Five year old girl may face murder charges for drowning toddler

[QUOTE="Blabadon"]

From a comment:

"here's the UPDATE:

the parents of the toddlers left the children in the care of a 16 year old with developmental disabilities. authorities are questioning the parents' poor judgment (geez, ya think????).

the bathtub was full of water from baths the children took earlier, but never drained. 5 year old dragged toddler to the tub, held him under water. she told social workers she did not like the baby because it cried too much."

Nibroc420

Clearly she hated the toddler and wanted to kill it.

Murder it is.

From a comment:

"here's the UPDATE:

the parents of the toddlers left the children in the care of a 16 year old with developmental disabilities. authorities are questioning the parents' poor judgment (geez, ya think????).

the bathtub was full of water from baths the children took earlier, but never drained. 5 year old dragged toddler to the tub, held him under water. she told social workers she did not like the baby because it cried too much."

Blabadon

Not looking good for the youngster!

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="Blabadon"]

From a comment:

"here's the UPDATE:

the parents of the toddlers left the children in the care of a 16 year old with developmental disabilities. authorities are questioning the parents' poor judgment (geez, ya think????).

the bathtub was full of water from baths the children took earlier, but never drained. 5 year old dragged toddler to the tub, held him under water. she told social workers she did not like the baby because it cried too much."

alexside1

Clearly she hated the toddler and wanted to kill it.

Murder it is.

. And you're telling me she didn't mean to do it? pfft ok.:roll:

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

Clearly she hated the toddler and wanted to kill it.

Murder it is.

Nibroc420

. And you're telling me she didn't mean to do it? pfft ok.:roll:

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"] Will you stop treating the child as an adult?

alexside1

. And you're telling me she didn't mean to do it? pfft ok.:roll:

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] She didn't like the Toddler because it "cried too much."
She dragged Toddler to a bathtub full of water.
She held the Toddler underwater and watched it drown

. And you're telling me she didn't mean to do it? pfft ok.:roll:

Nibroc420

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"] Stop producing stawmans and just answer it.

alexside1

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Answer what? I will treat anyone who's ok with holding a toddler underwater while watching the life fade from it's eyes as a murderer. Child or not, she clearly hated the toddler, and there's nothing to suggest she didn't know what she was doing.

Nibroc420

this girl need mental help. the parents should face charges for neglect

Where do you send a Toddler? Obviously you can't send them to adult prison and I was unaware Juvie had a daycare.

I am pretty sure she cant, any good lawyer would know anyone under the age of 7 cannot be charged for murder

i have had siblings and never had the urge to hurt them when they were infants, the kid may ahve mental problems

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]You want me to take a guess? I'd say about age 7 or 8. And that age is just to understand the concept of death, not to know that performing certain actions can cause death.Shottayouth13-

1) Oh, so you're just guessing? Are you also just guessing when you say that 5 is too young?

2) Anyway, you guessed 7 or 8. Somewhere in that range. Let's just say, 7 and a half years old. Now, unless you're suggesting that there's something special about that EXACT age that causes ALL kids to suddenly understand death, then clearly some kids understand death sooner than others. Now explain to me how it's impossible for a kid to mentally/emotionally be two years ahead of his/her peers (or two years behind, for that matter).

I was plenty capable of understanding death when I was five years old (at least as far as being able to understand WHY I wasn't supposed to drown my little brother). I was not in any way a genius, my parents simply TAUGHT ME why instead of saying "no stabbing, because I said so". When family members and pets died, my parents EXPLAINED what that meaned, instead of coddling my ass by giving a BS excuse like "grandpa can't come visit because he lives with God now."

You have cited absolutely no evidence that a five year old child CAN'T understand death.

Now, if you were to say that MOST five year old children DON'T understand death, then there'd be no argument from me. That'd still be a case in which THIS child receives a psychiatric evaluation by an expert in order to determine if she should face murder charges or not. That's a hell of a lot different than stating that it's IMPOSSIBLE for any person to understand death when they're only five years old. If you're going to state that NO child can POSSIBLY understand death when they're only five years old, then I'd like to see some very solid data supporting that claim.

A five-year-old child is not at the age of accountability or of reason. To punish her as an adult is monstrous.Theokhoth

Again, I'd like to see some very hard and rock-solid evidence.

If you were to say that MOST five year old children DON'T understand death well enough to appreciate the consequences of their actions when they cause death, then I might agree. But that is FAR from stating that the mere ABILITY to understand and appreciate the consequences of death CANNOT become present until after the age of five.

Those two claims are VASTLY different. If you're arguing the former, then you'll get no dispute from me. If you're arguing the latter, then I want to see some rock-solid evidence supporting that claim.

Will you stop treating the child as an adult?

alexside1

Will you stop treating children as mindless idiots with no free will?

Seriously...it's like every time a child does something bad, people try to coddle it and act like "well you can't fault the child...it's just a stupid child. It couldn't help it."

I'm not even agreeing with Nibroc's sentiment that the girl should suffer the maximum penalties, but children aren't that stupid. Granted, they CAN be that stupid and ignorant if authority figures coddle them enough in order to spare them the pain of dealing with the real world, but they're not INHERENTLY that stupid and ignorant.

Stop acting like young children are just brainless idiots that need to be sheltered from the world.

That really sucks. I don't think there is a right solution to this issue. I think the most important thing is to make sure this girl is not able to hurt anyone ever again.

[QUOTE="alexside1"]Will you stop treating the child as an adult?

MrGeezer

Will you stop treating children as mindless idiots with no free will?

Seriously...it's like every time a child does something bad, people try to coddle it and act like "well you can't fault the child...it's just a stupid child. It couldn't help it."

I'm not even agreeing with Nibroc's sentiment that the girl should suffer the maximum penalties, but children aren't that stupid. Granted, they CAN be that stupid and ignorant if authority figures coddle them enough in order to spare them the pain of dealing with the real world, but they're not INHERENTLY that stupid and ignorant.

Stop acting like young children are just brainless idiots that need to be sheltered from the world.

Straw-man, I never claim that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

If she was "special" she would have gone away with it easy. This just sickens me.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"]Will you stop treating the child as an adult?

alexside1

Will you stop treating children as mindless idiots with no free will?

Seriously...it's like every time a child does something bad, people try to coddle it and act like "well you can't fault the child...it's just a stupid child. It couldn't help it."

I'm not even agreeing with Nibroc's sentiment that the girl should suffer the maximum penalties, but children aren't that stupid. Granted, they CAN be that stupid and ignorant if authority figures coddle them enough in order to spare them the pain of dealing with the real world, but they're not INHERENTLY that stupid and ignorant.

Stop acting like young children are just brainless idiots that need to be sheltered from the world.

Straw-man, I never claim that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

When you educate a child and teach it morals and the basic foundations of life, they will pick up on these and continue to follow them until they really decide to break them or not. Guilt will come along with this because the feelings you once had as a child when you knew you had done something wrong. That's good parenting right there. It also works the same with dogs, kinda funny.

Once born ugly, always kinda ugly unless you force yourself to be the person you don't want to be. Humans have the ability to do that once they are older but it's very difficult especially if you were abused as child and what not. Kids do have free will and they are not mindless idiots, but the fault comes down with the parents.

I can imagine her 20 years from now. "hey, what´s the most intersting thing you have done in your life? - "I killed my brother whe I was five :D"

.

i have had siblings and never had the urge to hurt them when they were infants, the kid may ahve mental problems

weezyfb

........ This isn't the first time that a person had done harm to a toddler to try to stop them from crying.. And the majority of those people were much older and did not have a history of violent crime.. There is something instinctionally upsetting of a babies crying, like nails on a chalk board.. Which can send some one on edge.. Its not hard to understand that a 5 year old was driven over the edge by this and did not see the consquences of her action for her, her family and her sibbling she killed.. In the end this is tragic, and it will effect the entire family including her forever..

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Will you stop treating children as mindless idiots with no free will?

Seriously...it's like every time a child does something bad, people try to coddle it and act like "well you can't fault the child...it's just a stupid child. It couldn't help it."

I'm not even agreeing with Nibroc's sentiment that the girl should suffer the maximum penalties, but children aren't that stupid. Granted, they CAN be that stupid and ignorant if authority figures coddle them enough in order to spare them the pain of dealing with the real world, but they're not INHERENTLY that stupid and ignorant.

Stop acting like young children are just brainless idiots that need to be sheltered from the world.

Gaming-Planet

Straw-man, I never claim that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

When you educate a child and teach it morals and the basic foundations of life, they will pick up on these and continue to follow them until they really decide to break them or not. Guilt will come along with this because the feelings you once had as a child when you knew you had done something wrong. That's good parenting right there. It also works the same with dogs, kinda funny.

Once born ugly, always kinda ugly unless you force yourself to be the person you don't want to be. Humans have the ability to do that once they are older but it's very difficult especially if you were abused as child and what not. Kids do have free will and they are not mindless idiots, but the fault comes down with the parents.

Well more along the lines of the fault of the baby sitter who fell asleep when watching a infant and a 5 year old.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="alexside1"]Will you stop treating the child as an adult?

alexside1

Will you stop treating children as mindless idiots with no free will?

Seriously...it's like every time a child does something bad, people try to coddle it and act like "well you can't fault the child...it's just a stupid child. It couldn't help it."

I'm not even agreeing with Nibroc's sentiment that the girl should suffer the maximum penalties, but children aren't that stupid. Granted, they CAN be that stupid and ignorant if authority figures coddle them enough in order to spare them the pain of dealing with the real world, but they're not INHERENTLY that stupid and ignorant.

Stop acting like young children are just brainless idiots that need to be sheltered from the world.

Straw-man, I never claim that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

And Nibroc never claimed that the child is an adult.

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Will you stop treating children as mindless idiots with no free will?

Seriously...it's like every time a child does something bad, people try to coddle it and act like "well you can't fault the child...it's just a stupid child. It couldn't help it."

I'm not even agreeing with Nibroc's sentiment that the girl should suffer the maximum penalties, but children aren't that stupid. Granted, they CAN be that stupid and ignorant if authority figures coddle them enough in order to spare them the pain of dealing with the real world, but they're not INHERENTLY that stupid and ignorant.

Stop acting like young children are just brainless idiots that need to be sheltered from the world.

MrGeezer

Straw-man, I never claim that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

And Nibroc never claimed that the child is an adult.

[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Will you stop treating children as mindless idiots with no free will?

Seriously...it's like every time a child does something bad, people try to coddle it and act like "well you can't fault the child...it's just a stupid child. It couldn't help it."

I'm not even agreeing with Nibroc's sentiment that the girl should suffer the maximum penalties, but children aren't that stupid. Granted, they CAN be that stupid and ignorant if authority figures coddle them enough in order to spare them the pain of dealing with the real world, but they're not INHERENTLY that stupid and ignorant.

Stop acting like young children are just brainless idiots that need to be sheltered from the world.

Gaming-Planet

Straw-man, I never claim that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

When you educate a child and teach it morals and the basic foundations of life, they will pick up on these and continue to follow them until they really decide to break them or not. Guilt will come along with this because the feelings you once had as a child when you knew you had done something wrong. That's good parenting right there. It also works the same with dogs, kinda funny.

Once born ugly, always kinda ugly unless you force yourself to be the person you don't want to be. Humans have the ability to do that once they are older but it's very difficult especially if you were abused as child and what not. Kids do have free will and they are not mindless idiots, but the fault comes down with the parents.

Has the investigation been completed yet? Is there an updated link?

Technically he said treating the child as an adult...not that Nibroc claimed the child an adult...

LJS9502_basic

Right, and I said that alexside was treating children as mindless idiots with no free will, not that he claimed that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Technically he said treating the child as an adult...not that Nibroc claimed the child an adult...

MrGeezer

Right, and I said that alexside was treating children as mindless idiots with no free will, not that he claimed that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Technically he said treating the child as an adult...not that Nibroc claimed the child an adult...

alexside1

Right, and I said that alexside was treating children as mindless idiots with no free will, not that he claimed that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Right, and I said that alexside was treating children as mindless idiots with no free will, not that he claimed that children are mindless idiots with no free will.

Nibroc420

First of all, I was asking him not you, you don't speak for him.

Second, were did I say that bold statement? I demand that you quote me saying that.

Third you got some serious promblems when you support of the kids life-imprisonment as a punishment.

First of all, I was asking him not you, you don't speak for him.alexside1

The Classic "uhh, you're right, but i wasn't asking you" statement :lol:

Second, were did I say that bold statement? I demand that you quote me saying that.alexside1

Quote you? Your entire arguement is based on "It's a stupid child, she clearly had no idea that holding someone underwater would drown them"

Third you got some serious promblems when you support of the kids life-imprisonment as a punishment.alexside1

I believe that people who break laws should face consquences, anyone who's hearless enough to drown a toddler clearly has some issues, and is a danger to others. Was i being a little harsh by saying a 5 year old should "get the chair"? Probbably, however she should still face jail time, and some serious councelling, perhaps take her from her parents as well.

"First of all, I was asking him not you, you don't speak for him."

"The Classic "uhh, you're right, but i wasn't asking you" statement :lol:"

Stop acting immature and be serious with me.

"Second, were did I say that bold statement? I demand that you quote me saying that."

Quote you?

Yes I want you to quote me, do have a promblem with that?

"Third you got some serious promblems when you support of the kids life-imprisonment as a punishment."

I believe that people who break laws should face consquences, anyone who's hearless enough to drown a toddler clearly has some issues, and is a danger to others. Was i being a little harsh by saying a 5 year old should "get the chair"? Probbably, however she should still face jail time, and some serious councelling, perhaps take her from her parents as well.

Send a five year old to prison? You seriously need to rethink your judgement abilities.

"First of all, I was asking him not you, you don't speak for him."

"The Classic "uhh, you're right, but i wasn't asking you" statement :lol:"

Stop acting immature and be serious with me.

"Second, were did I say that bold statement? I demand that you quote me saying that."

Quote you?

Yes I want you to quote me, do have a promblem with that?

"Third you got some serious promblems when you support of the kids life-imprisonment as a punishment."

I believe that people who break laws should face consquences, anyone who's hearless enough to drown a toddler clearly has some issues, and is a danger to others. Was i being a little harsh by saying a 5 year old should "get the chair"? Probbably, however she should still face jail time, and some serious councelling, perhaps take her from her parents as well.

Send a five year old to prison? You seriously need to rethink your judgement abilities.

alexside1

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

That's awful. Obviously a 5 yr old is too young to really understand those actions.

Nibroc420

Are you sure it wasn't the mentally handicapped teenager who did it? I don't think a toddler is able to pull something off like that....

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="sonicare"]

That's awful. Obviously a 5 yr old is too young to really understand those actions.

rockerbikie

Until this point I had avoided this thread precisely because of the kind of idiocy I expected to see. I did not, however, necessarily expect to see it rear its head on the very first page. And good to see that certain users seem to have free reign to troll the board.

Until this point I had avoided this thread precisely because of the kind of idiocy I expected to see. I did not, however, necessarily expect to see it rear its head on the very first page. And good to see that certain users seem to have free reign to troll the board.

worlock77

So...do you have anything to add to the discussion at hand?