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Garden of Eden

beatifuleyes · 2009-05-09 12:36:59

Hello everyone it's my first day here and I'm excited to be here. I already understand your passion for philosophy and although I'm not a expert, I do love talking about whether God exists or not. I won't be arguing the existence of God because i don't think i could beat some of you guys you're just too tough haha. I would like to explain the Garden of Eden through my own eyes and it goes something like this. My basic thesis is a story about genesis. Not the creation story but the transcendence story that immediately follows after the creation story, in which the serpent, who is the genuine human being, leads humanity from the garden into the truth. X was a disobedient fellow. He was frequently late for work. He didn't do as he was told. Lets imagine for a second X had done what was expected of him. Not much of a story. There's X, working as he should in his office. The End. As luck would have it, X is motivated to disobey and we have a story after all. But its not just having a story. Not hardly. It is really about choice X realizes. When you get down to it, there are only two fundamental choices: you can choose to be Christ or you can choose to be human; asleep or awake; dead or alive. Someone will always be telling you what to do. The Christ, tin-chested and lifeless, does what he is told. The robot (Christ) obeys. The human being disobeys. The human being eats the apple. God gave the serpent the same two choices. The serpent chose not to be part of Eden. After that he was free. So God created man in his own image...And there was evening, and there was morning -- the sixth day. --Genesis 1:27;31 This God has some particular characteristics. He created earth in 6 days, then took a break, and often takes evening walks in the Garden of Eden. And, well, that is about it for God. Oh, except for one more thing. He put up a couple of special trees and told the humans not to eat their fruit. They were the forbidden fruits of the Trees of Knowledge and of Life. This is the Creator God, the Father God. Brahma is a good parallel for those of you into eastern philosophy. Brahma creates the world but does not rule it. Brahma essentially just sits on his lotus flower. He is like the cosmic Clock-maker of the Deists ( I know there's a couple of you Deists out there!) who winds up the springs and then only watches things happen. But in addition to this Brahma-like quality, the Genesis God and the Architect both have this forbiddance against knowledge. And, of course, there is the serpent. Now back to the topic of the serpent. It's often overlooked that the serpent was created by God and put into the Garden. I mean, who else would have created him? It is a mistake to read Genesis with the assumption that the serpent is evil. He's not any more evil than dish soap is evil for breaking up the grease on your plate. X leaves everything behind, his whole life thrown aside, to follow the role of the serpent 'tempting' people of the forbidden fruit so that they may exit the Garden into the real world of suffering and the passage of time. God with the assistance of Christ, designed into the Garden a way to exit its borders. I feel that this is really profound. What possible reason was there to put an exit door on the Garden of Eden unless God wants you to disobey. If you don't, if you always do what you're told, you are only a machine (Christ). X now fully takes on the role of the serpent. God's Godliness is already established because he created the world. X ,who has fully taken on the serpent role is convinced the problem is choice. The serpent in the Garden isn't a force of evil. It is a force of change, of opening the exit-door from the Garden that God Himself put there. The serpent is a catalyst, inviting us to think rationally about our surroundings. 'Following the serpent' we exit the timeless Garden and descend into the field of time. It is only by leaving the Garden that we can awaken to genuine humanity. This arrives at my main thesis. We are cast out of the 'perfection' of Heaven and living in the Real World. The Real World is hard, dirty, and uncomfortable. The Garden of Eden is perfection. The Biblical reference is clear enough. X has rejected God's Garden of Eden where all their needs are taken care of in favor of a hard, scrabbling existence where at least they have free will. I'm very sorry if this was a waste of a post for anyone. This was a beautiful way for me to look at the transcendence story in genesis. This is the way i see it as.

beatifuleyes

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#51 beatifuleyes

Member since 2009 • 69 Posts

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="soulfood4"]That my friend is a wall of text and i do not have the patience to read it. shoot-first

Nah it's paragraphed appropriately, hardly a wall. That being said I haven't read it either.

So are bricks but, they're still part of the wall. o_o

Haha Hello...If you're reading it and you like it, time goes a lot faster!

15 years ago

beatifuleyes

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#52 beatifuleyes

Member since 2009 • 69 Posts

How does God have human emotions and feeling jealous or upset, while in heave. (In the Triune God, I am referring to God the Father)Spicy-McHaggis

I think God is a person, that he knows and loves us, that he responds to our prayers, is pleased or displeased with us, and that he invites us to enter a personal relationship with him.

15 years ago

FastNorwegian

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#53 FastNorwegian

Member since 2009 • 859 Posts

[QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"]How does God have human emotions and feeling jealous or upset, while in heave. (In the Triune God, I am referring to God the Father)beatifuleyes

I think God is a person, that he knows and loves us, that he responds to our prayers, is pleased or displeased with us, and that he invites us to enter a personal relationship with him.

You are a brilliant poster, bravo TC

15 years ago

beatifuleyes

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#54 beatifuleyes

Member since 2009 • 69 Posts

[QUOTE="beatifuleyes"][QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"]How does God have human emotions and feeling jealous or upset, while in heave. (In the Triune God, I am referring to God the Father)FastNorwegian

I think God is a person, that he knows and loves us, that he responds to our prayers, is pleased or displeased with us, and that he invites us to enter a personal relationship with him.

You are a brilliant poster, bravo TC

Thanks, but are you really satisfied with this particular answer or in general I am brilliant or are you being sarcastic haha.

15 years ago

BumFluff122

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#55 BumFluff122

Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

As people get rather upset about the number of religious threads in the Off Topic forum mught I suggest joining a union to debate religion instead? People in the Off Topic forum would much rather discuss "There is this girl I think I like..." threads.

15 years ago

beatifuleyes

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#56 beatifuleyes

Member since 2009 • 69 Posts

As people get rather upset about the number of religious threads in the Off Topic forum mught I suggest joining a union to debate religion instead? People in the Off Topic forum would much rather discuss "There is this girl I think I like..." threads.
BumFluff122

Hello, i agree. It just seems no one is interested i thought people would love it. Thanks I'll try the Unions.

15 years ago

BumFluff122

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#57 BumFluff122

Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]
As people get rather upset about the number of religious threads in the Off Topic forum mught I suggest joining a union to debate religion instead? People in the Off Topic forum would much rather discuss "There is this girl I think I like..." threads.
beatifuleyes

Hello, i agree. It just seems no one is interested i thought people would love it. Thanks I'll try the Unions.

Exactly what types of discussions are you hoping to get into concerning religion? I'm a member of a couple religion based unions myself. Most of the religions based unions basically have the same members that discuss the topics when they are posted in OT.

15 years ago

beatifuleyes

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#58 beatifuleyes

Member since 2009 • 69 Posts

Thanks for your time everyone. It was a lot of fun. I'll still wait for your response Domatron if you would like to continue. Take it easy, Bye!

15 years ago

beatifuleyes

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#59 beatifuleyes

Member since 2009 • 69 Posts

[QUOTE="beatifuleyes"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]
As people get rather upset about the number of religious threads in the Off Topic forum mught I suggest joining a union to debate religion instead? People in the Off Topic forum would much rather discuss "There is this girl I think I like..." threads.
BumFluff122

Hello, i agree. It just seems no one is interested i thought people would love it. Thanks I'll try the Unions.

Exactly what types of discussions are you hoping to get into concerning religion? I'm a member of a couple religion based unions myself. Most of the religions based unions basically have the same members that discuss the topics when they are posted in OT.

I don't mind any at all. I'm far more keen to eastern philosophy and particularly the region of the Indian subcontinent.

15 years ago

beatifuleyes

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#60 beatifuleyes

Member since 2009 • 69 Posts

[QUOTE="beatifuleyes"]I would like to add just a little bit more to what I've said in my earlier post. I am a bit of a compatibilist , I do believe we have free will, to be a free agent, to be free in choice and action, is simply to be free from constraints of certain sorts. Freedom is a matter of not being physically or psychologically forced or compelled to do what one does. Your character, personality, preferences, and general motivational set may be entirely determined by events for which you are in no way responsible (by your genetic inheritance, upbringing, subsequent experience, and so on). But you do not have to be in control of any of these things in order to have compatibilist freedom. They do not constrain or compel you, because compatibilist freedom is just a matter of being able to choose and act in the way one prefers or thinks best given how one is. As its name declares, it is compatible with determinism. It is compatible with determinism even though it follows from determinism that every aspect of your character, and everything you will ever do, was already inevitable before you were born. Theokhoth

Interestingly, I'm also a compatibilist.

Great! It looks like we have a lot in common! Great talking to you Theokhoth. Take Care.

15 years ago

Garden of Eden

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