God vs. his Devil

HOW can a god allow a competitor? A contradiction yes?

Free will.its_me_

The anatomy of my brain dictated that I make the decision to type this response. Nyah. :P

[QUOTE="its_me_"]Free will.SpaceMoose

The anatomy of my brain dictated that I make the decision to type this response. Nyah. :P

...and also, I hope you meant to say "incomprehensible."

I think the very idea of omnipotence and omniscience is silly.Rhazakna

I think the very idea of God is silly.

From the title, I thought it was God vs. his devil...

I'd say his devil would win....

Why?

God can't do bad things. His devil can do all....Besides, its fun to do bad things...:twisted:

On the subject of God and evil, I've always been of the mind that the existence of evil is - ironically enough - the lesser of two evils. The whole reason why humans are able to appreciate the good in life is because the bad exists. People derive real happiness from overcoming adversity, discovering the unknown, fixing what breaks, and so on, and so forth. Living in a world without evil would be like receiving a puzzle book with all of the problems already solved for you. That world I find much, much scarier than the one we currently live in.

Of course, one could ask any number of questions in response to the above, such as "What about people who fail to overcome the adversity?" or "Couldn't God have created us able to enjoy good without the existence of evil?". And these questions I can't really answer adequately. But I do think that the whole "evil disproves God" argument is not as cut-and-dry as many believe.

I do think that the whole "evil disproves God" argument is not as cut-and-dry as many believe.
GabuEx

Well said. I dont think that the paradox disproves a god. It only disproves the common conception of "god". I dont discount the reality that we cannot prove the cosmos either way, its just that logical notions point toward a lack of a good creator.

On the subject of God and evil, I've always been of the mind that the existence of evil is - ironically enough - the lesser of two evils. The whole reason why humans are able to appreciate the good in life is because the bad exists. People derive real happiness from overcoming adversity, discovering the unknown, fixing what breaks, and so on, and so forth. Living in a world without evil would be like receiving a puzzle book with all of the problems already solved for you. That world I find much, much scarier than the one we currently live in.

Of course, one could ask any number of questions in response to the above, such as "What about people who fail to overcome the adversity?" or "Couldn't God have created us able to enjoy good without the existence of evil?". And these questions I can't really answer adequately. But I do think that the whole "evil disproves God" argument is not as cut-and-dry as many believe.

GabuEx

I agree, but I'd say that argument still makes the Old Testament seem not very credible.

[QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]I do think that the whole "evil disproves God" argument is not as cut-and-dry as many believe.
ShadowTheHHFan

Well said. I dont think that the paradox disproves a god. It only disproves the common conception of "god". I dont discount the reality that we cannot prove the cosmos either way, its just that logical notions point toward a lack of a good creator.

Nope. Read my early post and play again.

This isn't a game and nobody was responding to you.

I agree, but I'd say that argument still makes the Old Testament seem not very credible.

ThaSod

Oh, I'm not talking about any specific god, only the general notion of an almighty creator of the universe. I do agree that the god portrayed in the Old Testament is a pretty weird guy if you list all of the stuff he did and then put it beside the idea that he's an all-loving, all-powerful deity.

[QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"][QUOTE="ShadowTheHHFan"][QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]I do think that the whole "evil disproves God" argument is not as cut-and-dry as many believe.
ShadowTheHHFan

Well said. I dont think that the paradox disproves a god. It only disproves the common conception of "god". I dont discount the reality that we cannot prove the cosmos either way, its just that logical notions point toward a lack of a good creator.

Nope. Read my early post and play again.

This isn't a game and nobody was responding to you.

That play again thing was a small joke referring to those stupid lotto stickets that suck.

My early post explains what you're trying to say as " Disproves " God. Or helps to it. In fact, Evil helps prove God since he gave US ( Not up to anyone who saw that) freewill.

• John 15:16: "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you."
• Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."
• Romans 9:15-16: "For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

Some free will we got, eh?

Yet another person who takes things out of context.

What it means by that is humans should not judge a human as a being, by only God can in the AFTERLIFE, we have all the free will down here to do whatever hell we want.

ShadowTheHHFan

Out of context? The Christian philosophy of Calvinism disagrees. They say God picks who goes to heaven .

God can allow a competitor123625

Then you have to redefine the concept of god.

[QUOTE="123625"]God can allow a competitorPrimordialMeme

Then you have to redefine the concept of god.

Many religions are polytheistic. God is not only defined as monotheistic.

[QUOTE="123625"]God can allow a competitorPrimordialMeme

Then you have to redefine the concept of god.

Explain to me why it's a contradiction.

[QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]

[QUOTE="123625"]God can allow a competitor123625

Then you have to redefine the concept of god.

Explain to me why it's a contradiction.

Monotheism. Omnipotence.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]

[QUOTE="123625"]God can allow a competitorPrimordialMeme

Then you have to redefine the concept of god.

Explain to me why it's a contradiction.

Monotheism. Omnipotence.

Care to go a little deeper? I may be a theist but I don't use or know the second term, nor do I think I will look it up.

Please explain to me.

[QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]

[QUOTE="123625"]God can allow a competitor123625

Then you have to redefine the concept of god.

Explain to me why it's a contradiction.

Monotheism. Omnipotence.

Care to go a little deeper? I may be a theist but I don't use or know the second term, nor do I think I will look it up.

Please explain to me.

Well if you don't know basic wording dont argue with me.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="ShadowTheHHFan"]

Yet another person who takes things out of context.

What it means by that is humans should not judge a human as a being, by only God can in the AFTERLIFE, we have all the free will down here to do whatever hell we want.

ShadowTheHHFan

Out of context? The Christian philosophy of Calvinism disagrees. They say God picks who goes to heaven .

It doesn't matter if you're a Calvinist or not. According to them all these quotes are proof that god draws people to him. I don't see how that's any more or less valid than what the Catholics say.

But what would Jesus drive? I'd say a hybrid. A hybrid that runs on love.

Edit: Either that or a unicycle.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]

[QUOTE="123625"]God can allow a competitorPrimordialMeme

Then you have to redefine the concept of god.

Explain to me why it's a contradiction.

Monotheism. Omnipotence.

Care to go a little deeper? I may be a theist but I don't use or know the second term, nor do I think I will look it up.

Please explain to me.

Well if you don't know basic wording dont argue with me.

Very well since you won't explain...

Omnipotence - One having unlimited power or authority

Monotheism - One God and only One God.

I don't see how they contradict.

Hey Rhazakna, who's the picture of in your avatar? Harvey Coen?ThaSod

Murray Rothbard.

Very well since you won't explain...

Omnipotence - One having unlimited power or authority

Monotheism - One God and only One God.

I don't see how they contradict.

123625

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="ShadowTheHHFan"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="ShadowTheHHFan"]

Yet another person who takes things out of context.

What it means by that is humans should not judge a human as a being, by only God can in the AFTERLIFE, we have all the free will down here to do whatever hell we want.

ShadowTheHHFan

Out of context? The Christian philosophy of Calvinism disagrees. They say God picks who goes to heaven .

It doesn't matter if you're a Calvinist or not. According to them all these quotes are proof that god draws people to him. I don't see how that's any more or less valid than what the Catholics say.

It isn't any more less or more valid, But you were trying to point out their belief as if it was mine.

No, merely pointing out biblical contradictions of free will, then talking about the christian school of thought that backs it up. I never said you believed anything.

And if you think his belief is going to do bad things for him in the afterlife, it must be less valid in your point of view.

[QUOTE="123625"]

Very well since you won't explain...

Omnipotence - One having unlimited power or authority

Monotheism - One God and only One God.

I don't see how they contradict.

PrimordialMeme

Is the devil not the source of evil according to your religion? Tell me. I want to learn. If Im wrong on your beliefs then what is the relationship between the devil you think exists and the notion of free will? If the devil is responsible for evil then where is free will or even god? Im very curious to know your viewpoint now.

I would say yes the devil is the source of evil, but it wasn't him that committed the evil act, he just tempted.

Umm no, You were pointing the bibles contradictions of the Calvist belief.

ShadowTheHHFan

Wait a minute, the verses Calvinists use to prove Calvinism... contradicts Calvinism?

Or are you saying I'm just pointing out verses that Calvinists use? Well, that's true. According to them, those verses prove their beliefs correct. You may disagree, but you can't say for certain your interpretation is better than theirs.

I would say yes the devil is the source of evil

123625

So then, since god created the devil...

[QUOTE="123625"]

I would say yes the devil is the source of evil

PrimordialMeme

So then, since god created the devil...

God didn't create the Devil to be Evil. He most likely created the Devil with free will and it chose to reject and go against God. Of course if I'm wrong please correct me, (my beleif is christianity).

Yup. Which is why I'm not calvinist.

ShadowTheHHFan

I think his point was that you said you took those verses out of context, and he was trying to show that an entire sect of Christianity believes them to mean what he said them to mean, thus asserting that it's not clear-cut that he was taking them out of context.

God didn't create the Devil to be Evil. 123625

Then god would not be all knowing and all powerful hence ominpotence and omniscience.