does God exist?

I do have a second belief though, just in case God isn't real (Which is nonsense). I think god is a gamer, and where just characters in some extremly large and extremly realistic Sims game.

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.Fortier

When you say something like that, you usually provide said evidence...

You got any proof he dosen't?

[QUOTE="Fortier"]

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.Kennyofhearts

When you say something like that, you usually provide said evidence...

You got any proof he dosen't?

You know I don't. But the burden of proof usually lies with the one makingthe claim. Either way, a lack of evidence for one side does not prove the other. As you can see, that still works both ways.

Basically, what I'm getting at is thatnobody knows...so I don't believe anybody should claim to.

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.Fortier

When you say something like that, you usually provide said evidence...

fulfilled prophecy is proof that he exists.

[QUOTE="Fortier"]

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.Kennyofhearts

When you say something like that, you usually provide said evidence...

You got any proof he dosen't?

Got any proof the boogieman doesn't exist? Obviously not, so he exists.

Until i see proof of his existence, and he explains me (if he exist that is) why he allows war and suffering, i'm sticking to No, he doesnt exist...sandroDX

of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.XenoNinja

I know!!

I believe, i am christian

and woo ezgamer for taking the middle ground. win.

[QUOTE="sandroDX"]Until i see proof of his existence, and he explains me (if he exist that is) why he allows war and suffering, i'm sticking to No, he doesnt exist...Revinh

of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.XenoNinja

I know!!

very interesting.

[QUOTE="Fortier"]

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.XenoNinja

When you say something like that, you usually provide said evidence...

fulfilled prophecy is proof that he exists.

And what about all the prophecies in the Bible that were unfulfilled? Conveniently ignored so you can revel in the ones that do come true?

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"][QUOTE="Fortier"]

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.OblivionXII

When you say something like that, you usually provide said evidence...

fulfilled prophecy is proof that he exists.

And what about all the prophecies in the Bible that were unfulfilled? Conveniently ignored so you can revel in the ones that do come true?

give me one unfulfilled prophecy?

If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a ****head, maybe she would've listened to him more.syztem

It's called free will. It was her choice whether to be obedient or not.

If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition.syztem

I'm not totally clear on these other things, but like the above, you probably lack some understanding.

[QUOTE="syztem"]If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a ****head, maybe she would've listened to him more.Revinh

It's called free will. It was her choice whether to be obedient or not.

If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition.syztem

I'm not totally clear on these other things, but like the above, you probably lack some understanding.

[QUOTE="Revinh"]

[QUOTE="syztem"]If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a ****head, maybe she would've listened to him more.syztem

It's called free will. It was her choice whether to be obedient or not.

If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition.syztem

I'm not totally clear on these other things, but like the above, you probably lack some understanding.

Which part of my post are you replying to? What makes you think I'm trying to convince you?

One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and - whole the events of that year were certainly of some importance - the world did not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended. There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014'. A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvinenced in any way. But they did not. They could have said, Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth. But they did not. Instead, they did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout. It is astonishing in the fact of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough- mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration was needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry.

Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy. syztem

Care to be specific what religion you're speaking of? I would say Jehovah's Witnesses but I'm not sure since what you say don't really pertain to them.

And I don't exactly understand your last sentence.

You know, I never could figure out why God created fatal birth defects.

I can be sure of one thing though. Genetic mutations have nothing to do with it, with evolution not existing and all.

The Lord works in mysterious ways. Hallelujah! Glory to his merciful name!

[QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="Revinh"][QUOTE="MotherSuperior"]

Basically everything science has taught disagrees with Christian teachings, from evolution to the expansion of the universe (Big Bang Theory). Both of these have been proved, the latter only recently with the invention of computers, more sophisticated computerized telescopes, and celestial measuring devices. I will ridicule you to no end if you do not believe in evolution.Fortier

I do NOT believe in evolution.

I was expecting to be ridiculed to no end...

Yeah, I'm waitingfor that too...

Yep, sorry I was preoccupied with my responses to Ezgam3r because I find that subject far more interesting and entertaining, so I completely forgot about you. I have class right now, but I might be on later tonight to argue with you, depending on my homework situation. If not, then you win, I don't really care. You might want to look up the peppered moth evolution, it could explain a lot and is interesting too. I don't have time to post specific links but just google it and something is bound to come up.

[QUOTE="Fortier"]

[QUOTE="XenoNinja"]of course! there's plenty of proof that he exists.Kennyofhearts

When you say something like that, you usually provide said evidence...

You got any proof he dosen't?

The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim.

Sure he does.

In the collective imagination of man.

Yes. In my opinion, it's as simple as that. I have no need to explain myself, as arguments are pointless, and this topic was made to create arguments.ineedanap

This thread most certainly does not create arguments!!!

I demand you back up such a claim!!!

[QUOTE="Masinai"]

[QUOTE="thenarkallaptar"]There has to be a God. Do you think the whole world could just happen by chance, and be a perfect place to live on like it is? Seriously think about that. I havn't seen any other planets around in our solar system that support life. It's nice we randomly popped up on this planet by our selves with nothing to explain it.MotherSuperior

Chemicals.

Dust gathering for millions of years.

It's possible God didn't have anything to do with us.

Exactly. All other animals get recycled back into Earth-the origin of humanity. What makes humans the exeption that something "special" happens after we die. We get recycled back into the earth just like every other living thing.

That doesn't answer the question.

That doesn't answer the question.

Revinh

This one?

"Do you think the whole world could just happen by chance, and be a perfect place to live on like it is?"

What makes anyone believe that this world is a perfect place to live? Why even create a species of consumers and propagators and place them on a planet with finite resources?

Why place them on a planet whose core is still molten where shifting tectonic plates cause tidal waves, volcanoes, and earthquakes? Whose climatalogical cycle creates drought, floods, tornados and hurricanes? In a Universe that is largely hostile to life.

'Perfect' is a mis-statement. Anyone with an imagination can design a better planet, we just happen to lack the omnipotent power attributed to Gods. So the question itself relies on a wrong assumption.

I'm agnostic so I'm really in between. But the idea of God creating the earth seems pretty far off. The Genesis story is pretty much God doing a bit here and a bit there and then bam! A new world is created. No offense to people who have faith but it just sounds too make believe. I believe the scientific point of view because it has some detail that sounds believeable.mo0ksi

It helps to study the Bible as well...

[QUOTE="Revinh"]

That doesn't answer the question.

Atrus

This one?

"Do you think the whole world could just happen by chance, and be a perfect place to live on like it is?"

What makes anyone believe that this world is a perfect place to live? Why even create a species of consumers and propagators and place them on a planet with finite resources?

Why place them on a planet whose core is still molten where shifting tectonic plates cause tidal waves, volcanoes, and earthquakes? Whose climatalogical cycle creates drought, floods, tornados and hurricanes? In a Universe that is largely hostile to life.

'Perfect' is a mis-statement. Anyone with an imagination can design a better planet, we just happen to lack the omnipotent power attributed to Gods. So the question itself relies on a wrong assumption.

Well, perfect in that sense isn't what s/he and I meant. We're talking about the life and creations on earth. Now, if you're talking about the storms and disasters that makes it not perfectly perfect, studying the Bible provides answers to that and God's purpose. You probably know that, initially, humans were created immortal, don't you?

Well, perfect in that sense isn't what s/he and I meant. We're talking about the life and creations on earth. Now, if you're talking about the storms and disasters that makes it not perfectly perfect, studying the Bible provides answers to that and God's purpose. You probably know that, initially, humans were created immortal, don't you?

Revinh

I didn't address the state of humanity, I addressed the state of the planet. Regardless of what you believe about humans being immortal, it doesn't change the fact that this planet and this universe is inherently volatile. A planet that would destroy everything on it over time only to be scourged by the sun in some arbitrary period or smashed by kilometre wide meteors over the billions of years so that it will inevitably become a cold and lifeless rock like any other planet.

You believe that Original Sin caused mortality, or rather you believe that prior to original sin permanent cell death was impossible and could be sustained without any energy intake whatsoever. Amazing in and of itself until you try to explain how that could even happen which is something that belief neglects to explain. Even more amazing is the fact that lifespans can be altered by humans themselves through selective choices and medicine showing that 'God' is certainly not the one deciding when someone dies. This test can be done over and over again and those we provide vaccines for certain diseases will likely have a much longer lifespan than those that don't. Clearly either God doesn't exist, that it doesn't care, or that its choice as to who lives or doesn't bears a striking resemblance to whichever person recieves medical treatment.

Ultimately the issue is about why an omnipotent being would even create a planet so poorly, not that people can die on this poorly made planet.

I didn't address the state of humanity, I addressed the state of the planet. Regardless of what you believe about humans being immortal, it doesn't change the fact that this planet and this universe is inherently volatile.Atrus

No, it doesn't. But that doesn't disprove God's existence.

A planet that would destroy everything on it over time only to be scourged by the sun in some arbitrary period or smashed by kilometre wide meteors over the billions of years so that it will inevitably become a cold and lifeless rock like any other planet.Atrus

But that's not gonna happen. Because God created the Earth to exist forever. Soon He will take action. And in the future, disasters, pain and suffering will be no more...

You believe that Original Sin caused mortality, or rather you believe that prior to original sin permanent cell death was impossible and could be sustained without any energy intake whatsoever. Amazing in and of itself until you try to explain how that could even happen which is something that belief neglects to explain.Atrus

Well, it was possible. We just don't knowhow, scientifically. Ultimately, the cause of death is sin. But we all die because of the inherited sin or imperfection.

Even more amazing is the fact that lifespans can be altered by humans themselves through selective choices and medicine showing that 'God' is certainly not the one deciding when someone dies. This test can be done over and over again and those we provide vaccines for certain diseases will likely have a much longer lifespan than those that don't. Clearly either God doesn't exist, that it doesn't care, or that its choice as to who lives or doesn't bears a striking resemblance to whichever person recieves medical treatment.Atrus

Like I said, you'd gain more understanding by studying the Bible.

Ultimately the issue is about why an omnipotent being would even create a planet so poorly, not that people can die on this poorly made planet.Atrus

So poorly is an exaggeration, IMO. It disregards the positive features of the planet. But anyways, I think you get the idea by now. Humans weren't poorly created in the beginning (free from defects, diseases, etc). Same thing could be said about the planet Earth.