Family Guy Has Run Out Of Ideas

  • 104 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Squall18
Squall18

3756

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#51 Squall18
Member since 2004 • 3756 Posts

The first 3 seasons was where it was at.

/end thread

Avatar image for Wozmcfc
Wozmcfc

1504

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#52 Wozmcfc
Member since 2007 • 1504 Posts
But what will happen to the manatees? :cry:
Avatar image for stevenk4k5
stevenk4k5

5608

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#53 stevenk4k5
Member since 2005 • 5608 Posts
I'll admit that I don't watch Family Guy as much as I used to but I still enjoy the randomness of the show and its flashbacks.
Avatar image for MetalGear_Ninty
MetalGear_Ninty

6337

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#54 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts

How is that elitism?

When a show has been reduced to predictable plot lines and overused stale jokes how is it elitist to call it out on its own flaws?

Family guy is lazy writing. A show should make you say "i really like those characters!" "I relate to their struggels!" "Wow thats some good satire!"

How many hanna barbara characters are they going to show in illogical scenarios? They aren't even putting them in ways that would make sense to the characters world its just "OH lets throw optimus prime in and make a joke about him being gay LOLZ!

Robot chicken does nothing but skit humor but the humor is always realvent to the characters and the stop frame animation has heart. Thats an example of good writing as well as a sense of stylishness.

Family Guy is to South Park as Mad Tv is to SNL

peppersfan2

Comedy isn't always relevant in a dramatic sense, therefore critcisms of character development and personal struggle is invalid unless of course you are expectant of your comedies to provide a meaningful discourse with the viewer.

The only requirement of any comedy is too make the viewer laugh whilst maintaining a relative level of decency. If not, then sorry but I think you are setting your expectations a bit too high.

Avatar image for SouL-Tak3R
SouL-Tak3R

4024

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#55 SouL-Tak3R
Member since 2005 • 4024 Posts
People disect things too much. Just enjoy it. I love the show still. I have no idea what you guys are talking about that is isn't good anymore. It is family Guy, known for being so weird and random. That is why it is funny.
Avatar image for -TheSecondSign-
-TheSecondSign-

9303

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#56 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9303 Posts

Family Guy has sucked since...ever.

I stopped finding the idea of aborted fetuses singing and dancing funny. Maybe that's just me though.

Avatar image for MetalGear_Ninty
MetalGear_Ninty

6337

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#57 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts

Family Guy has sucked since...ever.

I stopped finding the idea of aborted fetuses singing and dancing funny. Maybe that's just me though.

-TheSecondSign-
If you were are referring to what I think you are -- Prom Night Dumpster Baby, then it wasn't aborted, or else how could it be singing and dancing? :?
Avatar image for KOTORkicker
KOTORkicker

4595

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#58 KOTORkicker
Member since 2007 • 4595 Posts

Well I think it had a good 2 years at first. Now it's just.. Meh. But it would seem that there is an audience still out there for that kind of humour. Otherwise it would no longer exist.

King Of The Hill is living proof of this.

Avatar image for -TheSecondSign-
-TheSecondSign-

9303

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#59 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9303 Posts
[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]

Family Guy has sucked since...ever.

I stopped finding the idea of aborted fetuses singing and dancing funny. Maybe that's just me though.

MetalGear_Ninty

If you were are referring to what I think you are -- Prom Night Dumpster Baby, then it wasn't aborted, or else how could it be singing and dancing? :?

Right, whatever. Forgot.

Bottom line is it wasn't funny, and it never will be. Next time they can just make jokes about how insurgents like to tie kids to church walls and cut their hands and feet off.

Avatar image for MetalGear_Ninty
MetalGear_Ninty

6337

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#60 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts
[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]

Family Guy has sucked since...ever.

I stopped finding the idea of aborted fetuses singing and dancing funny. Maybe that's just me though.

-TheSecondSign-

If you were are referring to what I think you are -- Prom Night Dumpster Baby, then it wasn't aborted, or else how could it be singing and dancing? :?

Right, whatever. Forgot.

Bottom line is it wasn't funny, and it never will be. Next time they can just make jokes about how insurgents like to tie kids to church walls and cut their hands and feet off.

I don't know, I found it quite funny to be honest.
Avatar image for tccavey2
tccavey2

1559

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#61 tccavey2
Member since 2007 • 1559 Posts

I agree. Last nights episode made me and my roomates laugh maybe once (when Peter and Quagmire fight).

The new season is so unbelievably terrible...

Avatar image for FragStains
FragStains

20668

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#62 FragStains
Member since 2003 • 20668 Posts

And so goes another pop culture phenomenon. From the pinnacle of critical and mass audience acclaim, to the bowels of the dumpster as soon as the majority begin to dislike it.

Avatar image for iam2green
iam2green

13991

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#63 iam2green
Member since 2007 • 13991 Posts

I think it's hilarious. I watch it almost everyday on TBS.The_Mac_Daddy

yes, thos were the good episodes ow they don't have any good ones atleast this season.

Avatar image for mo0ksi
mo0ksi

12337

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#64 mo0ksi
Member since 2007 • 12337 Posts
[QUOTE="johnnyv2003"]

I thought The Simpsons, and King of the Hill were great last night...but I didn't laugh once at Family Guy, I mean Seth McFarlane is busting out Iraq jokes?? I remember when Family Guy used to be ahead of the curve comedically speaking, but it was way behind last night.

The Simpson's Tree House of Horror was hilarious, and I loved King of the Hill's spoof about MySpace

freshgman

yeah king of the hill was good. too bad it was cancelled

Yeah that really upset me. It had a great run, but I'd much prefer Family Guy being cancelled because there's no substance in that show anymore.
Avatar image for Sajo7
Sajo7

14049

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#65 Sajo7
Member since 2005 • 14049 Posts
They ran out of ideas when they brought the show back. Brian has turned into a anti-Bush comedian and Stewie is just random at this point.
Avatar image for Sajo7
Sajo7

14049

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#66 Sajo7
Member since 2005 • 14049 Posts

And so goes another pop culture phenomenon. From the pinnacle of critical and mass audience acclaim, to the bowels of the dumpster as soon as the majority begin to dislike it.

FragStains

The first three seasons are good examples of absurd humor done right...but you can't rely on that forever.

Avatar image for links136
links136

2400

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#67 links136
Member since 2004 • 2400 Posts
[QUOTE="FragStains"]

And so goes another pop culture phenomenon. From the pinnacle of critical and mass audience acclaim, to the bowels of the dumpster as soon as the majority begin to dislike it.

Sajo7

The first three seasons are good examples of absurd humor done right...but you can't rely on that forever.

The thing they did was actually you know, make it relevent to the plot.

Personally, Invader Zim is still my favorite. Too bad it was too dark to be a childrens cartoon....

Avatar image for Dollar75
Dollar75

718

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 43

User Lists: 0

#68 Dollar75
Member since 2006 • 718 Posts

I think its still good. It makes me laugh out loud alot more than the Simpsons. That has a few moments of smile-worthy comedy, but thats it.

P.S. The bird is the word!!!

Avatar image for higgydiggy
higgydiggy

984

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#69 higgydiggy
Member since 2006 • 984 Posts
family guy never had ideas to begin with
Avatar image for Video_Game_King
Video_Game_King

27545

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 28

User Lists: 0

#70 Video_Game_King
Member since 2003 • 27545 Posts
They've been out of ideas for quite some time. Hell, they kinda proved that with the Nazi McCain/Palin badge. "Oooh, we implied they're Nazi's, we're SOOOO cutting edge!" A better joke would have been to "reflect" on Obama's days as a hobo, and then use actual voice clips of him talking about change.
Avatar image for TheOddQuantum
TheOddQuantum

2472

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#71 TheOddQuantum
Member since 2008 • 2472 Posts
I still think it's rather funny. But it is true, some of the bits are just too long and repetitive. Like that "the bird is the word" episode.
Avatar image for deepdreamer256
deepdreamer256

7140

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 34

User Lists: 0

#72 deepdreamer256
Member since 2005 • 7140 Posts
 At the same time, green is grass in soviet russia.
Avatar image for SuperVegeta518
SuperVegeta518

5960

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#73 SuperVegeta518
Member since 2005 • 5960 Posts
Yeah. It hasn't been good for at least two years. At least last season made me laugh a little bit. This season got maybe one "sort of a laugh" out of me. Maybe I'm just too old for it now.
Avatar image for kemar7856
kemar7856

11789

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 20

User Lists: 0

#74 kemar7856
Member since 2004 • 11789 Posts
yes overrated show yesterday they sang some song for like 3 mins
Avatar image for peppersfan2
peppersfan2

1064

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#75 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts
[QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

How is that elitism?

When a show has been reduced to predictable plot lines and overused stale jokes how is it elitist to call it out on its own flaws?

Family guy is lazy writing. A show should make you say "i really like those characters!" "I relate to their struggels!" "Wow thats some good satire!"

How many hanna barbara characters are they going to show in illogical scenarios? They aren't even putting them in ways that would make sense to the characters world its just "OH lets throw optimus prime in and make a joke about him being gay LOLZ!

Robot chicken does nothing but skit humor but the humor is always realvent to the characters and the stop frame animation has heart. Thats an example of good writing as well as a sense of stylishness.

Family Guy is to South Park as Mad Tv is to SNL

MetalGear_Ninty

Comedy isn't always relevant in a dramatic sense, therefore critcisms of character development and personal struggle is invalid unless of course you are expectant of your comedies to provide a meaningful discourse with the viewer.

The only requirement of any comedy is too make the viewer laugh whilst maintaining a relative level of decency. If not, then sorry but I think you are setting your expectations a bit too high.

A show doesn't suck because of its random humor. Family Guy's format is runing out of steam. When I refrenced Robot Chicken I was giving an example of "good" random humor where as family guy just sucks.

Look at SuperJail or Aqua Teen Hunger Force random humor related to the plot. Look at robot chicken random humor with no plot. They all make me laugh where as family guy is just manufactured humor with no artistic depth. I'm not asking for family guy to have a story line I'm just asking for it to not suck. Robot chickens use of action figures gives a personal touch. Family guys art design is so sterile and cookie cutter I cant stand it!

Avatar image for peppersfan2
peppersfan2

1064

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#76 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

yes overrated show yesterday they sang some song for like 3 minskemar7856

YES!!! That joke was funny when they first did it beause it was like "okay this is kinda stupid but its funny how their dragging it out." It wasn't funny the next 30 times they did it.

That joke is meant to be funny not through content but by pestering the viewer into laughing because its purposly stupid. That stops being funny fast.

Avatar image for MetalGear_Ninty
MetalGear_Ninty

6337

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#77 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts
[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

How is that elitism?

When a show has been reduced to predictable plot lines and overused stale jokes how is it elitist to call it out on its own flaws?

Family guy is lazy writing. A show should make you say "i really like those characters!" "I relate to their struggels!" "Wow thats some good satire!"

How many hanna barbara characters are they going to show in illogical scenarios? They aren't even putting them in ways that would make sense to the characters world its just "OH lets throw optimus prime in and make a joke about him being gay LOLZ!

Robot chicken does nothing but skit humor but the humor is always realvent to the characters and the stop frame animation has heart. Thats an example of good writing as well as a sense of stylishness.

Family Guy is to South Park as Mad Tv is to SNL

peppersfan2

Comedy isn't always relevant in a dramatic sense, therefore critcisms of character development and personal struggle is invalid unless of course you are expectant of your comedies to provide a meaningful discourse with the viewer.

The only requirement of any comedy is too make the viewer laugh whilst maintaining a relative level of decency. If not, then sorry but I think you are setting your expectations a bit too high.

I never said that the show sucks because of its random humor. I said that its format is runing out of steam. When I refrenced Robot Chicken I was giving an example of "good" random humor where as family guy just sucks.

Look at SuperJail or Aqua Teen Hunger Force random humor related to the plot. Look at robot chicken random humor with no plot. They all make me laugh where as family guy is just manufactured humor with no artistic depth. I'm not asking for family guy to have a story line I'm just asking for it to not suck. Robot chickens use of action figures gives a personal touch. Family guys art design is so sterile and cookie cutter I cant stand it!

A lot of what you're saying is subjective opinions, from which many people disagree. Whilst you may not find it funny, quite a lot of people do.

You may find that Family Guy has no depth, but I think a lot of the jokes used in the series is very cleverly implemented, and actually really intelligent when you try to configure why they've been constructed in the way it has.

Avatar image for uncledeath2005
uncledeath2005

5890

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#78 uncledeath2005
Member since 2005 • 5890 Posts
I have never really liked it...for the most part it is really boring.
Avatar image for M3RC3tHeShOoTeR
M3RC3tHeShOoTeR

916

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#79 M3RC3tHeShOoTeR
Member since 2008 • 916 Posts
they have been making fillers since day one with random fight scenes and peter always getting hurt and having him sit for a min or 2 going "shhhhhh owwww...........shhhhhhhh owwwwwww...."ect.
Avatar image for taj7575
taj7575

12084

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

#80 taj7575
Member since 2008 • 12084 Posts
it ran outta ideas .... around 2007.
Avatar image for Gh0st_Of_0nyx
Gh0st_Of_0nyx

8992

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#81 Gh0st_Of_0nyx
Member since 2007 • 8992 Posts

Yeah this show clearly should of ended when they were ontop

The jokes arent funny and the storys they come up with arent intresting or comedic.

Avatar image for peppersfan2
peppersfan2

1064

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#82 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts
[QUOTE="peppersfan2"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="peppersfan2"]

How is that elitism?

When a show has been reduced to predictable plot lines and overused stale jokes how is it elitist to call it out on its own flaws?

Family guy is lazy writing. A show should make you say "i really like those characters!" "I relate to their struggels!" "Wow thats some good satire!"

How many hanna barbara characters are they going to show in illogical scenarios? They aren't even putting them in ways that would make sense to the characters world its just "OH lets throw optimus prime in and make a joke about him being gay LOLZ!

Robot chicken does nothing but skit humor but the humor is always realvent to the characters and the stop frame animation has heart. Thats an example of good writing as well as a sense of stylishness.

Family Guy is to South Park as Mad Tv is to SNL

MetalGear_Ninty

Comedy isn't always relevant in a dramatic sense, therefore critcisms of character development and personal struggle is invalid unless of course you are expectant of your comedies to provide a meaningful discourse with the viewer.

The only requirement of any comedy is too make the viewer laugh whilst maintaining a relative level of decency. If not, then sorry but I think you are setting your expectations a bit too high.

I never said that the show sucks because of its random humor. I said that its format is runing out of steam. When I refrenced Robot Chicken I was giving an example of "good" random humor where as family guy just sucks.

Look at SuperJail or Aqua Teen Hunger Force random humor related to the plot. Look at robot chicken random humor with no plot. They all make me laugh where as family guy is just manufactured humor with no artistic depth. I'm not asking for family guy to have a story line I'm just asking for it to not suck. Robot chickens use of action figures gives a personal touch. Family guys art design is so sterile and cookie cutter I cant stand it!

A lot of what you're saying is subjective opinions, from which many people disagree. Whilst you may not find it funny, quite a lot of people do.

You may find that Family Guy has no depth, but I think a lot of the jokes used in the series is very cleverly implemented, and actually really intelligent when you try to configure why they've been constructed in the way it has.

Alot of it is opinion but that doesn't mean that critical anaysis holds no merit. Family guy makes me laugh but its decaying fast. The jokes ARE being repeated and the show is using alot of filler. Family guy has had many smart jokes but not as many anymore. American Dad had razor sharp satire but now thats gone.

Avatar image for MetalGear_Ninty
MetalGear_Ninty

6337

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#83 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts

Alot of it is opinion but that doesn't mean that critical anaysis holds no merit. Family guy makes me laugh but its decaying fast. The jokes ARE being repeated and the show is using alot of filler. Family guy has had many smart jokes but not as many anymore. American Dad had razor sharp satire but now thats gone.

peppersfan2
I agree that Family Guy does have a lot of filler, which is probably one of my biggest gripe with the show. :P
Avatar image for _LiquidFlame_
_LiquidFlame_

13736

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#84 _LiquidFlame_
Member since 2007 • 13736 Posts

I agree, that's why I don't watch it.

Avatar image for peppersfan2
peppersfan2

1064

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#85 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts
During his "class day" address at Harvard University on June 7, 2006, Seth McFarlane, in character as Stewie, referred to the "Cartoon Wars" arc with the comment "[...] and TV-shows that seem to think they can skate by with random jokes about giant chickens that have absolutely nothing to do with the overall narrative. The boys at South Park are absolutely correct: those cutaways and flashbacks have nothing to do with the story. They're just there to be 'funny'. That is a shallow indulgence that South Park is quite above, and, for that, I salute them."
Avatar image for epic_pets
epic_pets

5598

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#86 epic_pets
Member since 2008 • 5598 Posts
Still make me laugh.
Avatar image for kerrman
kerrman

2904

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#87 kerrman
Member since 2003 • 2904 Posts
Without even realizing it, I've completely lost interest in Family Guy. It's just the same old stuff over and over, I don't care to catch it on tv anymore.
Avatar image for kemar7856
kemar7856

11789

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 20

User Lists: 0

#88 kemar7856
Member since 2004 • 11789 Posts
the only time family guy made me really laugh was when they made herbert sing the first time
Avatar image for ChiddaPotta
ChiddaPotta

1670

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#89 ChiddaPotta
Member since 2007 • 1670 Posts
Yeah, I can't believe Family Guy is ALREADY like how Simpsons is now.
Avatar image for cs45F
cs45F

1147

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#90 cs45F
Member since 2008 • 1147 Posts
The episode with the song "The bird is the word" almost put me over the edge.
Avatar image for peppersfan2
peppersfan2

1064

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#91 peppersfan2
Member since 2007 • 1064 Posts

The episode with the song "The bird is the word" almost put me over the edge.cs45F

Exactly! When your comedy comes mainly from pestering the viewer its time to start over.

Avatar image for blazinpuertoroc
blazinpuertoroc

12245

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#92 blazinpuertoroc
Member since 2004 • 12245 Posts
agreed, its way too repetitive
Avatar image for klusps
klusps

10386

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 53

User Lists: 0

#93 klusps
Member since 2005 • 10386 Posts
The new episodes are just trash, the old ones were actually pretty good and some of them were clever. Sure there are some random scenes in the past episodes but they atleast made sense and not completely random like what they shows in these new episodes.
Avatar image for Strider_91
Strider_91

6570

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#94 Strider_91
Member since 2007 • 6570 Posts
Still good for me.
Avatar image for Jillian11
Jillian11

530

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#95 Jillian11
Member since 2008 • 530 Posts
I still find the show to be entertaining and funny. :)
Avatar image for Hey_Jay
Hey_Jay

7221

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#96 Hey_Jay
Member since 2004 • 7221 Posts
It'll be cancelled and then the people will want it back and when it comes back, it'll come back fresh and new and funny then eventually we'll just be right here again saying this same thing.
Avatar image for shoeman12
shoeman12

8744

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#97 shoeman12
Member since 2005 • 8744 Posts
it's still funny, and how often do giant chicken fights happen?
Avatar image for cyberdarkkid
cyberdarkkid

16777

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

#98 cyberdarkkid
Member since 2007 • 16777 Posts
I admit it that it is not as funny as it used to be but I still watch it for some reason and for some reason it is still my favorite show.
Avatar image for Hey_Jay
Hey_Jay

7221

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#99 Hey_Jay
Member since 2004 • 7221 Posts

it's still funny, and how often do giant chicken fights happen?shoeman12

In over 100 episodes, 3 by my count.

Avatar image for chriswazhere123
chriswazhere123

32

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#100 chriswazhere123
Member since 2007 • 32 Posts

First 1-3 seasons were OK, some older were bearable, but now, terrible