Got into a big fight with a teacher at college. Who was in the right?

Well you can't determine who's right and who's wrong when you're only presented with one side of a situation. Anyway I would have disposed of the trash somewhere else or hung onto it until I could instead of doing so by opening a door to a class that was still in session. Even if I did do that I simply would have apologized and removed the trash instead of arguing the point. I probably would have thought to myself that he was being a jerk but it would be something that I'd feel the need to get into an argument over.

Let me elaborate on this after better consideration.

If you believe letting someone lay their hands on you is acceptable behavior no matter the circumstances, you have a problem, not me. You seem unable to distinguish action from principle. I don't give a **** if someone has a problem with the way a single hair rests on my forehead, once they lay their hands on me for such, it becomes a serious issue that transcends any reason, and I will go at them will full vengeance and hatred in my heart in general principle of defending my person and out of self-respect. This does not seem to be the case with you. You apparently will let people physically abuse you as you sit there, them pulling your hair, as you meanwhile rationalize in your head whether it's "worth it" in the context of your "meaningful life" as you take solace in the knowledge that a CTTV camera will stand in your defense.

Is that what you're saying? Does that work for you? Great. It doesn't for me. If you want to be a doormat throughout your life masquerading under the cowardice of rationalization of degrees and the security of third parties, so be it. But don't come to me and condescend, talking down to me about "this is daily life for most working people". No, it is daily life for people who are walked all over without protest. You think I haven't experienced such? I have been there, and I've been past there. You want to compare sob stories about daily life? Mental Anguish? Is that really what you want to do? You know nothing about my life situation aside from ignorant presumption.

Give me a reason. Please.

So, just what did you hope to accomplish here? You're talkiing as if your actions were just, and that you were standing up to harrassment, but what exactly were you hoping to ACCOMPLISH here?

The reason I ask is because if it was indeed unwarranted harassment on the teacher's part, you probably would have been better off just letting it go for the moment and filing a complaint with his boss. After all, you had witnesses to corroborate your story. And if the teacher acted like that to you, it probably wasn't the first time. There's a good chance that other students complained about him as well. But blowing up at him, cursing him and getting into a verbal fight over a fucking food wrapper? Now any complaint you make against the dude is gonna be coming from a guy who freaked out over being told to pick up a food wrapper. Even if you complain now, it's easy for people to dismiss that as just a spoiled brat (not saying that's what you are) who just plain doesn't like being told what to do.

I mean, regardless of if the teacher was wrong or not, I think the sensible course of action for you to take would have been to just do what he said, calmly express that you take issue with his treatment of you, and then go file a complaint. But blowing up like you did? What exactly was that supposed to accomplish? That's not gonna land him in any more hot water, literally the ONLY thing it does is potentially land YOUR ass in hot water.

This wasn't about the garbage. By the time the teacher came into the hall, it was about harassment and bullying. I cannot emphasize his attitude through any degree of articulation. I stood up for myself. I don't believe it to be a dumb reason, because when we started arguing it was obvious the garbage was a simple catalyst that ignited some other underlying issue, which, given the evidence, I believe to be prejudice. When someone is so rude and aggressive (as I said, especially in front of others) I take issue and I won't back down no matter the reason whereas I would've if he'd approached me in another manner, that being in mutual respect in private and explained his grievance in accordance to the degree of the offense, with the same asinine request not mattering. I would have done had he asked, that being the case. But he was not respectful. He was rude, he was raising his voice.

Why am I being blamed when it's the teacher who has brought this insignificance to such contention? What exactly is my crime here, especially when my initial action was not predicated on ill-intent or sentiment, but of simple misunderstanding? He is a highly educated professional, supposedly. Standing up for myself in the refusal to not remove garbage from a GARBAGE can, when in fact this wasn't even the teacher's issue, by his own admission of which he stated later when he spoke to the dean!?

So what is my crime? Did I accomplish anything aside from standing my ground and not being bullied over minuscule triviality? Not really. But can you provide me any rationalization aside from "he's the teacher so what he says goes" or "it's not worth it" as any justification of his actions?

You didn't really answer my question. Okay, you "stood up for yourself", but from where I'm standing it seems like you could have stood up for yourself and possibly had more of a good result if you'd pursued other options.

Seriously, what exactly was your goal here? That's not a rhetorical question and that's not me being sarcastic, because what you hoped to accomplish directly affects whether or not what you did was the proper course of action. Did you want to convince the teacher to stop bullying you again? Did you want to get the teacher to stop bullying ANYONE again? Did you want to make yourself feel better by telling the teacher off? Did you want to look good in front of your peers? Seriously, what did you expect to get out of that?

And again, that's a REALLY important question to ask, because that directly affects whether or not your actions accomplished anything worthwhile. I mean, sure you "stood your ground", but that's really not an end goal, it's just a means to an end. I mean, you could choose to "stand your ground" even when you know you're completely 100% wrong. And that's not a good thing. Standing one's ground and refusing to admit that he/she is wrong even when he/she knows that he/she is wrong is generally considered a bad trait. So "standing my ground" doesn't really answer my question. Surely that's not ALL you hoped to accomplish, because if it was then that would sort of make you a=out to be an asshole. The teacher could have been 100% in the right here, and you'd still be an asshole because you'd rather willingly stick to your guns EVEN WHEN YOU'RE WRONG than be the "loser" by changing your stance.

And "not being bullied"? It's too late for that, you WERE bullied. So, again, some clarification is needed. Were you hoping to not be bullied FURTHER? If getting the teacher to STOP bullying you was your goal, wouldn't that have been accomplished more effectively by simply picking up the trash and then making a complaint later?

But again, I don't know what you hoped to accomplish, which is why I'm asking.

I don't think this is really a case of right or wrong, it's really about who lost their cool, and that'd be you.

Professor was a dick, but you shouldn't have lost your temper. Sometimes it is best to just let things go or walk away.

Why didn't you just walk away to begin with? Whats he going to do, chase after you?

Put numbers to your questions in your post.

1) Bullying me "again"? He hadn't bullied me previously, I had took his first statement to me to mean 'You can't enter, class is still in session'. That's why I quietly backed out but still dropped the trash before doing so, because it hadn't even crossed my mind that garbage wasn't allowed in a garbage can. My poor response afterwards was borne and grew initially out of anger over the ludicrousness of his demand and the way he was addressing me after coming at me in the hall. If it makes him never try it again or maybe at least have him consider a different approach in how he conducted himself, all the better but it really wasn't a driving motivation in the heat of argument.

2) I didn't know if he'd been bullying others, so that didn't factor into my response at the time.

3) After a certain point, yes. As you said, I was being bullied which quickly became apparent. It gives me gratification to throw shit immediately back in the face of those who believe they can give it without fear of retribution. There is nothing wrong with making yourself feel better at the expense of others who are treating you like shit. You and I have had previous debates on vengeance of which I am a supporter of in principle (I believe you took the same line of reasoning you are here as you did then). I don't know if you remember that or not, it was a ways back. Him being a teacher greatly intensified my anger. He was attempting to abuse his authority and then ran off for security when I would have none of it.

4) Sure. Not just peers, I'm not going to tolerate someone trying to push me around in front of anyone, peers or otherwise. If they're respectful, I will be very respectful in turn. I get the impression people see me as an asshat, I'm not. Very nice guy, but I am very intolerant of disrespect to myself and to others.

I'll freely concede that gratification, retribution, and ego all played a part in my response when the exchange was coming to its end. This escalated so fast and I have a serious anger problem that I struggle to control once it starts. But he was the one who started this, not me. Unfortunately it looks like both he and I were having bad days, we were both tinderboxes ready to burn, and a simple miscommunication and misconstrued intent set both of us off over the silliest of reasons.

Pick your battles wisely young man sometimes its just not worth it.

@MirkoS77: I did the best thing in that position, the person got made out as the aggressor and as the bad guy, and I defused it instead of escalating, when there are so many witnesses and you already got back up it's better to play the victim as long as your not in any immediate danger. I didn't feel too threatened. the whole thing seemed ridiculous and the dad realised his mistake and fled the scene immediately.

Anyway I don't tend to give out much information about myself. For all you know I'm a 5.4ft girl with a poorly leg. I'm not going to jump into a full on Ong Bak style martial artist fight. Probably be more like one of us getting our tops pulled over our heads and lots of videos from peoples phones being uploaded.

Like the guy above me said, pick your battles wisely.

Like to add while on that subject, I'm leaving that job now. I like the place I work for, but that particular role traps me in a place where I am dealing with customers and I am starting to find myself developing a nervous disposition. I might be moving departments where I am more mobile and behind the scenes. A lot of lovely people out there, but there are a few too many crazy people on the edge of psychotic. Thing is they are normally the ones you don't expect. There might also be something about me that rubs certain characters the wrong way.

Equal treatment? So if someone wanted to dump garbage on your front lawn then that's okay?

In a garbage can? No problem. Of course, I'd own that land, he doesn't own the school, he teaches there.

Why does having a can matter? Equal treatment. Just dump the garbage on your property....who cares. He's responsible for his room. You do have an air of self entitlement. it's coming through quite clearly in your comments. Rules don't apply to you. You don't have to listen.

And you called me a dick? That's exactly how you are presenting.

A garbage can matters because it's where garbage is placed. His class was over, and there were two students and himself inside, all minding their own business. It wasn't like I wanted to come in and sit down. I cracked the door open to slip the trash in. When confronted, I hastily exited without giving it consideration because, again, 1) I mistook the meaning of what he said as the class still being in session, and 2) have been putting garbage in garbage cans my entire life (and this entire semester) without incident. There was nothing I did there that was wrong. Rules apply to me, but rules have to be consistent for me to be able to abide by them. Not change so I have to begin a database to keep track when the SAME FUCKING RULE doesn't apply here but all of a sudden does there when a teacher decides to alter them arbitrarily. Of which your only defense is, "He's a teacher, he can do what he wants". Right......and then I'm accused for not only being ignorant of these new rules, but held at fault for breaking them, in addition to then being labelled entitled to boot. Real superb logic LJS, pardon me if I'm not convinced.

I shouldn't have called you a dick. What you're being is a contrarian, because of this:

"You ARE to blame. And just because there is not a class doesn't mean it's not his class room. It sure as hell wasn't yours. You did the wrong thing and you came here to be told you didn't. Period."

The underlined is what's really bothering you, it's what this is about, and it's why you're pressing the point so much. I don't think any action I actually took in this incident is the main motive for your disagreement of it as much as just contradicting my position simply because you believe I came here seeking validation and affirmation of my actions and you need to be the one that doesn't play ball.

Well you said you have done this before and he/she didn't say anything. When something irritating happens over and over, your gonna get it one day. I would say it was very int-eruptive behavior. I urge you to stop messing around if you want to achieve goals in your school. This type of behavior, as silly as it might be, might play in how your future enrolls. Just don't do it any more, and it might be forgotten. I would have definitely kept the trash in my pocket.

I've never said I did this in front of him before. I've always thrown my trash away in front of my instructor. If this guy had a problem, he should've taken me aside and explained it instead of rushing out and start raising his voice to me in front of others. How was I supposed to react? How was I to know given past precedent that what I was doing was in the wrong? Firstly,

• if they are going to put food and drink vending machines in the building with no trash receptacles in the hallways but only in classrooms (I can provide pictures if anyone would like), how can they then hold people accountable for putting trash in only where it is available to do so? In that case, they should put a label on the trash can that reads "no food wrapper/drink containers allowed". A very simple solution to this whole problem to keep us entitled folk in line.

Secondly,

• I wish people would stop approaching this as me giving attitude outright, as me being some entitled brat or some other attempted pathetic transparent shaming tactic, or that I'm not going to get my "goals" in life because I'm messing around. I had no ill-intent here. NONE. If anything, my actions were bred of ignorance stemming from double standards that were changed under whim of an authority deemed suitable to his agenda, of no fault of my own, and then placed at fault when I wasn't aware.

I won't do this behavior anymore, hell I'll walk on eggshells when I encounter this dickhead of a "professor" walking the halls, because before I know it, walking there or on even on the sidewalk will have me in the dean's office when I protest while also having me called entitled. What's next? Breathing oxygen?

**** teachers and their battered egos in general.

Against a teacher in a campus, you'll lose every time. That's why I recommend just apologizing and letting it go even if you're right. You can't dwell on it.

Well maybe next time you'll know better and just throw your garbage on the floor.

The dude controls your grade.

You're always wrong unless you agree with him.

while agree w/ you, trash in the trash can, if i were in the situation i'd probably just pick it up, make a smart-ass comment and be on my way. not worth getting in a big argument over something so petty. college is a place to learn and one of the lessons in life is some people are just assholes.

Teacher should seriously know when to pick his battles, this isn't one of them. You did right. I'd hate to be an administrator thinking you don't want to fire this guy over something so petty but that's super douchie of him to do to a student anyways, he's probably on thin ice but my guess should be no punishment going to you.

Anyhow, I'd be there everyday to eye down the teacher on the way into class, hell I'd have an empty Doritos bag in hand, I'd have my willing friends do the same to create a unified front.

Please tell me this is high school, if this is college then goddamn.

Guessing the teacher had a shit day & looking for someone to pick on & it happens to be you @MirkoS77. Don't dwell on it...just another dick you happen to meet in life. :P

Both of you acted like babies,but you went overboard with the swearing.

Right or wrong, you should have picked the trash to be the bigger man.

Not every appeal to authority is inappropriate. Students should respect teachers' authority where possible, barring being asked to do something immoral, illegal, dangerous, or unreasonably damaging to themselves.

The teacher's seemingly arbitrary and petty application of his authority would have angered me, and I would have demanded an explanation and argued the point after I complied, but I would have complied first.

I'm right here, you don't need to address this in the third person, nor be afraid to reply to me directly if you're under the assumption I'm no longer reading replies to this thread and that this will slip by unnoticed.

About taking advice: I've already conceded some wrongdoing in my response on more than one occasion, but I've never doubted once the right/wrongness that that response arose from, I still don't, and I still stand by what I said. Was it a dumb reason for this whole thing to start? Yes, but I'm not at fault for it. It was only the ignition to what I believe was a larger issue.

I responded calmly initially in the hallway upon first being confronted, at first I was a bit in shock by how angry he was, it was only after he began ordering me in increasing tone and temperament (in front of others) that I got really upset. This was not polite on his part, and I think many in my position would've acted similarly. I will defend my response even though it could've been handled better, because the teacher was bullying me, of that I've no doubt. Even if I'd gotten up and picked up the trash I suspect he'd of continued to berate me. He was angry far disproportionate to any action I committed, so if you want to imply I'm an ill-tempered child, best to do so for him as well. It is very easy to armchair quarterback this and pass judgement on me, but you were not there.

Might come as a shock to you, but I'm very open minded to others' opinions, I take them to heart, but I must be convinced with a good argument. Not accusations of entitlement, not transparent and condescending "first world problem" laughable shaming tactics thrown my way. Sorry, it doesn't work. One person in this thread that has been really productive is MrGeezer. He helped me look into why I acted the way I did and gave me food for thought by asking those questions, of which I answered completely honestly.

The title could've been better I'll admit. More along the lines of "Was my response justified?" would've been more suitable. But I wasn't looking for confirmation of what I already knew to be correct, that's just the direction the thread went which is no surprise given the topic, so perhaps I should've articulated my goals better from the start but I had to explain the situation at first.

truth

and you were right to call him a dick, don't worry

hi ljs :>

I would just move on from it, and try to get your course over and done with.

At my college, they have a similar "no food in the classroom rawr" rule, but nobody has really followed it or enforced it much. I think the only place where people really make an effort to follow that rule is at our school's library.

And at this point I think most of us going to the school are grown-ass adults so why the hell can't we take food and drink into class? My ex works all day and goes to class at night, she is probably famished by then. I can understand maybe having the rule in classes where there are expensive school-owned books or desktop computers that could be potentially ruined, but still...

because teachers like the op described want POWER and be IMPORTANT

it's all a joke, teacher should be ashamed of himself

Sounds life a Wife Beater to me. Straight to violence. Feeble mind trying to express itself forcibly.

What is edgy, I made a polite response to you?

The teacher was overbearing. I really wish you could've been there, I escalated it to his level but I was not the one who instigated it to his level initially. I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

Nope, not a wife beater nor feeble minded, just someone who stands up for themselves if someone else is physically assaulting them, which is what you were being yet you did nothing. That's 100% contemptuous in my view, still you came to me in your first reply attempting to hold your example in not only an example of what is acceptable to do in such a light, but of being exemplary of an action of someone who holds bigger, more relevant problems in their life than what one could be bothered with. I'll repeat: action from principle. There's a big distinction which you don't seem to grasp.

I read your edit. You're moving on.....that's probably for the best. If I were one to let people treat me in such a manner as you explained while I sit there contemplating their action in the context of the "importance" of my life I'd probably not set my foot out the front door everyday. Behind the lines is better suited to you lest you become a nervous wreck. There's no excuse for physical assault aside from retributive action stemming from the same, except for women of which I don't hit, as they are by nature weaker than men. I'm straight to violence when violence is brought to me on other equitable terms, yes. That is not indicative of a feeble mind.

Can you give me an argument as to why that's not warranted? Don't think I'm closed minded here, I'm not. But you have to convince me.

@MrPraline: Ah you came out from under your bridge. Too bad most users in this thread agree with me. Guess you're out of luck.

Well that's a huge weight off my shoulders. But you still didn't answer my other questions.

Just so I'm reading this right: you immediately resort to a suitable stereotype based on what actions you see people do? I hope it's not that simple for you. Aside, don't argue under the impression that this teacher had come to me with any semblance of cordiality. He had made a big deal out of it before I ever did.

Hey its alex!

It would be nice if all students acted like adults. But, many are still kids in overgrown bodies. In Mirko's case, it was an overbearing teacher. I didn't think Mirko deserved to be barked at.

But, in other situations I've seen, there are students who just let chips fall on the floor and leave them there. Then, when the next class (mine) walks in, there are crumbs on the floor, oily and sticky spots on some of the desks.

I've done my share of eating in class (eg hot, freshly cooked chicken wings). - mostly in lab where we're cooped up for hours and have huge wide desks - But, I always have packets of alcohol wipes and paper towels with me so I can clean up after myself.

I would have just walked away, leaving the trash in the can where it belongs without engaging. If this isn't a professor of yours, screw him. It sounds like he was being a dick.

Teacher was in the right but he was being a dick about it. If you truly threw food in that classrooms waste basket (It doesn't matter if you call it trash, FOOD is still FOOD), would have been better for him to gave simple reason why its not allow (I.E he doesn't want to attract pest like mice, rats, or ants to his classroom. Or he could simply used the reason he already gave you but said it in a more courteous way). Then the ball would have been in your court to show that you aren't simply there to cause trouble....

hi :> how have you been tho?

Fine. And yourself MrP?

good to hear, same old mostly

shame ot's still so dead

@MrPraline:

Yeah. I kind of stop in here and there sometimes. But never like in the past. Take it easy.