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blackngold29

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#1 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

You don't have to support your opinion if you do not want to, I would just like to get a general idea.

EDIT: A reoccuring theme that I've seen here is people who claim proof. Remember nobody can prove God does or does not exist.

I believe that faith is "Believeing in God without proof"

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pintabear49blue

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#2 pintabear49blue
Member since 2007 • 4809 Posts
I do not think so.
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gobo212

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#3 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
Why no option in the poll for us agnostics?
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UTXII

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#4 UTXII
Member since 2007 • 3448 Posts
I need prove to believe something like that.
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Aidenfury19

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#5 Aidenfury19
Member since 2007 • 2488 Posts
Can't entirely rule it out, but I'm leaning heavily towards "HELL NO".
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Immortalica

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#6 Immortalica
Member since 2008 • 6309 Posts
No.
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SolidSnake35

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#7 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58971 Posts
I don't know. I think there might be some higher power, but to think that a religion knows the truth seems silly to me.
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blackngold29

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#8 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
Why no option in the poll for us agnostics?gobo212
You believe what?
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MacBP

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#9 MacBP
Member since 2008 • 59 Posts
Of course d exists! I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that god exists!
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bman784

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#10 bman784
Member since 2004 • 6755 Posts
No. There's a possibility, but it's infinitesimally unlikely, and even if a higher being did exist by some tangential possibility, authoritatively saying that just one of the millions of different theistic ideologies, from Hellenistic polytheism to Judeo-Christian monotheism, is correct is just plain illogical. So I go with the simple answer of no;)
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Aradae2357

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#11 Aradae2357
Member since 2007 • 904 Posts

Agnostics don't that it cannot ever be known whether there is a god or not. It cannot be proven so we take a neutral stance. We don't assert either option as a truth.

As such, I will not be voting. My belief is that even if there was a god, he is so far beyond human comprehension that everything earthly that we have written, spoken, or even believed about him is grossly misconstrued.

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gobo212

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#12 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts

[QUOTE="gobo212"]Why no option in the poll for us agnostics?blackngold29
You believe what?

I am agnostic. I believe that such questions are inherently unknowable. It is possible God exists and it's possible God doesn't exist. Such metaphysical qustions can't be answered by us physical beings. Anyone who "knows" one way or the other is a fool or a con artist.

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blackngold29

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#13 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.
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gobo212

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#14 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
Why should I base my life off of things like "gut feelings?"
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PlasmaBeam44

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#15 PlasmaBeam44
Member since 2007 • 9052 Posts
No.
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flowerif

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#16 flowerif
Member since 2006 • 130 Posts
Me...I really don't give a...To me he's just some consiousness that someone told other people was special to get rich or something... If he does exist than rape me sideways... But still for some reason this is a big world issue and is the cuase of many deaths... Some people just expose this to get monney, and some just belive... If you belive and you're happy, just keep on going beliveing that someone is there either helping you with your life or controling it...but still...
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bman784

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#17 bman784
Member since 2004 • 6755 Posts
To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.blackngold29

No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.
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blackngold29

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#18 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
Why should I base my life off of things like "gut feelings?"gobo212
I said its "like a gut feeling". You're allowed to explore what other people think and why.
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blackngold29

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#19 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.bman784

No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?

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Raged-wolverine

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#20 Raged-wolverine
Member since 2005 • 6075 Posts
let me ask him...:P
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deactivated-5e97585ea928c

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#21 deactivated-5e97585ea928c
Member since 2006 • 8521 Posts

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.blackngold29


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?

Then they agnostic would they.
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Aradae2357

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#22 Aradae2357
Member since 2007 • 904 Posts

We aren't trying to dodge the question. You're just trying to condense all the possible answers to such a complex and loaded question into it's two extremes.

I sometimes get feelings that my experiences and the events in my life are carefully crafted and planned by some higher entity but that feeling is not enough throw logic out the window and put my faith in it.

I see all the wheels and gears turn in the laws of physics and life but that doesn't stop from thinking about the possiblity that some great engineer is orchestrating all this.

Your poll options try to seperate us into two categories. People who have faith in a higher power and people who are sure they can refute the existance of said power.

We are neither and our feelings are not even remotely strong enough to support either side.

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gobo212

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#23 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.blackngold29


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?

What does that have to do with metaphysics?

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blackngold29

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#24 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
[QUOTE="blackngold29"]

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.FrostyPhantasm


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?

Then they agnostic would they.

But it was a pretty much globally accepted.
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Aradae2357

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#25 Aradae2357
Member since 2007 • 904 Posts

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.blackngold29


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?

The world is flat according to general relativity.

It just exists in curved space-time. (I think, I could just be making it up)

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bman784

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#26 bman784
Member since 2004 • 6755 Posts

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.blackngold29


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?


Everyone believes things without absolute proof. Nothing has absolute proof. But in order to believe there has to be SOME perceptual proof or a tangible level of actuality. Religion has none, therefore it's a reasonable conjecture to say that you don't believe one way or another.

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CreepingDeath_

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#28 CreepingDeath_
Member since 2007 • 3342 Posts
In my opinion God is just about as realistic as Superman.
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Aradae2357

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#29 Aradae2357
Member since 2007 • 904 Posts
[QUOTE="blackngold29"]

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.bman784


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?


Everyone believes things without absolute proof. Nothing has absolute proof. But in order to believe there has to be SOME perceptual proof or a tangible level of actuality. Religion has none, therefore it's a reasonable conjecture to say that you don't believe one way or another.

except, of course, mathematics

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bman784

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#30 bman784
Member since 2004 • 6755 Posts
[QUOTE="blackngold29"]

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.Aradae2357


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?

The world is flat according to general relativity.

It just exists in curved space-time. ( I think, I might just be making that up)


You kind of are.
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blackngold29

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#31 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
[QUOTE="blackngold29"]

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.bman784


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?


Everyone believes things without absolute proof. Nothing has absolute proof. But in order to believe there has to be SOME perceptual proof or a tangible level of actuality. Religion has none, therefore it's a reasonable conjecture to say that you don't believe one way or another.

So you believe in nothing? You are a skeptic?
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blackngold29

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#32 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
In my opinion God is just about as realistic as Superman.CreepingDeath_
Superman does exist, maybe not as a real guy, but he is real.
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bman784

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#33 bman784
Member since 2004 • 6755 Posts
[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.Aradae2357


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?


Everyone believes things without absolute proof. Nothing has absolute proof. But in order to believe there has to be SOME perceptual proof or a tangible level of actuality. Religion has none, therefore it's a reasonable conjecture to say that you don't believe one way or another.

except, of course, mathematics


True, but mathematics is a conceptual system of measurement and understanding created by humans. There isn't any way it couldn't be true.
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MattUD1

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#34 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
Personally I don't know... I will concede that absolute knowledge about the existance of God is completely unknowable... Agnostic Atheism for the win!
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CreepingDeath_

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#35 CreepingDeath_
Member since 2007 • 3342 Posts

[QUOTE="CreepingDeath_"]In my opinion God is just about as realistic as Superman.blackngold29
Superman does exist, maybe not as a real guy, but he is real.

Then my argument is God exists but not as a real guy or thing or spirit or whatever.

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blackngold29

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#36 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
Personally I don't know... I will concede that absolute knowledge about the existance of God is completely unknowable... Agnostic Atheism for the win!MattUD1
It would appear that you cannot be agnostic atheism, any type of atheism means you don't believe by definition.
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blackngold29

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#37 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="CreepingDeath_"]In my opinion God is just about as realistic as Superman.CreepingDeath_

Superman does exist, maybe not as a real guy, but he is real.

Then my argument is God exists but not as a real guy or thing or spirit or whatever.

So your answer is yes, God does exist?
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CreepingDeath_

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#38 CreepingDeath_
Member since 2007 • 3342 Posts
[QUOTE="CreepingDeath_"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="CreepingDeath_"]In my opinion God is just about as realistic as Superman.blackngold29

Superman does exist, maybe not as a real guy, but he is real.

Then my argument is God exists but not as a real guy or thing or spirit or whatever.

So your answer is yes, God does exist?

I guess it is. But I don't believe in God.

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MattUD1

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#39 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
[QUOTE="MattUD1"]Personally I don't know... I will concede that absolute knowledge about the existance of God is completely unknowable... Agnostic Atheism for the win!blackngold29
It would appear that you cannot be agnostic atheism, any type of atheism means you don't believe by definition.

Atheism: Without God... Agnosticism: Without Knowledge. There can be no proof of God's existance or lack thereof... that's why it's called faith.
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Frattracide

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#40 Frattracide
Member since 2005 • 5395 Posts

I dont really care if there is a deity or not. If there is one, it isn't concerned enough about my actions to intervene. I should live my life to my own benefit because I'm not getting help from anyone else and am ultimately responsible for my actions.

If there is no deity then I should live my life to my own benefit because no one else has the ability to do it and I am ultimately responsible for my actions.

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bman784

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#41 bman784
Member since 2004 • 6755 Posts
[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]To agnostic persons: That seems like you are dodging the question, why couldn't he exist and still be beyond human comprehension? I don't think anybody claims to "know" as in they have proof, it's more like a gut feeling, as I said in my edit of the original post: No one can prove either way.blackngold29


No one can prove anything either way, to clarify. We can't disprove or prove ANYTHING. So for something to exist, there has to exist evidence. A lack of disproof doesn't constitute evidence. Therefore existence beyond human perception is something that doesn't exist by logical standards. Therefore, agnostics have a perfectly reasonable position.

So, you do not believe in anything without absolute proof?

Were there agnostic people who said the world was flat?


Everyone believes things without absolute proof. Nothing has absolute proof. But in order to believe there has to be SOME perceptual proof or a tangible level of actuality. Religion has none, therefore it's a reasonable conjecture to say that you don't believe one way or another.

So you believe in nothing? You are a skeptic?


I'm talking ideology. Ideologically I believe that there are no absolutes, but realistically I judge absolutes based on what I percieve, so I'm not a nihilist. As a scientist, I judge them based on the most reasonable and logical explanations that have evidence to support them. I believe in what human understanding allows me to believe logically, and religion isn't one of those things. Agnosticism is perfectly reasonable in its asserion that it's unclear one way or another.
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s0mepuert0rican

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#42 s0mepuert0rican
Member since 2006 • 358 Posts
IMO if there is a god, its not how the big religions depict "him". god to me is the three major sciences: Physics, Biology, and Chemistry and how they interact perfectly to create the world we live in, and the Universe around us.
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quiglythegreat

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#43 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
I don't think God exists but I'm still kind of agnostic. I think that the whole question of agnosticism does not really relate to what your belief on it is though.
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Junior_AIN

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#44 Junior_AIN
Member since 2007 • 4703 Posts
Voted NO I mean, I've never seen the guy........
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blackngold29

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#45 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
I don't think God exists but I'm still kind of agnostic. I think that the whole question of agnosticism does not really relate to what your belief on it is though.quiglythegreat
It seems to me that you're trying to save face with him, if he is out there.
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Denjin_hadouken

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#46 Denjin_hadouken
Member since 2007 • 5927 Posts
No. Now begone.
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quiglythegreat

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#47 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]I don't think God exists but I'm still kind of agnostic. I think that the whole question of agnosticism does not really relate to what your belief on it is though.blackngold29
It seems to me that you're trying to save face with him, if he is out there.

No, god probably doesn't exist, but because the idea of god is so abstract in the first place, I do not have an evidence that conclusively says 'god isn't real'. I'm assuming it, rather than saying it's fact simply because I have no logical reason to state it as fact. this doesn't mean that I think that theism is logical. I don't really, not the conventional type. It's riddled with logical inconsistencies. I acknowledge that I cannot actively prove theism wrong with hard facts (instead, such arguments must remain grounded in totally abstract supposition) they cannot prove themselves right.
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pintabear49blue

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#48 pintabear49blue
Member since 2007 • 4809 Posts
Does anyone want God to not exist or for there to be nothing after death, because I really do not.
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bman784

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#49 bman784
Member since 2004 • 6755 Posts
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]I don't think God exists but I'm still kind of agnostic. I think that the whole question of agnosticism does not really relate to what your belief on it is though.blackngold29
It seems to me that you're trying to save face with him, if he is out there.


Why is it so hard to accept that people aren't willing to make absolute judgements about things they can't possibly know? Why would he be trying to "save face" if he doesn't accept religion?
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stepnkev

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#50 stepnkev
Member since 2005 • 1511 Posts

Yes, I believe God exists.