Here's a question about Government, Military, justice and whats acceptable

It's no secret that this world has many problems.
I want to live in a better world, as I'm sure you do as well. So why can't we have that better world?
What is it that holds us back? If the leaders of our countries are working toward a better, peaceful world, why can't we ever seem to achieve it?

If everyone I loved was in the same building and it got blown up by someone, then I went on a vandetta and killed that murderer, do you think I'd be a hero? Would I get a medal?
Of course not. I'd be thrown in jail.
Then why should the Government and Military be any different? Why is it ok for the Military to invade other countries using the excuse that they're just fighting back/defending their country? Then they get praise for doing it. Celebrated for murdering people. And not all of them would be bad. Some would no doubt be defending their own country and family.

Doesn't sound right, does it?
There are many other things that don't sound right when you really think about it and see the bigger picture.

I would say ultimatley it's lust for power. No matter how many people agree to be equal, one will always try to gain more power than the others.

There is a double standard in life. That is all I will tell you.

There is a double standard in life. That is all I will tell you.

Reed_Bowie

[QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"]

There is a double standard in life. That is all I will tell you.

Skull-Fire

I never told you what to do or not to do. I just told you what it is.

Man?

*edit: Blast, you changed the topic title away from whats wrong with the world

I blame all those people that came up with whats "right and wrong". I hate this world. I"m all for it just ending fastesttruck

[QUOTE="fastesttruck"] I blame all those people that came up with whats "right and wrong". I hate this world. I"m all for it just ending Skull-Fire

Ok people. Just reading the topic, isn't contributing the thread at all. You end up talking about something that this thread isn't even about.

Ok people. Just reading the topic, isn't contributing the thread at all. You end up talking about something that this thread isn't even about.

Skull-Fire

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"]

Ok people. Just reading the topic, isn't contributing the thread at all. You end up talking about something that this thread isn't even about.

fastesttruck

Bossy topic creators Ace6301

Doesn't sound right, does it?

There are many other things that don't sound right when you really think about it and see the bigger picture.Skull-Fire

That's because you're talking about the difference between order and anarchy. Society cannot survive without order.

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"] Doesn't sound right, does it?

There are many other things that don't sound right when you really think about it and see the bigger picture.SilentFireX

That's because you're talking about the difference between order and anarchy. Society cannot survive without order.

It's not murder when you kill an enemy combatant as a soldier.

It's no secret that this world has many problems.
I want to live in a better world, as I'm sure you do as well. So why can't we have that better world?
What is it that holds us back? If the leaders of our countries are working toward a better, peaceful world, why can't we ever seem to achieve it?

If everyone I loved was in the same building and it got blown up by someone, then I went on a vandetta and killed that murderer, do you think I'd be a hero? Would I get a medal?
Of course not. I'd be thrown in jail.
Then why should the Government and Military be any different? Why is it ok for the Military to invade other countries using the excuse that they're just fighting back/defending their country? Then they get praise for doing it. Celebrated for murdering people. And not all of them would be bad. Some would no doubt be defending their own country and family.

Doesn't sound right, does it?
There are many other things that don't sound right when you really think about it and see the bigger picture.

Skull-Fire

If you killed that murderer you probably would be a hero...but you would be arrested because we have Rule of Law, with no man being above the law....

It's not murder when you kill an enemy combatant as a soldier.

airshocker

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"]

It's no secret that this world has many problems.
I want to live in a better world, as I'm sure you do as well. So why can't we have that better world?
What is it that holds us back? If the leaders of our countries are working toward a better, peaceful world, why can't we ever seem to achieve it?

If everyone I loved was in the same building and it got blown up by someone, then I went on a vandetta and killed that murderer, do you think I'd be a hero? Would I get a medal?
Of course not. I'd be thrown in jail.
Then why should the Government and Military be any different? Why is it ok for the Military to invade other countries using the excuse that they're just fighting back/defending their country? Then they get praise for doing it. Celebrated for murdering people. And not all of them would be bad. Some would no doubt be defending their own country and family.

Doesn't sound right, does it?
There are many other things that don't sound right when you really think about it and see the bigger picture.

SpartanMSU

If you killed that murderer you probably would be a hero...but you would be arrested because we have Rule of Law, with no man being above the law....

Yes, it is. Maybe not in the eyes of the law but you've still just killed a fellow human being. A human being that may have a wife and children. Children that must now grow up without their father. All in the name of so-called justice, because people have been made to believe it's ok, if the Government says it is.Skull-Fire

And the law is the only thing that matters. The law says it isn't murder. So it isn't.

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"]Yes, it is. Maybe not in the eyes of the law but you've still just killed a fellow human being. A human being that may have a wife and children. Children that must now grow up without their father. All in the name of so-called justice, because people have been made to believe it's ok, if the Government says it is.airshocker

And the law is the only thing that matters. The law says it isn't murder. So it isn't.

Are you actually being serious? Law is the only thing that matters... do you actually believe that? o.O What about Human rights and freedom? While there has to be Law, our rights and freedom should always come first, with the law built around them. With law being the only thing that matters, you can say bye bye to freedom of speech, or just the freedom to drive to another State whenever you want. Hell, if you want to take it even further, with law being all that matters, let's bring about Martial Law, so you can't go where you want, when you want. Even in your own city.Skull-Fire

In regards to this one subject, since I don't feel like having a whole strawman-fest, the law is the only thing that matters to me. My government says it is a-okay to kill another human being in defense of your country. That isn't murder.

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"]Yes, it is. Maybe not in the eyes of the law but you've still just killed a fellow human being. A human being that may have a wife and children. Children that must now grow up without their father. All in the name of so-called justice, because people have been made to believe it's ok, if the Government says it is.airshocker

And the law is the only thing that matters. The law says it isn't murder. So it isn't.

Lawful Neutral is a rather interesting stance to take on things...Ace6301

Sometimes.

My NWN2 characters are always Lawful evil, though.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

It's not murder when you kill an enemy combatant as a soldier.

Skull-Fire

It's not because the government says it is, it's because common sense says it is. I have no problem shooting at someone who's shooting at me. I do have a problem with killing someone who is unarmed and not a threat to myself or others. THAT is murder. Pretty simple, really.

Honestly, it seems like you're a naive teenager who doesn't see reality.

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"]

It's no secret that this world has many problems.
I want to live in a better world, as I'm sure you do as well. So why can't we have that better world?
What is it that holds us back? If the leaders of our countries are working toward a better, peaceful world, why can't we ever seem to achieve it?

If everyone I loved was in the same building and it got blown up by someone, then I went on a vandetta and killed that murderer, do you think I'd be a hero? Would I get a medal?
Of course not. I'd be thrown in jail.
Then why should the Government and Military be any different? Why is it ok for the Military to invade other countries using the excuse that they're just fighting back/defending their country? Then they get praise for doing it. Celebrated for murdering people. And not all of them would be bad. Some would no doubt be defending their own country and family.

Doesn't sound right, does it?
There are many other things that don't sound right when you really think about it and see the bigger picture.

Skull-Fire

If you killed that murderer you probably would be a hero...but you would be arrested because we have Rule of Law, with no man being above the law....

How so?

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

It's not murder when you kill an enemy combatant as a soldier.

SpartanMSU

It's not because the government says it is, it's because common sense says it is. I have no problem shooting at someone who's shooting at me. I do have a problem with killing someone who is unarmed and not a threat to myself or others. THAT is murder. Pretty simple, really.

Honestly, it seems like you're a naive teenager who doesn't see reality.

Because the state has the monopoly over power, always has since it's inception and the death of feudalism.

It's not perfect, but it's the best (current) method of government that we could come up with and still maintain stable, enforceable laws. Anarchy and disorder results from most other forms of government, although nearly every nation on the planet has adopted a state system by this point.

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"] Yes, it is. Maybe not in the eyes of the law but you've still just killed a fellow human being. A human being that may have a wife and children. Children that must now grow up without their father. All in the name of so-called justice, because people have been made to believe it's ok, if the Government says it is.Skull-Fire

It's not because the government says it is, it's because common sense says it is. I have no problem shooting at someone who's shooting at me. I do have a problem with killing someone who is unarmed and not a threat to myself or others. THAT is murder. Pretty simple, really.

Honestly, it seems like you're a naive teenager who doesn't see reality.

You said soldiers are murderers if I'm not mistaken...soooo....yeaaaah....

But you're right, I never question anything. Must be why I'm a libertarian.:lol:

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"][QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

It's not because the government says it is, it's because common sense says it is. I have no problem shooting at someone who's shooting at me. I do have a problem with killing someone who is unarmed and not a threat to myself or others. THAT is murder. Pretty simple, really.

Honestly, it seems like you're a naive teenager who doesn't see reality.

SpartanMSU

You said soldiers are murderers if I'm not mistaken...soooo....yeaaaah....

But you're right, I never question anything. Must be why I'm a libertarian.:lol:

You want a world that can't exist. This world isa product of conquest fueled by greed. We get along when it's convenient. The flaw in your logic is thinking the violence is due toconflicting customs. But there isn't a way to satisfy or appease Greed mongers,haters & psychopaths. They DON'Twant to be reasoned with, they don't want peace. They want destruction and chaos.

Why can they do what they do? Because the government makes the laws, not you. Why can they invade other countries and kill whoever they want? Who's gonna stop them? You? Hey, they convinced the country to go to war with propaganda. What should they have done? Just ignore the attack. Ifthey can't policetheir territory and we believetheyharbor criminals a task force will be visiting.

You want a world that can't exist. This world isa product of conquest fueled by greed. We get along when it's convenient. The flaw in your logic is thinking the violence is due toconflicting customs. But there isn't a way to satisfy or appease Greed mongers,haters & psychopaths. They DON'Twant to be reasoned with, they don't want peace. They want destruction and chaos.

Why can they do what they do? Because the government makes the laws, not you. Why can they invade other countries and kill whoever they want? Who's gonna stop them? You? Hey, they convinced the country to go to war with propaganda. What should they have done? Just ignore the attack. Ifthey can't policetheir territory and we believetheyharbor criminals a task force will be visiting.

MagnumPI

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"] This thread isn't about whether or not it's acceptable to kill someone in self defence. Your argument is invalid. Oh and I think about the state of the world and the people in it a lot. Not to an obsessive amount, of course. I actually question things. Ask 'why?', 'how?', what if?' I've learned to think for myself and not just accept whatever I'm being told. Evidently, you haven't learned how to do that. Which is why you can see an imaginary difference. You or someone else will probably mention how what I said about not accepting what I'm told, can be applied to everyone reading this thread. This is true. The reason I made this thread was in hopes that I'd get people thinking. Everyone would express their own opionions and hopefully learn something and start thinking and not just accepting. And no, I'm not saying what I believe is the only thing that's right. Skull-Fire

You said soldiers are murderers if I'm not mistaken...soooo....yeaaaah....

But you're right, I never question anything. Must be why I'm a libertarian.:lol:

I think you need to educate yourself on what Rule of Law actually is and why it's important. You're using the same reasoning that other poster did in the "militarization of the police" thread.

Why is it ok for the Military to invade other countries using the excuse that they're just fighting back/defending their country? Skull-Fire

[QUOTE="Skull-Fire"]Why is it ok for the Military to invade other countries using the excuse that they're just fighting back/defending their country? topsemag55

What the people want isn't always the right choice. The law doesn't make things right. The photo to me is no different than any other destroyed building. Many more multitudes died because of the reaction to 9/11 than the initial incident. Norway is going about terror the right way. Rather than showing fear they're showing more of what these kind of people hate.Ace6301

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] What the people want isn't always the right choice. The law doesn't make things right. The photo to me is no different than any other destroyed building. Many more multitudes died because of the reaction to 9/11 than the initial incident. Norway is going about terror the right way. Rather than showing fear they're showing more of what these kind of people hate.topsemag55

Sadly our idealism back then was quite the downfall. Look where said retaliation has gotten us and how much liberty and freedom in the US has fallen since then. In the end the reaction we had was more than the terrorists ever could have hoped for.Ace6301

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Sadly our idealism back then was quite the downfall. Look where said retaliation has gotten us and how much liberty and freedom in the US has fallen since then. In the end the reaction we had was more than the terrorists ever could have hoped for.topsemag55

if you stick around here you will find out anything the government does is right and just, if you ever question their motives or actions you will be flamed.

An American life is no more valuable than that of any other innocent life. The end result is America caved to terrorism and did exactly what they wanted and much, much more. Norway's showing idealism in the face of terror as well but theirs isn't violent. Mark my word it's going to be much more effective than what America did after 9/11.Ace6301

Greed is likely the primary cause of most suffering in the world at the moment. That said we as a species are in a pretty nice spot right now.Ace6301

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Greed is likely the primary cause of most suffering in the world at the moment. That said we as a species are in a pretty nice spot right now.sonicare

The invasion of Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11... it was all about oil, and tightening the reigns on American liberties in or to increase govenment control... just look at the Patiot Act... you could be arrested tomorrow, be held indefinitely without a trial, and all theyd have to say is they "suspect" you of terrorism... they don't need any evidence or any proof... but if u start putting leaders feet to the fire (what the media used to do) then people will speak out against you and say you love the terrorists or you are in Al-qaeda...

we killed thousands of innoncent Iraqi civilians since this war started, tortured innocent people in secret military prisons, and all for what?

just look at the mess that is TSA.

one thing i've noticed is that so many Americans dont care if they lose all their freedoms, as long as it makes them feel safer...

It's simple, we live in a world of finite resources. Each country does what it can to secure resources for its own people. All problems in the world usually come down to that. You also have different cultures, races, and religions throughout the world.

If everybody believed in the same everything, the world would be a much better place. Though that's not really realistic is it?