health care privilege or right?

Do you think people should pay out there own pocket for care? Or do you think we all share a right to life?

As i see it if the government protects us from fire , crime and invasion they should also care for there citizens well being .

I think that health care is a right. I didn't ask for type 1 diabetes but i got it and they should pay for it, or they should stop being idiots with the stem cell research cause they are very close to a cure but keep wasting our money on **** like cloning animals.

Do you think people should pay out there own pocket for care? Or do you think we all share a right to life?

As i see it if the government protects us from fire , crime and invasion they should also care for there citizens well being .

dontshackzmii

I believe it to be a right. The U.S. government also believes it to be a right as well. It's been that way ever since we voted in favor of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which was then adopted by the UN, that among other things states;

"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

And yet somehow we are the only developed country without universal health care.

It's a right by every single possible standard. To say people have the right to life but not to health is the same thing as saying people have the right to protest but can't protest outside of their homes.

Healthcare is not a right. Just because you can't or won't provide something for yourself doesn't give you the right to steal it from someone else.

Healthcare is not a right. Just because you can't or won't provide something for yourself doesn't give you the right to steal it from someone else.

aransom

I believe it's mostly a privlege.

If you can't afford it because you are irresponsible, it shouldn't be handed out to you at the expense of my own care, and my wallet.

But if you genuinely need help, then you should be helped. I'm not heartless. If something happened that prevents you from working, you need to be taken care of, to a certain extent.

To think the government is responsible for taking care of you ALL the time is ridiculous and not at all what the founders intended when they instituted the federal government.

Life/death healthcare= right.
Cosmetic Health care (plastic surgery for just one example)= privilege.

[QUOTE="aransom"]

Healthcare is not a right. Just because you can't or won't provide something for yourself doesn't give you the right to steal it from someone else.

xTheExploited

Healthcare is not a right. Just because you can't or won't provide something for yourself doesn't give you the right to steal it from someone else.

aransom

Why do people act like people can 100% help their health in all areas at all times? There are such things as accidents and unforseen complications. Why should those people be screwed? Who are they stealing from? How can you 'steal' healthcare?

[QUOTE="aransom"]

Healthcare is not a right. Just because you can't or won't provide something for yourself doesn't give you the right to steal it from someone else.

xTheExploited

I believe it's mostly a privlege.

If you can't afford it because you are irresponsible, it shouldn't be handed out to you at the expense of my own care, and my wallet.

But if you genuinely need help, then you should be helped. I'm not heartless. If something happened that prevents you from working, you need to be taken care of, to a certain extent.

To think the government is responsible for taking care of you ALL the time is ridiculous and not at all what the founders intended when they instituted the federal government.

airshocker

I have to agree with aransom. It's not my job to pay for anybody except me and my own.

My biggest fear is health-care rationing that is happening in UK. My wife is at a high-risk for breast cancer, and if this health-care change goes into effect, we'll have the same exact system the Brits do.

I'm sorry, but why would I choose that when I can pay for my own insurance and not have the government interfere?

Have you talked to the founders of our country and asked them what they think about modern issues that they would have no way of thinking about hundreds of years ago when this country was born? We don't have the founders around and don't know what they did or did not intend unless you can textually prove that to me where they talked about healthcare... otherwise, it is irresponsible arguing to claim to have the founders on your side for this argument.SkylinePigeon

It's my opinion. You don't have to agree with it. From everything I've read on the founders and the constitution, they didn't intend for socialism to take over the country.

I believe we fought a war against it in the 80s, too.

I have to agree with aransom. It's not my job to pay for anybody except me and my own.

My biggest fear is health-care rationing that is happening in UK. My wife is at a high-risk for breast cancer, and if this health-care change goes into effect, we'll have the same exact system the Brits do.

I'm sorry, but why would I choose that when I can pay for my own insurance and not have the government interfere?

airshocker

In America you pay far more for the same care. they made a man pay 60,000$ just to put the tip of his finger back on . i even heard they make you pay like 30$ for a 50 cent box of tissues to blow your nose

[QUOTE="xTheExploited"][QUOTE="aransom"]

Healthcare is not a right. Just because you can't or won't provide something for yourself doesn't give you the right to steal it from someone else.

aransom

In America you pay far more for the same care. they made a man pay 60,000$ just to put the tip of his finger back on . i even heard they make you pay like 30$ for a 50 cent box of tissues to blow your nose

dontshackzmii

WHy don't you back that up with some proof.

Secondly, we don't pay far more for the same care. A certain breast-cancer drug that isn't available under the UK's public-care plan, whatever it's called, is available in the United States for women with insurance.

I believe it's a right, but every rights and privileges are arbitrary and subjective.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I have to agree with aransom. It's not my job to pay for anybody except me and my own.

My biggest fear is health-care rationing that is happening in UK. My wife is at a high-risk for breast cancer, and if this health-care change goes into effect, we'll have the same exact system the Brits do.

I'm sorry, but why would I choose that when I can pay for my own insurance and not have the government interfere?

In America you pay far more for the same care. they made a man pay 60,000$ just to put the tip of his finger back on . i even heard they make you pay like 30$ for a 50 cent box of tissues to blow your nose

That does not take healthcare away from someone. You just don't want to pay money that could be used in helping another person. Its like with what is happening in Haiti. From what you have said it could be assumed that you are against people donating money to those who are currently in need in Haiti because its giving your hard earned money to someone who can't afford it themselves.xTheExploited

Who are you to say where any of my hard-earned money goes to?

If you didn't work for it, it's not yours. Keep your hands in your own pockets.

FYI, I did donate money to Haiti. And I volunteered in my Guard unit to go to Haiti for disaster relief. I know you weren't talking to me, but this is a preemp to anybody trying to say I'm cold and greedy.

[QUOTE="aransom"]

[QUOTE="xTheExploited"] Could you please explain how nationalised healthcare would steal healthcare from some people?xTheExploited

I have to agree with aransom. It's not my job to pay for anybody except me and my own.

My biggest fear is health-care rationing that is happening in UK. My wife is at a high-risk for breast cancer, and if this health-care change goes into effect, we'll have the same exact system the Brits do.

I'm sorry, but why would I choose that when I can pay for my own insurance and not have the government interfere?

airshocker

[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]

In America you pay far more for the same care. they made a man pay 60,000$ just to put the tip of his finger back on . i even heard they make you pay like 30$ for a 50 cent box of tissues to blow your nose

WHy don't you back that up with some proof.

Secondly, we don't pay far more for the same care. A certain breast-cancer drug that isn't available under the UK's public-care plan, whatever it's called, is available in the United States for women with insurance.

Is it a right to live?

I don't know why that is even a question in the modern world.

But thats just my point of view as a Canadian, I know many americans disagree with that statement.

[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]

In America you pay far more for the same care. they made a man pay 60,000$ just to put the tip of his finger back on . i even heard they make you pay like 30$ for a 50 cent box of tissues to blow your nose

airshocker

WHy don't you back that up with some proof.

Secondly, we don't pay far more for the same care. A certain breast-cancer drug that isn't available under the UK's public-care plan, whatever it's called, is available in the United States for women with insurance.

they will only pay if they can make money off you. better hope they will cover everything . becomes to expensive then say good bye to care. Uk has no problems getting the lastest and greatest medications .

Our health care system would look nothing like the system in the UK if health care reform is passed. Health care will remain in the hands of the private sector (well, except for the VA, which IS comparable to the UK system). -Sun_Tzu-

You're going to have to provide some proof. And don't say because Obama said so. That's not proof.

Because last time I checked, if you only had ten thousand units of a single medicine, and five million people who need it, there's going to be rationing.

Yes, that's a very simplistic view, but it makes my mind up.

[QUOTE="xTheExploited"]That does not take healthcare away from someone. You just don't want to pay money that could be used in helping another person. Its like with what is happening in Haiti. From what you have said it could be assumed that you are against people donating money to those who are currently in need in Haiti because its giving your hard earned money to someone who can't afford it themselves.airshocker

Who are you to say where any of my hard-earned money goes to?

Your "hard-earned money" wouldn't be here if somebody else didn't give up their hard-earned money. There wouldn't be roads for you to go to work, there wouldn't be a boss to pay you (do you really think that he pays you money from a vacuum?) and on and on and on. You can't use a ****ing bathroom without using money someone else spent.

they will only pay if they can make money off you. better hope they will cover everything . becomes to expensive then say good bye to care. Uk has no problems getting the lastest and greatest medications .

dontshackzmii

I'm going to have to call BS on that one. I gave you an example. It's time for you to give me some proof.

[QUOTE="xTheExploited"]That does not take healthcare away from someone. You just don't want to pay money that could be used in helping another person. Its like with what is happening in Haiti. From what you have said it could be assumed that you are against people donating money to those who are currently in need in Haiti because its giving your hard earned money to someone who can't afford it themselves.airshocker

Who are you to say where any of my hard-earned money goes to?

If you didn't work for it, it's not yours. Keep your hands in your own pockets.

FYI, I did donate money to Haiti. And I volunteered in my Guard unit to go to Haiti for disaster relief. I know you weren't talking to me, but this is a preemp to anybody trying to say I'm cold and greedy.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Our health care system would look nothing like the system in the UK if health care reform is passed. Health care will remain in the hands of the private sector (well, except for the VA, which IS comparable to the UK system). airshocker

You're going to have to provide some proof. And don't say because Obama said so. That's not proof.

Because last time I checked, if you only had ten thousand units of a single medicine, and five million people who need it, there's going to be rationing.

Yes, that's a very simplistic view, but it makes my mind up.

Your "hard-earned money" wouldn't be here if somebody else didn't give up their hard-earned money. There wouldn't be roads for you to go to work, there wouldn't be a boss ot pay you (do you really think that he pays you money from a vacuum?) and on and on and on. You can't use a ****ing bathroom without using money someone else spent.

Theokhoth

Last time I checked, I pay taxes for the road-work.

Everything else you said makes absolutely no sense and has no relevence to this.

You have no right to tell me what I can and can't spend my money on. Like-wise, the government has no right to tax me in order to pay for someone else. Unfortunately in this liberal and statist world, they seem to think the opposite.

I have a solution. If you want to pay for someone else's medical care, you can. But leave me out of it. I have a family to take care of. I don't need to be worrying about anybody else. Nor should I have to.

Is it a right to live?

I don't know why that is even a question in the modern world.

But thats just my point of view as a Canadian, I know many americans disagree with that statement.

htekemerald

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Your "hard-earned money" wouldn't be here if somebody else didn't give up their hard-earned money. There wouldn't be roads for you to go to work, there wouldn't be a boss ot pay you (do you really think that he pays you money from a vacuum?) and on and on and on. You can't use a ****ing bathroom without using money someone else spent.

airshocker

Last time I checked, I pay taxes for the road-work.

Everything else you said makes absolutely no sense and has no relevence to this.

And what's the difference between that and taxes for healthcare? :| Everybody pays taxes, not just you.

You don't want your "hard-earned money" spent, yet you spend other people's money every time you flush a toilet, turn on a light, use the Internet, or go to work. You wouldn't have money were it not for the money of other people, through taxes or other means.

[QUOTE="xTheExploited"][QUOTE="aransom"]Let's say you need a $1000 operation, but you only have $500. Do you have the right to force me to pay the other $500?Mafiree

The health care bill doesn't nationalize the health care industry, therefore it is in no way comparable to the UK system. As far as rationing goes, we already ration care in the U.S. by ability to pay.-Sun_Tzu-

That's how life is, unfortunately. If you can't afford it, you don't get it. In the case of healthcare, it's the insurance companies who are the real evil. But putting the government in charge of the whole thing is a recipe for disaster.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]The health care bill doesn't nationalize the health care industry, therefore it is in no way comparable to the UK system. As far as rationing goes, we already ration care in the U.S. by ability to pay.airshocker

That's how life is, unfortunately. If you can't afford it, you don't get it.

Which is ridiculous, seeing as only the top percent of the population can afford healthcare without insurance (and in many cases with insurance). Is that what the Founding Fathers wanted? People given special treatment and better lives because they're richer? If so then the Founding Fathers were utterly wrong and should be discounted in that regard.

And what's the difference between that and taxes for healthcare? :| Everybody pays taxes, not just you.

You don't want your "hard-earned money" spent, yet you spend other people's money every time you flush a toilet, turn on a light, use the Internet, or go to work. You wouldn't have money were it not for the money of other people, through taxes or other means.

Theokhoth

Wait, it seems like you think I don't pay utility bills. I could understand your argument in that regard. Fortunately, I do pay utility bills. So I can flush my toilet, since I've already paid for the water. I don't know where you are coming up with the idea that I'm spending someone else's money when I have already paid the water bill. That makes absolutely no sense.

My taxes go to things I use. They shouldn't go to things I don't. Why should I pay for healthcare when I'm already on a plan? I don't owe it to anybody else in this country.

[QUOTE="SkylinePigeon"]Have you talked to the founders of our country and asked them what they think about modern issues that they would have no way of thinking about hundreds of years ago when this country was born? We don't have the founders around and don't know what they did or did not intend unless you can textually prove that to me where they talked about healthcare... otherwise, it is irresponsible arguing to claim to have the founders on your side for this argument.airshocker

It's my opinion. You don't have to agree with it. From everything I've read on the founders and the constitution, they didn't intend for socialism to take over the country.

I believe we fought a war against it in the 80s, too.

Which is ridiculous, seeing as only the top percent of the population can afford healthcare without insurance (and in many cases with insurance). Is that what the Founding Fathers wanted? People given special treatment and better lives because they're richer? If so then the Founding Fathers were utterly wrong and should be discounted in that regard.

Theokhoth

I'm pretty sure the founding fathers didn't expect me to pay for care I won't even be receiving.

I'm not saying it isn't horrible, but it's not my problem. I have insurance. I've always been covered for things I needed to get done. Why should I have to pay extra money for people who can't afford it? You aren't answering that question to me.

And you can't, because there is nothing you can say that would rationalize me being taxed for someone else's health. That's why this country was founded upon freedom.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

And what's the difference between that and taxes for healthcare? :| Everybody pays taxes, not just you.

You don't want your "hard-earned money" spent, yet you spend other people's money every time you flush a toilet, turn on a light, use the Internet, or go to work. You wouldn't have money were it not for the money of other people, through taxes or other means.

airshocker

Wait, it seems like you think I don't pay utility bills.

Do you think you could afford utility bills if you were the only one? Do you think there are no taxes for utilities? :|

I could understand your argument in that regard. Fortunately, I do pay utility bills. So I can flush my toilet, since I've already paid for the water.

You and everybody else who likes water. . .

I don't know where you are coming up with the idea that I'm spending someone else's money when I have already paid the water bill. That makes absolutely no sense.

My taxes go to things I use. They shouldn't go to things I don't. Why should I pay for healthcare when I'm already on a plan? I don't owe it to anybody else in this country.

Just like you don't owe it to anybody else for roads or electricity or cars?

Why are you just fine with taxes for the things I've mentioned, yet healthcare just terrifies you? You act like you'll pay a million dollars out of your weekly check for one or two people to get healthcare WHEN YOU WILL NOT; you will pay a couple of bucks and so will everybody else; in turn everyone will have access to healthcare and will be allowed to, you know, live if there's an acccident. Just like with roads.