Dr.Zakir Naik Proves To Atheists That God Exists

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="7addadster"] Its 99 names :)

sSubZerOo

there are things that cant be discussed in everthing. im an open minded person so ill let myself open to any new idea saying that meat can grow on tress???

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

my advice to muslim brothas....dont use science to prove quran is right. thereis other stuff you can discuss for example the literary masterpiece that is Quran and its epicness that even arab infidels admit or the prophecy that states rome will be defeated by persians but after few years romans will defeat persians...this prophecy came true. Also Quran mentions a city called Iram which was destroyed byGod,some hatersthoughtProphet Mohammed made up thiscity and it actually never existed...well1978 issue of NationGeographicreported about the Tablets found of some kingdom called Ebla, here is what they found in the Tablet...here is a quote from that mag:

"The names of cities thought to have been founded much later, such as Beirut and Byblos, leap from the tablets. Damascus and Gaza are mentioned, as well as two of the Biblical cities of the plain, Sodom and Gomorrah. Also included is lram, an obscure city referred to in Sura 89 of the Koran."

The verse came before that date.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] man this is very very wrong as a muslim. as a muslim, Allah told us in the Qura'an how he created mankind. not through evolution, monkey upgrading, or any other claim, he created us by creating Adam then Eve, and after they disobeyed him, he let moved them to earth and they had children and generations continued the task from there. as a muslim brother i advise you, dont forget, and read more Qura'an. the prophet Mohammed made it clear that doubts are not acceptable, open your mind and heart and dont weaken borther.GazaAli

there are things that cant be discussed in everthing. im an open minded person so ill let myself open to any new idea saying that meat can grow on tress???

I like a clear train of thought. This is all too vague and loose.
Give me the clear way of reasoning so we can see what is most probable.
He jumps from one example to another and doesn't go deep enough.
There are ways to find out most things he said, in ancient history, and even if that were not possible according to us, then You could say that humans wrote all kinds of wild stories. Some of them were bound to be true.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

my advice to muslim brothas....dont use science to prove quran is right. thereis other stuff you can discuss for example the literary masterpiece that is Quran and its epicness that even arab infidels admit or the prophecy that states rome will be defeated by persians but after few years romans will defeat persians...this prophecy came true. Also Quran mentions a city called Iram which was destroyed byGod,some hatersthoughtProphet Mohammed made up thiscity and it actually never existed...well1978 issue of NationGeographicreported about the Tablets found of some kingdom called Ebla, here is what they found in the Tablet...here is a quote from that mag:

"The names of cities thought to have been founded much later, such as Beirut and Byblos, leap from the tablets. Damascus and Gaza are mentioned, as well as two of the Biblical cities of the plain, Sodom and Gomorrah. Also included is lram, an obscure city referred to in Sura 89 of the Koran."

sSubZerOo

Didnt romans suffer defeat in 614 AD? and then Romans started owning in 623 AD? Prophet Mohammed prophecised that would happen....even a pagan arab had a bet with Abu Bakr...he said this would never happen as it was impossible to think at that time that romans will actually defeat persians but it happened and Abu Bakr won the bet and Prophet Mohammeds prophecy came true.

I like a clear train of thought. This is all too vague and loose.
Give me the clear way of reasoning so we can see what is most probable.
He jumps from one example to another and doesn't go deep enough.
There are ways to find out most things he said, in ancient history, and even if that were not possible according to us, then You could say that humans wrote all kinds of wild stories. Some of them were bound to be true.

KungfuKitten

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

my advice to muslim brothas....dont use science to prove quran is right. thereis other stuff you can discuss for example the literary masterpiece that is Quran and its epicness that even arab infidels admit or the prophecy that states rome will be defeated by persians but after few years romans will defeat persians...this prophecy came true. Also Quran mentions a city called Iram which was destroyed byGod,some hatersthoughtProphet Mohammed made up thiscity and it actually never existed...well1978 issue of NationGeographicreported about the Tablets found of some kingdom called Ebla, here is what they found in the Tablet...here is a quote from that mag:

"The names of cities thought to have been founded much later, such as Beirut and Byblos, leap from the tablets. Damascus and Gaza are mentioned, as well as two of the Biblical cities of the plain, Sodom and Gomorrah. Also included is lram, an obscure city referred to in Sura 89 of the Koran."

sikanderahmed

Didnt romans suffer defeat in 614 AD? and then Romans started owning in 623 AD? Prophet Mohammed prophecised that would happen....even a pagan arab had a bet with Abu Bakr...he said this would never happen as it was impossible to think at that time that romans will actually defeat persians but it happened and Abu Bakr won the bet and Prophet Mohammeds prophecy came true.

Patton said the Allies would win WW2.. He also said at the end of WW2 that they should attack Russia because he knew that the USSR would be hostile towards them soon enough.. Did that make him a prophet? NO.

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

I like a clear train of thought. This is all too vague and loose.
Give me the clear way of reasoning so we can see what is most probable.
He jumps from one example to another and doesn't go deep enough.
There are ways to find out most things he said, in ancient history, and even if that were not possible according to us, then You could say that humans wrote all kinds of wild stories. Some of them were bound to be true.

sSubZerOo

He didn't 'prove' anything. He presented no evidence. No one has presented evidence of a God, ever. Evolution, natural selection, physics, mathematics, etc. however have plenty of evidence to back up what they claim and present.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] .. FAIL.. Islam and Quran was founded AFTER yes AFTER the Byzantine- Sassanid war.... The war ranged from 502 to 628 AD.. The Prophet Mohammad didn't even become a prophet intil 610 AD.. sSubZerOo

Didnt romans suffer defeat in 614 AD? and then Romans started owning in 623 AD? Prophet Mohammed prophecised that would happen....even a pagan arab had a bet with Abu Bakr...he said this would never happen as it was impossible to think at that time that romans will actually defeat persians but it happened and Abu Bakr won the bet and Prophet Mohammeds prophecy came true.

Patton said the Allies would win WW2.. He also said at the end of WW2 that they should attack Russia because he knew that the USSR would be hostile towards them soon enough.. Did that make him a prophet? NO.

*facepalm* Romans suffered a massive defeat in 614 and at that time thinking that Romans will actually rise up and in FEW YEARS defeat the persians seemed impossible...which was EXACTLY the reason that pagan wanted a bet with abu bakr because they thought it was impossible for that to happen but Abu bakr was a firm believer who no matter what, believed the prophet so yeah it was a prophecy. PWNED

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

Didnt romans suffer defeat in 614 AD? and then Romans started owning in 623 AD? Prophet Mohammed prophecised that would happen....even a pagan arab had a bet with Abu Bakr...he said this would never happen as it was impossible to think at that time that romans will actually defeat persians but it happened and Abu Bakr won the bet and Prophet Mohammeds prophecy came true.

Patton said the Allies would win WW2.. He also said at the end of WW2 that they should attack Russia because he knew that the USSR would be hostile towards them soon enough.. Did that make him a prophet? NO.

*facepalm* Romans suffered a massive defeat in 614 and at that time thinking that Romans will actually rise up and in FEW YEARS defeat the persians seemed impossible...which was EXACTLY the reason that pagan wanted a bet with abu bakr because they thought it was impossible for that to happen but Abu bakr was a firm believer who no matter what, believed the prophet so yeah it was a prophecy. PWNED

PWNEDsikanderahmed

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]PWNEDMrPraline

You aren't the only one. :/

PWNEDsikanderahmed

Why hasn't this topic been locked yet?

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"] PWNEDSapSacPrime

Well, you did predict the future.

i dont think that athiest "believes" Allah does not exist, because they cant prove it either.i think they choose no to believe because its easier and more convenient to them this way. this is like find a super graphics card and think that it came from nothing.GazaAli

Check your arguments before making them.

No they didn't they suffered defeat before that.. During 611... And they won nearly two decades later.. Thats not a few years buddy.. Maybe if you want to try to argue about something you should actually look up the facts.. Its well with in the lines to call in doubt this was not a divine look into the future.. This was a educated guess based on emperical evidence.. Inless Muhammad lived hundreds of years before this war and called it, than you could argue it.. But yet again you can't because he was during the end of this war and the Romans did make a comeback but it took nearly two decades to do so.. sSubZerOo

*sigh* when the verse was revealed Persian idolaters were owning Romans and the emperical evidence only pointed towards a persian win not Romans. Here is the verse:

"The Roman Empire has been defeated in a land close by; but they, even after this defeat, will gain victory in a few years. Allah's is the command, in the past and in the future. On that day shall the believers rejoice, with the help of Allah, He helps whom He wills. And He is the mighty and the most Merciful. It is the promise of Allah. Allah never departs from His promise: but most men understand not. They crave for the outer things of life, but of the hereafter they are heedless."

Also yes the Romans suffered defeat in 611 but didnt Heraclius start a major counter-attack 2 years later? in which they were also defeated? it was these times when this verse was revealed, when romans were getting badly owned and you're telling me that it was a well educated guess that Romans will be victorious again within few years (within 10 years to be precise) :lol: Romans were almost completely destroyed at this time. This was indeed a great prophecy

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]i dont think that athiest "believes" Allah does not exist, because they cant prove it either.i think they choose no to believe because its easier and more convenient to them this way. this is like find a super graphics card and think that it came from nothing.Okknull

Check your arguments before making them.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"] PWNEDSapSacPrime

hell naw....theres a difference...the horse you picked, if he lost then you really wouldnt lose much now would ya? if Prophet Mohammed lost then everything he would have ever fought for would have been exposed as bull****...infact he wouldnt have even made that prophecy if he was just "guessing" hehehe

hell naw....theres a difference...the horse you picked, if he lost then you really wouldnt lose much now would ya? if Prophet Mohammed lost then everything he would have ever fought for would have been exposed as bull****...infact he wouldnt have even made that prophecy if he was just "guessing" hehehe

sikanderahmed

So the threat of being called a fraud if you get a 50/50 bet wrong means that if you get it right, you were divinely inspired?

i check them well, and you choose to ignore them, its your call anyway. we all die someday and know the truth. i will die, you will die and we all will know whether we were right or not. i petty the one that will be at fault , because i cant imagine what it would be like.GazaAli

The argument being, how is the secular theory of the universe more preposterous than your religious theory? Your theory requires a lot more faith (obviously), and must account for a lot more (the existence of the Universe AND an omnipotent being).

That's your proof?

Brilliant scientists and philosophers are not a modern development.

I didn't watch the whole video, because he more or less is making the same points over and over again.

He says "who could have mentioned 1400 years ago that the shape of the earth is spherical". The ancient greeks proposed that the Earth was likely spherical over 2300 years ago. In fact, all the questions he asked (that I listened to) were answered by ancient scholars long before the Quran was even written.

RearNakedChoke

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

hell naw....theres a difference...the horse you picked, if he lost then you really wouldnt lose much now would ya? if Prophet Mohammed lost then everything he would have ever fought for would have been exposed as bull****...infact he wouldnt have even made that prophecy if he was just "guessing" hehehe

metroidfood

So the threat of being called a fraud if you get a 50/50 bet wrong means that if you get it right, you were divinely inspired?

problem is it wasnt 50/50 :| romans were badly destroyed

I do believe in god, but I believe in the devil as well. Meaning, I do believe that both exist. Ceneb

ofcourse they both exist lol

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]i check them well, and you choose to ignore them, its your call anyway. we all die someday and know the truth. i will die, you will die and we all will know whether we were right or not. i petty the one that will be at fault , because i cant imagine what it would be like.Okknull

The argument being, how is the secular theory of the universe more preposterous than your religious theory? Your theory requires a lot more faith (obviously), and must account for a lot more (the existence of the Universe AND an omnipotent being).

[QUOTE="7addadster"]

[QUOTE="Stesilaus"]

I'm a Muslim. My view on evolution is unsure.

I believe in it, though, especially since one of Allah's 100 names is "The Evolver" (Al-Bari).

But I'm unsure as to what it may imply. But, for the most part, yeah, evolution makes sense.

I try to keep an open mind to every possibility.

GazaAli

Sure, doubts may not be acceptable in Islam, but isn't blind faith without any understanding also considered a sin? Is it also not wrong in Islam to simply go through the motions when you don't believe in everything being told to you. The Quran refers to those people as Munafiqun, the hypocrites. You can't brush something like this off with the usual advice of "read Quran, pray, and make Dua, etc."

If evolution does not exist, do you mind explaining this? :

During the early 1900s, a man named Alexander Fleming discovered the antibiotic penicillin. It was an extremely important discovery because it was able to cure many diseases that we now consider minor and aren't anything to worry about. However back then, those diseases had a very legitimate chance of taking people's lives.

Recently, we have started to note that penicillin isn't as effective as it used to be. Doctors are starting to be forced to prescribe stronger doses or alternative antibiotics because the "miracle cure" isn't working anymore. How can this phenomenom be explained? Well, the germs who couldn't resist the penicillin would die off in great numbers. However, bacteria are amazing when it comes to adapting and changing their DNA and we have seen numerous strains that strongly resist penicillin and other antibiotics.

Now my question to you is if germs can do something like this in a period of less than a hundred years and that the question of their rapid evolution is virtually undisputed, how is it that other lifeforms would somehow be unable to do the same? Although the process would be much slower, how come humans can't evolve or evolve from a previous species? Can somebody explain to me how we are the magical exception to this rule? I have not seen any sufficient responses from anybody thus far.

i dont believe in evolution. i dont believe humans were apes in the first place. GazaAli

and the Qura'an says so too, so no argument here. GazaAli

we dont see bacteria becomes bees, and so we dont see apes become humans. GazaAli

i dont believe in evolution. i dont believe humans were apes in the first place. but i do believe that the earlier humans were bigger, stronger, taller...etc alot of physical facts prove it and the Qura'an says so too, so no argument here. we dont see bacteria becomes bees, and so we dont see apes become humans. GazaAli

Humans did not evolve from apes, and the reason we don't see bacteria become bees (or apes become humans) is because evolution TAKES A LONG TIME. In fact, longer than the human mind can bare to comprehend. I know you dislike it when people who have limited knowledge of the Qu'ran argue against it, but then why must you do the same thing with evolution? Don't you see how that makes you a hypocrite?

Ali, show me a one verse from the Qur'an that refutes evolution.

Ali, show me a one verse from the Qur'an that refutes evolution.

ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] i dont believe in evolution. i dont believe humans were apes in the first place. but i do believe that the earlier humans were bigger, stronger, taller...etc alot of physical facts prove it and the Qura'an says so too, so no argument here. we dont see bacteria becomes bees, and so we dont see apes become humans. Okknull

Humans did not evolve from apes, and the reason we don't see bacteria become bees (or apes become humans) is because evolution TAKES A LONG TIME. In fact, longer than the human mind can bare to comprehend. I know you dislike it when people who have limited knowledge of the Qu'ran argue against it, but then why must you do the same thing with evolution? Don't you see how that makes you a hypocrite?

what i meant and what islam and the prophet Mohamed say, dont think and analyze too much, otherwise the devil will make its way to you and ruin your faith.GazaAli

In otherwords "Don't question what we say, obey, obey, obey, obey". Sorry, but I don't think people think and analyze and question nearly enough. It's not their fault no religion holds up to intense scrutiny. It's that kind of stuff, being afraid to question because I was brainwashed as a kid into believing questioning god and the bible would get me sent to hell, that held me back for so many years of my life. I will never give up my right to question, think, and analyze ever again. Those things are the worst enemy of organized religion, and they know it.

also, im not a hypocrite, simply because i dont believe in evolution doesnt make me so. GazaAli

you mentioned the example of bacteria evolving. a common since is that as a creature becomes more complicated and go higher in the ladder of creatures, it takes more time to evolve and change. this means that bacteria should have the ability to change dramatically in a short span of time, which does not happen. i cant explain my thoughts well because this is pretty complicated to say in english, but i believe that creatures evolve inside thier own species. i mean apes evovle into different apes, not into humans, and bacteria evovles into other bacteria not into bees.GazaAli

Ali, show me a one verse from the Qur'an that refutes evolution.

ghoklebutter

you dont understand arabic, and i dont like translating the Qura'an to enlgish, because the Qura'an loses much of its meaning when translated into any other language. but in several versus, Allah talks about the creation of Adam, and how Allah values him over all other creatures, and in the Qura'an, the phases of the creation of Adam is presented, in addition to the phases of the creation of any human kind. all of these tell me nothing about human came from apes.

all of these tell me nothing about human came from apes.GazaAli

this is getting us nowhere, bottom line: im wrong, islam is a hoax and evolution is the answer. i really dont have a problem with evolution believers and atheists , because eventually i will die, so will you, and we all will see with our own eyes what was wrong and what was right. when this time comes, i really doubt evolution, enjoying life, evidence, science can do anything to you.

im going to bed btw, its getting late here, so good night everybody.

This thread is funny. Everyone needs to relax and quit shoving things down eachothers throats.

this is getting us nowhere, bottom line: im wrong, islam is a hoax and evolution is the answer. i really dont have a problem with evolution believers and atheists , because eventually i will die, so will you, and we all will see with our own eyes what was wrong and what was right. when this time comes, i really doubt evolution, enjoying life, evidence, science can do anything to you.GazaAli

Hullo, WHAT?!?!?

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="Ingenemployee"]

And you would be wrong.

Ingenemployee

He may be, but isn't it true that having no religion is easy and convenient?

Hell no, its more easy and convenient to be religious, all you guys have to say is, God did it, we have to explain how it works.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]what i meant and what islam and the prophet Mohamed say, dont think and analyze too much, otherwise the devil will make its way to you and ruin your faith.ViewtifulScott

In otherwords "Don't question what we say, obey, obey, obey, obey". Sorry, but I don't think people think and analyze and question nearly enough. It's not their fault no religion holds up to intense scrutiny. It's that kind of stuff, being afraid to question because I was brainwashed as a kid into believing questioning god and the bible would get me sent to hell, that held me back for so many years of my life. I will never give up my right to question, think, and analyze ever again. Those things are the worst enemy of organized religion, and they know it.

You can ask questions, but unless you want to apostate, don't place doubt in Islam.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] [QUOTE="Okknull"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] i dont believe in evolution. i dont believe humans were apes in the first place. but i do believe that the earlier humans were bigger, stronger, taller...etc alot of physical facts prove it and the Qura'an says so too, so no argument here. we dont see bacteria becomes bees, and so we dont see apes become humans. GazaAli

Humans did not evolve from apes, and the reason we don't see bacteria become bees (or apes become humans) is because evolution TAKES A LONG TIME. In fact, longer than the human mind can bare to comprehend. I know you dislike it when people who have limited knowledge of the Qu'ran argue against it, but then why must you do the same thing with evolution? Don't you see how that makes you a hypocrite?

I think this topic is pretty much dead, BlumFluff.

i didnt mean to have a "blind" faith. i meant and i believe that dont question the basics of your faith, otherwise its useless. Islam and Qura'an are the sources of my faith and belief in Allah and they mention alot of examples and proofs of Allah existence and Perfection. Islam and the Qura'an order me to believe in certain things and facts and provide proofs for the mind too. but what i meant and what islam and the prophet Mohamed say, dont think and analyze too much, otherwise the devil will make its way to you and ruin your faith. i believe a human mind is capable of alot of things, but there are things that we just cant understand and will screw our minds. for example try to imagine that the universe is boundless, your mind will go blank after thinking about it for a few seconds. also, dont state things you dont know about. Almunafiq is someone who says with his tongue " i believe in Allah and Mohamed" but in his hear he denies them. Nifaaq (hypocrisy) is degrees. one degree is to literally dont believe in Allah and mohamed in your heart but just say it with your tongue, which is the worst level nifaaq and will get you to the lowest level of hell. the least level is when you believe in Allah and Mohamed, but do things that contradict this beliefe, like relying on people, asking them for help, being afraid of someone else ...etc i dont believe in evolution. i dont believe humans were apes in the first place. but i do believe that the earlier humans were bigger, stronger, taller...etc alot of physical facts prove it and the Qura'an says so too, so no argument here. we dont see bacteria becomes bees, and so we dont see apes become humans. GazaAli

Okay, I'm not an Arabic speaker, sorry for the mistake in terminology. My point, however, still stands. You still have not provided me with a satisfactory explanation. You stated that you believe that there are many examples that prove the existence of Allah and affirm Muhammad's prophethood, the Quran states very openly that it is a perfect book and that you will find no faults in it.

So now, the question remains. If there is even one thing (such as evolution) that shows that something in the Quran is false, would I be incorrect in saying that said fact would disprove everything about the miracle of the Quran and its said divinity? When I bring this point up to Muslims, they either give me answers that make very little sense (such as humans are exempt from evolution) or something similar to what you said like "Don't question the teachings of Islam because it is Haram and you will go to Hell." To me, that kind of answer comes off as an excuse that is a) Showing that you can't come up with a sufficient answer to refute my points and b) You want me to believe everything people tell me to. Honestly, this sounds a lot like brainwashing to me. Sure, my brain may not be able to comprehend everything that exists in the universe, but then why should I unconventionally believe that Muhammad or the Quran (which could possibly be a human creation) know better than I do? Your thinking is very illogical and bizarre to me. You stated that you didn't mean to have blind faith, but then you also tell me not to question or analyze what Islam tells me.

I also think that you have a huge misconception of the theory of evolution. It does not say that humans evolve from apes or birds from bees, etc. What it says is that there are many mutations and differences that exist within the members of a species. Some members of the species are more adapted to a certain environment than others because of certain genes or characteristics that they contain. Those animals that are well adapted to their environments are more likely likely to survive and live on to produce many offspring. Over a period of millions of years, those well-adapted animals will outcompete the other members of the species until they are the only ones left. Another scenario is when members of a species are split by some sort of environmental barrier. The two groups of that species will have different environmental obstacles to overcome and therefore, different skills will be required in the two environments to survive. As stated before, the ones who are the best adapted to their environments will survive and the rest will likely die. After an extremely long period of time, those two groups of the same species become so different from each other both physically and genetically that they can no longer reproduce together and are now c1assified as different species.

this is getting us nowhere, bottom line: im wrong, islam is a hoax and evolution is the answer. i really dont have a problem with evolution believers and atheists , because eventually i will die, so will you, and we all will see with our own eyes what was wrong and what was right. when this time comes, i really doubt evolution, enjoying life, evidence, science can do anything to you.

im going to bed btw, its getting late here, so good night everybody.