So I have been wrapping my head around this scenario for quite some time. I am sure we all remember the Mace vs Palpy battle...now my question is. COULD Mace have actually beaten Palpy? Sam Jackons persona aside lol Mace was prob the best saber fighter in the Order..yea yea people will say Yoda this and Yoda that...but here is why I think Mace is the perfect Sith Killer:
Firstly his saber form Vaapad is a hybrid of form VII and combining his own dark side tendencies to channel anger/fear into a constructive means. Given that Sith/Dark Jedi use fear and rage to their advantage (with both the force and Dun Moch) this would make Mace the perfect Jedi for taking down Palpy with the fact he can turn the sith lords best assets against him (perfect example with the force lighting). We see that when Yoda fights him Yoda becomes extremely fatagued (possibly due to his age?) and while Yoda does have more force potential than Mace, Yoda never chose to embrace the darkside in any way shape or form so he in essence became incapable of killing a sith...Secondly this may sound crazy but Mace in my mind is a bit more of a Gray Jedi than his fellow council members. He does dabble in the darkside (i.e. using force crush on Grevious) and with lines like "he is too dangerous to be left alive" he choose the expedient path rather than the one of "peace". But unlike many other Gray Jedi (such as Dooku) he finds the ultimate balence of light and dark to keep himself untainted of the darksides influence. IMO you need to embrace the darkside to some level to be able to defeat it. When Obi-wan beat Maul it was only after he saw Qui-gon die and his anger got the better of him if only for a moment. When Luke defeated Vader it was only after Vaders "Dun Moch" brought out his anger yada yada. The reason Sith were so good at defeating Jedi was because 9 times out of 10 they WERE jedi at one time so they knew the ways of the light. Mace embraces both sides of the fence so in reality (other than Anakin at the time) he may have been the only one capable of beating Palpy...discuss.
I just orderd 5 Star Wars comic trades on Amazon today. Yeah I'm a SW nerd too. I guess Mace could have killed palpatine if Anakin hadnt messed up his arm, but is that the jedi way? It just wasnt ment to be.
Yea honestly though..I don't think Lucas intended anything other than what actually happened..but perhaps thats his genious...giving Star Wars fans somthing to debate/complain over *c*ugh cough Jar Jar cough cough*
I knew a guy who played Kotor in a Darth Vader helmet and made deep breathing sounds while he force choked people. He is you're king. I'm not too into Star Wars, but I am a nerd in other respects.
I knew a guy who played Kotor in a Darth Vader helmet and made deep breathing sounds while he force choked people. He is you're king. I'm not too into Star Wars, but I am a nerd in other respects.Private_Vegas
hahahaha thats too funny..I said I am a nerd...not insane
So I totally see what you are saying. I will preface this with the fact that I'm not a Star Wars Nerd as much as just a Star Wars Fan who loves discussions on interesting things (anything not just Star Wars stuff). That being said, it makes sense and being that way is probably the main reason he died (besides the fact that if he killed the Emporer (sp?) then the last three would have never happened but that's beside the point). If you look at it, he didn't let the dark side taint him but that is exactly why he was able to control himself when the Emporer (sp?) starting begging and acting defenseless. If he didn't have that balance he would have just sliced him in two. All I know is I am UBER pumped for the new Star Wars game coming out for the 360 at the start of next year (The Force game). I just wish they would do the final three movies because I really enjoyed the newer three along with the original. I actually have to say that the Third movie is my fave. It was just crazy!
I knew a guy who played Kotor in a Darth Vader helmet and made deep breathing sounds while he force choked people. He is you're king. I'm not too into Star Wars, but I am a nerd in other respects.Private_Vegas
He sounds like the kind of guy that would be doing other stuff in a Vader helmet if you know what I mean! There is a great song that was on Bob and Tom (radio show) about being a nerd, it's called "I've Never Been Laid" and it had a reference to the Vader thing and there is also one that is called Star Wars Geeks that is just hilarious! That one is just about a time when Bobcat Goldwaithe (sp?) went to the re-release of the old movies but they were visually beefed up. It's hilarous!
I agree that Mace could have probally beat palps. He was the best saber fighter of the order. I am a star wars fan. Not as much as i once was but still a fan. I used to be able to name almost all of the different vehicles and ships in all the movies and games. Also when I see yoda fight I think of one of those weasel ball toys.
[QUOTE="Legacyoftain"]So I have been wrapping my head around this scenario for quite some time. I am sure we all remember the Mace vs Palpy battle...now my question is. COULD Mace have actually beaten Palpy? Sam Jackons persona aside lol Mace was prob the best saber fighter in the Order..yea yea people will say Yoda this and Yoda that...but here is why I think Mace is the perfect Sith Killer:
Firstly his saber form Vaapad is a hybrid of form VII and combining his own dark side tendencies to channel anger/fear into a constructive means. Given that Sith/Dark Jedi use fear and rage to their advantage (with both the force and Dun Moch) this would make Mace the perfect Jedi for taking down Palpy with the fact he can turn the sith lords best assets against him (perfect example with the force lighting). We see that when Yoda fights him Yoda becomes extremely fatagued (possibly due to his age?) and while Yoda does have more force potential than Mace, Yoda never chose to embrace the darkside in any way shape or form so he in essence became incapable of killing a sith...Secondly this may sound crazy but Mace in my mind is a bit more of a Gray Jedi than his fellow council members. He does dabble in the darkside (i.e. using force crush on Grevious) and with lines like "he is too dangerous to be left alive" he choose the expedient path rather than the one of "peace". But unlike many other Gray Jedi (such as Dooku) he finds the ultimate balence of light and dark to keep himself untainted of the darksides influence. IMO you need to embrace the darkside to some level to be able to defeat it. When Obi-wan beat Maul it was only after he saw Qui-gon die and his anger got the better of him if only for a moment. When Luke defeated Vader it was only after Vaders "Dun Moch" brought out his anger yada yada. The reason Sith were so good at defeating Jedi was because 9 times out of 10 they WERE jedi at one time so they knew the ways of the light. Mace embraces both sides of the fence so in reality (other than Anakin at the time) he may have been the only one capable of beating Palpy...discuss.
Thanks, that some pretty good info, I'm going to remember that and tell it to my friends.
I honestly don't think anybody save Vader could beat good ol' Palpy, with the Kyber Crystal(oh, yeah I'm an über star wars nerd) Sidious had a midichlorian count thousands higher than Mace. Emperor Palpatine is so freaking awesome...
I honestly don't think anybody save Vader could beat good ol' Palpy, with the Kyber Crystal(oh, yeah I'm an über star wars nerd) Sidious had a midichlorian count thousands higher than Mace. Emperor Palpatine is so freaking awesome...espoac
true but in this case its not force potential (i refuse to say midi********) that makes mace his match...but his adaptability to the dark side IMO..which no matter how powerful of a sith you are (and Palpatine WAS one of the strongest ever if not THE strongest ever) its all a moot point fighting a jedi like Mace he will just absorb your rage/fear/power and channel it back to you..and most big baddies that strong cant take their own medicine
Ultimately LUKE is best, not the young Luke but the one who destroyed the Emperor at the end. He is the chosen one, you dont become a chosen one just by being just anyone.
There in the word Chosen one is the answer, it means that Luke can control the balance between the Good and Bad side. So i agree that keeping the dark side at bay means you are the stongest. It is easy to walk over to the darkside and embrace its power. Power corrupts so for Yoda to have resisted it for so long makes him very strong.
Also when Obi Wan got mad after the death of his Master meant that he only become more vigilant/detemined to end this fiend of evil Sith, it does not mean he was seduced by the Darkside. He still prevailed. I think he could have been one of the great Jedi's Obi Wan that is... but LUKE is the one.
I'm being serious. There's no science in Star wars. You've got space ships going through space as if they were flying through an atmosphere. Plasma is formed into a blade yet it doesn't ignite the atmosphere surrounding the jedi? It's fantasy....really good fantasy.
anything/time period that uses toilet paper in a toilet is "science" fiction. Anything not using toilet paper/ or even having a loo, is "Fantasy/Middle Ages"
I'm being serious. There's no science in Star wars. You've got space ships going through space as if they were flying through an atmosphere. Plasma is formed into a blade yet it doesn't ignite the atmosphere surrounding the jedi? It's fantasy....really good fantasy.Dasc00
Ultimately LUKE is best, not the young Luke but the one who destroyed the Emperor at the end. He is the chosen one, you dont become a chosen one just by being just anyone.
There in the word Chosen one is the answer, it means that Luke can control the balance between the Good and Bad side. So i agree that keeping the dark side at bay means you are the stongest. It is easy to walk over to the darkside and embrace its power. Power corrupts so for Yoda to have resisted it for so long makes him very strong.
Also when Obi Wan got mad after the death of his Master meant that he only become more vigilant/detemined to end this fiend of evil Sith, it does not mean he was seduced by the Darkside. He still prevailed. I think he could have been one of the great Jedi's Obi Wan that is... but LUKE is the one. wurn
You have some points however there are a couple reasons why it could be debated...1stly Light and Dark don't = good or bad. If you ever play through the KotR games you get a real true understanding of this through the story. Jedi AND Sith lords are both known for giving half truths to best suit their personal ethos...Jedi often times will chose the answer THEY see as best even though it may mean the end of millions of lives (such is "wise" old yoda refusing to assassinate general griveious to put an end to his slaughter of billions because he refrered to it as "cowardice") just as Palpetine never "lied" to Anakin to get him to fall to the dark side...only told him things he wanted to hear at key moments in his life. The SW universe does a good job of keeping light and dark sides of the force separate from good and evil. 2nd..Luke I will agree was the true Chosen one but Luke was wiser than Yoda in may ways because he understood the balence of light and dark...in fact for a time after his formation of the Jedi Academy he actually purposly fell to the dark side (and even apprenticed under Palpetine) to gain a better understanding of it and made a full recovery back to the light. Yoda was indeed strong..but he wasn't the perfect jedi people make him out to be..he was as blind in his convictions as any sith lord..had he been more in tune with the dark side to understand how it works..he would have been able to route out Palpy before Anakin was even old enough to hold a light saber..but then there would be no movie hahaha Another thing Lucas may or may not have done on purpose was using Mace as the figure for which Anakin makes his final decision...We all have seen how in ep 1-3 Mace never really liked or trusted Anakin even since he was a boy while on the other hand Palpetine took a shine to him very early on and pushes his Jedi career to its utmost by suggesting he raise in rank etc etc....so while he may have been the best choice to fight Palpetine he was the WORST jedi possible to keep Anakin from falling to the dark side. In reality...none of what I say is anything other than opinion..i just like good discussion
Dude Lucas wrote this whole story as a love story... So Lucas being a human being can only thing in a human frame of mind. Star Wars is not that far off from the Christian theology. Seriously i know Light and Dark side means Good and Evil. In the Satanic believe they do talk about Light and Dark warfare and not Good and Evil. You can even do good things in a Evil empire and even Evil things in a Good Empire.. if you understand what i am getting at. SO why is it then that the Darkside is seen as bad, that there is even a Dark and Light side?? SHould they not be the same then. It is because the Darkside(Evil) gives your quick access to power and after awhile you become less of a human being/individual that you are, like the Emperor/Pulpatine was transformed into and old man. SO no i dont agree with your assumption. Your turn, lets hear it
[QUOTE="wurn"]Ultimately LUKE is best, not the young Luke but the one who destroyed the Emperor at the end. He is the chosen one, you dont become a chosen one just by being just anyone.
There in the word Chosen one is the answer, it means that Luke can control the balance between the Good and Bad side. So i agree that keeping the dark side at bay means you are the stongest. It is easy to walk over to the darkside and embrace its power. Power corrupts so for Yoda to have resisted it for so long makes him very strong.
Also when Obi Wan got mad after the death of his Master meant that he only become more vigilant/detemined to end this fiend of evil Sith, it does not mean he was seduced by the Darkside. He still prevailed. I think he could have been one of the great Jedi's Obi Wan that is... but LUKE is the one. Legacyoftain
You have some points however there are a couple reasons why it could be debated...1stly Light and Dark don't = good or bad. If you ever play through the KotR games you get a real true understanding of this through the story. Jedi AND Sith lords are both known for giving half truths to best suit their personal ethos...Jedi often times will chose the answer THEY see as best even though it may mean the end of millions of lives (such is "wise" old yoda refusing to assassinate general griveious to put an end to his slaughter of billions because he refrered to it as "cowardice") just as Palpetine never "lied" to Anakin to get him to fall to the dark side...only told him things he wanted to hear at key moments in his life. The SW universe does a good job of keeping light and dark sides of the force separate from good and evil. 2nd..Luke I will agree was the true Chosen one but Luke was wiser than Yoda in may ways because he understood the balence of light and dark...in fact for a time after his formation of the Jedi Academy he actually purposly fell to the dark side (and even apprenticed under Palpetine) to gain a better understanding of it and made a full recovery back to the light. Yoda was indeed strong..but he wasn't the perfect jedi people make him out to be..he was as blind in his convictions as any sith lord..had he been more in tune with the dark side to understand how it works..he would have been able to route out Palpy before Anakin was even old enough to hold a light saber..but then there would be no movie hahaha Another thing Lucas may or may not have done on purpose was using Mace as the figure for which Anakin makes his final decision...We all have seen how in ep 1-3 Mace never really liked or trusted Anakin even since he was a boy while on the other hand Palpetine took a shine to him very early on and pushes his Jedi career to its utmost by suggesting he raise in rank etc etc....so while he may have been the best choice to fight Palpetine he was the WORST jedi possible to keep Anakin from falling to the dark side. In reality...none of what I say is anything other than opinion..i just like good discussion
[QUOTE="wurn"]Dude Lucas wrote this whole story as a love story... So Lucas being a human being can only thing in a human frame of mind. Star Wars is not that far off from the Christian theology. Seriously i know Light and Dark side means Good and Evil. In the Satanic believe they do talk about Light and Dark warfare and not Good and Evil. You can even do good things in a Evil empire and even Evil things in a Good Empire.. if you understand what i am getting at. SO why is it then that the Darkside is seen as bad, that there is even a Dark and Light side?? SHould they not be the same then. It is because the Darkside(Evil) gives your quick access to power and after awhile you become less of a human being/individual that you are, like the Emperor/Pulpatine was transformed into and old man. SO no i dont agree with your assumption. Your turn, lets hear it [ *cracks knuckles* ok here it goes....Yes Lucas is human...but the love story is secondary at best to the other many underlying overtones of the movie.. Anakin never shows TRUE love for Padame..the love he professes for her is a selfish and lustful love. He views her as a possession to be lost rather than a part of him self he cannot live with out. He doesn't confide in her nor does he trust her enough to make her aware of his fears and premonitions. Does he care for her? Of course..but I care for my xbox 360 and would be sad if it burned in a fire..and if it broke down..I would pay the $$ to get it fixed..however I dont love my 360...I wouldn't commit a selfless act for it..or give my life for it (as a mother would her child etc). Anakin used Padame' as a replacement in his heart for the mother he lost and "failed" to save. So while Padme could have possibly been a true love for him in the beginning..when his mother died and he replaced Padme for her..she became an object in that respect. So she by the 3rd movie is nothing more than a catalyst to give him reason to turn to the dark side. If you want true love...take Han and Leia as an example..not Anakin and Padme..heck even Luke and Mara Jade are better examples. Now as for your religious reference....since SW 1st came out people make the parallel with the Force (light and dark) with Christianity....remember good and evil never represent true Light and Dark..because Light and Dark are absolutes and Good and Evil are objective...we have all heard of the Tao...and SW can more be compared to Taoism than Christianity. Besides the impregnation of Anakins mother IMO there are very little Christian overtones in the movie. But I can see how people would pull religion or politics into the movies..I however chose to steer clear of both because it's a mindless debate on objectivity (you believe one thing I believe another)...so back to my point.Light and dark are not objective as good and evil are (i.e. whats evil to us now may not be "evil" 100 years from now)...good and evil are constructs of what society deems so. Remember if you use Christianity as your point here remember two things 1. The Bible didn't float down from heaven by God directly into the hands of man so that means a human had to interpret "Gods Word" and there for could be possibly flawed since humans are flawed..2. The ideas of good and evil in the Bible correlates to the time in which the Bible was written and is objective. But thats another discussion all together...back on point.. The good/evil argument of the force however is moot with the concept of Gray Jedi...in which they represent the Tao of the force...the balance of both light and dark. So why is it impossible to think that Lucas and his writers are well read enough to know about such relationships and balance outside of traditional conservative views of good and evil? I mean the reason we have concepts of good and evil is to keep people in check and maintain society. Both Yoda and Palpatine were after the same thing...order..if history has taught us nothing is that good and evil are objective...some called Adolf Hitler a hero/patriot others called him a sadistic madman who was the worst thing to happen to humanity. I am in no way advocating his actions but you have to step outside your own personal belief box and weigh the situation as it is. Do I think Palpy is dark? yes...do I think he is evil? Yes..do I think he is evil because he was dark? No...For example I do not believe Dooku was evil just because he was part of the dark side..Is Yoda's "wait and see" approach to major crisis's that threaten the lives of billions any less evil than actually committing the crime yourself? *whipes brow*
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