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I am sure Obamas ratings are dropping. Have you ever noticed it's the ones without something that want the ones with something to support their wants and holler the most about it.
corwinn01
I think it's the opposite. The anti-Obama protesters get far more media coverage than sidewalk proponents of Obama's hc plan.
[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]
[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]
Translation: you choose to spend your money on things besides healthcare.
Oleg_Huzwog
Incorrect. I want to eventually send my kids to college and feed myself and my family. Is that such a crime?
You're posting on a videogame website, a site that favors aficionados of a rather expensive hobby. How much have you spent on gaming?
I remember you in other threads demonstrating a thorough knowledge of music, which indicates an extensive music collection. How much have you spent on that?
So what you're saying is that people who play videogames and listen to music are rich and are extravagant spenders? Do you know that 170 million people in the US plays videogames? And probably EVERYONE listens to music. Are all these people reckless spenders who have their priorities mixed up:?
And there it is folks- "I don't want to work/sacrifice for something. Make somebody else buy it for me!" People really wonder why the US is having so many economic problems with this kind of outlook? Seems pretty obvious that this "gimme! gimme!" attitude is breaking the bank. Then they'll get upset when nobody wants to buy our debt and inflation strikes at a massive rate.I do have an extensive music collection, and I do have an original Xbox (I cannot yet afford one of the 'next-gen' consoles). I'm not in poverty, mind you, but I would have to make extensive sacrifices if I were to take the plunge and get health insurance. Better the wealthy pay for a fraction of it than I break my balls paying for it all.
Chargeagles1
[QUOTE="Chargeagles1"]And there it is folks- "I don't want to work/sacrifice for something. Make somebody else buy it for me!" People really wonder why the US is having so many economic problems with this kind of outlook? Seems pretty obvious that this "gimme! gimme!" attitude is breaking the bank. Then they'll get upset when nobody wants to buy our debt and inflation strikes at a massive rate.I do have an extensive music collection, and I do have an original Xbox (I cannot yet afford one of the 'next-gen' consoles). I'm not in poverty, mind you, but I would have to make extensive sacrifices if I were to take the plunge and get health insurance. Better the wealthy pay for a fraction of it than I break my balls paying for it all.
LongZhiZi
Hey! I said that, not Chareagles. And I don't think you understand the sort of sacrifices I would have to make to be able to afford healthcare.
[QUOTE="pyromaniac223"]But then the question comes up, are you willing to screw over 50 million AMERICANS to spite some illegal immigrants?
The overwhelming majority of those 50 million are screwing themselves (i.e. are perfectly capable of affording insurance but choose not to do so for whatever reason).
This is true, but many people won't admit it.I wish it would raise it, but with all these redneck libertarians getting all this media coverage I dunno what's going to happen.
Hot-Tamale
Those are not Libertarians, they are idiots. I blame people like Rush Limbah, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, the rest of Faux News almost entirely for this phenomenon of uninformed, outspoken morons. It was not they that turned the idea of "using Medicare to cover optional end of life counseling" into "death panels". It was Sarah Palin who did that and Faux News who amplified it. Unfortunately, people that raise legitimate concerns hardly get any media coverage.
On a side note I am in support of anarchy (which makes me a libertarian) however, since that will never happen I actually become liberal on many issues and am infact in support of this bill.
[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]
[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]
Incorrect. I want to eventually send my kids to college and feed myself and my family. Is that such a crime?
You're posting on a videogame website, a site that favors aficionados of a rather expensive hobby. How much have you spent on gaming?
I remember you in other threads demonstrating a thorough knowledge of music, which indicates an extensive music collection. How much have you spent on that?
So what you're saying is that people who play videogames and listen to music are rich and are extravagant spenders? Do you know that 170 million people in the US plays videogames? And probably EVERYONE listens to music. Are all these people reckless spenders who have their priorities mixed up:?
Here's the thing.. what would you rather have, video games/cell phones/music/or whatever, or health insurance?It can only go down with his plan, but who knows how much. It's difficult to judge how much of a negative public opinion the plan has even now. The town hall meeting mess is unrelated to the healthcare plan, and of course they are going to drown out any reasonable criticism. Especially when the conservative right is making up BS like "death panels" to scare people with.
I personally don't know what is best for America nor do I know if the healthcare plan is best for America. But I do question the timing of a healthcare reform during what could have been the onset of a second depression.
[QUOTE="Wasdie"][QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]
Incorrect. Only about 5 million uninsured can afford it, and most of them have above average incomes. The 63 million uninsured in this country need to be covered, and we need to cut costs. Obama's plan WILL save money. The ignorant in our nation don't realize this (or won't believe it).
-Sun_Tzu-
By saving money you mean raising taxes and eliminating the private sector. I have health insurance, why should I pay for those? Also there are only 7-10 million who actually cannot afford any sort of health insurance.
How is raising taxes on people who already pay for healthcare going to save us money? How? That logically doesn't even work. I will now be paying my healthcare costs plus the higher taxes to afford the other healthcare. Its not ignorance, its logic.
You already pay for the uninsured whenever they use the emergency room, which isn't cheap. In reality it would be cheaper for you to pay for their insurance rather than to pay for their medical bill post facto.The emergency room is not basic health coverage.
[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]
I wish it would raise it, but with all these redneck libertarians getting all this media coverage I dunno what's going to happen.
gamer_10001
Those are not Libertarians, they are idiots. I blame people like Rush Limbah, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, the rest of Faux News almost entirely for this phenomenon of uninformed, outspoken morons. It was not they that turned the idea of "using Medicare to cover optional end of life counseling" into "death panels". It was Sarah Palin who did that and Faux News who amplified it. Unfortunately, people that raise legitimate concerns hardly get any media coverage.
On a side note I am in support of anarchy (which makes me a libertarian) however, since that will never happen I actually become liberal on many issues and am infact in support of this bill.
Well I'm glad you aren't a blind individualist like these protesters. Unfortunately, most of your Libertarian brethren agree with the Republicans on this, and they're the ones getting the attention, not the proponents of the bill.
[QUOTE="Chargeagles1"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]
You're posting on a videogame website, a site that favors aficionados of a rather expensive hobby. How much have you spent on gaming?
I remember you in other threads demonstrating a thorough knowledge of music, which indicates an extensive music collection. How much have you spent on that?
GamerForca
So what you're saying is that people who play videogames and listen to music are rich and are extravagant spenders? Do you know that 170 million people in the US plays videogames? And probably EVERYONE listens to music. Are all these people reckless spenders who have their priorities mixed up:?
Here's the thing.. what would you rather have, video games/cell phones/music/or whatever, or health insurance?Choosing not to spend $50 on a game or two isn't going to give you the ability to afford healthcare.
How the hell are any of us supposed to know? The bill is huge, none of us have read it, we don't know what's in it. That's why people are against it, because the current government is too cowardly to let us know what's really in it. It's how both parties get their ways. The government is always run by ignorant old farts, the US is digging a gigantic hole.
[QUOTE="GamerForca"][QUOTE="Chargeagles1"]
So what you're saying is that people who play videogames and listen to music are rich and are extravagant spenders? Do you know that 170 million people in the US plays videogames? And probably EVERYONE listens to music. Are all these people reckless spenders who have their priorities mixed up:?
Here's the thing.. what would you rather have, video games/cell phones/music/or whatever, or health insurance?Choosing not to spend $50 on a game or two isn't going to give you the ability to afford healthcare.
That stuff adds up to a lot more than "one or two games". I mean, you gotta be kidding me, right?The congress one will raise his apporval ratings for maybe a year or two, then when it starts getting worse and people see what will actually happen as a result of the bill, his approval raiting will...it totally depends on how well he blames it on someone else.
[QUOTE="hakanakumono"][QUOTE="GamerForca"] Here's the thing.. what would you rather have, video games/cell phones/music/or whatever, or health insurance? GamerForca
Choosing not to spend $50 on a game or two isn't going to give you the ability to afford healthcare.
That stuff adds up to a lot more than "one or two games". I mean, you gotta be kidding me, right?No, I'm not. If a person is low income then they're not going to buy more than 5 games a year and they're not going to buy a PS3. They're going to buy a $200 360, or keep their PS2.
I think its absurd that you think that people simply choose not to pay for healthcare coverage when they can afford it. That's like me saying a person is raped because they asked for it. No one wants to be given a bad lot, but sometimes it happens. It's difficult for Republicans to understand, but sometimes people do need government assistance because their situation does not allow them to enjoy the same liberties that people who are fortunate enough to be paid well enough to enjoy (by "paid" I also mean healthcare paid for by insurance."
People who provide infastructure to our country, like plumbers, probably aren't going to have health insurance. Nor are they necessarily going to be able to pay for their own healthcare. Ultimately, people who already have healthcare may end up paying more but thats what happens when you want a society where all can enjoy healthcare. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. I'm not sure if Obama's plan is the best idea, but I do believe a little socialism is healthy because it helps out people who cannot otherwise help themselves.
Republicans have this idea that anyone who doesn't get what they want in life are just too lazy to get it. Personally knowing someone on welfare and the struggles she's endured, I know that sometimes situations are not always easy. This said person cannot afford to have necessary surgery done on her ears. She already has abysmal hearing, but because of her situation she will eventually go completely deaf and not be able to enjoy things like music, which I know she enjoys way more than I do.
It'll get worse when people see that more people than ever are insured?The congress one will raise his apporval ratings for maybe a year or two, then when it starts getting worse and people see what will actually happen as a result of the bill, his approval raiting will...it totally depends on how well he blames it on someone else.
hoola
How the hell are any of us supposed to know? The bill is huge, none of us have read it, we don't know what's in it. That's why people are against it, because the current government is too cowardly to let us know what's really in it. It's how both parties get their ways. The government is always run by ignorant old farts, the US is digging a gigantic hole.
Jfisch93
It's still being worked out...nothing's final.
That stuff adds up to a lot more than "one or two games". I mean, you gotta be kidding me, right?[QUOTE="GamerForca"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]
Choosing not to spend $50 on a game or two isn't going to give you the ability to afford healthcare.
hakanakumono
No, I'm not. If a person is low income then they're not going to buy more than 5 games a year and they're not going to buy a PS3. They're going to buy a $200 360, or keep their PS2.
I think its absurd that you think that people simply choose not to pay for healthcare coverage when they can afford it. That's like me saying a person is raped because they asked for it. No one wants to be given a bad lot, but sometimes it happens. It's difficult for Republicans to understand, but sometimes people do need government assistance because their situation does not allow them to enjoy the same liberties that people who are fortunate enough to be paid well enough to enjoy (by "paid" I also mean healthcare paid for by insurance."
People who provide infastructure to our country, like plumbers, probably aren't going to have health insurance. Nor are they necessarily going to be able to pay for their own healthcare. Ultimately, people who already have healthcare may end up paying more but thats what happens when you want a society where all can enjoy healthcare. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. I'm not sure if Obama's plan is the best idea, but I do believe a little socialism is healthy because it helps out people who cannot otherwise help themselves.
Republicans have this idea that anyone who doesn't get what they want in life are just too lazy to get it. Personally knowing someone on welfare and the struggles she's endured, I know that sometimes situations are not always easy. This said person cannot afford to have necessary surgery done on her ears. She already has abysmal hearing, but because of her situation she will eventually go completely deaf and not be able to enjoy things like music, which I know she enjoys way more than I do.
First of all, you're calling me Republican because that's the cheap way to get everyone to agree with you on here. I suppose I'll be nice and give you credit for not yelling Fox. Second, of course there are a few cases where people couldn't afford it on their own (personally, I donate A LOT of money to the needy, and others need to wake up and help). But not 50 million. I also have my own real-life experiences with people on welfare and without health insurance. Know what they have in their house? A 50 inch high def tv, every game system, games sprawled out all over the floor, a new cell phone with unlimited texting (you know, this **** is NOT a necessity), an Ipod, four-wheelers outside, etc. A lot more **** than I ever had despite my family being able to afford health insurance. This is why both Obama AND McCain's plans were so bad. I don't agree with socialized healthcare (I'll explain in a sec), but McCain's plan was to save people a few thousand bucks to put into insurance, which is simply delusional because many people bereft of healthcare would simply spend it on all the **** they've always spent it on.[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]
[QUOTE="GamerForca"] That stuff adds up to a lot more than "one or two games". I mean, you gotta be kidding me, right?GamerForca
No, I'm not. If a person is low income then they're not going to buy more than 5 games a year and they're not going to buy a PS3. They're going to buy a $200 360, or keep their PS2.
I think its absurd that you think that people simply choose not to pay for healthcare coverage when they can afford it. That's like me saying a person is raped because they asked for it. No one wants to be given a bad lot, but sometimes it happens. It's difficult for Republicans to understand, but sometimes people do need government assistance because their situation does not allow them to enjoy the same liberties that people who are fortunate enough to be paid well enough to enjoy (by "paid" I also mean healthcare paid for by insurance."
People who provide infastructure to our country, like plumbers, probably aren't going to have health insurance. Nor are they necessarily going to be able to pay for their own healthcare. Ultimately, people who already have healthcare may end up paying more but thats what happens when you want a society where all can enjoy healthcare. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. I'm not sure if Obama's plan is the best idea, but I do believe a little socialism is healthy because it helps out people who cannot otherwise help themselves.
Republicans have this idea that anyone who doesn't get what they want in life are just too lazy to get it. Personally knowing someone on welfare and the struggles she's endured, I know that sometimes situations are not always easy. This said person cannot afford to have necessary surgery done on her ears. She already has abysmal hearing, but because of her situation she will eventually go completely deaf and not be able to enjoy things like music, which I know she enjoys way more than I do.
First of all, you're calling me Republican because that's the cheap way to get everyone to agree with you on here. I suppose I'll be nice and give you credit for not yelling Fox. Second, of course there are a few cases where people couldn't afford it on their own (personally, I donate A LOT of money to the needy, and others need to wake up and help). But not 50 million. I also have my own real-life experiences with people on welfare and without health insurance. Know what they have in their house? A 50 inch high def tv, every game system, games sprawled out all over the floor, a new cell phone with unlimited texting (you know, this **** is NOT a necessity), an Ipod, four-wheelers outside, etc. A lot more **** than I ever had despite my family being able to afford health insurance. This is why both Obama AND McCain's plans were so bad. I don't agree with socialized healthcare (I'll explain in a sec), but McCain's plan was to save people a few thousand bucks to put into insurance, which is simply delusional because many people bereft of healthcare would simply spend it on all the **** they've always spent it on.No one on welfare has 50 inch TVs, SUVs, or expensive cell phones. You must live in some ritzy part of town or something. I grew up in Santa Ana, CA and have seen more than my fair share of the down and out. Judging by my experience and the fact that I don't have health insurance either, I think it's safe to say that you've been making some major assumptions.
[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]
[QUOTE="GamerForca"] That stuff adds up to a lot more than "one or two games". I mean, you gotta be kidding me, right?GamerForca
No, I'm not. If a person is low income then they're not going to buy more than 5 games a year and they're not going to buy a PS3. They're going to buy a $200 360, or keep their PS2.
I think its absurd that you think that people simply choose not to pay for healthcare coverage when they can afford it. That's like me saying a person is raped because they asked for it. No one wants to be given a bad lot, but sometimes it happens. It's difficult for Republicans to understand, but sometimes people do need government assistance because their situation does not allow them to enjoy the same liberties that people who are fortunate enough to be paid well enough to enjoy (by "paid" I also mean healthcare paid for by insurance."
People who provide infastructure to our country, like plumbers, probably aren't going to have health insurance. Nor are they necessarily going to be able to pay for their own healthcare. Ultimately, people who already have healthcare may end up paying more but thats what happens when you want a society where all can enjoy healthcare. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. I'm not sure if Obama's plan is the best idea, but I do believe a little socialism is healthy because it helps out people who cannot otherwise help themselves.
Republicans have this idea that anyone who doesn't get what they want in life are just too lazy to get it. Personally knowing someone on welfare and the struggles she's endured, I know that sometimes situations are not always easy. This said person cannot afford to have necessary surgery done on her ears. She already has abysmal hearing, but because of her situation she will eventually go completely deaf and not be able to enjoy things like music, which I know she enjoys way more than I do.
First of all, you're calling me Republican because that's the cheap way to get everyone to agree with you on here. I suppose I'll be nice and give you credit for not yelling Fox. Second, of course there are a few cases where people couldn't afford it on their own (personally, I donate A LOT of money to the needy, and others need to wake up and help). But not 50 million. I also have my own real-life experiences with people on welfare and without health insurance. Know what they have in their house? A 50 inch high def tv, every game system, games sprawled out all over the floor, a new cell phone with unlimited texting (you know, this **** is NOT a necessity), an Ipod, four-wheelers outside, etc. A lot more **** than I ever had despite my family being able to afford health insurance. This is why both Obama AND McCain's plans were so bad. I don't agree with socialized healthcare (I'll explain in a sec), but McCain's plan was to save people a few thousand bucks to put into insurance, which is simply delusional because many people bereft of healthcare would simply spend it on all the **** they've always spent it on.It's more than just "a few people" and welfare does not provide enough to give that family what it had. Obviously they were obtaining money somewhere else.
Your Grandfather should have stopped smoking.
Sorry, I just assumed.
First of all, you're calling me Republican because that's the cheap way to get everyone to agree with you on here. I suppose I'll be nice and give you credit for not yelling Fox. Second, of course there are a few cases where people couldn't afford it on their own (personally, I donate A LOT of money to the needy, and others need to wake up and help). But not 50 million. I also have my own real-life experiences with people on welfare and without health insurance. Know what they have in their house? A 50 inch high def tv, every game system, games sprawled out all over the floor, a new cell phone with unlimited texting (you know, this **** is NOT a necessity), an Ipod, four-wheelers outside, etc. A lot more **** than I ever had despite my family being able to afford health insurance. This is why both Obama AND McCain's plans were so bad. I don't agree with socialized healthcare (I'll explain in a sec), but McCain's plan was to save people a few thousand bucks to put into insurance, which is simply delusional because many people bereft of healthcare would simply spend it on all the **** they've always spent it on.[QUOTE="GamerForca"]
[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]
No, I'm not. If a person is low income then they're not going to buy more than 5 games a year and they're not going to buy a PS3. They're going to buy a $200 360, or keep their PS2.
I think its absurd that you think that people simply choose not to pay for healthcare coverage when they can afford it. That's like me saying a person is raped because they asked for it. No one wants to be given a bad lot, but sometimes it happens. It's difficult for Republicans to understand, but sometimes people do need government assistance because their situation does not allow them to enjoy the same liberties that people who are fortunate enough to be paid well enough to enjoy (by "paid" I also mean healthcare paid for by insurance."
People who provide infastructure to our country, like plumbers, probably aren't going to have health insurance. Nor are they necessarily going to be able to pay for their own healthcare. Ultimately, people who already have healthcare may end up paying more but thats what happens when you want a society where all can enjoy healthcare. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. I'm not sure if Obama's plan is the best idea, but I do believe a little socialism is healthy because it helps out people who cannot otherwise help themselves.
Republicans have this idea that anyone who doesn't get what they want in life are just too lazy to get it. Personally knowing someone on welfare and the struggles she's endured, I know that sometimes situations are not always easy. This said person cannot afford to have necessary surgery done on her ears. She already has abysmal hearing, but because of her situation she will eventually go completely deaf and not be able to enjoy things like music, which I know she enjoys way more than I do.
Hot-Tamale
No one on welfare has 50 inch TVs, SUVs, or expensive cell phones. You must live in some ritzy part of town or something. I grew up in Santa Ana, CA and have seen more than my fair share of the down and out. Judging by my experience and the fact that I don't have health insurance either, I think it's safe to say that you've been making some major assumptions.
Of course you think that. People don't lack common sense (in Imagination World), right? Never said they had an SUV (in fact, this particular person had a **** car) either, but you gotta make stuff up, right? And it seems to me that you're the one making assumptions if you think no one without health insurance can afford big tvs and expensive cell phones.It's more than just "a few people" and welfare does not provide enough to give that family what it had. Obviously they were obtaining money somewhere else.
Your Grandfather should have stopped smoking.
Sorry, I just assumed.
Well, certainly they had some job to get a little money from.. that little money just goes to the wrong places. And of course he stopped smoking.. it was just too late. Don't worry, if this passes, you'll see what I mean for yourself.I don't think it should matter. I fhe really beleives in what he is doing then he will do it and not give a crap about ratings...
I don't think it should matter. I fhe really beleives in what he is doing then he will do it and not give a crap about ratings...
observer77
I think you nailed it. I don't know Obama personally, but I have met people who know/knew him, and I also think he and I are a lot alike.
I believe Obama is drawn to do what he thinks is right, even if no one agrees. I know I would. Maybe it's arrogance, I don't know. I have been called that a time or two. But it is what it is.
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