Getting the bible slamed down my throat....

i never got anything slamed down my throat.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

An important point is that in most of these studies, prayer is treated as sort of a generic interfaith process, as if just the fact someone, regardless of their faith, is "praying". God's Word reveals many things about prayer, who He hears and how He answers that I am not certain are being carefully considered in those studies. His Word clearly reveals, that according to Him, it does matter who is doing the praying, the faith amd sincerity they have in trusting that God will answer their prayers, and the nature of the relationship that person doing the praying has with Him in Christ. Since no one can know the heart of a person, except the Lord, I think that this is something that presents a major obstacle in studies evaluating the effectiveness of prayer. I question whether "scientists" conducting these studies have the ability to know the true state of the spiritual relationship that participants have with the Lord and thus accurately assign them to groups in accordance with what God has told us regarding His response to prayer.

blackregiment

No offense, but... did you even read the study to which you provided a link?

The very study that you yourself have just cited as evidence in favor of the efficacy of prayer, and which you now seem to be inexplicably distancing yourself from as quickly as you presented it, defined the criteria for those whom it would enlist to pray for those in the hospital as follows:

"'Born again' Christians (according to the Gospel of John 3:3) with an active Christian life as manifested by daily devotional prayer and active Christian fellowship with a local church."

It was not "treated as sort of a generic interfaith process". It was specifically seeking out born-again Christians, using the criteria in the Bible, who would pray to YHWH. Furthermore, this study was rejected by two academic journals, but was published in the Southern Medical Journal, based in the Southern Baptist Deep South, which declared that his study provides evidence - just as you did - that prayer to the YHWH works.

So no, you don't get to present a study in favor of the idea that prayer works, then turn around once it has been shown to be faulty and declare that all such studies are tainted by scientists' clumsy treatment of prayer. That is called attempting to eat one's cake and have it too. This was a study done by a Godly man, involving Godly born-again Christians, published in a journal based in a Godly part of America. Both its author and its publisher believed that it indicated that prayer to YHWH was in fact effectual; its conclusions were in favor of the efficacy of prayer, just as you are. The only way you can proceed to make the claim you are trying to make is to declare that each and every one of these people, despite being sought out specifically as born-again Christians, were in fact not real Christians. So... are you indeed making this declaration?

I simply posted a link to studies that showed an opposite conclusion to your posting of a study claiming that prayer is ineffective. That's all. My only purpose was to show that others have come to different conclusions. I made no claim to the accuracy of the methods or the results of the studies. My sole purpose was to show that there are studies that have concluded that prayer is effective, contrary to the study you posted.

You then attempted to dissect the studies to somehow "invalidate" them. I wasn't there, I didn't participate and I make no claim as to their validity. I also do not accept your assertions that "they are faulty".

I simply expressed that, based on personal experience and the testimonies of others, I believe prayer works. I also expressed that you are entitled to your own beliefs and opinion. Guess what though, so am I.

I also presented Scripture to show what God says about prayer and His revelation, not mine, regarding His response to prayer. That's all. I did notice that you had little to say about that Scripture.

As far as the hearts and relationship of those that participated in the studies, I made note that no one can know the heart of another person regarding their true relationship with the Lord. In reality and according the Word of God, the fact that someone prays, attends a Church, claims to be a Christian, etc. does not mean that in God's eyes they are His adopted children and that He hears their prayers. I also noted that there is no way those conducting those studies can know that either. While I respect your right to disgree or hold other beliefs, I personally take what God has revealed in His Word as truth and He is quite specific in His revelations about whose prayers He hears and answers. Naturally, that is His call, not mine.

To answer your final question, no, I am not making any claims about the hearts and relationships with the Lord of those in the study. Are you? Do you claim to know the true states of their hearts? As I have said over and over, no one can know the hearts of a person except the Lord. That being said, I find it interesting that you seem to accept the assertions regarding the faith of those in the study yet seem to quickly discount the personal testimony regarding the experiences of believers regarding answered prayer.

We will just have to agree to disagree on the effectiveness of prayer, each entitled to and holding their own beliefs on the effectiveness of prayer. I doubt we will agree on this matter based on our differences in beliefs, as evidenced in past discussions, regarding the inspiration and preservation of God's Word and revelations in God's Word concerning, the person and Deity of Jesus Christ, the nature and path to salvation, the nature and duration of the eternal consequences of one's decision regarding Christ, as well as numerous other historical Christian doctrines. I fell and think you will agree that our worldviews are very different. I respect your right to hold whatever beliefs you chose and my right to do the same.

Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

I also have a testimony that prayer has worked in my life as well. Of course there are always going to be others who try and make attempts to prove that notion wrong. I'm good with that. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions. I believe in prayer though. :)

Point out the continuity errors.