions to generate thrust. A very considerable amount at that, its estimated that we could get to Mars in about a month with it. I'm guessing that particular design is somewhere 40-60 years ahead of us though.
But really is we wanted to, we could really go to Mars now. It just requires a large amount of planning, funding and support.
Does anyone belive or think Warp travel could or will be real. I personally belive Humanity will somehow discover a form of Warp travel in the future and I think for our race to survive we need to expand into the stars.
I think that the answer is almost definitely a no. It's because humans cannot live in space for long periods of time. So space is pretty much useless to humans.
And even if one day humans will have the technology to make it happen, I will not be alive to experience this and the dust from my bones will be long gone.
I'm going to be optimistic and say yes, one day it will happen and I do believe our species is going to last quite a long time before we ever wipe ourselves out or get wiped out. If by chance we do one day make this planet uninhabitable it won't matter because by then we'll already have space colonies, that being said I don't believe that will ever happen. Not many people even give us enough credit for lasting this long and I believe to many people underestimate how strong the survival of this species is. We've gotten this far, what's stopping us now?
It'll probably be another thousand or so years before man leaves our solar system but before that happens we'll more than likely already have colonies on the moon and mars along with other planets/moons in our solar system. By the time we leave our solar system we'll have a new energy source and advanced space travel will be a large reality.
Absolutely. I think given enough time, a lot of science fiction with regards to space travel will become reality. Mostly just on faith. I think we'll find ways. DivergeUnifyI think given time, we will blow ourselves up.
[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="TDSE"]Why would you assume he was asking that? I mean why would anyone who doesn't know about special relativity even have such a concept in their mind? The fact that he seemed to think one can meaningfully talk about stuff being stationary without providing a reference frame doesn't exactly support your inference.TDSEFor the same reason you assumed that people who presumably know nothing about SR/GR would understand that travel forward in time is ubiquitous, and only the reverse is expressly forbidden, or that you meant time dilation relative to your origin point, etc. What can I say, you seem as though you like precision, but without offering it yourself. I generally try to not make the same mistakes I'm chewing someone else out for, so maybe it's just a matter of taste? I also enjoy points of reference, and saying, "far into the future" without discussing the mechanism or in relation to a point in time is both lacking in a frame of reference, AND generally uninformative unless you DO know about time dilation a la SR/GR. Somehow I doubt that most people would consider a rate of one second per second to constitute time travel. Coincidentally I recall watching a program by Stephen Hawking aimed at a lay-audience in which he made a similar point to me and didn't clarify that the travel into the future is as measured in the reference frames of earth/your destination. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. You may not consider that, but in fact it's just what it is. There's a reason why motion is described in a 4-vector, not 3-vector. You should get your physics from a source that isn't a television show before you start to demand things of others with such exasperation.
Absolutely. I think given enough time, a lot of science fiction with regards to space travel will become reality. Mostly just on faith. I think we'll find ways. DivergeUnify
took the words out of my mouth.
hoping for star-trek, but will settle for star-gate :)
They will eventually find means to travel rapidly through space, by some inter-dimensional jump or something....or maybe something like warp drive.dackchaar
But how do you know that's even possible?
Living in space for very long periods of time is impossible according to our current knowledge. Because humans need oxygen, water, food and medicine to be able to live. These things are not available in space in very large quantities.
If the human race continues to progress and develop technology then I think we could leave the solar system. I say we, but I doubt I'll be around when and if humans succeed. However, realistically I don't think we will ever go outside the solar system because we will destroy ourselves before we do. Too many people on the planet and eventually wars and disease etc. will just wipe everyone out. I honestly can't see mankind lasting another 1000 years.
Absolutely. I think given enough time, a lot of science fiction with regards to space travel will become reality. Mostly just on faith. I think we'll find ways. DivergeUnifyPretty much. As long as humanity doesn't wipe itself out, we'll eventually find a way to do such things.
[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="TDSE"]Somehow I doubt that most people would consider a rate of one second per second to constitute time travel. Coincidentally I recall watching a program by Stephen Hawking aimed at a lay-audience in which he made a similar point to me and didn't clarify that the travel into the future is as measured in the reference frames of earth/your destination. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.TDSEYou may not consider that, but in fact it's just what it is. There's a reason why motion is described in a 4-vector, not 3-vector. You should get your physics from a source that isn't a television show before you start to demand things of others with such exasperation.What do you mean 'in fact it's just what it is'? Whether it is or not depends entirely upon how you want to define time travel. It's just semantics. Oh, and the TV show is pretty much incidental - my 'source' is the fact that I'm doing a master's in physics. ****. ahem, fix that before you get modded ;)
[QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="TDSE"]What do you mean 'in fact it's just what it is'? Whether it is or not depends entirely upon how you want to define time travel. It's just semantics. Oh, and the TV show is pretty much incidental - my 'source' is the fact that I'm doing a master's in physics. ****.TDSEahem, fix that before you get modded ;)No. Well then, soon you will have a warning in your inbox. You can still change it man.
With the right technology, I'm sure it'll happen but we will all be long dead before we see that day.
[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="TDSE"]Somehow I doubt that most people would consider a rate of one second per second to constitute time travel. Coincidentally I recall watching a program by Stephen Hawking aimed at a lay-audience in which he made a similar point to me and didn't clarify that the travel into the future is as measured in the reference frames of earth/your destination. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.TDSEYou may not consider that, but in fact it's just what it is. There's a reason why motion is described in a 4-vector, not 3-vector. You should get your physics from a source that isn't a television show before you start to demand things of others with such exasperation.What do you mean 'in fact it's just what it is'? Whether it is or not depends entirely upon how you want to define time travel. It's just semantics. Oh, and the TV show is pretty much incidental - my 'source' is the fact that I'm doing a master's in physics. SNIP. No, it really isn't, and no you aren't or you wouldn't be arguing this point in lay terms, but rather adressing the issue of a specific metric used for N-vectors. Regardless, we exist in 3+1 dimensions, and our motion IS described by motion through all four of them, including time. We follow the thermodynamic arrow of time, forward, and if you have any aspirations to learn about Relativity, you'll need to know that. ---- @All: The only way people are leaving this solar system is if we take a human corpse and send it on a one-way trip on a voyager-esque probe in the near-term. We couldn't get people to Mars in a timely fashion right now, and that's orders of magnitude closer than the heliopause. Again, if you beleve in 2-way FTL travel, that's time travel too, so... do you REALLY think we'll make working time machines? REALLY?
I don't think we'll travel to other galaxies - those are thousands if not millions of light years away. But I think we'll travel beyond our solar system eventually. If we could build a ship the size of a city, and generations of people could live on it as it travelled to another solar system (that would probably have been identified as containing a planet that we could live on), I think we may do that.
And who knows, a few thousand years from now maybe we'll have discovered how to travel faster than light.
Not gonna happen. I think most people here are unable to even begin to comprehend the nearly infinite distances involved with interstellar travel. the energy required to send even a very small ship with only a few passengers to the nearest star, Proxima Centauri, which is "only" 4.5 light years away, is greater than the sum of all of the energy generated by humanity throughout all of human history. Not to mention that at such speed, even dust particles will detonate on the space ship with the force of an atomic bomb.Tykain...And radiation is an issue, fuel, water, air, the human body demineralizing due to live in microgravity, etc. Still, people here seem to think that you can just say, "it's a matter of time", and that solves it all. To me, that's treating science like a religion, not what it is. As far as anyone can tell, leaving the solar system would be a ridiculous challenge, never mind Proxima Centauri. WIthin the solar system too, it's not just dust, you have the asteroid belt, and then putatively the Kuiper Belt, and all kinds of unexpected debris. It's amazing that Voyager 1 has made it so far frankly, and that was a small probe that didn't have to support human life, not to mention sanity.
[QUOTE="Tykain"]Not gonna happen. I think most people here are unable to even begin to comprehend the nearly infinite distances involved with interstellar travel. the energy required to send even a very small ship with only a few passengers to the nearest star, Proxima Centauri, which is "only" 4.5 light years away, is greater than the sum of all of the energy generated by humanity throughout all of human history. Not to mention that at such speed, even dust particles will detonate on the space ship with the force of an atomic bomb.Frame_Dragger...And radiation is an issue, fuel, water, air, the human body demineralizing due to live in microgravity, etc. Still, people here seem to think that you can just say, "it's a matter of time", and that solves it all. To me, that's treating science like a religion, not what it is. As far as anyone can tell, leaving the solar system would be a ridiculous challenge, never mind Proxima Centauri. WIthin the solar system too, it's not just dust, you have the asteroid belt, and then putatively the Kuiper Belt, and all kinds of unexpected debris. It's amazing that Voyager 1 has made it so far frankly, and that was a small probe that didn't have to support human life, not to mention sanity. Thank you for enlightening us Despite me knowing we wouldn't be able to travel such distances I did not know if these things. Anyways /thread :P
Space travel = source of rage quitting.KcubeIn me, it's a source of: WALL... OF... TEXT!!! I saved the lecture from the last, "will we travel to 'x'" thread just in case it gets out of hand. I killed that thread with science... :P
Of course, if we don't all kill ourselves over something stupid first. It was only like fifty years after man invented the airplane that we landed on the moon. Technology gets better each and every day. I'm not concerned with whether or not we'll ever have humans on other planets, my only concern is whether or not I'll live long enough to see it.
[QUOTE="Kcube"]Space travel = source of rage quitting.Frame_DraggerIn me, it's a source of: WALL... OF... TEXT!!! I saved the lecture from the last, "will we travel to 'x'" thread just in case it gets out of hand. I killed that thread with science... :P You kill every thread when you hold it it then shrivels away and hides in the darkness, only to be bumped by it's enemy D:
[QUOTE="Kcube"]Space travel = source of rage quitting.Frame_DraggerIn me, it's a source of: WALL... OF... TEXT!!! I saved the lecture from the last, "will we travel to 'x'" thread just in case it gets out of hand. I killed that thread with science... :P *Funky music plays YOU change you mind..like a girl changes clothes I should know that your no good for meeehheheheeeee!! Just kidding..your only wrong when its right your only black when its white.
Of course, if we don't all kill ourselves over something stupid first. It was only like fifty years after man invented the airplane that we landed on the moon. Technology gets better each and every day. I'm not concerned with whether or not we'll ever have humans on other planets, my only concern is whether or not I'll live long enough to see it.
brickdoctor
If you use the smallest estimate of the heliopause on the bow-side as the standard, you're talking about between 80-100 AU. The Earth to the moon is, at its closest approach (perigee) 370,400 km (37.04 x 10^4)... OR... .0027 AU (2.4 x 10^-2 AU). (1 AU = the distance from the Earth to Sol, or 149.60×10^6 km. For people thinking we'll reach other STARS, to use an earlier example of Proxima Centauri... that's 4.5 ly, or.... 284578.523 AU.
Remember how long humans walked, rowed, sailed, and otherwise navigated large distances (culminating in aircraft) before we so much as left its atmosphere. It's not 50 years to to the moon, and there is no relation between aircraft at a few tens of thousands of miles vs. and space travel. In 50 years we've gone to the moon, and no further with humans as the payload. THAT is your metric. Above, you have your relative distance scale. Do the math.
[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="Kcube"]Space travel = source of rage quitting.KcubeIn me, it's a source of: WALL... OF... TEXT!!! I saved the lecture from the last, "will we travel to 'x'" thread just in case it gets out of hand. I killed that thread with science... :P *Funky music plays YOU change you mind..like a girl changes clothes I should know that your no good for meeehheheheeeee!! Just kidding..your only wrong when its right your only black when its white. I'm a firework, I let it work, I go ah ah ah. @Parkurtommo: That... is... SO sweet!!! :D
I'm pretty sure we won't be leaving our solar system in my lifetime. At the current rate things are going (especially with NASA's budget) I doubt we'll even put a man on Mars in my lifetime. Or, if we do put a man on Mars before I die I'll probably be really old.
But on the other hand, who knows what we'll have in the year 3000. 200 years ago the idea that you could go from London to New York in a few hours was laughable. 20 years ago the idea that you could use your telephone as an alarm clock, a movie player, and about a million other things was laughable. Who knows what we will have in the year 2100 that people would laugh at you for thinking of today. For all we know by the year 2500 we might have found a way to make people live to be 300.
A lot of the reasons we think of stating why it will never, ever happen could be non-issues in a few centuries if our decendents think of ways to get around it. The current theory is that we may never go faster than the speed of light but nobody can say 100% what we can and can't do in a thousand years especially when you look at what we can do in 2011 versus what man could do in 1011. We won't live to see man leave the solar system but that doesn't men it will never happen in the history of mankind.
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