For those of you who have faith in god...

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blackngold29

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#151 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"] You can feel wind? Fine, I can feel God. Next question.Deity_Slapper

Wind can be proven. It's a physical force experienced by all creatures and structures big and small. God? Nope. Prove to me that what you felt was god. It could have been anything, but you just want to believe it's god...for whatever reason. I guess for comfort or something...

You prove to me that it wasn't God, and I'll believe.

See it works both ways.

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Deity_Slapper

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#152 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"] I have enough friends anyway. Big deal.blackngold29
You don't have any on GameSpot.

I had plenty on my old account. They don't know I'm here on this name yet. Gamespot is a website anyway. With little e-friends. Wow. I cherish my actual real life friends a lot more anyway.

How silly.

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blackngold29

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#153 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"] I have enough friends anyway. Big deal.Deity_Slapper

You don't have any on GameSpot.

I had plenty on my old account. They don't know I'm here on this name yet. Gamespot is a website anyway. With little e-friends. Wow. I cherish my actual real life friends a lot more anyway.

How silly.

I wonder why you got banned the first time? Hmm..tough one.
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abdelmessih101

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#154 abdelmessih101
Member since 2007 • 5230 Posts

[QUOTE="abdelmessih101"] How can you expect God to reveal Himself to you if you don't believe in Him or have faith in Him? Deity_Slapper

That's why I don't believe.

God will eventually reveal Himself to you and you will begin to develop a relationship with Him. abdelmessih101

He has yet to reveal himself to ANYONE. Why do you think faith is still necessary for the belief in god? He has yet to show himself in any way.

God performs miracles in order to reassure His followers that He is still there watching over us abdelmessih101

Proof of this?

God will not reveal Himself to you if you question Him.

abdelmessih101

I guess everyone questions god then, cause he hasn't revealed himself to any of you. Or anyone. Period.

If you're not willing to believe that I have experienced God in my life, then nothing I say matters to you. I KNOW God exists from my own experiences, and if you can't wrap your head around that then oh well. And next time, read all of my posts before responding to me, and don't take my words out of context because the context is essential in order to understand my argument. You know what, let me compile all of the posts I've made in this thread, and maybe you will start to see where I'm coming from here.

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Deity_Slapper

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#155 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
You prove to me that it wasn't God, and I'll believe.

See it works both ways.

blackngold29

It's all logic. You see, since god himself can't even be proven to begin with, then it's even sillier to attribute unknown things to him as well.

At least if god existed and you gave him credit for something - even if it wasn't from him - it would still carry some weight of respectability just by being a possibility. Until you prove the existence of god himself though, you really can't be placing attributes or characteristics on him either. That's like buying pictures for the walls and furniture for the living room before you even have the house!

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elblanquito_81

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#156 elblanquito_81
Member since 2007 • 4356 Posts

[QUOTE="elblanquito_81"]See, it's these types of immature responses from you that show what you're really about. Mainly that you're only here to get your jollies by poking fun at others who provide you with reasonable responses to your "questions."Deity_Slapper

You act as if your crap don't stink. You get your jollies by playing forum police. Gimme a break.

Actually, no it doesn't. Besides, all I'm doing is pointing out the obvious, does it bother you that much?
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Deity_Slapper

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#157 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

I wonder why you got banned the first time? Hmm..tough one.blackngold29

I left voluntarily. I decided to come back, and I wanted a fresh start. I didn't like my old username anyway. I've been gone for about a year, posting mostly on IGN in the meantime.

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Deity_Slapper

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#158 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

Actually, no it doesn't. Besides, all I'm doing is pointing out the obvious, does it bother you that much?elblanquito_81

Nope. I don't take you seriously. I've been laughing through most of this thread cause I'm having fun. And even though you're kind of pesky, your avatar makes me laugh too, so I'm glad you're around.

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blackngold29

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#159 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
[QUOTE="blackngold29"] You prove to me that it wasn't God, and I'll believe.

See it works both ways.

Deity_Slapper

It's all logic. You see, since god himself can't even be proven to begin with, then it's even sillier to attribute unknown things to him as well.

At least if god existed and you gave him credit for something - even if it wasn't from him - it would still carry some weight of respectability just by being a possibility. Until you prove the existence of god himself though, you really can't be placing attributes or characteristics on him either. That's like buying pictures for the walls and furniture for the living room before you even have the house!

God cannot be scientifically proven. It's all relativism, I believe in him, therefore he exists; You do not believe in him, therefore he does not exist.

And what's wrong with buying pictures before you buy a house?

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abdelmessih101

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#160 abdelmessih101
Member since 2007 • 5230 Posts

Knowing God exists doesn't replace the concept of faith. You forget how easy it is for someone to lose faith is God, especially in this day and age. The devil is constantly working to break your faith, and even if you know God exists, you must have faith that He will always watch over you, even when it seems that there's no hope, you must remain faithful.

A good analogy to this concept would be knowing that a person is kind-hearted and willing to help you. Knowing that this person is kind doesn't replace the faith you have that he will be there for you when you need him. If that person lets you down, you may lose your faith in him, even though you know that he is a good person.

So, my knowledge of God existing doesn't replace the faith that I have that He is merciful, just, and loving. I can lose faith in God even though I know that God exists. In other words, knowledge of something doesn't necessary mean that you faith in it.

They are related though. As you learn more about God through a relationship with Him, through prayer, and through reading the Bible, you will gain more faith in God. However, you may know a lot about God and still choose not to have faith in him. In fact, you may lose faith as you gain knowledge about certain things (not related to religion necessarily).

In conclusion, knowledge certainly doesn't replace faith, but they are related, sometimes directly, and sometimes, inversely.


Well said mindstorm. God, Christianity, and the Bible are certainly not things I believe in blindly. I believe because of my own experiences with God working in my life, and in the lives of my family and friends. I always question the beliefs of my church to my teachers at my youth group cIasses in church, and so far, all of the questions I've asked about these beliefs have been answered, and that is why I choose to believe them too. I certainly would never believe in these things without a reason and/or proof that they are right and righteous. Trust me, I have just as much thirst for knowledge, especially about religion, as you do, TC. So far, God hasn't let me down and I can say definitively at this point that I know He never will let me down. How can you expect God to reveal Himself to you if you don't believe in Him or have faith in Him? Here is one of many miracles God has done in the past century to prove His existence. Now all you have to do is follow His commandments according to the Bible, pray, and have faith. If you do so, God will eventually reveal Himself to you and you will begin to develop a relationship with Him.


God performs miracles in order to reassure His followers that He is still there watching over us and also to convert nonbelievers. Once you begin to have faith and follow God's guidelines given in the Bible, He will reveal Himself to you. God will not reveal Himself to you if you question Him. It says in the Bible that you are not to 'test' God, i.e. say "if God exists then He will save me if I jump off this cliff?" which is essentially what you're doing by having the mindset that you will not believe in Him unless He reveals Himself to you. You're basically saying, "if You are real, then prove it to me?" which is just wrong and not how it works.


God can't be proven scientifically, but He certainly has to proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that He exists and loves me and guides me and watches over me. That's why I believe - because I've experienced God in my life and in the lives of my family and friends.

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blackngold29

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#161 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

[QUOTE="elblanquito_81"]Actually, no it doesn't. Besides, all I'm doing is pointing out the obvious, does it bother you that much?Deity_Slapper

Nope. I don't take you seriously. I've been laughing through most of this thread cause I'm having fun. And even though you're kind of pesky, your avatar makes me laugh too, so I'm glad you're around.

So if it's all real funny and a big joke, not to be taken seriously; then howabout tomorrow in your nightly God bashing thread, you make a serious point and make an effort to see what the other side of the argument is.
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gobo212

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#162 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="elblanquito_81"]Actually, no it doesn't. Besides, all I'm doing is pointing out the obvious, does it bother you that much?blackngold29

Nope. I don't take you seriously. I've been laughing through most of this thread cause I'm having fun. And even though you're kind of pesky, your avatar makes me laugh too, so I'm glad you're around.

So if it's all real funny and a big joke, not to be taken seriously; then howabout tomorrow in your nightly God bashing thread, you make a serious point and make an effort to see what the other side of the argument is.

But that might take some serious thought!!!

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Deity_Slapper

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#163 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

And what's wrong with buying pictures before you buy a house?blackngold29

Are you gonna carry them around with you walking the streets? How about the furniture? You gonna lug that around too?

See what I'm saying? You don't even know if god really exists. You have no clue what he would look like. Etc. Yet, you want to play dress-up and give him all these characteristics and abilities that only comes from your well of wishful thinking. I don't know why you can't see this.

I used to be religious. I used to believe in god. Why do you think I understand that mindstate so much?!?! I've been on both sides. I know you don't believe me, but believe me...ha ha...seriously, it's all a load of crap to control peoples' thought processes, as well as to rake in massive profits, tax-free. Religion is a con-mans' dream.

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Deity_Slapper

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#164 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

But that might take some serious thought!!!gobo212

Attempt at hurting my feelings: FAILED.

Like I don't know who I am...like I don't know I'm smart...c'mon dude, leave that kind of stuff on the playground where it belongs.

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blackngold29

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#165 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]And what's wrong with buying pictures before you buy a house?Deity_Slapper

Are you gonna carry them around with you walking the streets? How about the furniture? You gonna lug that around too?

See what I'm saying? You don't even know if god really exists. You have no clue what he would look like. Etc. Yet, you want to play dress-up and give him all these characteristics and abilities that only comes from your well of wishful thinking. I don't know why you can't see this.

I used to be religious. I used to believe in god. Why do you think I understand that mindstate so much?!?! I've been on both sides. I know you don't believe me, but believe me...ha ha...seriously, it's all a load of crap to control peoples' thought processes, as well as to rake in massive profits, tax-free. Religion is a con-mans' dream.

You never said that I was living on the street, with no place to store my picture.

And you don't seem like you "understand the mindset" very well, you just shoot down arguments any way you can.

And I agree that tax-free religions are BS. Then again we're talking about personal relationships with God, not religions.

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Deity_Slapper

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#166 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
You never said that I was living on the street, with no place to store my picture.

blackngold29

It was implied, but I guess I have to spell everything out for you guys...

And you don't seem like you "understand the mindset" very well, you just shoot down arguments any way you can.

blackngold29

Ha ha....you know what's funny? I used to be just like you. When I believed in this scam, I would defend my beliefs till I was out of breath. I battled all the "evil atheists" till we just wanted to go to sleep. I eventually woke up, and you probably will too. It's only a matter of time. ;)

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abdelmessih101

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#167 abdelmessih101
Member since 2007 • 5230 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]And what's wrong with buying pictures before you buy a house?Deity_Slapper

Are you gonna carry them around with you walking the streets? How about the furniture? You gonna lug that around too?

See what I'm saying? You don't even know if god really exists. You have no clue what he would look like. Etc. Yet, you want to play dress-up and give him all these characteristics and abilities that only comes from your well of wishful thinking. I don't know why you can't see this.

I used to be religious. I used to believe in god. Why do you think I understand that mindstate so much?!?! I've been on both sides. I know you don't believe me, but believe me...ha ha...seriously, it's all a load of crap to control peoples' thought processes, as well as to rake in massive profits, tax-free. Religion is a con-mans' dream.

I don't know what you're experiences have been, but apparently you've never experienced God in your life. I certainly have, as well as millions of other Christians, and that's why I believe. I don't believe because I'm told to; I believe because I have experienced God in my life and because all of my beliefs make sense. I'm not one to believe something blindly; I question the beliefs of my church every day and I've gotten answers to all of my questions, afterwhich I accept that belief.

Again, if you're too stubborn and close-minded to believe me when I say that I've experienced God in my life, then I truly feel sorry for you.

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Deity_Slapper

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#168 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts

But, I have to go now, I gotta close up my shift and go home. But seriously, I want you guys to know I have no hard feelings towards anyone. I wouldn't be here debating if it made me uncomfortable. It might have seemed like I was being abrasive, but again, things on the internet can be misinterpereted easily, and I only had intentions of challenging your beliefs. Not to smear them. It was supposed to be constructive criticism.

I used to believe too. I remember how much it meant to me. I'm only doing this because of all the pain religion has caused many people. I'm just doing my duty to try and rid the world of the evil that you guys trust so much as being your anchor. You don't have to agree with me, but I appreciate the conversation, regardless. Even the heated moments. Anyway, peace, and take care of yourselves.

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blackngold29

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#169 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
[QUOTE="blackngold29"] You never said that I was living on the street, with no place to store my picture.

Deity_Slapper

It was implied, but I guess I have to spell everything out for you guys...

And you don't seem like you "understand the mindset" very well, you just shoot down arguments any way you can.

blackngold29

Ha ha....you know what's funny? I used to be just like you. When I believed in this scam, I would defend my beliefs till I was out of breath. I battled all the "evil atheists" till we just wanted to go to sleep. I eventually woke up, and you probably will too. It's only a matter of time. ;)

Implied how?

I've had the same thoughts you did, You chose atheist, I chose God. So worst case and God doesn't exist, we're even. (That's called Pascal's Wager). I don't think atheists are evil either, try not to label me.

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Deity_Slapper

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#170 Deity_Slapper
Member since 2008 • 2615 Posts
I don't know what you're experiences have been, but apparently you've never experienced God in your life. I certainly have, as well as millions of other Christians, and that's why I believe. I don't believe because I'm told to; I believe because I have experienced God in my life and because all of my beliefs make sense. I'm not one to believe something blindly; I question the beliefs of my church every day and I've gotten answers to all of my questions, afterwhich I accept that belief.

Again, if you're too stubborn and close-minded to believe me when I say that I've experienced God in my life, then I truly feel sorry for you.

abdelmessih101

I'll respond to this post tomorrow. I've got some things to say about it. Later.

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blackngold29

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#171 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
I used to believe too. I remember how much it meant to me. I'm only doing this because of all the pain religion has caused many people. I'm just doing my duty to try and rid the world of the evil that you guys trust so much as being your anchor. You don't have to agree with me, but I appreciate the conversation, regardless. Even the heated moments. Anyway, peace, and take care of yourselves.Deity_Slapper
God is evil...Lol.
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gobo212

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#172 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="blackngold29"] You never said that I was living on the street, with no place to store my picture.

blackngold29

It was implied, but I guess I have to spell everything out for you guys...

And you don't seem like you "understand the mindset" very well, you just shoot down arguments any way you can.

blackngold29

Ha ha....you know what's funny? I used to be just like you. When I believed in this scam, I would defend my beliefs till I was out of breath. I battled all the "evil atheists" till we just wanted to go to sleep. I eventually woke up, and you probably will too. It's only a matter of time. ;)

Implied how?

I've had the same thoughts you did, You chose atheist, I chose God. So worst case and God doesn't exist, we're even. (That's called Pascal's Wager). I don't think atheists are evil either, try not to label me.

I can't stand Pascal's Wager. The whole idea that you can achieve salvation simply because you want to avoid the possibility of punishment seems ridiculous to me. Then again I don't really think humans are fundamentally flawed so I don't really buy the whole idea of salvation anyway.

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gobo212

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#173 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"] I used to believe too. I remember how much it meant to me. I'm only doing this because of all the pain religion has caused many people. I'm just doing my duty to try and rid the world of the evil that you guys trust so much as being your anchor. You don't have to agree with me, but I appreciate the conversation, regardless. Even the heated moments. Anyway, peace, and take care of yourselves.blackngold29
God is evil...Lol.

That does pretty much go completely against the Abrahamic conception of God doesn't it.

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blackngold29

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#174 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
I can't stand Pascal's Wager. The whole idea that you can achieve salvation simply because you want to avoid the possibility of punishment seems ridiculous to me. Then again I don't really think humans are fundamentally flawed so I don't really buy the whole idea of salvation anyway.gobo212
All Pascal said was that the only "logical" choice was to believe in God, I don't think he was trying to convince people one way or the other, his personal beliefs were not part of it.
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gobo212

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#175 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts

[QUOTE="gobo212"]I can't stand Pascal's Wager. The whole idea that you can achieve salvation simply because you want to avoid the possibility of punishment seems ridiculous to me. Then again I don't really think humans are fundamentally flawed so I don't really buy the whole idea of salvation anyway.blackngold29
All Pascal said was that the only "logical" choice was to believe in God, I don't think he was trying to convince people one way or the other, his personal beliefs were not part of it.

You are right that Pascal was simply making a point but many people attempt to use it as a conversion tool and that to me flies in the face of what Christianity stands for. You shouldn't accept Jesus as your savior simply because it might get you off the hook (and by "hook" I of course mean eternal suffering).

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abdelmessih101

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#176 abdelmessih101
Member since 2007 • 5230 Posts

But, I have to go now, I gotta close up my shift and go home. But seriously, I want you guys to know I have no hard feelings towards anyone. I wouldn't be here debating if it made me uncomfortable. It might have seemed like I was being abrasive, but again, things on the internet can be misinterpereted easily, and I only had intentions of challenging your beliefs. Not to smear them. It was supposed to be constructive criticism.

I used to believe too. I remember how much it meant to me. I'm only doing this because of all the pain religion has caused many people. I'm just doing my duty to try and rid the world of the evil that you guys trust so much as being your anchor. You don't have to agree with me, but I appreciate the conversation, regardless. Even the heated moments. Anyway, peace, and take care of yourselves.

Deity_Slapper

For when you get back, I'm just curious which specific branch of Christianity did you believe in before you "woke up." I'm a Coptic Orthodox Christian because we (and our sister churches) are the only ones to keep the same doctrine from the time of Jesus and His disciples, and therefore we are the only church with a complete Christian doctrine. The doctrines of other branches such as Catholic and Protestant are not neccessarily incorrect, rather incomplete. I have a feeling that you were severely misguided in your former beliefs and have thus become so vehemently opposed to the belief in God. That's really too bad because you seem like a nice person - too bad the devil has fooled you into believing that religion is a scam - my church has only led me in the right path and has not scammed anyone. It is the devil who is scamming you, my friend, and I can only pray that you and others will realize this. Good night and take care. :)

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blackngold29

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#177 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="gobo212"]I can't stand Pascal's Wager. The whole idea that you can achieve salvation simply because you want to avoid the possibility of punishment seems ridiculous to me. Then again I don't really think humans are fundamentally flawed so I don't really buy the whole idea of salvation anyway.gobo212

All Pascal said was that the only "logical" choice was to believe in God, I don't think he was trying to convince people one way or the other, his personal beliefs were not part of it.

You are right that Pascal was simply making a point but many people attempt to use it as a conversion tool and that to me flies in the face of what Christianity stands for. You shouldn't accept Jesus as your savior simply because it might get you off the hook (and by "hook" I of course mean eternal suffering).

I gotta say I agree with that, believing in God just to do it is worse than not believing at all.
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gobo212

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#178 gobo212
Member since 2003 • 6277 Posts
[QUOTE="gobo212"]

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="gobo212"]I can't stand Pascal's Wager. The whole idea that you can achieve salvation simply because you want to avoid the possibility of punishment seems ridiculous to me. Then again I don't really think humans are fundamentally flawed so I don't really buy the whole idea of salvation anyway.blackngold29

All Pascal said was that the only "logical" choice was to believe in God, I don't think he was trying to convince people one way or the other, his personal beliefs were not part of it.

You are right that Pascal was simply making a point but many people attempt to use it as a conversion tool and that to me flies in the face of what Christianity stands for. You shouldn't accept Jesus as your savior simply because it might get you off the hook (and by "hook" I of course mean eternal suffering).

I gotta say I agree with that, believing in God just to do it is worse than not believing at all.

You are a very sensible person. Sorry if I sounded hostile. :)