Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia Crime Rate Plummets

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

The OP links to an article from 1997

kingkong0124

lolol

Not why I am laughing. Was treating article as news until realizing this is OLD (have read about before). I don't think the gun thing has fundamentally changed since '97.

The government shouldn't force anybody to buy anything. Thats just as bad as preventing people from owning guns.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

Beautiful. This is quite remarkable as well considering the Atlanta metropolitan area is filled with violent hoodlums.

kingkong0124

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]No. And if I didn't support the cities mandate I could opt out of it by saying it's against my religion to use firearms. Unlike Obamacare. But somehow this is hypocritical? Explain this one to me please.LOXO7

There are exceptions in Obamacare as well. Regardless of any exceptions you cannot think that one mandate requiring people to buy something is ok while condemning another. At least not without some serious cognative dissonance.

You can pay a penalty, oh wait, fine, oh wait again, a tax (are they not all the same in reality?) if you choose not to purchase insurance. Talk about increasing revenues for the government, It sure will be a big one from the looks of things.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

There are exceptions in Obamacare as well. Regardless of any exceptions you cannot think that one mandate requiring people to buy something is ok while condemning another. At least not without some serious cognative dissonance.

WhiteKnight77

You can pay a penalty, oh wait, fine, oh wait again, a tax (are they not all the same in reality?) if you choose not to purchase insurance. Talk about increasing revenues for the government, It sure will be a big one from the looks of things.

There are also exemptions for income level. The bloody point is that all mandates have some exemptions and do not necessarily justify their intrusions.

[QUOTE="GamerForca"]

1. I've seen this thread at least 3 times in the past.
2. The city's population is around 30k, not 13k, and it's part of the Atlanta metro area. There's nearly a million people living in Cobb County.
3. People still don't understand that socio-demographics of varying places has more to do with gun crime than anything else. If guns in Kennesaw were illegal and everyone had one in downtown Atlanta, there'd still be many shootings in Atlanta and virtually none in Kennesaw. If everyone had a gun in Kennesaw and they were banned in Atlanta, there'd still be many shootings in Atlanta and virtually none in Kennesaw.

LOXO7

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

There are exceptions in Obamacare as well. Regardless of any exceptions you cannot think that one mandate requiring people to buy something is ok while condemning another. At least not without some serious cognative dissonance.

WhiteKnight77

You can pay a penalty, oh wait, fine, oh wait again, a tax (are they not all the same in reality?) if you choose not to purchase insurance. Talk about increasing revenues for the government, It sure will be a big one from the looks of things.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

You're required to own a weapon?

but i thought the big bad government cant make you buy stuff

l4dak47

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] Name some Obamacare exemptions. I am unaware.coolbeans90

You can pay a penalty, oh wait, fine, oh wait again, a tax (are they not all the same in reality?) if you choose not to purchase insurance. Talk about increasing revenues for the government, It sure will be a big one from the looks of things.

There are also exemptions for income level. The bloody point is that all mandates have some exemptions and do not necessarily justify their intrusions.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

You're required to own a weapon?

but i thought the big bad government cant make you buy stuff

Aljosa23

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

You're required to own a weapon?

but i thought the big bad government cant make you buy stuff

th3warr1or

What is truely sad is the fact that shooting sprees are the equivalent to a doorbuster sales ad for the gun industry.

I wouldn't be shocked if gun stores held on-the-fly sales this week to cash in on the Colorado killer's murder spree.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="GamerForca"]

1. I've seen this thread at least 3 times in the past.
2. The city's population is around 30k, not 13k, and it's part of the Atlanta metro area. There's nearly a million people living in Cobb County.
3. People still don't understand that socio-demographics of varying places has more to do with gun crime than anything else. If guns in Kennesaw were illegal and everyone had one in downtown Atlanta, there'd still be many shootings in Atlanta and virtually none in Kennesaw. If everyone had a gun in Kennesaw and they were banned in Atlanta, there'd still be many shootings in Atlanta and virtually none in Kennesaw.

GamerForca

So there is another force at work. You are saying that there is a cultural difference that causes or prevents violence. I believe this cultural difference is caused by the drug war. In a city near mine there have been several shootings in the past few weeks, all of which are said to be from gangs that are funded by drug trafficking. This is why drugs should be legal.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

You can pay a penalty, oh wait, fine, oh wait again, a tax (are they not all the same in reality?) if you choose not to purchase insurance. Talk about increasing revenues for the government, It sure will be a big one from the looks of things.

LOXO7

It was called all of what I mentioned at one time or another during the course of explaining what would happen if someone didn't buy insurance and declared a tax by the SC.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="GamerForca"]

1. I've seen this thread at least 3 times in the past.
2. The city's population is around 30k, not 13k, and it's part of the Atlanta metro area. There's nearly a million people living in Cobb County.
3. People still don't understand that socio-demographics of varying places has more to do with gun crime than anything else. If guns in Kennesaw were illegal and everyone had one in downtown Atlanta, there'd still be many shootings in Atlanta and virtually none in Kennesaw. If everyone had a gun in Kennesaw and they were banned in Atlanta, there'd still be many shootings in Atlanta and virtually none in Kennesaw.

GamerForca

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

You can pay a penalty, oh wait, fine, oh wait again, a tax (are they not all the same in reality?) if you choose not to purchase insurance. Talk about increasing revenues for the government, It sure will be a big one from the looks of things.

LOXO7

There are also exemptions for income level. The bloody point is that all mandates have some exemptions and do not necessarily justify their intrusions.

Also, I suppose it would be fair for me to say that you are okay with big government stuff you like. I.e. - you prefer a different flavor. So, fvck off.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

There are also exemptions for income level. The bloody point is that all mandates have some exemptions and do not necessarily justify their intrusions.

coolbeans90

Also, I suppose it would be fair for me to say that you are okay with big government stuff you like. I.e. - you prefer a different flavor. So, fvck off.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] The exemptions are free in this gun law. They are not in the individual mandate. Not all exemptions are equal. Just because you say Obamacare has exemptions doesn't mean it's the same as this gun law having exemptions. And paying a tax isn't and equal exemption. Cutting jobs in your business just to get under the 50 employee to save money isn't an equal exemption. All government institutions should have the opt out exemption.LOXO7

Also, I suppose it would be fair for me to say that you are okay with big government stuff you like. I.e. - you prefer a different flavor. So, fvck off.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]There are free exemptions to Individual mandate. The 50 employees thing has NOTHING to do with the individual mandate. PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT YOU REFER TO.

Also, I suppose it would be fair for me to say that you are okay with big government stuff you like. I.e. - you prefer a different flavor. So, fvck off.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]There are free exemptions to Individual mandate. The 50 employees thing has NOTHING to do with the individual mandate. PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT YOU REFER TO.

Also, I suppose it would be fair for me to say that you are okay with big government stuff you like. I.e. - you prefer a different flavor. So, fvck off.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] Please enlighten me. I don't know of the free exemptions that you speak of.

noscope-ak47

Same with health insurance, but that's besides the point. IT'S NOT FREE.

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]I already brought up one. If you have an income below a certain level, you are not required to purchase health insurance. Also, you are an idiot. How the fvck is requiring people to own firearms free? You realize that would necessitate people to purchase firearms and (depending on the details of the legislation) ammunition - neither of which are cheap.

coolbeans90

Same with health insurance, but that's besides the point. IT'S NOT FREE.

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]I already brought up one. If you have an income below a certain level, you are not required to purchase health insurance. Also, you are an idiot. How the fvck is requiring people to own firearms free? You realize that would necessitate people to purchase firearms and (depending on the details of the legislation) ammunition - neither of which are cheap.

coolbeans90

Same with health insurance, but that's besides the point. IT'S NOT FREE.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] Please enlighten me. I don't know of the free exemptions that you speak of.

LOXO7

The exception to religious objection applies only to those who hold certain religious viewpoints - so, no the exemption does not apply to all people. Only certain kinds of people. Atheists, I'm sure, are unable to opt out of this due to "religious objections" considering their lack of religion. AND IF ANYONE COULD DECIDE TO NOT GO FOR THE MANDATE BECAUSE EXEMPTIONS ARE GIVEN OUT FREELY TO ERRYBODY, IT IS NOT AN EXEMPTION. It is a letter from the government begging people to buy guns. Good fvcking Jesus.

Mandatory gun ownership?

I don't believe you.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]If you can't afford a gun and a box of ammo this requirement is the least of your problems.

LOXO7

Same with health insurance, but that's besides the point. IT'S NOT FREE.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]If you can't afford a gun and a box of ammo this requirement is the least of your problems.

noscope-ak47

Same with health insurance, but that's besides the point. IT'S NOT FREE.

I have both. My point is that one user was upset that sh!t wasn't free. WELL, NEITHER ARE.

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Same with health insurance, but that's besides the point. IT'S NOT FREE.

coolbeans90

I have both. My point is that one user was upset that sh!t wasn't free. WELL, NEITHER ARE.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]You want good health coverage then get a good job or pay for it. I understand times are hard and the economy is going to hell but what can you do besides try to take care of your family. If your qualified you can join the military if your not afraid to take orders, stay in shape,be on time,act normal and work hard (shameless plug).

noscope-ak47

I have both. My point is that one user was upset that sh!t wasn't free. WELL, NEITHER ARE.

Nothing is ever free. Eh, Canada's tax rates are only a little higher than ours, IIRC. Apparently, the United States Federal Gov't pays for ~50% of health care expenditures - but because our health care costs 2-3 times as much as most other nations, basically taxpayer's are footing the same bill as other countries are, but without universal coverage. Our system has problems.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]I already brought up one. If you have an income below a certain level, you are not required to purchase health insurance. Also, you are an idiot. How the fvck is requiring people to own firearms free? You realize that would necessitate people to purchase firearms and (depending on the details of the legislation) ammunition - neither of which are cheap.

coolbeans90

The exception to religious objection applies only to those who hold certain religious viewpoints - so, no the exemption does not apply to all people. Only certain kinds of people. Atheists, I'm sure, are unable to opt out of this due to "religious objections" considering their lack of religion. AND IF ANYONE COULD DECIDE TO NOT GO FOR THE MANDATE BECAUSE EXEMPTIONS ARE GIVEN OUT FREELY TO ERRYBODY, IT IS NOT AN EXEMPTION. It is a letter from the government begging people to buy guns. Good fvcking Jesus.

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I have both. My point is that one user was upset that sh!t wasn't free. WELL, NEITHER ARE.

coolbeans90

Nothing is ever free. Eh, Canada's tax rates are only a little higher than ours, IIRC. Apparently, the United States Federal Gov't pays for ~50% of health care expenditures - but because our health care costs 2-3 times as much as most other nations, basically taxpayer's are footing the same bill as other countries are, but without universal coverage. Our system has problems.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] That is not an an equal exemption to the first amendment. The first amendment is for all Americans. The exception for the individual mandate is for only certain kind of people. What the ****? Did I miss something? I must have because I'm an idiot. Man. It's really hard to continue with this ignorance.LOXO7

The exception to religious objection applies only to those who hold certain religious viewpoints - so, no the exemption does not apply to all people. Only certain kinds of people. Atheists, I'm sure, are unable to opt out of this due to "religious objections" considering their lack of religion. AND IF ANYONE COULD DECIDE TO NOT GO FOR THE MANDATE BECAUSE EXEMPTIONS ARE GIVEN OUT FREELY TO ERRYBODY, IT IS NOT AN EXEMPTION. It is a letter from the government begging people to buy guns. Good fvcking Jesus.

The U.S. constitution isn't fascist. It also does not mandate gun ownership. I am all for people to exercising their constitutional rights and owning firearms. I am not for forcing (mandating) them to do so. I am also not inclined to force people to invoke the fifth amendment at every encounter with a law enforcement officer. Also, what the fvck does this have to do with Obama and why am I suddenly a supporter of his when I have voiced negative opinions on such mandates in general? Are you trolling?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]Not sure why anybody would think it would be that is not how America works. The comment was not aimed at you. I have family in canada and the free healthcare is paid for with insane tax rates. Also the healthcare is not that great they actually came to the states to get better healthcare. I had to do some paperwork to get them on my tri-care plan.

noscope-ak47

Nothing is ever free. Eh, Canada's tax rates are only a little higher than ours, IIRC. Apparently, the United States Federal Gov't pays for ~50% of health care expenditures - but because our health care costs 2-3 times as much as most other nations, basically taxpayer's are footing the same bill as other countries are, but without universal coverage. Our system has problems.

HMM

I didn't think about local taxes. And I don't know anyone in Canada so I can't confirm. 20 percent seems rather pedestrian. I mean, I've always paid more than that (and I don't make a whole lot of money as a college student) here just on paychecks, and that doesn't even get to things like sales taxes, property/vehicle taxes, etc.

shouldn't you conservative-libertarian types being going ape over being forced to buy something, shouldn't you be screaming about how freedom is dead?lamprey263

hi

dunno that i'd call myself a libertarian per se, but prob more a rightie than a leftie.

Correlation does not equate to causation. Also, crime in general has been going down all across the United States. l4dak47

I will agree that the crime rate of a single city of 13,000 people isn't enough to prove that more guns = less crime. However, if 10 cities of varying size all did the same type of thing and had the same results, that would be more than coincidence. At a certain point, correlation does indicate causation. It's not absolute proof per se, but it does strongly indicate it.

shouldn't you conservative-libertarian types being going ape over being forced to buy something, shouldn't you be screaming about how freedom is dead?lamprey263

Yes?

You don't think conservative libertarians are agains this?

[QUOTE="lamprey263"]shouldn't you conservative-libertarian types being going ape over being forced to buy something, shouldn't you be screaming about how freedom is dead?Necrifer

Yes?

You don't think conservative libertarians are agains this?

shouldn't you conservative-libertarian types being going ape over being forced to buy something, shouldn't you be screaming about how freedom is dead?lamprey263

The difference is that this is a local law. If someone doesn't like it all they have to do is get the city council to repeal it or move just outside city limits. With huge federal mandates you are screwed. That is why you hear libertarians talk about states rights and trying to place more of the political power within the immediate reach of the populace at the local or state level of government; those are easier for the electorate to influence, and if push comes to shove they can leave thier town, county, or even state but still be American.

[QUOTE="noscope-ak47"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Nothing is ever free. Eh, Canada's tax rates are only a little higher than ours, IIRC. Apparently, the United States Federal Gov't pays for ~50% of health care expenditures - but because our health care costs 2-3 times as much as most other nations, basically taxpayer's are footing the same bill as other countries are, but without universal coverage. Our system has problems.

coolbeans90

HMM

I didn't think about local taxes. And I don't know anyone in Canada so I can't confirm. 20 percent seems rather pedestrian. I mean, I've always paid more than that (and I don't make a whole lot of money as a college student) here just on paychecks, and that doesn't even get to things like sales taxes, property/vehicle taxes, etc.

Pretty sure for most people who never get sick the canada way is ok but when you do get sick then the system has major issues. The only issues america has is when you don't have coverage. I saw a story on the news about a lady that had a stroke with no coverage and they just treated her and kicked her out. Told her she needed pricey meds and to go see a heart doctor of course she could not affort it and died. I would like to think most americans that work hard can afford coverage unless you have a pre-existing condition and smoke and are fat for example.

1. I've seen this thread at least 3 times in the past.
2. The city's population is around 30k, not 13k, and it's part of the Atlanta metro area. There's nearly a million people living in Cobb County.
3. People still don't understand that socio-demographics of varying places has more to do with gun crime than anything else. If guns in Kennesaw were illegal and everyone had one in downtown Atlanta, there'd still be many shootings in Atlanta and virtually none in Kennesaw. If everyone had a gun in Kennesaw and they were banned in Atlanta, there'd still be many shootings in Atlanta and virtually none in Kennesaw.

GamerForca

This is basically it. High murder rates basically correlate with drug turf wars. Look at Mexico.

When you deal in black market goods and substances, you can't rely on the LAW to enforce your contracts and allow fair competition. You've got to do it yourself. Same story with prohibition, Al Capone, and tommy guns.

And if you already have channels set up for smuggling drugs, you might as well smuggle in some weapons. There will be a real demand for them, because (unlike your typical NRA member), drug dealers have good cause for paranoia.

nice.

i was reading a story once while back about lady in uk. She telling story how she had a intruder at night in her house. She couldn't do anything to protect her self no more because of the gun ban. messed up

I know this topic is not about gun bans ect. but just find it funny that media and someone attempt to push gun bans ect YET nearly every gun related crime is by people who use a illegal guns that has been imported or stolen

nice.

i was reading a story once while back about lady in uk. She telling story how she had a intruder at night in her house. She couldn't do anything to protect her self no more because of the gun ban. messed up

I know this topic is not about gun bans ect. but just find it funny that media and someone attempt to push gun bans ect YET nearly every gun related crime is by people who use a illegal guns that has been imported or stolen

k2theswiss

There was another story where a UK farmer shot two robbers but got arrested for violating the gun ban.

There are communities such as Kennesaw, Georgia that do well even with guns while some communities are just downright violent and decadent. Where I live, guns aren't plentiful but there are those who buy and shot them at the range and there's barely any crime here. Although states and local communities have their own set of gun laws, the federal government should stay out of the debate and just let the state and local communities come up with their own laws on guns whether it may be lax or strict as long as it's constitutional.

I don't understand why everyone thinks the federal government should step in and implement gun control or gun bans when they should appeal to their communities. What's wrong with that?

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

You're required to own a weapon?

but i thought the big bad government cant make you buy stuff

l4dak47

Maybe if we just outlawed common sense stuff like assault weapons and 100 round clips, tragedies like this could be prevented.