For those of you who have faith in god...

You can't also say that you "know" god. You couldn't know him and simultaneously have faith that he exists at the same time. Knowledge replaces faith. For anything that has proven to be true, faith is no longer required.

The very fact that faith is required to believe in god proves that not one shred of evidence for god has ever been discovered. Obviously, otherwise faith would no longer be needed, correct? And if faith is still necessary to this day, thousands of years after the bible was written, hasn't it hit you yet that maybe this god guy isn't really there?

What do you think?

***DISCLAIMER: Be nice. I'm merely presenting an arguement. This is NOT a conversion attempt. This is NOT to cause division on the forums. This is for the sake of discussion. You do not have to participate if you don't want to. I'm not forcing anyone. I'm seriously interested in hearing differnt peoples' opinions. Thank you.

I think that you're mistaking the definition of the kind of faith a Christian has. It's not the same kind of fait that you'd have in a sports team or something. It's given to us by God.jim_shorts

I don't understand. Especially the bold part. Can you expand on that, please?

Invoked in stone
Of epic proportion
Was his temple of pillars
Magnificent colossal
Humbling all who entered its sacred halls
Yet now fallen to decay and ruin
Its past grandeur
Obscured by the cruelties of time
The priests of the temple
Dead all dead
And fallen to dust
Their undying whispers of despair
Echo amongst sand strewn
Broken paving stones

Desolation desolation
The end of days
The glory of the gods
Is put out
Like a reed torch
In the water
The roof of the house of Amun is fallen
Even the gods must die

-Nile - "Even The Gods Must Die"

You can't also say that you "know" god. You couldn't know him and simultaneously have faith that he exists at the same time. Knowledge replaces faith. For anything that has proven to be true, faith is no longer required.

The very fact that faith is required to believe in god proves that not one shred of evidence for god has ever been discovered. Obviously, otherwise faith would no longer be needed, correct? And if faith is still necessary to this day, thousands of years after the bible was written, hasn't it hit you yet that maybe this god guy isn't really there?

What do you think?

***DISCLAIMER: Be nice. I'm merely presenting an arguement. This is NOT a conversion attempt. This is NOT to cause division on the forums. This is for the sake of discussion. You do not have to participate if you don't want to. I'm not forcing anyone. I'm seriously interested in hearing differnt peoples' opinions. Thank you.

Deity_Slapper

Did create this account just to make religion topics on OT?

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]I think that you're mistaking the definition of the kind of faith a Christian has. It's not the same kind of fait that you'd have in a sports team or something. It's given to us by God.Deity_Slapper

I don't understand. Especially the bold part. Can you expand on that, please?

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

You can't also say that you "know" god. You couldn't know him and simultaneously have faith that he exists at the same time. Knowledge replaces faith. For anything that has proven to be true, faith is no longer required.

The very fact that faith is required to believe in god proves that not one shred of evidence for god has ever been discovered. Obviously, otherwise faith would no longer be needed, correct? And if faith is still necessary to this day, thousands of years after the bible was written, hasn't it hit you yet that maybe this god guy isn't really there?

What do you think?

***DISCLAIMER: Be nice. I'm merely presenting an arguement. This is NOT a conversion attempt. This is NOT to cause division on the forums. This is for the sake of discussion. You do not have to participate if you don't want to. I'm not forcing anyone. I'm seriously interested in hearing differnt peoples' opinions. Thank you.

Frattracide

Did create this account just to make religion topics on OT?

Obviously, with a name like "Deity_Slapper", he's not here to creat controversy. :roll:

Did create this account just to make religion topics on OT?Frattracide

Check my post history for your answer. If you don't wanna do that, the answer is no. People think that's the case because of my user name, but that because I have the same username for other sites and I just kept it the same. I'm not only interested in religion, although I have noticed that gamespot is actually one of the best places to discuss religion, and has many intelligent users. So therefore, when I get the itch to discuss religion, I will most likely come to Gamespot.

Faith is instilled in us by the Holy Spirit during a baptism or other form of repentence.jim_shorts

How do you know this? Are you sure it is not just wishful thinking?

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"] Faith is instilled in us by the Holy Spirit during a baptism or other form of repentence.Deity_Slapper

How do you know this? Are you sure it is not just wishful thinking?

I think that you're mistaking the definition of the kind of faith a Christian has. It's not the same kind of fait that you'd have in a sports team or something. It's given to us by God.jim_shorts

why does god only give it to certain ppl. that seems unfair

Faith/knowing are not diametrically opposed.LJS9502_basic

I'm sorry, but I'm an idiot, as told by some of Gamespots' more illustrious members. Can you explain what you meant in simpleton terms for a maroon lke myself? (I also just like more in-depth posts. It gives me more to chew on.)

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"] Faith is instilled in us by the Holy Spirit during a baptism or other form of repentence.jim_shorts

How do you know this? Are you sure it is not just wishful thinking?

btw who wrote the bible? it wasnt god it was a group of guys who said they knew gods son. if ppl wrote a book like that now a days they would be called crazy.

I know this because the Bible says it's so. I have faith in everything the Bible says because the Holy Spirit gave me faith. It's a nice little circle.jim_shorts

I understand you have faith in the bible and in god. But how did you reach the conclusion that it was all real? How was it proven to you that the bible is actually an infallible, trustable source?

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]I know this because the Bible says it's so. I have faith in everything the Bible says because the Holy Spirit gave me faith. It's a nice little circle.Deity_Slapper

I understand you have faith in the bible and in god. But how did you reach the conclusion that it was all real? How was it proven to you that the bible is actually an infallible, trustable source?

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]I think that you're mistaking the definition of the kind of faith a Christian has. It's not the same kind of fait that you'd have in a sports team or something. It's given to us by God.nippon_gamer

why does god only give it to certain ppl. that seems unfair

I'd just like to say that if you are going to go ahead and question if He really exists or not, it would be wise to capitalize the G in God and the "B" in Bible. That's just a little something that gets on my nerves.

It's really hard to explain, but if you have faith in God, you have faith in the Word of God.jim_shorts

Well, could you try to explain it a little? Because to me, an answer like that just isn't satisfactory. Sorry.

ugggghhhhhhHalf-Life_man

Don't like? Don't post. Goodbye.

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]It's really hard to explain, but if you have faith in God, you have faith in the Word of God.Deity_Slapper

Well, could you try to explain it a little? Because to me, an answer like that just isn't satisfactory. Sorry.

its bs so its impossible to explain

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]It's really hard to explain, but if you have faith in God, you have faith in the Word of God.Deity_Slapper

Well, could you try to explain it a little? Because to me, an answer like that just isn't satisfactory. Sorry.

You can't also say that you "know" god. You couldn't know him and simultaneously have faith that he exists at the same time. Knowledge replaces faith. For anything that has proven to be true, faith is no longer required.

The very fact that faith is required to believe in god proves that not one shred of evidence for god has ever been discovered. Obviously, otherwise faith would no longer be needed, correct? And if faith is still necessary to this day, thousands of years after the bible was written, hasn't it hit you yet that maybe this god guy isn't really there?

What do you think?

***DISCLAIMER: Be nice. I'm merely presenting an arguement. This is NOT a conversion attempt. This is NOT to cause division on the forums. This is for the sake of discussion. You do not have to participate if you don't want to. I'm not forcing anyone. I'm seriously interested in hearing differnt peoples' opinions. Thank you.

Deity_Slapper

You said you had a better argument but you used the same one in the last topic you made.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]It's really hard to explain, but if you have faith in God, you have faith in the Word of God.jim_shorts

Well, could you try to explain it a little? Because to me, an answer like that just isn't satisfactory. Sorry.

again why did god chose that time period? why doesnt he let ppl write about him any more? no more updates god? cause you know there are still crazy ppl like paul who think god talks to them..

You said you had a better argument but you used the same one in the last topic you made.

Kashi_901

I brought it up later in the thread. This thread was to expand on that thought. Is something wrong with that?

And I have more ideas...they'll come later. Thanks for being my stalker though, I feel popular now.

[QUOTE="Kashi_901"]

You said you had a better argument but you used the same one in the last topic you made.

Deity_Slapper

I brought it up later in the thread. This thread was to expand on that thought. Is something wrong with that?

And I have more ideas...they'll come later. Thanks for being my stalker though, I feel popular now.

I'm not stalking you but you said you have a better argument and you didn't . (does thinking hurt you that much?):P

again why did god chose that time period? why doesnt he let ppl write about him any more? no more updates god? cause you know there are still crazy ppl like paul who think god talks to them..nippon_gamer

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]It's really hard to explain, but if you have faith in God, you have faith in the Word of God.jim_shorts

Well, could you try to explain it a little? Because to me, an answer like that just isn't satisfactory. Sorry.

God did not dictate the bible to these people. Nor did he write it through them.

They wrote it, based on devine revalation and inspiration. This doesn't discredit the bible though.

And i'm a christian.

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]I think that you're mistaking the definition of the kind of faith a Christian has. It's not the same kind of fait that you'd have in a sports team or something. It's given to us by God.nippon_gamer

why does god only give it to certain ppl. that seems unfair

Well, the Bible wasn't written by Moses, Paul, John, ect., it was written through them by God. Some people (such as yourself) have a very hard time believing that, but with the help of the faith that God has given me, I have no problem believing that.jim_shorts

Of course I have a hard time believing it. There's not a shred of proof. Can you blame me for that? You wouldn't believe me if I told you I flew around town on a unicorns' back last night, and when I came home, I shared a ham sandwich with the monster under my bed. Why? Because of logic. I'm just applying the same logic to the creation story as well. Without proof, I'm not inclined to believe.

And if the bible was written by god, why doesn't it say "Written by: god" on the cover? All authors are very proud of their work and would not allow anyone to not give them credit for it, or even steal the credit away from them. Why would god just let these guys put their names all over the books in the bible?I'm not 100% sure, but I don't ever remember seeing in the bible where it said it was written by god. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to have the wrong information.

It depends on your definition of the word faith.gobo212

There's only one definition of faith, but there's a lot of things that can fuel it. One thing I think about when I have religious problems, you know, like how can I be sure that God's real? My only answer is there isn't an answer. But I think about things I have seen. Things that prove that God and the devil work in the world. Good things and bad things happening. Acts of love and hate. What happened a year ago? The VT shooting. And the creation of this thread and other things that I believe the devil uses try to blind people, not make them see.

Just my personal opinion. For as much as atheists try to talk about proof, there's not a shred of proof that the big bang happened. It's still just a theory. So don't try to tell me about faith. Just look at all the things, good and bad, that happen in the world. There aren't too many explanations.

Again, just my personal opinion.

It depends on your definition of the word faith.gobo212

exactly

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]Well, the Bible wasn't written by Moses, Paul, John, ect., it was written through them by God. Some people (such as yourself) have a very hard time believing that, but with the help of the faith that God has given me, I have no problem believing that.Deity_Slapper

Of course I have a hard time believing it. There's not a shred of proof. Can you blame me for that? You wouldn't believe me if I told you I flew around town on a unicorns' back last night, and when I came home, I shared a ham sandwich with the monster under my bed. Why? Because of logic. I'm just applying the same logic to the creation story as well. Without proof, I'm not inclined to believe.

And if the bible was written by god, why doesn't it say "Written by: god" on the cover? All authors are very proud of their work and would not allow anyone to not give them credit for it, or even steal the credit away from them. Why would god just let these guys put their names all over the books in the bible?I'm not 100% sure, but I don't ever remember seeing in the bible where it said it was written by god. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to have the wrong information.

[QUOTE="nippon_gamer"]again why did god chose that time period? why doesnt he let ppl write about him any more? no more updates god? cause you know there are still crazy ppl like paul who think god talks to them..jim_shorts

Cause we're all human

And the creation of this thread and other things that I believe the devil uses try to blind people, not make them see.master-dude

So now I'm evil, and working with Satan...classic. :roll:

I guarantee you I am not evil, and I don't believe Satan exists, so how could I be working with him?

For as much as atheists try to talk about proof, there's not a shred of proof that the big bang happened. master-dude

I'm an atheist, yet I do not subscribe to the big bang theory. I only believe in what my eyes have seen, my ears have heard, my skin has touched, etc. What else could I claim to know? Don't lump all atheists together. To me, a "big bang" is just another word for "orgy". :)

[QUOTE="master-dude"]

And the creation of this thread and other things that I believe the devil uses try to blind people, not make them see.Deity_Slapper

So now I'm evil, and working with Satan...classic. :roll:

I guarantee you I am not evil, and I don't believe Satan exists, so how could I be working with him?

For as much as atheists try to talk about proof, there's not a shred of proof that the big bang happened. master-dude

I'm an atheist, yet I do not subscribe to the big bang theory. I only believe in what my eyes have seen, my ears have heard, my skin has touched, etc. What else could I claim to know? Don't lump all atheists together. To me, a "big bang" is just another word for "orgy". :)

There must be a whole lot of stuff you don't believe in if you have to physically see, hear or feel something directly to believe it.

[QUOTE="master-dude"]

And the creation of this thread and other things that I believe the devil uses try to blind people, not make them see.Deity_Slapper

So now I'm evil, and working with Satan...classic. :roll:

I guarantee you I am not evil, and I don't believe Satan exists, so how could I be working with him?

For as much as atheists try to talk about proof, there's not a shred of proof that the big bang happened. master-dude

I'm an atheist, yet I do not subscribe to the big bang theory. I only believe in what my eyes have seen, my ears have heard, my skin has touched, etc. What else could I claim to know? Don't lump all atheists together. To me, a "big bang" is just another word for "orgy". :)

Faith is instilled in us by the Holy Spirit during a baptism or other form of repentence.jim_shorts

I'm baptized...

and very atheist.

[QUOTE="gobo212"]It depends on your definition of the word faith.master-dude

There's only one definition of faith, but there's a lot of things that can fuel it. One thing I think about when I have religious problems, you know, like how can I be sure that God's real? My only answer is there isn't an answer. But I think about things I have seen. Things that prove that God and the devil work in the world. Good things and bad things happening. Acts of love and hate. What happened a year ago? The VT shooting. And the creation of this thread and other things that I believe the devil uses try to blind people, not make them see.

Just my personal opinion. For as much as atheists try to talk about proof, there's not a shred of proof that the big bang happened. It's still just a theory. So don't try to tell me about faith. Just look at all the things, good and bad, that happen in the world. There aren't too many explanations.

Again, just my personal opinion.

There are many explanations. This is what irks me about religion...it's attempt to simplify everything around us. Good and evil, black and white. It's not that simple. There are a multitude of factors in play that cause different events to happen. The VT shooter had mental problems that he had gone through treatment in the past. Perhaps he constantly heard voices in his head. He was isolated at school. Was he high on drugs? Who knows what else? Many things caused his horrific rampage, not some simplistic notion that we can wave our hands at and simply label as "evil".

There must be a whole lot of stuff you don't believe in if you have to physically see, hear or feel something directly to believe it.gobo212

Well......I suppose that would be so, but that's only because there's so much in the world that is unknown. There's a lot to not believe in, at least as of right now. But also, since all 5 of my senses are constantly activated, the things that I have experienced with them ( and have become knowledge to me) have also been of large quantity. You can learn a lot just by being alive...

[QUOTE="nippon_gamer"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]I think that you're mistaking the definition of the kind of faith a Christian has. It's not the same kind of fait that you'd have in a sports team or something. It's given to us by God.Spartan-4295

why does god only give it to certain ppl. that seems unfair

but what if i already accepted santa as my savior? at least he gives me presents what has jesus ever done for me except die? losta ppl have died.

[QUOTE="Spartan-4295"]Well you must accept Christ as your Savior! nippon_gamer

but what if i already accepted santa as my savior? at least he gives me presents what has jesus ever done for me except die? losta ppl have died.

Is a savior even necessary? What are we being saved from?

[QUOTE="Spartan-4295"][QUOTE="nippon_gamer"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]I think that you're mistaking the definition of the kind of faith a Christian has. It's not the same kind of fait that you'd have in a sports team or something. It's given to us by God.nippon_gamer

why does god only give it to certain ppl. that seems unfair

but what if i already accepted santa as my savior? at least he gives me presents what has jesus ever done for me except die? losta ppl have died.

[QUOTE="gobo212"]There must be a whole lot of stuff you don't believe in if you have to physically see, hear or feel something directly to believe it.Deity_Slapper

Well......I suppose that would be so, but that's only because there's so much in the world that is unknown. There's a lot to not believe in, at least as of right now. But also, since all 5 of my senses are constantly activated, the things that I have experienced with them ( and have become knowledge to me) have also been of large quantity. You can learn a lot just by being alive...

But that means you don't believe anything you read in a book? So you don't believe that anything in history books ever happened? You don't believe the Eiffel Tower exists because you haven't seen it (If you have actually seen it just insert some other landmark you have heard about but not witnessed first hand)?

According to christianity...el_carl

How about according to you? What do you say?

Jesus died so our sins would be forgiven. el_carl

Then what's the point of repentance?

Also, am I free to sin? I can go on a rampage and commit mass murder, correct? My sins are forgiven, right? No matter what?

Now, we can go to heaven after we die without having to confess our sins to a priest and kill an animal. el_carl

So Jesus died so that you could keep all your sins a secret?

[QUOTE="nippon_gamer"][QUOTE="Spartan-4295"]Well you must accept Christ as your Savior! Deity_Slapper

but what if i already accepted santa as my savior? at least he gives me presents what has jesus ever done for me except die? losta ppl have died.

Is a savior even necessary? What are we being saved from?

The need for a savior comes out of our cultural idea that humans are inherently flawed (which I don't believe they are).

[QUOTE="el_carl"] According to christianity...Deity_Slapper

How about according to you? What do you say?

Jesus died so our sins would be forgiven. el_carl

Then what's the point of repentance?

Also, am I free to sin? I can go on a rampage and commit mass murder, correct? My sins are forgiven, right? No matter what?

Now, we can go to heaven after we die without having to confess our sins to a priest and kill an animal. el_carl

So Jesus died so that you could keep all your sins a secret?

But that means you don't believe anything you read in a book? So you don't believe that anything in history books ever happened? You don't believe the Eiffel Tower exists because you haven't seen it (If you have actually seen it just insert some other landmark you have heard about but not witnessed first hand)?gobo212

I know the Eiffel Tower exists for 2 reasons:

1. I saw it in photos & videos, pre-photoshop era.

2. Many people have spoke of seeing it. But unlike a deity, where people always confuse a feeling they have as being something from god, the Eiffel Tower is an actual physical thing, and no faith is required to believe it's there. If anyone doesn't believe, they can check for themselves. That's doesn't work with "god".

As far as history books are concerned, this may shock you, but I am a bit skeptical about how certain events in history actually went down. I mean, as with any story, after it's been passed around a few times, it can become altered from it's original state. For example, how do we know that the events surrounding the Boston Tea Party happened EXACTLY as a history book claimed? There may be a lot of true points within, but how do we know things weren't altered for dramatic effect, or even that certain parts were omitted because maybe a certain person in power might not want the masses to know about it? Things happen like that all the time.