Freedom of speech in the U.S.

This gun is fantastic to kill anyone at long range its good over 2000 meters, one shot will kill regardless of where it hits due to blood loss alone and the force of a bullet, I suggest we post this on every fan site regardless of intent.

This gun is fantastic to kill anyone at long range its good over 2000 meters, one shot will kill regardless of where it hits due to blood loss alone and the force of a bullet, I suggest we post this on every fan site regardless of intent.

tenaka2

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

this kind of thing demonstrates that European nations, despite being more liberal and progressive in many ways than the US, suffer from their own drawbacks. no nation is perfect

tenaka2

So freedom of speech alllows anyone to make a sign sayiing anyone of any particular group is less then human is ok for Americans? this protects free speech?

uhhhh...... yeah. thats kinda the point of freedom of speech. in order for freedom of speech to exist, you cant simply censor ideas which you personally find unacceptable.

I hate homophobes (as anyone on this forum knows), but if they want to post a billboard that says "gays are servants of satan" than they have a right to do so. but I also have a right to post a billboard right next to it which says "satan > Fred Phelps." do you see how that works?

in a free society, both bad ideas and good ideas are allowed to express themselves. both popular and unpopular ideas need equal protection. and people who are unable to understand this are far more abrasive to a free and civilized society than any "white nationalist" or homophobe.

I wasn't expressing hatred so... yeah. That's kinda crucial.SolidSnake35

Oh it is? All you said was...

It's not about feelings. It's about what happens when feelings are hurt.SolidSnake35

Maybe I missed something earlier. Anyway, why does it matter if you're expressing hatred?You can be expressing a number of different sentiments and still hurt my feelings. And then: It's not about my hurt feelings, it's about what crazy, illegal thing I go and do after you hurt my feelings.

So stop posting. Because of this exchange, I may be angry when I go on my date this evening, and I might speed on the way there. Your insensitive comments could cause the law to be broken. Please stop posting and upsetting me.

Spouting racist comments, for example... you don't think that could lead to violence? It's not as direct as saying "go kill someone" but they're similar.SolidSnake35

I was watching re-runs of Chappell's Show the other day. I found some of his comments to be racist. They upset and offended me, and I believe they stir up racial hatred. It's not enough that I just go watch NCIS instead of Chappell re-runs. This show needs to be banned. The government has to ban it, right after they make you stop arguing with me on GameSpot and upsetting me.

In the U.K. the following rules apply.

Hate speech laws in theUnited Kingdomare found in several statutes. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden.Any communication which is threatening, abusive or insulting, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.

Do you think this law is wrong?

[QUOTE="BMD004"]That is beyond stupid. People are supposed to walk on egg shells so that they don't hurt anyone's feelings, or else get thrown in jail? Yeah, that sounds like a great place to live. This is one of those instances where this just isn't a government issue. It's a people issue. People deal with it with other people. Getting picked last at a playground basketball game also hurts people's feelings. It can ruin their self-esteem. So should the government step in and say that nobody can be picked last anymore? No... that is stupid. It's just part of life. It's just part of the way the world works. You can't look to the government to play God and control every aspect of people's lives. They should do their basic duties and just let people live.SolidSnake35

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

Censorship offends me. ~Author Unknown

We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ~John F. Kennedy

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Evelyn Beatrice Hall, The Friends of Voltaire, 1906

The populist authoritarianism that is the downside of political correctness means that anyone, sometimes it seems like everyone, can proclaim their grief and have it acknowledged. The victim culture, every sufferer grasping for their own Holocaust, ensures that anyone who feels offended can call for moderation, for dilution, and in the end, as is all too often the case, for censorship. And censorship, that by-product of fear - stemming as it does not from some positive agenda, but from the desire to escape our own terrors and superstitions by imposing them on others - must surely be resisted. ~Jonathon Green

In the U.K. the following rules apply.

Hate speech laws in theUnited Kingdomare found in several statutes. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden.Any communication which is threatening, abusive or insulting, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.

Do you think this law is wrong?

tenaka2

Palantas

[QUOTE="Palantas"] SolidSnake35

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="BMD004"]That is beyond stupid. People are supposed to walk on egg shells so that they don't hurt anyone's feelings, or else get thrown in jail? Yeah, that sounds like a great place to live. This is one of those instances where this just isn't a government issue. It's a people issue. People deal with it with other people. Getting picked last at a playground basketball game also hurts people's feelings. It can ruin their self-esteem. So should the government step in and say that nobody can be picked last anymore? No... that is stupid. It's just part of life. It's just part of the way the world works. You can't look to the government to play God and control every aspect of people's lives. They should do their basic duties and just let people live.BMD004

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

Censorship offends me. ~Author Unknown

We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. ~John F. Kennedy

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Evelyn Beatrice Hall, The Friends of Voltaire, 1906

The populist authoritarianism that is the downside of political correctness means that anyone, sometimes it seems like everyone, can proclaim their grief and have it acknowledged. The victim culture, every sufferer grasping for their own Holocaust, ensures that anyone who feels offended can call for moderation, for dilution, and in the end, as is all too often the case, for censorship. And censorship, that by-product of fear - stemming as it does not from some positive agenda, but from the desire to escape our own terrors and superstitions by imposing them on others - must surely be resisted. ~Jonathon Green

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Palantas"] BMD004

Americans like to think they have some sort of great freedom of speech when in reality they dont. Hey call a black cop a f*****g n****r and see what happens but i guess thats diff as long as you can call others that, well as long as its not a cop etc

Just out of interest... when I visit America, am I allowed to walk up to a police officer, who is having a friendly chat with a pregnant mother and her six year old daughter, and express my desire that they be mauled to death by a rabid dog?SolidSnake35

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="BMD004"]Being free from hatred is like being free from other's opinions. You don't live in a bubble... and as much as you'd like to try, you can't do it.BMD004

I am shocked and hurt at your continual assault on my emotions. Something must be done about this.

The point was always: "It's not about feelings. It's about what happens when feelings are hurt [following an expression of hatred]", since I thought that was implied. Why does it matter if you're expressing hated? Hatred is not a good thing. I want to be FREE from it.SolidSnake35

I want to be free from your disagreeable remarks. In fact, I want to be free from all people who rub me the wrong way. Make it so.

You going to answer any of this?

Anyway, why does it matter if you're expressing hatred? You can be expressing a number of different sentiments and still hurt my feelings. And then: It's not about my hurt feelings, it's about what crazy, illegal thing I go and do after you hurt my feelings.

I

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]Just out of interest... when I visit America, am I allowed to walk up to a police officer, who is having a friendly chat with a pregnant mother and her six year old daughter, and express my desire that they be mauled to death by a rabid dog?LJS9502_basic

Americans like to think they have some sort of great freedom of speech when in reality they dont. Hey call a black cop a f*****g n****r and see what happens but i guess thats diff as long as you can call others that, well as long as its not a cop etc

EmpCom

But that's bizarre. My words could terrify that little girl.SolidSnake35

Your attack on my opinions could beterrifying to me. Please stop. For heaven's sake, you are insulting me. Don't you know how important it is that I not be insulted? It is my right not to be insulted, and you are violating it.

I am shocked and hurt at your continual assault on my emotions. Something must be done about this.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]The point was always: "It's not about feelings. It's about what happens when feelings are hurt [following an expression of hatred]", since I thought that was implied. Why does it matter if you're expressing hated? Hatred is not a good thing. I want to be FREE from it.Palantas

I want to be free from your disagreeable remarks. In fact, I want to be free from all people who rub me the wrong way. Make it so.

You going to answer any of this?

Anyway, why does it matter if you're expressing hatred? You can be expressing a number of different sentiments and still hurt my feelings. And then: It's not about my hurt feelings, it's about what crazy, illegal thing I go and do after you hurt my feelings.

I

Americans like to think they have some sort of great freedom of speech when in reality they dont. Hey call a black cop a f*****g n****r and see what happens but i guess thats diff as long as you can call others that, well as long as its not a cop etc

EmpCom

I find both your criticism of my nation and your racist statement--even when used to illustrate a point--insulting. They stir up hatred and should be allowed. Please stop posting. You might insult me.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]But that's bizarre. My words could terrify that little girl.Palantas

Your attack on my opinions could beterrifying to me. Please stop. For heaven's sake, you are insulting me. Don't you know how important it is that I not be insulted? It is my right not to be insulted, and you are violating it.

I like where this thread is going. :roll:

[QUOTE="EmpCom"]

Americans like to think they have some sort of great freedom of speech when in reality they dont. Hey call a black cop a f*****g n****r and see what happens but i guess thats diff as long as you can call others that, well as long as its not a cop etc

BMD004

[QUOTE="Palantas"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]But that's bizarre. My words could terrify that little girl.SolidSnake35

Your attack on my opinions could beterrifying to me. Please stop. For heaven's sake, you are insulting me. Don't you know how important it is that I not be insulted? It is my right not to be insulted, and you are violating it.

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="EmpCom"]

Americans like to think they have some sort of great freedom of speech when in reality they dont. Hey call a black cop a f*****g n****r and see what happens but i guess thats diff as long as you can call others that, well as long as its not a cop etc

SolidSnake35

What kind of person wants freedoms limited? BMD004

I have no idea. You're arguing from a very odd perspective. I live in a country where this law exists. We don't have people complaining about assaults on their emotions. Maybe America just isn't ready for a law like this.SolidSnake35

Your inability to explain your confrontal ideas troubles and disturbs me. You must stop posting. You are hurting my feelings.

Actually you do have people complaining about assaults on their emotions:

On 4 March 2010, a jury returned a verdict of guilty against Harry Taylor, who was charged under Part 4A of the Public Order Act 1986. Taylor was charged because he left anti-religious cartoons in the prayer-room of Liverpool's John Lennon Airport on three occasions in 2008. The airport chaplain, who was insulted, offended, and alarmed by the cartoons, called the police. On 23 April 2010, Judge Charles James of Liverpool Crown Court sentenced Taylor to a six-month term of imprisonment suspended for two years, made him subject to a five-year Anti-Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) (which bans him from carrying religiously offensive material in a public place), ordered him to perform 100 hours of unpaid work, and ordered him to pay £250 costs. Taylor was convicted of similar offences in 2006.Wikipedia

Emphasis added. Your insult to my national origin insults, offends, and alarms me. Please stop posting.

It's a very tricky situation. I can definitely understand why you want laws against hate speech. But those laws do impinge upon freedom of expression. The "slippery slope" argument can apply, too. What is defined as hate speech? Could legitimate grievances be forbidden by manipulating this law? Etc. etc. I don't know. THere are often times when I see groups like the Westboro nutcases or the KKK and wish they could be stopped, but I understand the importance of having freedom of speech.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]What kind of person wants freedoms limited? SolidSnake35

It's not unchecked. People are fired from jobs and removed from public office due to insensitive remarks.

Once again, I am offended by your derogatory insuations about my country of origin. You must stop hurting my feelings. I might be so upset during my job tomorrow that I break the law by accidentally dropping a Power Bar wrapper on the ground. You never know what crazy, illegal thing someone will do if you hurt their poor feelings.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]What kind of person wants freedoms limited? SolidSnake35

It's wrong

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="BMD004"]You just don't get it. Nobody condones that type of behavior. But it is not against the law to express your opinion, even if is an unpopular opinion.BMD004

But also remember this, freedom of speech/expression in the US does not mean freedom from consequences. Lots of people have said stupid and hateful things and have suffered the consequences for it. They don't go to jail - it's not illegal, but people have lost their jobs, respect, money, etc. over their actions.

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] Of what opinion was he? He was showing total disrespect for that police officer and, as we learn in the classroom, certain amounts of respect are due if we are to progress anywhere in life.SolidSnake35

But also remember this, freedom of speech/expression in the US does not mean freedom from consequences. Lots of people have said stupid and hateful things and have suffered the consequences for it. They don't go to jail - it's not illegal, but people have lost their jobs, respect, money, etc. over their actions.

sonicare

I notice no one's touched the religion issue I raised earlier. There are a lot of threads on this forum arguing about religion, and a lot of insulting statements made by both sides on the issue (i.e., "The world would be better without religion," "Atheists are going to Hell"). The next time one of these comes up, I hope to see everyone supporting hate speech laws, in those threads reminding everyone not to stir up religious hatred. I mean...someone on GameSpot might get their feelings hurt, then go out and do something crazy because of it.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="BMD004"]Yes, but that isn't a government issue. Not every single thing in the world has to be regulated by government. Yes, respect is nice, and should be shown to everybody. But it isn't a law that you have to respect people. At the grocery store, when somebody says "thank you, have a nice day", I can very well turn to them and say "up yours, jackass", and I wouldn't have broken any laws. That wouldn't be nice, but there is no law that says you have to be nice to everybody and show everybody respect. And there shouldn't be that law.BMD004

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] Respect towards a police officer should be a legal issue. They ARE the law, to use a somewhat corny and American-sounding phrase.SolidSnake35

Respect towards a police officer should be a legal issue. They ARE the law, to use a somewhat corny and American-sounding phrase.SolidSnake35

What, like I should have to stand at attention and call him "officer," "trooper," or "sergeant"? Why should the law require me to say anything to the police besides, "Am I free to go?"

And you just won't stop insulting my country. I am so offended; I am going to cry tears into my martini tonight. Who is your MP? I need to write them and tell them they need to encourage more tolerance and less hate speech in your area.