Do you think that people are getting dumber?

No

[QUOTE="Harisemo"]

You no longer need to waste brain power to figure out 2+2=5 because you can use a calculator, I don't see how this means people are getting dumber, sure I might suck at maths but it's not like I am no longer able to comprehend it, I can still learn math just as good as that old fart. Also what does sucking at math have to do with reasoning?

magicalclick

you have typo in your math.

calculator battery is low, it's not showing numbers properly :P

Actully, looking at the amount of hacked facebook accounts that i have seen today, yes.

why would you think its a good idea to type in your facebook info to watch a video that was posted on someones wall? not to mention it was on a site that had nothing ot do with facebook...'sigh'

[QUOTE="stanleycup98"]People aren't becoming dumber, but they don't think as much. But they don't need to, and so I don't see the problem with that. Why would an engineer want to sit with a piece of paper and work out a problem when he can type in some numbers and get the answer instantly? Why would a doctor want to guess where the lesion is when they can get an exact location and the appearance of it within minutes? Does that mean they couldn't do it? No...an engineer could likely work out a problem by hand if he wanted to. People are as smart as ever, just because we use technology to replace our thinking doesn't mean that we are dumber.BLKR4330

i think you would be surprised how little most peoples can do when you take away all the things we have introduced to "make our lives easier". one of the best examples is probably car navigation systems, i know peoples that can't find the way to a place they have been many times while using their car navigation, turn it off and they just don't have a clue. what's even worse, we aren't even taught anymore how to do it the "old-fashioned" way, it's often considered obsolete. like you said this is not an apparent problem by itself because we have the technology so we can afford to be stupid and you could easily argue we would be more stupid not to use it. unfortunately however this seems to translate to problem solving capabilities in general, my jaw frequently drops when i see peoples do things that go against what should be basic common sense.

i do hold a view that peoples are getting dumber and that technology plays a part in that. I doubt it's the only factor but it does present us with a very superficial and/or summarized version of the problems we face whereas the reality behind it may be very complex. i think this causes simplified views, stops us from getting to the core of problems and makes us think about solutions in a very linear way. these things combined already hold a great danger of stupidity, then what makes it worse is that peoples often have no idea of their shortcomings because technology also gives them a false perception of their capabilities as they confuse skill with the trick they were taught to use someone else's skill.

Sparrow disagrees with Nicholas Carr, whose alarming 2008 article "Is Google Making Us Stupid?" explains what he sees as the brain-corrosive side effects of digital devices. It doesn't prove that we're incapable of thinking long and hard about anything, she said. "And it could be that once we stop worrying about memorizing dates and facts and names, we're better able to concentrate." In fact, a wired life may actually open up more creative things to do with our brain, the team said. Psychologists have long known that it is easier to grasp an abstract concept when the brain is not fixated on memorizing facts.

You mean like my mom got locked in the car because we didn't use central unlock for her? And my dad screaming how to use the new all-in-one scaner when it is exactly the same actions as before? And still seeing people who have no idea what is a file and a folder and right mouse click? And people using strange software instead of using brain dead PrtScn button? And having a big mess of pictures in one folder because they think the photo gallery will organize it for them? And thinking they need special software to move digital camera jpg files into their computer? Yeah, it is quite concerning.

The main problem is people only care about procedures. Even if they learn Calculous, they only learn the steps of calculating it, instead of understanding WHY. I have seen so many strange PC misues because they don't know what they are doing. They want some strange app to do the exactly same thing that can be done using existing features. Like they forgot how to unlock a door because the procedure changed. Exactly the same fundamental thinking, but, they didn't learn that. They only learn the fixed steps. Even if they learned Calculous, they are not going anywhere with that level of understanding.

As for education? It would be very scary for me to imigrate into USA if I have to lean new math skills using my extremely crappy English (I didn't even know how to say suger). Since USA is a country of immigrants, I have no strong opinions. Education has been like this way before my time. It is the way it is. Like all big companies, they aquire more than they develope. The key is to aquire properly, that's all.

magicalclick

No, I think you watch too much scripted, rehearsed and perfected television so you have exceedingly unreal expectations. The correct thing doesn't always come to mind and we don't have all ofthe answers within a moments notice.

I.Q's are higher, but people are lazier, they lack discipline. They don't want to know or learn anything because they choose to be ignorant. They didn't make us learn when I was in school, but when my parents were in school they did the work and learned or the teacher would slap them around until the problem was corrected.Dad had the real ass woopen on standby, so getting slapped around by the teacher was the least of apoor student's problems.

I think people don't use their brain because they don't want to or they can't. They don't get enough sleep and they don't get proper nutrition because the food middle class can afford is garbagetherefore the average person is running on fumes, a zombie.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

yes, but i could not think of a way to express my self without coming of as a complete dick. myperspicacity must be waining as i surround my self with forum posters.

sonicare

That's because the war ended when the chinese were nuked in 1945. ;)

today kids lack of disipline and a sense of self-reward. Too occupied by tech and hearing degrading pop song are a factor too.

not at all, we are just becoming smarter in newer, non-traditional ways. Also, we are becoming more capable.

We are, however, becoming less and less cultured in my opinion.

Id say the gap is widening between those who are considered "intelligent" and those who are not.... Or the opposite could be true and kids are much more intelligent but are just very lazy.... I know when I was in high school most of my friends would never complete their homework assignments but would ace tests and final exams.... I think kids just need more of a challenge in their academic pursuits....

Id say the gap is widening between those who are considered "intelligent" and those who are not.... Or the opposite could be true and kids are much more intelligent but are just very lazy.... I know when I was in high school most of my friends would never complete their homework assignments but would ace tests and final exams.... I think kids just need more of a challenge in their academic pursuits....

oblivion1010101

yeah I agree with this.

I also think the difference between "wisdom" and "intelligence" is also becoming more discernible between people. Plenty of college grads are intelligent (i.e. they can perform heart surgery, build damns, etc) but they lack people skills such as interpreting actions, predicting what people will do, etc. (those are poor examples of wisdom I admit, but I am a bit drunk to think of any good ones. Drunken wisdom FTW :P )

Had this interesting client in the office the other day. He was an 80 year old man who still taught advanced calculus at the local university. He expressed his dismay to me that his class size kept shrinking and shrinking. "No one likes to take math anymore".

Interesting point, but he continued about how people just don't seem to think or reason like they did in the past. He felt we've grown so accustomed to technology that we no longer have to rely on our brains to figure problems out. We have calculators and computers to solve most of our problems. We have net searches to quickly gain whatever answer we need. Instant gratification and no processs of search or reasoning to track it down.

Take doctors, he said. They used to have to sit there and figure out from the patient's history and symptoms what disease they had. Where was the lesion? Now these days, they just get a CT scan or MRI, no thinking required. Take engineers. They now have programs that will do most of their calculations and planning for them. Etc. etc.

While I think that he was simplifying things a little bit, I suspect he does have a solid point. Do you think we are losing our ability to think critically, to reason?

Hard to say, one boon of all this tech is the vast amount of info available to us, but does that actually dumb us down?

sonicare

I think he's oversimplifying it a lot.

I mean...yes...engineers were doing magnificent work before today's modern computers came along. And yes...access to today's modern computers probably makes it easier for someone to do the exact same work as someone before, without expending as much effort. But...so what? I mean...yes it is easier to solve mathematical problems with a calculator than by working that **** out by yourself. As long as you know HOW to do the calculations yourself then by all means, get a computer to run the calculations so that you can free up your time doing other stuff.

He seems to just be sort of a bitter elitist. I mean, I occasionally do some photography stuff, and in photography there are purists who snub everything having to do with digital processes. Which'd be fine if they thought that digital photography didn't get good results. But one of the complaints I hear is "screw that. Back in my day, I had to work my ass off to make a picture like that. Today, anyone can do that with a few mouse clicks. Blah blah blah."

My point being, the complaint that I referenced isn't about "the work getting worse", it's more about "the methods getting easier and more accurate/reliable". And I think a lot of those kinds of complaints come from mere bitterness of this sort: "WTF...I didn't have access to that kind of stuff before, so life isn't fair." Often, that sort of stuff comes off less as new technology HINDERING people's ability to critically think, but rather that the person who's doing the complaining doesn't like to see a new generation coming along who can do the same thing more easily.

Here's the thing...photoshop might have made it incredibly easy for amateurs to do **** that would have been incredibly difficult and time-consuming using standard darkroom materials. But...we're still just talking about pictures. It's sort of rare for anyone to DIE over that stuff. Whereas I freaking CAN die if I'm sick with an ailment that requires a doctor's attention. I (as the potential patient) don't give a flying **** whether or not the doctor is so great that he CAN diagnose me without a CT scan or an MRI. Worst case scenario, new technology potentially results in proper diagnoses which could have POTENTIALY been discovered by a better doctor without the use of such new technologies. Best case scenario, GOOD doctors will use that new technology to do their jobs BETTER. In any case, I don't give a **** how hard the doctor has to work or think critically in order to give me the correct diagnosis. I just want the correct ****ing diagnosis. When my freaking LIFE is on the line, then by all means, use modern technology to help you do your job BETTER.

We're getting smarter

We have UAVs we can use away from the warzone.Tho they get shot there gone.

We have computers,calucators,etc.That can give us answers,etc.

And more.

We advance everyday.But in the 1900s they thought we would be on the moon mining in the 2000s.

They're hopes were lost. But one day we will be living on other planets.

There have always been dumb people. Are they getting dumber? I didn't know that was possible.

[QUOTE="quatoe"]

It really depends on the person. I will use myself as an example. I agree about what the elderly man said about calculators, way too many people use them. Throughout elementary and high school I rarely used a calculator due to the fact I enjoyed figuring the equations out. You feel satisfied when you get the correct answer from using your intellect, not a computer programmed to the work for you. I also blame how children are raised nowadays. So many young children (especially whereI live) have cell phones or laptops by the time they are 8-10 years old. For me, thats a big issue. The children begin to rely on technology at an earlier age rather than using their own brain power too think of things. They would rather use google then actually research using a textbook or newspaper.

shoot-first

My kid would not have their own laptop at such a young age. Maybe when they hit their teen years, if they're lucky.

I'm 13, and I have my own laptop (for studies and school, as my school uses them) and phone (as my parents feel the need to contact me or for me to contact them if something were to go wrong on my walk home.). My phone has come in useful, and it's a boredom killer as I can get onto Fruit Ninja quickly. (I have a Galaxy S2).

So sometimes, kids do actually need these technologies at a young age. (Although I mean 10 years old and up) Although I know parents who give their kids phones, and not just any phones, really good phones.

My second cousin (8 years old) has a Samsung F480 and got it when her mum upgraded to an iPhone 4. She had this phone before I got my S2, and I thought "WTH! This kid is younger than me, and she has a high end phone, whereas I have an old Nokia! What's with her parents!"

Woops, bit off topic there. On topic, yes, I do think people are getting dumber. I've heard (don't mod me please) stats like 41% of Americans don't know where America is on a map.

Yes. Its that simple

i partly agree with you on most what you said, but doctors part.. NO then people will die by time doctor "figures" out the problem, but i can backup your theories with.. EVERY living thing gets rusty and loses quality like muscles.. you dont work out your muscles will be **** so does brain people nowdays dont train their brains to figure things out, they simply google stuff without even thinking thus making brain rest easy and go into deep sleep...

lol the very fact that we have that kind of technology is a result of modern intelligent people. We use those devices for convenience so we can act faster. We know so much more about medicine than ever before. lol why don't we go back to the old days where football doctors use to pass around the same sponge to every player. 'Don't hog it there son, squeeze it out and pass it along. You'll be right!'

I wouldnt say dumber. The problem is that there are too many distractions to a person´s education nowadays.

I agree with what you are saying, but I don't consider that getting dumber. To me, getting dumber means people are losing the capability to have knowledge. I expect most of the people who get lost after turning off the navigation system will be able to learn the roads within a few hours of driving. People can still be as smart as ever. A study was recently published in Science magazine that showed that the way the brain stores memories is changing. You can read it: http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_18478827?nclick_check=1. I feel like this is what you are talking about, but in no way do I consider that as people getting dumber, just people becoming dependent on technology. Which is completely understandable, why should people make the effort to learn how to do things when they can do it in seconds with their computer or phone? The article does address this briefly:

Sparrow disagrees with Nicholas Carr, whose alarming 2008 article "Is Google Making Us Stupid?" explains what he sees as the brain-corrosive side effects of digital devices. It doesn't prove that we're incapable of thinking long and hard about anything, she said. "And it could be that once we stop worrying about memorizing dates and facts and names, we're better able to concentrate." In fact, a wired life may actually open up more creative things to do with our brain, the team said. Psychologists have long known that it is easier to grasp an abstract concept when the brain is not fixated on memorizing facts.stanleycup98

maybe i am unable to appreciate this new kind of smart. i see it as dumber because it is not rooted in a basic understanding and comprehension. the technology may be smart but that doesn't automatically make the peoples using it smart. if anything it has become too smart for too many peoples and makes us less accustomed to determine what is important and what is not, to link pieces of information together and recognize interdependencies, to gain an insight in the bigger picture and to actually think for ourselves. this will all work out mostly fine as long as nothing too much out of the ordinary is thrown at us (and the technology doesn't fail) but it's mostly just a trick we learn that makes us less flexible and, i would argue, dumber.