Galtung: U.S. empire will fall by 2020

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Dr_Brocoli

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#51 Dr_Brocoli
Member since 2007 • 3724 Posts

Why do you ONLY post anti-US stuff? I mean seriously. :|

Pirate700
For instance, there are other posters who post only anti-Canadian/british threads.
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ghoklebutter

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#52 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts

Looks like you despise the USA, seeing from all the topics you make.

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theone86

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#53 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

Why do you ONLY post anti-US stuff? I mean seriously. :|

Pirate700

Because he's a liberal, that means he hates the U.S., duh.

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stupiddk

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#54 stupiddk
Member since 2003 • 2377 Posts

Im all for domestic protectionism. We need not rule the world, and the Afghanistan shirt quote was great and true.

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TBoogy

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#55 TBoogy
Member since 2007 • 4382 Posts

The mighty US empire, consisting of... the US and... uh, what?

GabuEx

Well, one could say (I"M not, just pointing it out) that our states are almost like European Nations. So our country is almost like 50+ regular sized countries.

edit: Seems like people DID say it already.

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curono

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#56 curono
Member since 2005 • 7722 Posts
Agreed. When decadence starts in a society, it is most times better a restart
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fidosim

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#57 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts

The mighty US empire, consisting of... the US and... uh, what?

GabuEx

Yeah, we don't like to annex territory, but we do enjoy building bases in our free time:

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HomicidalCherry

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#58 HomicidalCherry
Member since 2009 • 959 Posts

Before you flame me and ignore the the link,Johan Galtungsays the collapse of theUS empire will actually be good for Americans! He argues that the US will become more efficient, just like the Fench, British and Russia when their empires collapsed.

Better services, health care, improved schools etc !!

majwill24

The British experienced 30 years of economic stagnation after they gave up their empire, Russia is still in terrible shape, and America doesn't have an empire.

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tocklestein2005

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#59 tocklestein2005
Member since 2008 • 5532 Posts

The US is "too big to fail"..LOL!

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Stesilaus

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#60 Stesilaus
Member since 2007 • 4999 Posts

The American Empire will last as long as the world does!

Until 2012, that is. :P

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rzepak

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#61 rzepak
Member since 2005 • 5758 Posts

Its very likely that the US will experiance a major fall. Its already less influential around the world than it used to be and its perceived less favorably. The longer the war in the middle east continues the worse situation America will be in both finantially and hm how to call it....war against terrorism is a failure undermining the fear and respect some "enemy" countires had in the past. Whats more worrying than America loosing its status is the fact that in 25 years China will be the most dominant power in the world and Chinese democarcy will begin to be the standard.

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metroidfood

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#62 metroidfood
Member since 2007 • 11175 Posts

People thought we were toast in the 1970s. And the 1950s. And the 1940s. And the 1930s. And the 1880s. Are you seeing a pattern here?fidosim

That Civil War is going to be the end of the US for sure!

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#63 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="fidosim"]People thought we were toast in the 1970s. And the 1950s. And the 1940s. And the 1930s. And the 1880s. Are you seeing a pattern here?metroidfood

That Civil War is going to be the end of the US for sure!

Rebelling against England??? This will never work!
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#65 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

Its very likely that the US will experiance a major fall. Its already less influential around the world than it used to be and its perceived less favorably. The longer the war in the middle east continues the worse situation America will be in both finantially and hm how to call it....war against terrorism is a failure undermining the fear and respect some "enemy" countires had in the past. Whats more worrying than America loosing its status is the fact that in 25 years China will be the most dominant power in the world and Chinese democarcy will begin to be the standard.

rzepak
China isnt a democracy . . .
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#66 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
Agreed. When decadence starts in a society, it is most times better a restartcurono
Agreed. Down with all the west!
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HomicidalCherry

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#67 HomicidalCherry
Member since 2009 • 959 Posts

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]People thought we were toast in the 1970s. And the 1950s. And the 1940s. And the 1930s. And the 1880s. Are you seeing a pattern here?xaos

That Civil War is going to be the end of the US for sure!

Rebelling against England??? This will never work!

Are you mad???? The world is flat. You'll never make it to Asia!

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theafiguy

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#68 theafiguy
Member since 2006 • 962 Posts

US Empire? Since when are we an empire?

gameguy6700

My thoughts exactly.

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Kamekazi_69

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#69 Kamekazi_69
Member since 2006 • 4704 Posts
[QUOTE="HomicidalCherry"]

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="metroidfood"]

That Civil War is going to be the end of the US for sure!

Rebelling against England??? This will never work!

Are you mad???? The world is flat. You'll never make it to Asia!

Infidels. Use your reason!!!! WW2 is the end of the US!
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theafiguy

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#70 theafiguy
Member since 2006 • 962 Posts

[QUOTE="HomicidalCherry"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] Rebelling against England??? This will never work!Kamekazi_69

Are you mad???? The world is flat. You'll never make it to Asia!

Infidels. Use your reason!!!! WW2 is the end of the US!

No, just...no.

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Nintendevil

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#71 Nintendevil
Member since 2007 • 6598 Posts

I see no problems. We certainly have the power to obtain anything we wanted, but it's the politically correct BS that's in our way.

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leviathan91

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#72 leviathan91
Member since 2007 • 7763 Posts

Before you flame me and ignore the the link,Johan Galtungsays the collapse of theUS empire will actually be good for Americans! He argues that the US will become more efficient, just like the Fench, British and Russia when their empires collapsed.

Better services, health care, improved schools etc !!

majwill24

If the supposed US empire falls and becomes like France, Britain, and Russia then the US is screwed. The US can't afford to provide welfare, public healthcare, and government programs for every citizen, otherwise it will always be debt and the people will be reduced to living off the government. Worse, the demography would decrease because of reliance on government programs. Another problem is immigration. If immigrants just come to live off the government, taxes would increase and that's where the problem of demography will come in: There won't be enough people in the end. There's also the problem if the immigrants would integrate into society (which Europe is already suffering from due to most Muslim immigrants not integrating into society). In fact, a lot of problems I just listed are already European problems. As for education, yes the US's education sucks compared to European's but only because of the idiotic department of education, teacher tenure and unions, and lack of school choice and competition. Oveall, if the US will end up like Europe after their "empire" collapses, then I'm not going to look forward to it.

As for the US empire itself, the US does have a "cultural" empire but as an empire, I don't think it really exists. We have bases around the world granted, not to mention a strong but smallmilitary force that wouldn't be capable of taking over countries. But if the US does pull its troops from around the world, then the US would have little to worry about for some time. That is, until rogue nations begin to take advantage of the situation and attack. But that's me guessing. Europe, Japan, and South Korea have their own military forces but aren't really comparable to ours, nor as well-managed, plus I personally think Europe has already been conquered by multiculturism and political correctness.

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leviathan91

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#73 leviathan91
Member since 2007 • 7763 Posts

Its very likely that the US will experiance a major fall. Its already less influential around the world than it used to be and its perceived less favorably. The longer the war in the middle east continues the worse situation America will be in both finantially and hm how to call it....war against terrorism is a failure undermining the fear and respect some "enemy" countires had in the past. Whats more worrying than America loosing its status is the fact that in 25 years China will be the most dominant power in the world and Chinese democarcy will begin to be the standard.

rzepak

China is a democracy? :lol:

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Dante2710

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#74 Dante2710
Member since 2005 • 63164 Posts
i had no idea the US was an empire; i guess you do learn something new each day
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thelastguy

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#75 thelastguy
Member since 2007 • 12030 Posts

Nobody will know when or if the "Empire" will fall until it already has

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#76 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
Well, I disagree with the premise that there is an U.S. empire, so I don't know what exactly would be collapsing.
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12345678ew

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#77 12345678ew
Member since 2008 • 2353 Posts
it won't collapse. eventually we'll see we're falling off our high horse and drop the strategic arms reduction agreement.... that's the only reason the US and russia aren't still crushing everybody. the two are limited to i believe a 5 million standing army, no more than 1500 bombers, no more than 10,000 nuclear detonators, no more than 200 battleships, and no more than 50 nuclear submarines.
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TBoogy

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#78 TBoogy
Member since 2007 • 4382 Posts

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

Before you flame me and ignore the the link,Johan Galtungsays the collapse of theUS empire will actually be good for Americans! He argues that the US will become more efficient, just like the Fench, British and Russia when their empires collapsed.

Better services, health care, improved schools etc !!

leviathan91

If the supposed US empire falls and becomes like France, Britain, and Russia then the US is screwed. The US can't afford to provide welfare, public healthcare, and government programs for every citizen, otherwise it will always be debt and the people will be reduced to living off the government. Worse, the demography would decrease because of reliance on government programs. Another problem is immigration. If immigrants just come to live off the government, taxes would increase and that's where the problem of demography will come in: There won't be enough people in the end. There's also the problem if the immigrants would integrate into society (which Europe is already suffering from due to most Muslim immigrants not integrating into society). In fact, a lot of problems I just listed are already European problems. As for education, yes the US's education sucks compared to European's but only because of the idiotic department of education, teacher tenure and unions, and lack of school choice and competition. Oveall, if the US will end up like Europe after their "empire" collapses, then I'm not going to look forward to it.

As for the US empire itself, the US does have a "cultural" empire but as an empire, I don't think it really exists. We have bases around the world granted, not to mention a strong but smallmilitary force that wouldn't be capable of taking over countries. But if the US does pull its troops from around the world, then the US would have little to worry about for some time. That is, until rogue nations begin to take advantage of the situation and attack. But that's me guessing. Europe, Japan, and South Korea have their own military forces but aren't really comparable to ours, nor as well-managed, plus I personally think Europe has already been conquered by multiculturism and political correctness.

Three right wing "boogeyman" words in one post...

"welfare", and how it would make everyone want to live off the governement,

"Immigrants", and how they are gonna ruin the country,

and the new one everyone likes to use, "political corrrectness", which I really don't get. All that is is a nice way to say "Don't do anything that will make me knock you the hell out". Why is that so bad? may save your life one day.

And anyone who thinks multiculturalism is a bad thing I just will never understand. The different "flavors" of Chicago are the best thing about the place.

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danwallacefan

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#79 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

I'm surprised that this issue is so evenly divided. I figured that the GS community would overwhelmingly support a non-interventionist policy.

anyway, yes I agree that the American empire will by 2020, and I agree that it will by and large be very good for Americans. Rather than going to failed nation-building project, that money will be spent here in America either on social services or by consumers b/c of tax cuts.

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danwallacefan

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#80 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

Well, I disagree with the premise that there is an U.S. empire, so I don't know what exactly would be collapsing. -Sun_Tzu-
its certainly not like the British or Portuguese empires, but surely you agree that our military prowess gives us a great amount of influence abroad, influence which could be likened to an "empire" no?

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jetpower3

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#81 jetpower3
Member since 2005 • 11631 Posts

I'm surprised that this issue is so evenly divided. I figured that the GS community would overwhelmingly support a non-interventionist policy.

anyway, yes I agree that the American empire will by 2020, and I agree that it will by and large be very good for Americans. Rather than going to failed nation-building project, that money will be spent here in America either on social services or by consumers b/c of tax cuts.

danwallacefan

It seems that there's always someone who is going to intervene on the world stage. If it's not the U.S., it can easily be someone else. Power vacuums will always be filled.

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danwallacefan

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#82 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

I'm surprised that this issue is so evenly divided. I figured that the GS community would overwhelmingly support a non-interventionist policy.

anyway, yes I agree that the American empire will by 2020, and I agree that it will by and large be very good for Americans. Rather than going to failed nation-building project, that money will be spent here in America either on social services or by consumers b/c of tax cuts.

jetpower3

It seems that there's always someone who is going to intervene on the world stage. If it's not the U.S., it can easily be someone else. Power vaccums will always be filled.

I dont think that's true. The power of States seems to have waned significantly since the end of W.W.II. As free trade becomes more popular, protectionism , and foreign intervention with it, will become much less popular.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#83 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Well, I disagree with the premise that there is an U.S. empire, so I don't know what exactly would be collapsing. danwallacefan

its certainly not like the British or Portuguese empires, but surely you agree that our military prowess gives us a great amount of influence abroad, influence which could be likened to an "empire" no?

I can agree with that to an extent. It's one thing to say that the U.S. has a great amount of influence abroad, but I think concluding that the U.S. is therefore a de facto empire might be going a little too far. I don't doubt that the U.S. has had imperial ambitions throughout the 20th century, but in retrospect the U.S. really has failed miserably in the pursuit of said ambitions.
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jetpower3

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#84 jetpower3
Member since 2005 • 11631 Posts

[QUOTE="jetpower3"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

I'm surprised that this issue is so evenly divided. I figured that the GS community would overwhelmingly support a non-interventionist policy.

anyway, yes I agree that the American empire will by 2020, and I agree that it will by and large be very good for Americans. Rather than going to failed nation-building project, that money will be spent here in America either on social services or by consumers b/c of tax cuts.

danwallacefan

It seems that there's always someone who is going to intervene on the world stage. If it's not the U.S., it can easily be someone else. Power vacuums will always be filled.

I dont think that's true. The power of States seems to have waned significantly since the end of W.W.II. As free trade becomes more popular, protectionism , and foreign intervention with it, will become much less popular.

Even if it's not worldwide, it can easily be regional. Even if it's not nations, it can easily be other formidable organizations. In this current so-called "War on Terror", there are really no nations being fought. It's entirely terrorist and insurgent networks. It's clear many of them want an end to any form of western influence on the Middle East, but that is completely unrealistic. I'm afraid to see how much these organizations might flourish if the U.S. leaves a power vacuum behind. I'd recommend that the U.S. just finishes off whatever commitments it currently has, and then get out of the interventionist stage. But until then, premature withdrawal is never a good idea, and will only create more problems.

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jetpower3

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#85 jetpower3
Member since 2005 • 11631 Posts

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Well, I disagree with the premise that there is an U.S. empire, so I don't know what exactly would be collapsing. -Sun_Tzu-

its certainly not like the British or Portuguese empires, but surely you agree that our military prowess gives us a great amount of influence abroad, influence which could be likened to an "empire" no?

I can agree with that to an extent. It's one thing to say that the U.S. has a great amount of influence abroad, but I think concluding that the U.S. is therefore a de facto empire might be going a little too far. I don't doubt that the U.S. has had imperial ambitions throughout the 20th century, but in retrospect the U.S. really has failed miserably in the pursuit of said ambitions.

I just want to know: what are the "imperial ambitions" you speak of?

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#86 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="danwallacefan"] its certainly not like the British or Portuguese empires, but surely you agree that our military prowess gives us a great amount of influence abroad, influence which could be likened to an "empire" no?

jetpower3

I can agree with that to an extent. It's one thing to say that the U.S. has a great amount of influence abroad, but I think concluding that the U.S. is therefore a de facto empire might be going a little too far. I don't doubt that the U.S. has had imperial ambitions throughout the 20th century, but in retrospect the U.S. really has failed miserably in the pursuit of said ambitions.

I just want to know: what are the "imperial ambitions" you speak of?

What I mean by "imperial ambitions" is just the desire for a de facto American empire. Things like the '53 Iranian coup, U.S. intervention in Central America in the 70's and 80's, and the backing of Saddam Hussein are all manifestations of these ambitions
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gamedude2020

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#87 gamedude2020
Member since 2004 • 3795 Posts

Anyone who says the US is not an empire is either blindly patriotic or knows nothing about history and politics.

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leviathan91

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#88 leviathan91
Member since 2007 • 7763 Posts

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

Before you flame me and ignore the the link,Johan Galtungsays the collapse of theUS empire will actually be good for Americans! He argues that the US will become more efficient, just like the Fench, British and Russia when their empires collapsed.

Better services, health care, improved schools etc !!

TBoogy

If the supposed US empire falls and becomes like France, Britain, and Russia then the US is screwed. The US can't afford to provide welfare, public healthcare, and government programs for every citizen, otherwise it will always be debt and the people will be reduced to living off the government. Worse, the demography would decrease because of reliance on government programs. Another problem is immigration. If immigrants just come to live off the government, taxes would increase and that's where the problem of demography will come in: There won't be enough people in the end. There's also the problem if the immigrants would integrate into society (which Europe is already suffering from due to most Muslim immigrants not integrating into society). In fact, a lot of problems I just listed are already European problems. As for education, yes the US's education sucks compared to European's but only because of the idiotic department of education, teacher tenure and unions, and lack of school choice and competition. Oveall, if the US will end up like Europe after their "empire" collapses, then I'm not going to look forward to it.

As for the US empire itself, the US does have a "cultural" empire but as an empire, I don't think it really exists. We have bases around the world granted, not to mention a strong but smallmilitary force that wouldn't be capable of taking over countries. But if the US does pull its troops from around the world, then the US would have little to worry about for some time. That is, until rogue nations begin to take advantage of the situation and attack. But that's me guessing. Europe, Japan, and South Korea have their own military forces but aren't really comparable to ours, nor as well-managed, plus I personally think Europe has already been conquered by multiculturism and political correctness.

Three right wing "boogeyman" words in one post...

"welfare", and how it would make everyone want to live off the governement,

"Immigrants", and how they are gonna ruin the country,

and the new one everyone likes to use, "political corrrectness", which I really don't get. All that is is a nice way to say "Don't do anything that will make me knock you the hell out". Why is that so bad? may save your life one day.

And anyone who thinks multiculturalism is a bad thing I just will never understand. The different "flavors" of Chicago are the best thing about the place.

Welfare only increases poverty (Johnson's War on Poverty is a good example of this) and destroys the incentive to work. Also, there are some people who are just lazy who can easily get a job in today's market but refuse to. So why give them a government handout?

As for immigrants, I never said they would ruin the country. It's when the immigrants are illegal and refuse to integrate into society. There's nothing wrong with immigration as long as it's legal and they actually serve their part in society without living on government programs. In fact, my parents are immigrants themselves. They worked while raising me and my family and we're living the good life because hard work creates more luck. That's true for many legal immigrant families in America.

Political correctness stifles free speech and tends to favor one group over another.As for multiculturalism, it's a bad thing when combined with political correctness. Europe (more specifically England, Germany, and France) are all perfect examples. They're facing cultural suicide when the policies they've implemented: Reliance on government programs reduces demography and most immigrants live off the government while refusing to integrate into society because the European government is afraid of being offensive to their culture.

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theafiguy

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#89 theafiguy
Member since 2006 • 962 Posts

Anyone who says the US is not an empire is either blindly patriotic or knows nothing about history and politics.

gamedude2020

Or they just don't agree and you're just looking at it from your 4th story window and no one else's. Just saying.

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daqua_99

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#90 daqua_99
Member since 2005 • 11170 Posts

[QUOTE="gamedude2020"]

Anyone who says the US is not an empire is either blindly patriotic or knows nothing about history and politics.

theafiguy

Or they just don't agree and you're just looking at it from your 4th story window and no one else's. Just saying.

The United States is as much an empire as the British and Romans were of the past. Paraphrasing my Cold War lecturer, plus textbooks, it is widely known from non-Americans that the US is in deed an empire, and that only Americans think otherwise. Americans think that they are a dawn of a new era, but in fact they are just as bad as all previous empires.

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gamedude2020

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#91 gamedude2020
Member since 2004 • 3795 Posts

[QUOTE="gamedude2020"]

Anyone who says the US is not an empire is either blindly patriotic or knows nothing about history and politics.

theafiguy

Or they just don't agree and you're just looking at it from your 4th story window and no one else's. Just saying.

The United States is incredibly similar to the British Empire. The British did not have a territorial empire - the territory was just a facade. They had a commercial, economic empire - an empire of political influence. Exactly what the americans have.

TheUS is an empire in every sense of the word,but they are a modern empire, just like theBritish were.

just because its unfasionalble to call yourself an "empire" doesn't mean you are not one.

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HomicidalCherry

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#92 HomicidalCherry
Member since 2009 • 959 Posts

[QUOTE="jetpower3"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

I'm surprised that this issue is so evenly divided. I figured that the GS community would overwhelmingly support a non-interventionist policy.

anyway, yes I agree that the American empire will by 2020, and I agree that it will by and large be very good for Americans. Rather than going to failed nation-building project, that money will be spent here in America either on social services or by consumers b/c of tax cuts.

danwallacefan

It seems that there's always someone who is going to intervene on the world stage. If it's not the U.S., it can easily be someone else. Power vaccums will always be filled.

I dont think that's true. The power of States seems to have waned significantly since the end of W.W.II. As free trade becomes more popular, protectionism , and foreign intervention with it, will become much less popular.

Free trade is never popular among developing nations and it never will be. China has a penchant for economic and political intervention and will likely fill any vaccum left by the U.S., that is provided the Chinese government remains stable.