Five year old girl may face murder charges for drowning toddler

Story.

According to the story, the girl was irritated when the toddler wouldn't stop crying, so she held him under water until he stopped.

Wonder what the final outcome of this will be.

It was the parent's fault for leaving a baby with another baby.

It was the parent's fault for leaving a baby with another baby.

JediXMan7

How is that kid so stupid?

When I was 5 I knew not to hold babies under water, gez.

I've heard of 8 years olds getting life in prison where they would be in juvey until they are 18 and then go to prison. In this case, I'm not sure you can do that as the child is 5. It's not that they're too young just because of a number, but that is a 5 year old's mind fully developed? No. Do they know all right from wrong? No. Whether they thought that this would quiet the child or they were indeed just aggravated and decided to do that is somewhat natural, just not on that level. It's not unusual for a child to be jealous of a newborn as it is now taking away from they're attention and there is a jealousy. I would recommend counciling and maybe some time in a facility as punishment, but to end the child's life by sending it away to juvey and then to prison when it fully wasn't aware of what it was doing in terms of consequences and other aspects is just crazy.

The parents are the main ones to blame in this case, the girl just needs to get some serious help.HexedPelican

[QUOTE="JediXMan7"]

It was the parent's fault for leaving a baby with another baby.

Nibroc420

Close enough. The 5 year old doesn't know any better and should be not responsible for a toddler. Still the fault of the parents.

Realization that some children are born evil! Children of the Corn in the 80's tried to warn us but we just did not listen. In all seriousness, I read on some of the comments that the 16 year old baby sitter, left by the parents, had developmental disabilities? Well isn't this a funky situation. Do you charge the 5 year old demon girl, the 16 year old with developmental disabilities, or the parents who put the latter there? I say all of them but I lean towards both the parents and to a lesser degree the 16 year old.CreasianDevaili

In order of blame:

Parents > Babysitter > 5 year old.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="JediXMan7"]

It was the parent's fault for leaving a baby with another baby.

JediXMan7

Close enough. The 5 year old doesn't know any better and should be not responsible for a toddler. Still the fault of the parents.

[QUOTE="JediXMan7"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] a 5 year old isn't a "baby" a toddler isn't a "baby"Nibroc420

Close enough. The 5 year old doesn't know any better and should be not responsible for a toddler. Still the fault of the parents.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20070536-504083.html

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="JediXMan7"]

Close enough. The 5 year old doesn't know any better and should be not responsible for a toddler. Still the fault of the parents.

CreasianDevaili

That is murder.

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] If the 5 year old was a complete idiot, the parents shouldn't have left her alone to watch the toddler. However, she killed the toddler ON PURPOSE. That's murder, convict her to the full extent of the law.Nibroc420

That is murder.

For such a morbid story, it's rather amazing that the worst part of the page are the comments on the article

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] If the 5 year old was a complete idiot, the parents shouldn't have left her alone to watch the toddler. However, she killed the toddler ON PURPOSE. That's murder, convict her to the full extent of the law.Nibroc420

That is murder.

that's a little black and white. I don't even think most five year olds are even aware of the concept of death, let alone murder.

You really think this give year old thought "I want to kill my infant sibling, so I will drown him" and then proceeded to do so?

More likely the five year old got irrated with the constant crying, remembered "Hey, I cant talk underwater, maybe that will shut him up" and then did it to shut the infant up.

This was a horrible accident, that is all

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] They didn't leave her alone. They left her with a baby sitter with disabilities. Who fell asleep after giving the little ones a bath, but left the bathtub full before getting some Z's. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20070536-504083.htmlCreasianDevaili

That is murder.

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Does it Matter? The 5 year old took his/her sibling, put them into the bathtub, and drowned them, intentionally.

That is murder.

Nibroc420

this is manslaughter, not murder.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] Lets shut you down quickly. Children, or rather a toddler by the better word in this case, can watch actions on tv such as drowning or murder and see the act as a simplified action. What is required for this to be what we consider murder, is for the 5 year old to understand in coherant terms, the concept of DEATH itself.mrbojangles25

this is manslaughter, not murder.

For such a morbid story, it's rather amazing that the worst part of the page are the comments on the article

T_P_O

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Does it Matter? The 5 year old took his/her sibling, put them into the bathtub, and drowned them, intentionally.

That is murder.

Nibroc420

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] Lets shut you down quickly. Children, or rather a toddler by the better word in this case, can watch actions on tv such as drowning or murder and see the act as a simplified action. What is required for this to be what we consider murder, is for the 5 year old to understand in coherant terms, the concept of DEATH itself.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] So you're saying this girl drowned a toddler, and felt nothing? And that makes her exempt from the law? :| So.. Killers who feel nothing, should pay no price?Nibroc420

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Does it Matter? The 5 year old took his/her sibling, put them into the bathtub, and drowned them, intentionally.

That is murder.

Nibroc420

Most 5 year olds do not even know that they have a vagina or a penis by the terms themselves. Do you not grasp that they might not understand the complexity of our physical limitations and damage thresholds, which can result in termination of our unique existence?

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] So you're saying this girl drowned a toddler, and felt nothing? And that makes her exempt from the law? :| So.. Killers who feel nothing, should pay no price?Nibroc420

this is manslaughter, not murder.

I do not think it was intentional, and the legal system will prove this to be the case. If we start convicting 5 year olds of murder, sending them to juvi for 13 years, then putting them on death row...I feel sorry for my country.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]She's rather young to understand the consequences of death.

LJS9502_basic

It was the parent's fault for leaving a baby with another baby.JediXMan7

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Last i heard, ignorance isn't a defence.Nibroc420

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And yet the court takes understanding consequences into consideration.;)LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Last i heard, ignorance isn't a defence.Nibroc420

she caused the death of someone, she did not murder anyone. The courts know the difference, take extenuating circumstances/education/socioeconomic level/etc into concern.

Why cant you? What is motivating you to condemn a 5 year old to life in prison or death? Definitely not justice...

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

this is manslaughter, not murder.

I do not think it was intentional, and the legal system will prove this to be the case. If we start convicting 5 year olds of murder, sending them to juvi for 13 years, then putting them on death row...I feel sorry for my country.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] It shouldn't. She commited a crime, she murdered someone. Doing nothing would only teach her that she's not responsible for her actions.

Nibroc420

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And yet the court takes understanding consequences into consideration.;)mrbojangles25

she caused the death of someone, she did not murder anyone. The courts know the difference, take extenuating circumstances/education/socioeconomic level/etc into concern.

Why cant you? What is motivating you to condemn a 5 year old to life in prison or death? Definitely not justice...

mur·der/ˈmərdər/Noun: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.


A five-year-old girl dragged a toddler to a bathtub and drowned him because he made too much noise and cried too much, according to police.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] It shouldn't. She commited a crime, she murdered someone. Doing nothing would only teach her that she's not responsible for her actions.

Nibroc420

do you have any brothers or sisters? If you do, then you should know how crazy they can drive you, but no matter how much harm you want to cause them, you never want them to die.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And losing a sibling is not a consequence? She has to live with that every day for the rest of her life.mrbojangles25

do you have any brothers or sisters? If you do, then you should know how crazy they can drive you, but no matter how much harm you want to cause them, you never want them to die.

That's awful. Obviously a 5 yr old is too young to really understand those actions.

That's awful. Obviously a 5 yr old is too young to really understand those actions.

sonicare

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] It shouldn't. She commited a crime, she murdered someone. Doing nothing would only teach her that she's not responsible for her actions.

Nibroc420

she caused the death of someone, she did not murder anyone. The courts know the difference, take extenuating circumstances/education/socioeconomic level/etc into concern.

Why cant you? What is motivating you to condemn a 5 year old to life in prison or death? Definitely not justice...

mur·der/ˈmərdər/Noun: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.


A five-year-old girl dragged a toddler to a bathtub and drowned him because he made too much noise and cried too much, according to police.

that article is making the assumption she actually wanted to drown the baby. Guilty until proven innocent in this example, unfortunately. Go go justice system!

*did you just get done watching "The Orphan" or something? Kids arent evil

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

she caused the death of someone, she did not murder anyone. The courts know the difference, take extenuating circumstances/education/socioeconomic level/etc into concern.

Why cant you? What is motivating you to condemn a 5 year old to life in prison or death? Definitely not justice...

mrbojangles25

mur·der/ˈmərdər/Noun: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.


A five-year-old girl dragged a toddler to a bathtub and drowned him because he made too much noise and cried too much, according to police.

that article is making the assumption she actually wanted to drown the baby. Guilty until proven innocent in this example, unfortunately. Go go justice system!

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

mur·der/ˈmərdər/Noun: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.


A five-year-old girl dragged a toddler to a bathtub and drowned him because he made too much noise and cried too much, according to police.

Nibroc420

that article is making the assumption she actually wanted to drown the baby. Guilty until proven innocent in this example, unfortunately. Go go justice system!

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

she caused the death of someone, she did not murder anyone. The courts know the difference, take extenuating circumstances/education/socioeconomic level/etc into concern.

Why cant you? What is motivating you to condemn a 5 year old to life in prison or death? Definitely not justice...

mur·der/ˈmərdər/Noun: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.


A five-year-old girl dragged a toddler to a bathtub and drowned him because he made too much noise and cried too much, according to police.

that article is making the assumption she actually wanted to drown the baby. Guilty until proven innocent in this example, unfortunately. Go go justice system!

*did you just get done watching "The Orphan" or something? Kids arent evil

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

mur·der/ˈmərdər/Noun: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.


A five-year-old girl dragged a toddler to a bathtub and drowned him because he made too much noise and cried too much, according to police.

Nibroc420

that article is making the assumption she actually wanted to drown the baby. Guilty until proven innocent in this example, unfortunately. Go go justice system!

jesus h christ dude, you are really failing to see it from any point of view other than your own...

if youre shooting a gun, chances are you know what harm it can do (unless youre some 5 year old that found daddy's loaded pistol), and as a result if you shoot someone "to give them a peircing", you know what will happen. Person A knows Object X will kill Person B, but Person A does it anyway...that is a crime.

How is your example remotely similiar to the topic? One is done out of ignorance and idiocy, the other done out of naivety and a lack of comprehension of what death is.

How is your example remotely similiar to the topic? One is done out of ignorance and idiocy, the other done out of naivety and a lack of comprehension of what death is.

mrbojangles25

Ignorance and idiocy, VS Naivety and lack of Comprehenension.

Nice word choice :lol:

Ignorance = to not know/understand.

Lack of comprehenstion = to not understand.

Idiots are also naive ;)

nice try though.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

How is your example remotely similiar to the topic? One is done out of ignorance and idiocy, the other done out of naivety and a lack of comprehension of what death is.

Nibroc420

Ignorance and idiocy, VS Naivety and lack of Comprehenension.

Nice word choice :lol:

Ignorance = to not know/understand.

Lack of comprehenstion = to not understand.

Idiots are also naive ;)

nice try though.

My 5 year old nice told her mom the other day that she was a mean mom and that she never wanted to see her anymore, i gues that under your logic in a few days she will go to a lawyer for emancipation right.

My 5 year old nice told her mom the other day that she was a mean mom and that she never wanted to see her anymore, i gues that under your logic in a few days she will go to a lawyer for emancipation right.

madsnakehhh

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

How is your example remotely similiar to the topic? One is done out of ignorance and idiocy, the other done out of naivety and a lack of comprehension of what death is.

Nibroc420

Ignorance and idiocy, VS Naivety and lack of Comprehenension.

Nice word choice :lol:

Ignorance = to not know/understand.

Lack of comprehenstion = to not understand.

Idiots are also naive ;)

nice try though.

ignorance and naivety are similiar, but not the same: ignorance is willfully disregarding/not accepting something, naivety is not knowing something because you havent been exposed to it. Is your connotation of ignorance and naivety honestly the same? That would be sad...

idiocy is not being able to learn something despite being given the opportunity to do so, lack of comprehension is lacking the ability to learn or not being given the chance to

ignorance and idiocy are the characteristics of guilt; they are entirely under the persons control.

naivety and lack of comprehension are characteristics of innocence or extenuating circumstances; they are not under an individuals control.

The 5 year old in my opinion is of the latter.

Last i heard, ignorance isn't a defence.Nibroc420

It isn't that simple. Ignorance that something is against the law is generally not an excuse in court. However, an inability to really understand the law, or to understand the natural consequences of an action, is taken into account.

[QUOTE="madsnakehhh"]My 5 year old nice told her mom the other day that she was a mean mom and that she never wanted to see her anymore, i gues that under your logic in a few days she will go to a lawyer for emancipation right.

Nibroc420

So, it's ok for a 5 year old to not understand a word, but she has to understand the term or consequences of deprivation of life?

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="madsnakehhh"]My 5 year old nice told her mom the other day that she was a mean mom and that she never wanted to see her anymore, i gues that under your logic in a few days she will go to a lawyer for emancipation right.

madsnakehhh

So, it's ok for a 5 year old to not understand a word, but she has to understand the term or consequences of deprivation of life?