Do you think that many men (esp. young men) overestimate how easy it is for a woman to get w/ a high quality man?

I think a lot of men (esp younger aged men, 18-39) think that women can get a date with high value men (handsome , rich or both) like its nothing based off Tinder experiment videos or Instagram messaged. They think that even obese women have access to so called "chad" but I think that its more complicated than that.

For example, every time I go out, most obese women are with other overweight or obese men or those low income (usually those Trump redneck or ghetto men.) If these landwhales really had access to high value men, they would date high value men, not other fat men or low income men. Sure they can match with one on Tinder or Bumble. That's because most men swipe right on everyone, bots, fake accounts, doctored images , just want cyber sex, set up a date but ghost etc. The men who would actually physically meet up with a landwhale via a dating app and date are mostly overweight or obese men or those low income men.

I think its easy to think that all women have access to top tier men(even landwhales and ugly betties) based off these Tinder/bumble matches and instagram messages that most women get, but in real life the men who would actually meet these ppl and go on long term dates are actually usually around their looks and status level.

Thoughts?

I think most people don't have frivolous thoughts like these tbh

@girlusocrazy: I mean, OP is referring to people as landwhales, he's clearly dabbled in the manosphere community that peddles these ideas.

Get help.

I'd recommend you get a dog.

TC clearly thinks of himself as a "high value man" and has gotten a hard dose of reality when women find him creepy for getting a boner over baristas at lewd coffee shops.

No, they don't.

This is like when Trump's "locker room talk" excuse came out. No, dude, we don't talk like that in locker rooms. We don't think like that. You're talking about yourself and make a select few assholes. Definitely not the norm.

Pretty much. Many, many red flags.

It's quite frightening how subtle it can seem to the folks that fall prey to these grifters. Don't even realize it's happening, they come off all mild-mannered when discussing it...but inside their brains they're like "No, I have earned a proper woman. I am a high-value alpha male! Society is wrong, not me".

Sadly these people tend to leave a lot of abused people and ruined relationships in their wake.

For real.

I recommend speaking with a therapist, probably a woman would be good as they could offer some perspective.

I think you need to spend less time online.

I think you are a "useful idiot" (I don't think you are actually an idiot, it's just a term for folks like you that willingly submit themselves to predators) that has fallen prey to the manosphere grift machine.

I think you need to start detoxing from this kind of thinking.

I think you need to just view people as people, and stop assigning tags to them. Landwhales? High-value men? Really, dude?

I think you maybe should look into how to practice gratitude, get out of this negative feedback loop you're stuck in, and be thankful for the small things in life and maybe start there.

And get some fucking therapy. Like now. I think you're having some serious issues like depression or anxiety.

That OP certainly is, something. Wow.

Whats wrong with using that service? I mean they exist for a reason.

Why do phone sex services exist? They exist for a reason, right? They sure do, they make bank off creeps like you. Lol

While I won't say it's creepy or whatever as I don't want to "ick" anyone's "yum", it's definitely not something a "high-value man" partakes in 😋

If men don't think this shit is creepy, then tell these things to the women they fancy and see how they react.

I went there today and the girl serving was friendly and served me a smoothie in a thong. She asked me how my day was and we had a small chat. I gave a $2 tip. It gave me a boner. I then went home and masturbated while thinking about my experience.

What you going to do about it? I plan on going there next Saturday as well.

@bcroger3: By all means, be a "low value man". Thinking of yourself any higher than that is nothing short of imposter syndrome.

I am happy for you and totally support you doing what makes you happy provided it harms no one else. Golden Rule, and all that 👍

Outside of that, I generally don't care, nor do I want to "do anything about it".

With that said, you did come on here asking for our "thoughts", so if you lack the strength to take what we say constructively (or, in some cases, critically) maybe you should seek help with that.

Next time you see her, tell her what you did after 🤣 Real "high value" of you

Yeah after his last post, I definitely take it back.

Totally creep behavior. YIKES.

I actually don't know anyone that does shit like this, either. In fact most men I know sort of laugh at this behavior.

Dude gave a $2 tip, which is cheap as hell. Probably thinks she should be grateful for it and come home with him, too. $2 is cheap for what this women must endure.

@mrbojangles25: @jaydan:

I stop by at the lewd coffee shop and you guys make that many generations about me and get THAT offended? What about men who watch porn or go to strip clubs? How do you even love being that offended over everything?

Also 2 tip is a lot considering the smoothie is $8. That’s 25% tip. And what does you mean by “endure?” You do realize they choose to be there? If you are going to judge men for using this service, you should judge those who offer it. Double standard?

What exactly did you expect when you came on here posting your habits? Validation, approval, support?

You go to a coffee shop, ogle a young lady, then go home and jerk off to the mental image of her. Then you come on here touting "manosphere" nonsense.

Buddy...I hate to break it to you, but you have problems. Depression, social anxiety, ADHD, ASD, NPD, or maybe somethng else...who knows? The lewd cafe thing is just a symptom. So, again I say to you: go seek help. I mean that in the best way possible, as someone who has sought out help himself with various problems throughout my life.

Not really sure what else to say at this point.

Actually definitely seems like NPD

NPD stands for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a mental health condition characterized by an inflated sense of self-importance, an excessive need for admiration, and a lack of empathy for others. Individuals with NPD may have difficulty maintaining healthy relationships and may exhibit manipulative behaviors.

Key Characteristics of NPD:

• Grandiosity: An exaggerated sense of self-importance and a belief that one is superior to others.
• Need for Admiration: An insatiable craving for attention, praise, and validation from others.
• Lack of Empathy: Difficulty understanding or recognizing the feelings, needs, and perspectives of others.
• Sense of Entitlement: An unreasonable belief that one deserves special treatment and that others should cater to their needs.
• Exploitative Behavior: Taking advantage of others to achieve personal gain or satisfy their own needs.
• Fragile Self-Esteem: While outwardly confident, they are highly sensitive to criticism and may react negatively to perceived slights.
• Arrogance: A haughty and boastful manner, often accompanied by a disdain for those they perceive as inferior.

Pretty much every single one of those to a T. Not a doctor, though, so grain of salt and all that...

Unwanted advances, unwanted touch, unwanted proposals, sexual assault, stalking, verbal abuse, etc. Not from you, of course, but this is a common issue with folks in this industry.

I'm trying not to judge anyone but you're not making it easy lol.

In either case, that's not how this works. You don't get to be a creep and then go "But how is it my fault? They're the ones putting it out there!"

That's a good tip for standard service.

This is not standard service, however. They're dressing down for you, talking to you when they probably don't want to.

Just because they are doing their job doesn't necessarily mean they like their job. Sort of like most people (and they are people, yes? You do view these women as people, right? RIGHT!?)

You get THAToffended because some guy on the internet you don't even know admits to going to some lewd coffee shop around 1-3 times a week? You wrote a whole essay analyzing me (that I mostly never even read btw) based off me visiting some lewd coffee shop a few times a week? A thread I made over a month ago. You even "diagnosed" me with a serious mental disorder? If anything seems like YOU have a mental problem, NOT me. At this point , you are practically BEGGING me to not visit some lewd coffee shop or at least tip more. lol

What about men who use strip clubs, escorts, pornography, only fans etc? Do you also judge them? Do you judge only fans content creators or women who work at these establishments? Because if not, it seems like a double standard. You are only judging immoral behavior of men, not women.

It seems like you are being the Sahara moral police and you (not me) are the one exhibiting mental disorders (some type of OCD related to immoral behavior of others.)

@bcroger3: I'm not offended, my friend, I'm just concerned. It's less about you looking at women, and more about your initial post and how you classified and objectified people.

Again, I cite the following choice words from your first post:

• ...high value men (handsome , rich or both)
• ...obese women...
• ...chad...
• ...obese women...
• ...overweight or obese men...
• ...low income...
• ...Trump redneck...
• ...ghetto men...
• ...landwhales...
• ...access to high value men...
• ...high value men...
• ...fat men...
• ...low income men...
• ...swipe right on everyone...
• ...landwhale...
• ...overweight or obese men...
• ...low income men....
• ...access to top tier men...
• ...landwhales
• ...ugly betties...
• ...Tinder/bumble matches...
• ...instagram messages...
• ...looks
• ...status level...

Not the mindset or vocabulary of someone who is doing well. Who is really the one judging people here, eh?

So again I have to ask: what exactly did you come looking for when you made your first post?

I didn't want to go there, but since you brought it up: are you from that area originally? A lot of men that emigrate from cultures where women are not treated as equals tend to have a tough time adjusting to a new culture where women are treated as equals (or we at least say we do...).

It might explain some of the issues you have with your own masculinity, women, and so forth.

You'd be surprised. It's not so common among people our own age (assuming most users here are Millennials or Gen X), but it's fairly common among younger Gen Z men... I suspect TC is in that age group. That whole manosphere TikTok trend was instrumental in swinging the Gen Z male vote in favour of Trump.

So what? I can use those words if I so choose to its an anonymous internet forum. I hear people say much worse things even when not anomalous. Its not like I speak like that in real life. If you are going to get offended by terms such as "Trump redneck," " ghetto men," and "landwhale" on an anonymous internet forum then you have issues of your own to worry about.

And no, I was born in the east coast but now live/grew up in Texas. Why you YOU assume that I am of middle eastern or African descant based off some negative things I said? In fact the president himself has used worse terms than me and he's an American president, not a dictator of some African nation. Most of the ppl on manophere forums or Twitter seem to be white Americans. Perhaps you need to stop generalizing people based off their race or religion. Sounds hypocrital of you of you to tell others to stop generalizing fat chicks , but then you generalize Arab , black and /or immigrant men?

Yes, it's true. Women big or small think they can date high value men, but in reality there will always be competition.

If a guy is a pilot and on the dating app, they will have a ton of likes compared an average male.

Lets not forget, personality is very important when it comes to dating.

Still waiting for an answer to my first question: what did you expect when you came here asking for our thoughts after you posted that nonsense?

And then followed up with a story about how you "got a smoothie, chatted with a girl in a thong, then went home and jerked off"

You asked for our thoughts but maybe you were looking for support?

The fact that you only say it while anonymous means you either believe it's wrong, are too much of a coward to use it publicly, or both. Again, a sign that you are having some problems with your mental health.

I'm not offended. I just sort of feel sorry for you and your need to use that sort of language to describe and categorize people. I wonder why you feel the need to do so?

In either case, I'm sorry you're offended by landwhales, low-value people, ugly betties, and so forth. I don't know what exactly they did to you to warrant your disdain, but apparently they did something to upset you.

Well, you did bring it up so it made it sort of relevant. I didn't assume anything, I simply asked if you were. But since you're not from there, go ahead and disregard.

I'm also not generalizing, it's just a documented thing to happen when a person of one culture comes over and has trouble assimilating to another culture. Again, since you brought it up, I thought I would mention it in order to gain some understanding. But it doesn't apply here, so moving on

It's pretty mind blowing that more 20-something men voted for Trump than 70+ year old men.

Doesn't make me feel good about the future.

I take no issue with "low-value people, ugly betties, and so forth." But to be honest, YES, I am somewhat fatphobic. For some reason, I do judge obese ppl.

I never even thought of obese women much, then I got a job for a government office in a small town. Could well be the fattest place on planet earth. For some reason, I do get annoyed by the morbid obesity I see on a daily basis. I would say about 85% of the women there are obese; with LOTS of morbid obesity. I am never mean or say anything about their weight. That said, I don't interact with them in a friendly manner in many instances because of the way they look. I will gladly work with them, but in many cases I save small talk for others.

Am I working on it? Yes. Me judging them for being extremely fat does nothing good. Can I control feeling slightly disgusting and judgmental over their weight? To an extent. I think its rooted in evolutionarily biology. Again, I am not mean to them, I just prefer to keep to myself at work and mostly talk to the normal or just overweight ppl and keep our interactions mostly work related. I also think that i'm missing out on some interactions bc I don't like talking to morbidly obese ppl. But I mean these are some of the fattest ppl on planet earth, so most ppl would feel a little negativity working with them.

I think………it doesn’t help that most of the comments are are gaslighting TC. While I disagree with his premise, you guys are quick to criticize for some unknown reason. TC called himself a top tier man. I see no issue with it. Buts its clear everyone here does. Why is everyone just so quick to judge here??? Are you all so perfect?? I’m not and everyone here certainly isn’t. And some are more perfect than others.

Thanks bro.

I wouldn't have judged the TC if he hadn't been so judgmental of others.

It's not the lifestyle I object to, the visits to the bikini baristas, and so on; it's the hypocrisy.

I don't expect anyone to be perfect, but when you come in here talking about people like "top tier" this and "low tier" that, referring to people as whales and ugly betties, talking about jerking off after getting a smoothie from a server in a thong...well, you sort of ask for it, and for a good reason. Dude it arrogant, toxic, and yes this kind of thinking hurts people so it needs to be called out.

And now you validated him, which is what he was looking for all along. So good job @outworld222 encouraging him.

@mrbojangles25: I''m not encouraging anything, he's not my friend. I don't know the dude. That was very cringe man. I'm sorry. How about we elevate the level if discussion, please. We're still gaslighting each other.

I never said I was "top tear" I simply pointed out that dating dynamics aren't as they seem on the surface level. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding? I never referred to myself as top tear. I agree the term "ugly betty" is offensive, and should not be used. I never realized that people would be offended by such a term.

I think the term "landwhale" is mostly a joke. If you get offended by fat jokes on the internet then you honestly need thicker skin.

Yeah fair enough.

I've just seen the bad side of what people with a similar mentality does when I worked at a restaurant and bar. I've seen "top tier" guys--handsome, rich, in-shape, etc--get kicked out of bars for harassing the bartenders and ladies, waiting outside, stalking them, and worse.

Is that what TC is? Probably not. Like you, I don't know the guy. But if I had to make a judgement call based solely on his posts, I would have to say that he is certainly on that road, again, if I had to make that judgement based on his posting history.

I wouldn't want him hanging around any women I know, to put it bluntly.

I tried to be diplomatic in my posting, express my desire to say I don't judge his lifestyle choices but only his mindset of thinking too highly of himself while thinking to lowly of others, but that went in one ear and out the other, as he continued to say "Don't judge me for going to a bikini barista place". I never did judge him for that, by the way.

I guess I shouldn't have played armchair therapist? I still think he needs help, though, just not from any of us lol.

I don't think so. It's easier for me to convince a leopard to get rid of its spots than it is for me to convince a girl to date me. I just don't have social skills.

TC must be top tier until the moment he starts speaking, then it's back to the beta leagues.

Jokes aside. The on-line manosphere built a delusional generation of enucs with 0 social skills who think the world as a whole and women in particular owns then anything.

I find it pathetic. I'm a regular 45yo dude and I wish I had less women wanting to date me. Just don't be a pos, that usually helps. Be a decent human, surprisingly that's all it takes for women to see you as a good catch.

On the flip side, Gen Z women are the most left-wing demographic by far. There's a huge gender divide... Gen Z gender war, in other words.

Thats not all true. 40% of women aged 18-29 voted for Trump and there was an 18% shift among young women to the right.

Trump gained 7 points among women from 2020 to 2024. 53% of women voted for Harris , while 45% for Trump in 2024 ,https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls in 2020, , 57% of women voted for Biden while only 42% voted for Trump, netting a 15 point difference. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-elections/exit-polls/

Women moved 7 points to Trump while men on the other hand only netted a 4 point move to the right (+12 for Trump in 2024 , while +8 for Trump in 2020)

Per Fox News exit polls 54% of all voters were women and 46% of them voted for Trump meaning that about 50% of all Trump voters were women

https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2024/general-results/voter-analysis

So yes, women moved to the right much more than men and between %53-54 of all voters were women in 2024. Trump was very popular among white women in particular. White women had a VERY high turnout (representing 37% of the electorate) and well over 50% voted for Trump or a third party candidate. Young men on the other hand were 7% of the electorate and it was roughly 50/50 with them.

2024 exit polls: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls

2020 exit polls: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-elections/exit-polls/

Women moved 7 points to Trump while men on the other hand only netted a 4 point move to the right

Per Fox News exit polls 54% of all voters were women and 46% of them voted for Trump meaning that about 50% of all Trump voters were women

https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2024/general-results/voter-analysis

So yes, women moved to the right much more than men . Trump was very popular among white women in particular. White women had a VERY high turnout (representing 37% of the electorate) and well over 50% voted for Trump or a third party candidate. Young men on the other hand were 7% of the electorate and it was roughly 50/50 with them.

I never voted nor supported Trump myself, but why are we always blaming half of Trump voters but not the other half? Seems like white women gave Trump the presidency with their extremely high turnout and majority Trump support. Young men were 7% of the electorate, so the impact was not big enough to swing the election anyways.

@mattbbpl: "I mean, OP is referring to people as landwhales"

😂

@bcroger3: After skimming your post, I can see why you cannot interest women.

According to your own source:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls

Women aged 18-29 voted 61% Harris and only 38% Trump. In other words, Gen Z women are the most left-wing demographic by far.

It's also worth noting that the voter turnout decreased significantly in 2024. The real problem for Harris was voter apathy. Trump energized right-wing voters, whereas Harris failed to energize left-wing voters.