God: Existence Outside of Time?

Time does not exist it is only an illusion. According to Einsteins theory the faster you travel the slower time passes for you. It is not time that slows down it is matter and energy that slows down but from our point of view it appears as if time is slowing down.HeyDoYaThang

That means time is relative. Alsoo, it is supposed that we live in chronos time, the way of how we keep time, while God is in a separate sort of time, as he is not of the universe (seeing as he made it), I do not remember the specific name of the other time form though.

TC, here's a proper translation of your sig, "The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the Hill Country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots".

Time does not exist it is only an illusion. According to Einsteins theory the faster you travel the slower time passes for you. It is not time that slows down it is matter and energy that slows down but from our point of view it appears as if time is slowing down.HeyDoYaThang

why should a creator, become limited to its own creation?middito

[QUOTE="middito"]why should a creator, become limited to its own creation?Mr_sprinkles

I wish people would stop making threads about God just to get a lot of posts. Don't talk about God on a video game website, even if this is off topic. Stop making threads about God!!! Therefore God and time the end.tenczas9

If people want to talk about god - let them. Its not effecting you in any way, just don't click the topic. It gets annoying when there is 5 popular god topics going at once, but when there isn't, I don't see how it causes any harm.

Either the universe had a beginning or it has always existed. One of the two choices must be true. What if there was a third possibility and neither of those two choices were true?

For the universe to have a beginning there would have had to have been a time when there was absolutely nothing. If there is absolute nothingness you can not chose a Point A or B for the universe to suddenly pop into existance. The empty vacuum of space is not the same as a time of absolute nothingness.

So if the universe can not have a beginning then it must have existed forever. The problem with that is you can theoretically go forwards and backwards in time forever. You also have to ask what came first because all matter and energy come from previous forms of matter and energy. In a universe that has always existed something must have been first.

What if time doesn't exist? If time does not exist you can no longer ask what came first in a universe that has existed forever. You can not go forwards or backwards in time. You can no longer say the universe has existed forever because that implies the passage of time. The only thing you can say about the universe is that it exists.

Time is just a concept created by man that allows us to make sense of the changes that occur around us. You could ask why do we age if time does not exist? You age because of cell division. When cell division stops or is no longer sufficient you die of old age. Change the markers in your genes and you can double or triple our lifespan just as that which has been done in fruit flies etc. Your cells in your body do not check in with some mysterious 4th dimension to see when it is your time to check out.

The reason we do not have perfectly accurate clocks is because they do not measure time. They do not measure anything. All they do is perform a function. If you were to drop a ball it would obey all known laws but it would never check in with the 4th dimension to see how fast or at what speed it should fall.

Einstein said the faster you travel the slower time passes for you but Einstein also said that time is just an illusion. I don't think it is time that slows down the faster you travel but rather matter and energy. If you slow down matter and energy from our point of view it would appear as if time were slowing down.

That is why I think there is a third possibility when it comes to our universe. It simply exists and time does not. If time doesn't exist you no longer have to worry about annoying paradoxes or asking things such as what came first. Maybe nothing came first.

Take a ball and hold it in your hand. Then drop it. Did you see the ball hit the floor before it hit the floor? Most likely not. If you did I want whatever you are on. You didn't see the ball hit the floor before it hit the floor because that hadn't happened yet. That is pretty much the same reason why you didn't see the ball in your hands after you dropped the ball. You couldn't see the ball in your hands after you dropped the ball otherwise you would have been seing something that happened in the past.

You could say that is a very simple time experiment that seems to show there is a past, present and future. We have proven we can not seen into the past or into the future. We can only see what is in the present.

If time does exist the faster you travel the slower time should pass for you according to the general theory of relativity. As far as I remember they did a test with two atomic clocks. One was on the ground and another was in a jet. The clock that was left on the ground had a time slightly ahead of the clock that was on the jet. The reason being that because the clock on the jet was moving at a faster speed then the one on the ground time would pass slower for it.

This experiment has also been done by amateurs using gravity. They used several HP 5071 cesium clocks. They left one at home and took three with them. When they got back the time on the clock at home was 22 nanonseconds faster then the ones they had taken with them. The reason being was that they were at a higher altitude and in less gravity therefore time passed slower for them then it did for the clock at home. A very small but measurable amount. So did time really pass slower for them?

What if you were to put your car up on blocks so that its wheels were off the ground. Start the car, put it drive and let the rear wheel spin around and around. The outer edge of the tire is moving faster then the inner area of the tire because it is covering more distance in the same amount of time.

If you were to draw a line with a piece of chalk from the tread of the tire to the center of the tire then mark each end of the line with the letters A and B with A being at the outer edge of the tire a B the center of the tire then A would travel a greater distance then B in the same amount of time.

So time where the letter A is on the tire is passing slower then where the letter B is on the tire. Theoretically would the letter A be existing in a different time period then the letter B? Should the letter A on the tire vanish from sight because if time is passing slower for it then it exists in a different time period.

We can not see the past or the future and can only see the present. So why can we see an object that is moving at a greater speed then say what we are, and if time is indeed passing slower for it then it must exist in a slightly different time period. Yet we are still able to see it. Why is that?

What if this experiment was done in outer space but with a much larger object. What if we used a steel rod or pipe. Now lets say this was an average pipe as far as diameter goes but it was thousands of miles long. What if we spun that pipe around from its center with whatever device and suppose we could do so at incredible speeds. Fast enough so that the outer edges of the pipe travelled full circle and covered a distance of about 330,000 km per second.

The outer edges of the pipe would then be travelling at about the speed of light. Would time stop for the outher edges of the pipe? Would part of the pipe vanish from sight because it exists in a different time period or would we be able to see it but would be seeing it in a different time period? Because if you remember we have proven we can't see the past or future already by dropping the ball. Yet we also seem to have an example that seems to show that we can see into the past and future.

That makes me wonder if time is slowing down or maybe it is matter and energy that is slowing down which from our point of view makes it seem as if time is slowing down.HeyDoYaThang

I wish people would stop making threads about God just to get a lot of posts. Don't talk about God on a video game website, even if this is off topic. Stop making threads about God!!! Therefore God and time the end.tenczas9

Even though I'm an Atheist...

Imagine one day you were bored. So, being bored, you walk over to your closet and pop out some clay, and start building random things. Eventually, you make a huge clay world with different clay people and clay buildings. Now, to the clay people, time just started to exist a few moments ago, but you still existed before that time, because you are the one that started it.

Even though I'm an Atheist...

Imagine one day you were bored. So, being bored, you walk over to your closet and pop out some clay, and start building random things. Eventually, you make a huge clay world with different clay people and clay buildings. Now, to the clay people, time just started to exist a few moments ago, but you still existed before that time, because you are the one that started it.

criinok

Even though I'm an Atheist...

Imagine one day you were bored. So, being bored, you walk over to your closet and pop out some clay, and start building random things. Eventually, you make a huge clay world with different clay people and clay buildings. Now, to the clay people, time just started to exist a few moments ago, but you still existed before that time, because you are the one that started it.

criinok

god is nowhere because god created everywhere.raider1648

Even though I'm an Atheist...

Imagine one day you were bored. So, being bored, you walk over to your closet and pop out some clay, and start building random things. Eventually, you make a huge clay world with different clay people and clay buildings. Now, to the clay people, time just started to exist a few moments ago, but you still existed before that time, because you are the one that started it.

criinok

[QUOTE="criinok"]

Even though I'm an Atheist...

Imagine one day you were bored. So, being bored, you walk over to your closet and pop out some clay, and start building random things. Eventually, you make a huge clay world with different clay people and clay buildings. Now, to the clay people, time just started to exist a few moments ago, but you still existed before that time, because you are the one that started it.

C_Town_Soul

Was that for or against my statement? =P

Well, there goes my first and only attempt at trying to be smart. Haha >_<

[QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.C_Town_Soul

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.FusionApex

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

[QUOTE="HeyDoYaThang"]Either the universe ............show that we can see into the past and future.

That makes me wonder if time is slowing down or maybe it is matter and energy that is slowing down which from our point of view makes it seem as if time is slowing down.xaos

seems to me your looking at this from two different angles. your perceiving time as a core mechanical function of our universe, for him it's more of a non-physcial medium that surrounds us. something that can be distorted, and twisted by natural forces (air, water etc.).

[QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.xxDustmanxx

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

I don't. It is the best possible guess, and also what several pastors believe. Why would God want to live where what he hates most (sin) resides.

[QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.xxDustmanxx

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

Because he learned it at a Catholic school, of course!

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.FusionApex

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

I don't. It is the best possible guess, and also what several pastors believe. Why would God want to live where what he hates most (sin) resides.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.criinok

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

Because he learned it at a Catholic school, of course!

Good guess, except i'm no Catholic,and certainly never attended any of their schools. You can try again though.

[QUOTE="criinok"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.FusionApex

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

Because he learned it at a Catholic school, of course!

Good guess, except i'm no Catholic,and certainly never attended any of their schools. You can try again though.

Curses!

See now based on your religious beliefs, you're making assumptions as stated facts.

No I didn't. No one ever thinks anything here is fact without teh lInKz, why would you. I gave what I believe is a fact, you may choose whether to accept it or not.

How on Earth can you argue that time does not exist? How can cells divide if there are not distinct points in time for there to be a difference between them? I never have gotten a cogent explanation from anyone who claimed that "time does not exist" as to what they mean. Despite this wall of text, I still haven't gotten one. By the way, the pipe/pole/whatever example does not work, because there are no truly rigid bodies; the movement is communicated by van der Waals intermolecular forces that move at a finite speed, so lightspeed is still preserved.xaos

Well you could say the same thing about dropping a ball. How can a ball be in one place at one moment and in another the next? If I drop a ball and it takes time for it to hit the floor then that is proof that time exists? The ball is obeying gravity, the strong and weak nuclear forces and electro magnetism. Prove to me that is obeying time in any way. Is there an equation that proves that times does in fact exist? As far as I know we have no such evidence.

[QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.xxDustmanxx

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

Just curious, how would you be able comprehend it if he told you. no one here in this board is in any position to make a brick and mortar claim. neither I or you, nor does anyone have the evidence to refute what he just said. although his statement may revolve around logic, its only natural to speculate that their was an outside source to the creation of the big bang.

ever seen this pic before?

Aside from the Atheism part of this pic, the main point is that it makes no logical sense to get something from nothing.

If our universe exists with it's own set of (what we believe) core physical mechanics (rules of the such), why not another universe with its own set of rules? (my speculative example) Scientists and Astronomers may share the belief that with the existence of Black holes, their may be the possibility of the existence of White holes.

[QUOTE="xaos"]

How on Earth can you argue that time does not exist? How can cells divide if there are not distinct points in time for there to be a difference between them? I never have gotten a cogent explanation from anyone who claimed that "time does not exist" as to what they mean. Despite this wall of text, I still haven't gotten one. By the way, the pipe/pole/whatever example does not work, because there are no truly rigid bodies; the movement is communicated by van der Waals intermolecular forces that move at a finite speed, so lightspeed is still preserved.HeyDoYaThang

Well you could say the same thing about dropping a ball. How can a ball be in one place at one moment and in another the next? If I drop a ball and it takes time for it to hit the floor then that is proof that time exists? The ball is obeying gravity, the strong and weak nuclear forces and electro magnetism. Prove to me that is obeying time in any way. Is there an equation that proves that times does in fact exist? As far as I know we have no such evidence.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.middito

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

Just curious, how would you be able comprehend it if he told you. no one here in this board is in any position to make a brick and mortar claim. neither I or you, nor does anyone have the evidence to refute what he just said. although his statement may revolve around logic, its only natural to speculate that their was an outside source to the creation of the big bang.

ever seen this pic before?

Aside from the Atheism part of this pic, the main point is that it makes no logical sense to get something from nothing.

If our universe exists with it's own set of (what we believe) core physical mechanics (rules of the such), why not another universe with its own set of rules? (my speculative example) Scientists and Astronomers may share the belief that with the existence of Black holes, their may be the possibility of the existence of White holes.

Prove to me that is obeying time in any way. Is there an equation that proves that times does in fact exist? As far as I know we have no such evidence.

HeyDoYaThang

distance = rate * time.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.middito

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

Just curious, how would you be able comprehend it if he told you. no one here in this board is in any position to make a brick and mortar claim. neither I or you, nor does anyone have the evidence to refute what he just said. although his statement may revolve around logic, its only natural to speculate that their was an outside source to the creation of the big bang.

ever seen this pic before?

Aside from the Atheism part of this pic, the main point is that it makes no logical sense to get something from nothing.

If our universe exists with it's own set of (what we believe) core physical mechanics (rules of the such), why not another universe with its own set of rules? (my speculative example) Scientists and Astronomers may share the belief that with the existence of Black holes, their may be the possibility of the existence of White holes.

Correction: We believe science happened. Not nothing.

[QUOTE="middito"][QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"][QUOTE="FusionApex"]

[QUOTE="C_Town_Soul"][QUOTE="raider1648"]god is nowhere because god created everywhere.criinok

God's presence is in the universe, but he doesn't reside here. He is outside our plane of existence.

Just curious, how do you know this?

Just curious, how would you be able comprehend it if he told you. no one here in this board is in any position to make a brick and mortar claim. neither I or you, nor does anyone have the evidence to refute what he just said. although his statement may revolve around logic, its only natural to speculate that their was an outside source to the creation of the big bang.

ever seen this pic before?

Aside from the Atheism part of this pic, the main point is that it makes no logical sense to get something from nothing.

If our universe exists with it's own set of (what we believe) core physical mechanics (rules of the such), why not another universe with its own set of rules? (my speculative example) Scientists and Astronomers may share the belief that with the existence of Black holes, their may be the possibility of the existence of White holes.

Correction: We believe science happened. Not nothing.

if you read correctly i wasn't commenting on Atheism or religous beliefs. I was backing the idea that the source of creation within our universe did not originate within itself. both of which the big bang or unknown outer source was not directly observed.

Science

It does not obey time; time is not a force, it's a dimension, one of the 4 axes of the spacetime continuum. It's a direction, and forward is indicated by increasing entropy. The ball you mention has a spacetime trajectory determined by a sequence of 4D coordinates, 3 spatial coordinates indicate its position in space and 1 time coordinate indicates the point in time at which it is at those coordinates. I still don't understand what you are trying to convey.xaos

Well I am not a physicist or theorist or any ist which is why I am having a little problem understanding some of what you say. Have you ever seen the Big Lebowski? I am the dude man. I have no PHD's etc which I am pretty sure is obvious. Ok I read what you said over again and I think I undersand what you are saying.

So what you are saying is if we had a 3 dimensional cube time is in some ways nothing more than just a coordinate in that cube showing where a peticle, or a ball for example, existed at one moment? I am running this back and forth through my head. What if an object were not to move at all through space? How would you plot time for it? I am not sure if that make sense?

[QUOTE="xaos"]

It does not obey time; time is not a force, it's a dimension, one of the 4 axes of the spacetime continuum. It's a direction, and forward is indicated by increasing entropy. The ball you mention has a spacetime trajectory determined by a sequence of 4D coordinates, 3 spatial coordinates indicate its position in space and 1 time coordinate indicates the point in time at which it is at those coordinates. I still don't understand what you are trying to convey.HeyDoYaThang

Well I am not a physicist or theorist or any ist which is why I am having a little problem understanding some of what you say. Have you ever seen the Big Lebowski? I am the dude man. I have no PHD's etc which I am pretty sure is obvious. Ok I read what you said over again and I think I undersand what you are saying.

So what you are saying is if we had a 3 dimensional cube time is in some ways nothing more than just a coordinate in that cube showing where a peticle, or a ball for example, existed at one moment? I am running this back and forth through my head. What if an object were not to move at all through space? How would you plot time for it? I am not sure if that make sense?

basically the dimension of time is seperate to god, god is outside all of our dimensions that's why he just exists and can manipulate them at will

Time does not exist it is only an illusion. According to Einsteins theory the faster you travel the slower time passes for you. It is not time that slows down it is matter and energy that slows down but from our point of view it appears as if time is slowing down.HeyDoYaThang

but this guys got the truth IMO

[QUOTE="HeyDoYaThang"][QUOTE="xaos"]

It does not obey time; time is not a force, it's a dimension, one of the 4 axes of the spacetime continuum. It's a direction, and forward is indicated by increasing entropy. The ball you mention has a spacetime trajectory determined by a sequence of 4D coordinates, 3 spatial coordinates indicate its position in space and 1 time coordinate indicates the point in time at which it is at those coordinates. I still don't understand what you are trying to convey.xaos

Well I am not a physicist or theorist or any ist which is why I am having a little problem understanding some of what you say. Have you ever seen the Big Lebowski? I am the dude man. I have no PHD's etc which I am pretty sure is obvious. Ok I read what you said over again and I think I undersand what you are saying.

So what you are saying is if we had a 3 dimensional cube time is in some ways nothing more than just a coordinate in that cube showing where a peticle, or a ball for example, existed at one moment? I am running this back and forth through my head. What if an object were not to move at all through space? How would you plot time for it? I am not sure if that make sense?

can't we get back on topic, make a seperate thread if you want