Economics: Minimum Wage

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]Minimum wage has to exist so long as inflation exists. Otherwise the poor people and less connected parts of the country would starve every time our money decreased in value. Cons are that you have fewer jobs available, but again that would only be a con until the people starved and died out because they couldn't afford food and healthcare.thegerg

Still, if there were no inflation, everyone would know how much it would cost to live at different levels of wealth. People would know exactly how much they'd need to get by. It would be much easier.

Minimum wage is directly tied to inflation. It also doesn't allow an employer to punish lazy or poor workers.Zeviander

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] So if inflation stops there should be no minimum wage?thegerg

Still, if there were no inflation, everyone would know how much it would cost to live at different levels of wealth. People would know exactly how much they'd need to get by. It would be much easier.

Edit: People arguing about it from a free market perspective need to open their eyes to the fact that we are not in a free market.  Subsidies are currently the way of things so we need to think about how to fix what we have.  That's kind of like complaining about the Klingons being rude while walking through Disneyworld.  Let's focus on the reality we currently live in.

[QUOTE="JML897"][QUOTE="dave123321"]About increasing/decreasing/deletinggamerguru100

Minimum wage is directly tied to inflation. It also doesn't allow an employer to punish lazy or poor workers.Zeviander

.. Except you know, fire them.  In right to work states a employer can fire a employee for anything..   So I have no clue what your talking about what so ever.. 

Lowering minimum wage would increase the poverty level.

Increasing the poverty level would drain the system even faster then it already is.

Except you know, fire them.sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Except you know, fire them.Zeviander

:|  ?  Where? Unions make up a small % of the workforce now and have been attacked on all sides.. 

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Except you know, fire them.sSubZerOo

:|  ?  Where? Unions make up a small % of the workforce now and have been attacked on all sides.. 

Where? sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] The Federal reserve does control minimum wage-- not directly, but with inflation they do. the dollar loses value annually, but people don't get raises to counter-react that inflation. Fightingfan

*The bad part is unless you have money you can't take advantage of the downward spikes of interest rates. Only helps the already rich, or financially established.

Maybe there needs to be a maximum wage. 

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Except you know, fire them.sSubZerOo

:|  ?  Where? Unions make up a small % of the workforce now and have been attacked on all sides.. 

Minimum wage is directly tied to inflation.Zeviander

[QUOTE="Zeviander"]Minimum wage is directly tied to inflation.coolbeans90

Need to think of my next economics threaddave123321

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Need to think of my next economics threadmattbbpl

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="dave123321"]Need to think of my next economics threaddave123321

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Zeviander"]Minimum wage is directly tied to inflation.Abbeten

jelly

studying for a mean midterm atm

Teacher vs athlete salaries seems to be a good next topicdave123321

midterm in what?dave123321

intermediate dynamics

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Teacher vs athlete salaries seems to be a good next topicFightingfan

People need to do a little research before making arguments about minimum wage

Here are the facts:

• People are more likely to be working for something below minimum wage than at it. 
• People working Part Time are 5 times more likely to be at or below minimum wage (and this does not include full time salaried people)
• Teenagers make up 25% of the people making at or below minimum wage, but only make up 5% of the labor force
• People under 24 make up over half of minimum wage earners, but are only 20% of the labor force. 

We need to figure out a way to actually enfore the law before trying to increase minimum wage, because increasing it will just push more people into the "below minimum wage " category.

Also, it is likely that increases in minimum wage will cause many part time workers to get fewer hours and make it harder for teens and early 20s people who have no marketable skills to get jobs to develop those marketable skills (groups wich have 25% and 13% respecivly, which is well above average)

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011tbls.htm

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Teacher vs athlete salaries seems to be a good next topicFightingfan

[QUOTE="dave123321"]midterm in what?coolbeans90

intermediate dynamics

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

The arguments against minimum wage are mostly retarded and seem to ignore that even though cost of living and food have risen, the minimum wage has remained stagnant.

Pirate700

The hardest work I've ever done was actually for less than minimum wage, but I'm not complaining about that because I was not doing that job to make money.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="dave123321"]midterm in what?dave123321

intermediate dynamics

def my hardest course this semester

should be okay tho

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Hello guys. So been hearing a lot about minimum wage lately. About increasing/decreasing/deleting, and it got me to wondering what this whole debate is about. So OT can have a nice and civil debate about the economic consequences of the minimum wage and how changing it will effect different groups(different workers and employers). So questions to think about: What is minimum wage? How does it effect a company's choices in terms of employing people? What is supply and demand all about? Benfits of minimum wage? Cons? How does this affect average wage? Hopefully our budding OTconimists can figure this out for us. comp_atkins

So... say I make $3 over min wage... if it goes up to $12 will my pay go up to $15?jeremiah06

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"]So... say I make $3 over min wage... if it goes up to $12 will my pay go up to $15?lo_Pine

his wage will go up, though it might not go up by 3 bucks.

If his company is trying to employ higher quality workers by offering wages above the minimum wage... then they will continue to do so when the minimum wage is increased.

So... say I make $3 over min wage... if it goes up to $12 will my pay go up to $15?jeremiah06

no.

People need to do a little research before making arguments about minimum wage

Here are the facts:

• People are more likely to be working for something below minimum wage than at it. 
• People working Part Time are 5 times more likely to be at or below minimum wage (and this does not include full time salaried people)
• Teenagers make up 25% of the people making at or below minimum wage, but only make up 5% of the labor force
• People under 24 make up over half of minimum wage earners, but are only 20% of the labor force. 

 

We need to figure out a way to actually enfore the law before trying to increase minimum wage, because increasing it will just push more people into the "below minimum wage " category.

Also, it is likely that increases in minimum wage will cause many part time workers to get fewer hours and make it harder for teens and early 20s people who have no marketable skills to get jobs to develop those marketable skills (groups wich have 25% and 13% respecivly, which is well above average)

 

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011tbls.htm

Jacobistheman

wait how are people working at below the minimum wage? assuming they are legal citizens working for a legal business?

The argument is that it raises the unemployment rate because more people supply their labor than firms demand from them. There are people who would be willing to work at a wage lower than the minimum and those people don't get a job if there are minimum wage laws. In other words, it raises the equilibrium price of labor in the job market. Although, the only people really affected by the minimum wage are teenagers and low skilled workers who make up a small percent of the labor force. So in reality the minimum wage doesn't affect unemployment very much.lo_Pine

the argument that it raises unemployment is a false argument. As it assumes well managed businesses hire "luxury employees" aka employees they dont need, but just hire because they can afford to.

In reality every business hires the minimum amount of employees possible. If you raise the minimum wage... they will still require the same number of employees to service demand, they will just have to pay some of their employees more.

During the bottom of the recession there may have been a valid argument that fragile companies on the verge of bankruptcies could be be pushed past the breaking point and forced out of business. But now that GDP is no longer shrinking, and is growing... that argument is not valid.

The reality is, that a higher minimum wage would simply put more money in the hands of the consumer, thus increasing demand... which would lead to more hiring and lower unemployment.

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

People need to do a little research before making arguments about minimum wage

Here are the facts:

• People are more likely to be working for something below minimum wage than at it. 
• People working Part Time are 5 times more likely to be at or below minimum wage (and this does not include full time salaried people)
• Teenagers make up 25% of the people making at or below minimum wage, but only make up 5% of the labor force
• People under 24 make up over half of minimum wage earners, but are only 20% of the labor force. 

 

We need to figure out a way to actually enfore the law before trying to increase minimum wage, because increasing it will just push more people into the "below minimum wage " category.

Also, it is likely that increases in minimum wage will cause many part time workers to get fewer hours and make it harder for teens and early 20s people who have no marketable skills to get jobs to develop those marketable skills (groups wich have 25% and 13% respecivly, which is well above average)

 

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011tbls.htm

BeardMaster

wait how are people working at below the minimum wage? assuming they are legal citizens working for a legal business?

Man, this is such a tough question. I think my opinion is this: Having a minimum wage is not inherently bad... we need some sort of standard of fairness so employers dont abuse workers. Also, with the rising costs of living, it should keep raising.

But I also dont disagree with the fact that the more you pay people, the less people you hire.. we also can't devalue the hell out of the dollar by giving everyone 20$/hr jobs. Maybe we're at a time in the USA where it does need to increase. In MA its 8.00$. You can barely support yourself on that amount of money, in the most frugal of living conditions. It's pretty close to impossible. 

Ive seen some people argue that "Youre not supposed to support a family on minimum wage". Then why is minimum wage even a thing, if it's useless? That doesn't make sense. We all know that some people just do not have the opportunity for better pay. If youre stuck in food service, what do you do?

Its a mess.

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

People need to do a little research before making arguments about minimum wage

Here are the facts:

• People are more likely to be working for something below minimum wage than at it. 
• People working Part Time are 5 times more likely to be at or below minimum wage (and this does not include full time salaried people)
• Teenagers make up 25% of the people making at or below minimum wage, but only make up 5% of the labor force
• People under 24 make up over half of minimum wage earners, but are only 20% of the labor force. 

 

We need to figure out a way to actually enfore the law before trying to increase minimum wage, because increasing it will just push more people into the "below minimum wage " category.

Also, it is likely that increases in minimum wage will cause many part time workers to get fewer hours and make it harder for teens and early 20s people who have no marketable skills to get jobs to develop those marketable skills (groups wich have 25% and 13% respecivly, which is well above average)

 

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011tbls.htm

Jacobistheman

wait how are people working at below the minimum wage? assuming they are legal citizens working for a legal business?

Well thats a red herring and a piss poor argument.

Thats like saying we shouldnt make bath salts illegal, until we can better enforce existing drug laws and wipe out the current crop of drugs deemed illegal.

Black markets always exist, should we have better enforcement? probably. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt address legal businesses in the meantime.

[QUOTE="dave123321"]About increasing/decreasing/deletingJML897

Some people argue that the free market will do a better job of maintaining wage levels. They are of course clinically insane.

Mind you I haven't taken economics in a while.

Man, this is such a tough question. I think my opinion is this: Having a minimum wage is not inherently bad... we need some sort of standard of fairness so employers dont abuse workers. Also, with the rising costs of living, it should keep raising.

But I also dont disagree with the fact that the more you pay people, the less people you hire.. we also can't devalue the hell out of the dollar by giving everyone 20$/hr jobs. Maybe we're at a time in the USA where it does need to increase. In MA its 8.00$. You can barely support yourself on that amount of money, in the most frugal of living conditions. It's pretty close to impossible. 

Ive seen some people argue that "Youre not supposed to support a family on minimum wage". Then why is minimum wage even a thing, if it's useless? That doesn't make sense. We all know that some people just do not have the opportunity for better pay. If youre stuck in food service, what do you do?

 

Its a mess.

Shmiity

You should disagree with the fact that the more you pay people... the less you hire.

If you own a muffin shop, and your customers want to buy 500 muffins a day and a baker can produce 100 muffins a day, how many bakers will you hire?

how many bakers will you hire if the minimum wage is $1? how many bakers will you hire if the minimum wage is $15? You will hire 5 bakers regardless.