H-omosexuality is a Choice

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Euroshinobi

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#151 Euroshinobi
Member since 2009 • 3299 Posts

Yea i refuse to believe anyone who says being homosexual is a choice when there are 40 year old men out there, with a wife & kids who are homosexual but because they are scared of what society, family, friends will think of them, they rather pretend to be straight their entire lives. i know a couple 'secret' homosexuals myself.

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magnax1

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#152 magnax1
Member since 2007 • 4605 Posts

Yea i refuse to believe anyone who says being homosexual is a choice when there are 40 year old men out there, with a wife & kids who are homosexual but because they are scared of what society, family, friends will think of them, they rather pretend to be straight their entire lives. i know a couple 'secret' homosexuals myself.

Euroshinobi

Lol, maybe the bigger problem isnt that society has problems with accepting gay people, but that people care so much about what society thinks about them. Really I cant understand why people care about what other people who they dont know think about, them. If they problem with you, you shouldn't even care about them (Unless you are a serial murderer)

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Euroshinobi

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#153 Euroshinobi
Member since 2009 • 3299 Posts

[QUOTE="Euroshinobi"]

Yea i refuse to believe anyone who says being homosexual is a choice when there are 40 year old men out there, with a wife & kids who are homosexual but because they are scared of what society, family, friends will think of them, they rather pretend to be straight their entire lives. i know a couple 'secret' homosexuals myself.

magnax1

Lol, maybe the bigger problem isnt that society has problems with accepting gay people, but that people care so much about what society thinks about them. Really I cant understand why people care about what other people who they dont know think about, them. If they problem with you, you shouldn't even care about them (Unless you are a serial murderer)

I Agree, however it is a problem when someone beats you down with bats because you're homosexual Lol. the thing is the ones who are in the closet are the ones who fear change and fear what people think of them.......the ones out of the closet are more confident, and vocal about their homosexuality as witnessed in this thread lol

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magnax1

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#154 magnax1
Member since 2007 • 4605 Posts

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

[QUOTE="Euroshinobi"]

Yea i refuse to believe anyone who says being homosexual is a choice when there are 40 year old men out there, with a wife & kids who are homosexual but because they are scared of what society, family, friends will think of them, they rather pretend to be straight their entire lives. i know a couple 'secret' homosexuals myself.

Euroshinobi

Lol, maybe the bigger problem isnt that society has problems with accepting gay people, but that people care so much about what society thinks about them. Really I cant understand why people care about what other people who they dont know think about, them. If they problem with you, you shouldn't even care about them (Unless you are a serial murderer)

I Agree, however it is a problem when someone beats you down with bats because you're homosexual Lol. the thing is the ones who are in the closet are the ones who fear change and fear what people think of them.......the ones out of the closet are more confident, and vocal about their homosexuality as witnessed in this thread lol

Point taken.

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btaylor2404

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#155 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
Nothing in my life (34 years) from my own sexuality (straight), to my various homosexual friends has shown me it's a choice. It's as much as choice as it is that I'm madly attracted to women. And I'm not sure how anyone who isn't homosexual can speak for what is their minds and hearts. And every single friend I have that's g@y say they have no choice in the matter.
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KcurtorMas

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#156 KcurtorMas
Member since 2009 • 1484 Posts

I'm not saying that h-omosexuality is right or wrong, because I honestly don't care at all. To explain the point I'm trying to make though, I'm going to use a food metaphor.

A person has an option to eat either carrots or lettuce for his meal. He chooses carrots because he prefers the taste of them, but he could have eaten lettuce if he was forced to, even if he disliked the taste of lettuce.

Another person has the same option, but he chooses lettuce because he's deathly allergic to carrots. He did not have a choose in the matter because eating the carrots would have physically harmed him.

Now for how this metaphor applies to h-omosexuality. Technically any h-omosexual could have sexual relations with a member of the opposite sex, he might strongly dislike the idea of it, but he would be at no physical risk by doing so. That doesn't mean that he should be looking for women, but that technically that option isn't impossible.

H-omosexuality isn't a mandatory choice, but a strong sexual preference.

LittleHands134

I would have to agree with most, and say that this is a horrible analogy, although I understand what youre saying. You mean that EVERYBODY in the end, has a choice. OfcourseI could CHOOSE to take it up the bum, but would I want to? NO. Would it feel naturalfor me to do so? NO. So the same could be said for homosexuals. A gay man could CHOOSE to get with a woman, but would he want to? NO. Would it feel natural for him to do so? NO. So yes, everybody always has a choice about anything they do, but that isnt the point at all. It feels NATURAL for them to be attracted to the same sex, and things that you FEEL cant be changed so easilyby simplechoice. You cant just CHOOSE to feel differently about something you already feelso strongly about. With most things, I would say "Hey, its your opinion". But in this case, youre just wrong. Nice try though.

EDIT~~Oh yeah...and "mandatory choice" really makes no sense at all.

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Technikiller

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#157 Technikiller
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts
Technically any h-omosexual could have sexual relations with a member of the opposite sex, he might strongly dislike the idea of it, but he would be at no physical risk by doing so.LittleHands134
Maybe not physically, but it does mentally. I tell you why I think this but my post would probably get deleted.
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Theokhoth

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#158 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="LittleHands134"]Technically any h-omosexual could have sexual relations with a member of the opposite sex, he might strongly dislike the idea of it, but he would be at no physical risk by doing so.Technikiller
Maybe not physically, but it does mentally. I tell you why I think this but my post would probably get deleted.

Including this one, for bumping an old topic?

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Technikiller

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#159 Technikiller
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts
Including this one, for bumping an old topic?Theokhoth
It is less than one month old. With the amount of traffic this forum has, who in their right mind actually cares about something this insignificant?
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#160 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="Technikiller"][QUOTE="LittleHands134"]Technically any h-omosexual could have sexual relations with a member of the opposite sex, he might strongly dislike the idea of it, but he would be at no physical risk by doing so.Theokhoth

Maybe not physically, but it does mentally. I tell you why I think this but my post would probably get deleted.

Including this one, for bumping an old topic?

This is the secodn one in about two minutes concernign homosexuality that he's bumped.

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MuddVader

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#161 MuddVader
Member since 2007 • 6326 Posts

I'm not saying that h-omosexuality is right or wrong, because I honestly don't care at all. To explain the point I'm trying to make though, I'm going to use a food metaphor.

A person has an option to eat either carrots or lettuce for his meal. He chooses carrots because he prefers the taste of them, but he could have eaten lettuce if he was forced to, even if he disliked the taste of lettuce.

Another person has the same option, but he chooses lettuce because he's deathly allergic to carrots. He did not have a choose in the matter because eating the carrots would have physically harmed him.

Now for how this metaphor applies to h-omosexuality. Technically any h-omosexual could have sexual relations with a member of the opposite sex, he might strongly dislike the idea of it, but he would be at no physical risk by doing so. That doesn't mean that he should be looking for women, but that technically that option isn't impossible.

H-omosexuality isn't a mandatory choice, but a strong sexual preference.

LittleHands134


Okay.. Tell me, can you have sex with a guy?
Can you get turned on by a guy? is a better question.
The answer to that would most likely be "No"
Now why?
because its just not the way you work, The same goes for some gay menwith women. Some gay men have no capacity to be turned on by women, so your telling me that thats still the same thing? You can tell if you are gay or bi by what causes you to be sexualy aroused, if you can look at a man and get turned on the same way you do when you look at a woman, I'm sorry but you are Bi. If you cant get turned on by a women, but by a man, than you are gay.
Now if you cant feel anything like that when you look at a man, then you are straight.
Bisexual is merely the continuum between Gay and Straight.
My point is that if you were completely straight, you couldnt just decide you want to be sexualy attracted to a dude, because you dont work that way. Some gays are that way about women, there is no choice in the matter.

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super_mario_128

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#163 super_mario_128
Member since 2006 • 23884 Posts
That's one of the worst analogies I've ever seen. O_ozakkro
This. I don't normally facepalm while reading posts on here but that one made me come quite close. >.>
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Technikiller

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#164 Technikiller
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts
This is the secodn one in about two minutes concernign homosexuality that he's bumped.BumFluff122
Yes, because I want to talk about homosexuality, and I fail to see how desiring to have a productive discussion on a forum is in any way wrong.
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#165 Dub_c6969
Member since 2004 • 6014 Posts
No its not a choice...
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#166 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]This is the secodn one in about two minutes concernign homosexuality that he's bumped.Technikiller
Yes, because I want to talk about homosexuality, and I fail to see how desiring to have a productive discussion on a forum is in any way wrong.

then perhaps you should have started a new thread? Usually, in this forum, thread that are a few eeks old that get bumped are locked. Don't tell me why they don't fix it and make peopel incapable of posting in these old threads because it wouldn't be that hard to do but it is the truth.

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clembo1990

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#167 clembo1990
Member since 2005 • 9976 Posts
That's not what people are talking about when they talk about "choice".
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Technikiller

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#168 Technikiller
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts
then perhaps you should have started a new thread? Usually, in this forum, thread that are a few eeks old that get bumped are locked. Don't tell me why they don't fix it and make peopel incapable of posting in these old threads because it wouldn't be that hard to do but it is the truth.BumFluff122
I think that is an absolutely ridiculous thing to do and I don't see how posting in an unactive thread could even be conceived as incorrect or wrong. I appreciate your concern, but until I am consulted by a moderator and given an appropriate explanation as to why bumping threads is wrong then I'm going to continue to do it.
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Teenaged

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#169 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]then perhaps you should have started a new thread? Usually, in this forum, thread that are a few eeks old that get bumped are locked. Don't tell me why they don't fix it and make peopel incapable of posting in these old threads because it wouldn't be that hard to do but it is the truth.Technikiller
I think that is an absolutely ridiculous thing to do and I don't see how posting in an unactive thread could even be conceived as incorrect or wrong. I appreciate your concern, but until I am consulted by a moderator and given an appropriate explanation as to why bumping threads is wrong then I'm going to continue to do it.

Eh before you bump more threads and see yourself moderated, just read the Rules of the forums. They should clear it out for you.

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Theokhoth

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#170 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Technikiller"][QUOTE="BumFluff122"]then perhaps you should have started a new thread? Usually, in this forum, thread that are a few eeks old that get bumped are locked. Don't tell me why they don't fix it and make peopel incapable of posting in these old threads because it wouldn't be that hard to do but it is the truth.Teenaged

I think that is an absolutely ridiculous thing to do and I don't see how posting in an unactive thread could even be conceived as incorrect or wrong. I appreciate your concern, but until I am consulted by a moderator and given an appropriate explanation as to why bumping threads is wrong then I'm going to continue to do it.

Eh before you bump more threads and see yourself moderated, just read the Rules of the forums. They should clear it out for you.

Based on the way he complained about getting posts deleted earlier, I doubt he's unaware of the rules. >_>

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Teenaged

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#171 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Technikiller"] I think that is an absolutely ridiculous thing to do and I don't see how posting in an unactive thread could even be conceived as incorrect or wrong. I appreciate your concern, but until I am consulted by a moderator and given an appropriate explanation as to why bumping threads is wrong then I'm going to continue to do it.Theokhoth

Eh before you bump more threads and see yourself moderated, just read the Rules of the forums. They should clear it out for you.

Based on the way he complained about getting posts deleted earlier, I doubt he's unaware of the rules. >_>

He did? I hadnt seen that.

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BayAreaX

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#172 BayAreaX
Member since 2009 • 1809 Posts
i think your on to something tc...
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Dark_Knight6

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#173 Dark_Knight6
Member since 2006 • 16619 Posts

Yeah, not really. Engaging in sexual activities with someone of the same sex is a choice. Having the desire to do so, on the other hand, not so much.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#174 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

Yeah, not really. Engaging in sexual activities with someone of the same sex is a choice. Having the desire to do so, on the other hand, not so much.

Dark_Knight6
Dark Knight speaks truth
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super_mario_128

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#175 super_mario_128
Member since 2006 • 23884 Posts

Yeah, not really. Engaging in sexual activities with someone of the same sex is a choice. Having the desire to do so, on the other hand, not so much.

Dark_Knight6
Your face is a choice! :x
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-TheSecondSign-

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#176 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9303 Posts

Maybe for bisexual people, it is a choice.

But no, in most cases, it is not a choice in any shape or form. They can't pick who to be attracted to. Why should we hold it against them?

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Technikiller

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#177 Technikiller
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts

Maybe for bisexual people, it is a choice.

But no, in most cases, it is not a choice in any shape or form. They can't pick who to be attracted to. Why should we hold it against them?

-TheSecondSign-
If only the rest of the world was like you.
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Dark_Knight6

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#178 Dark_Knight6
Member since 2006 • 16619 Posts

Your face is a choice! :xsuper_mario_128

Ouch. Not cool man, not cool.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#179 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="super_mario_128"]Your face is a choice! :xDark_Knight6

Ouch. Not cool man, not cool.

It was a typo; he meant to say that your face is choice :oops:
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super_mario_128

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#180 super_mario_128
Member since 2006 • 23884 Posts
[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

Your face is a choice! :xsuper_mario_128

Ouch. Not cool man, not cool.

It was a typo; he meant to say that your face is choice :oops:

It took me a while... But goddamn! Goddamn... :lol:
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BreakTheseLinks

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#181 BreakTheseLinks
Member since 2005 • 2601 Posts

I don't think it's a choice by any means. But at the same time I don't believe people are born homosexual; it's environmental IMO. It all depends on the up brigning.

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DudeMXP

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#182 DudeMXP
Member since 2009 • 361 Posts
I agree with MuddVader, being gay or straight or bi is not a choice. It is immutable.
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#183 DudeMXP
Member since 2009 • 361 Posts

I don't think it's a choice by any means. But at the same time I don't believe people are born homosexual; it's environmental IMO. It all depends on the up brigning.

BreakTheseLinks
Nah because society tells us to be attracted to the opposite sex and what parents raise their kids to be gay
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#184 Elraptor
Member since 2004 • 30966 Posts
You're using "choice" in a far narrower sense than most people are when they discuss sexual orientation.
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#185 Dark_Knight6
Member since 2006 • 16619 Posts

It was a typo; he meant to say that your face is choice :oops:xaos

Dayum. Well, in that case, I think a sexy party would be quite fitting. :P

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#186 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 80441 Posts

Well, homosexuality isn't a word you have to censor. With that said, I just believe they don't choose to become homosexual, but they choose to stay that way.

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BreakTheseLinks

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#187 BreakTheseLinks
Member since 2005 • 2601 Posts

[QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"]

I don't think it's a choice by any means. But at the same time I don't believe people are born homosexual; it's environmental IMO. It all depends on the up brigning.

DudeMXP

Nah because society tells us to be attracted to the opposite sex and what parents raise their kids to be gay

No. What I mean is there are small instances in a persons life that can make them sway towards one or the other. Take my cousins for example: a set of identical twins raised in separate households, one turned out gay the other straight.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#188 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
You're using "choice" in a far narrower sense than most people are when they discuss sexual orientation. Elraptor
Yeah, that's why the terminology can be so tricky. If you go with something more indicative like "sexual preference", then it becoems like "Oh, like I prefer vanilla to strawberry'" Language is hard :(
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#189 Dark_Knight6
Member since 2006 • 16619 Posts

Nah because society tells us to be attracted to the opposite sex and what parents raise their kids to be gay DudeMXP

It doesn't neccasarily mean how our parents raised us but rather the things were exposed to, different events in our lives, and our reactions to both.

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DudeMXP

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#190 DudeMXP
Member since 2009 • 361 Posts
[QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"][QUOTE="DudeMXP"][QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"]

I don't think it's a choice by any means. But at the same time I don't believe people are born homosexual; it's environmental IMO. It all depends on the up brigning.

Nah because society tells us to be attracted to the opposite sex and what parents raise their kids to be gay

No. What I mean is there are small instances in a persons life that can make them sway towards one or the other. Take my cousins for example: a set of identical twins raised in seperate households, one turned out gay the other straight.

Nah it's immutable, the only ones who think or mislead that it's a choice or has to do with influences are because they don't want sexual orientation elevated to "suspect class" in the courts. If orientation is considered a choice, then gay and lesbians would not be entitled to certain legal protections is what this comes down to. The whole "it's a choice" angle is a new thing for this sole purpose but every court has agreed, it is immutable and therefore considered a suspect class of persons entitled to enhanced legal scrutiny and protections.
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Ring_of_fire

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#191 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts

I don't think it's a choice by any means. But at the same time I don't believe people are born homosexual; it's environmental IMO. It all depends on the up brigning.

BreakTheseLinks
While the upbringing may have something to do with a person being gay it's not nearly 100% why someone is gay (if it all). If the child's upbringing made the future adult gay wouldn't every sibling that child has also turn out gay because it's with the same parents and family? Granted, everyone is different. Different personalities and whatnot, but there is still a constant of having the same set of parents.
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Technikiller

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#192 Technikiller
Member since 2009 • 74 Posts
I believe that lack of a dominent male figure in a guy's life may also contribute to homosexuality, though I'm generally of the belief that we're born this way.
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#193 super_mario_128
Member since 2006 • 23884 Posts

Well, homosexuality isn't a word you have to censor. With that said, I just believe they don't choose to become homosexual, but they choose to stay that way.

JustPlainLucas
So you believe they could become straight if they wanted to? Doesn't that work both ways? I mean, you could willingly become gay for a day, and then straight the next, right?
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#194 BreakTheseLinks
Member since 2005 • 2601 Posts
[QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"][QUOTE="DudeMXP"] Nah because society tells us to be attracted to the opposite sex and what parents raise their kids to be gay DudeMXP
No. What I mean is there are small instances in a persons life that can make them sway towards one or the other. Take my cousins for example: a set of identical twins raised in seperate households, one turned out gay the other straight.

Nah it's immutable, the only ones who think or mislead that it's a choice or has to do with influences are because they don't want sexual orientation elevated to "suspect class" in the courts. If orientation is considered a choice, then gay and lesbians would not be entitled to certain legal protections is what this comes down to. The whole "it's a choice" angle is a new thing for this sole purpose but every court has agreed, it is immutable and therefore considered a suspect class of persons entitled to enhanced legal scrutiny and protections.

Uh, okay. I clearly stated that I think it isn't a choice.
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Ring_of_fire

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#195 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts

[QUOTE="DudeMXP"][QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"]

I don't think it's a choice by any means. But at the same time I don't believe people are born homosexual; it's environmental IMO. It all depends on the up brigning.

BreakTheseLinks

Nah because society tells us to be attracted to the opposite sex and what parents raise their kids to be gay

No. What I mean is there are small instances in a persons life that can make them sway towards one or the other. Take my cousins for example: a set of identical twins raised in separate households, one turned out gay the other straight.

What makes you think it would've been different if they lived in the same house?

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#196 II_Seraphim_II
Member since 2007 • 20534 Posts
By TC's logic heterosexuality is also a choice. Sure I could technically sleep with another guy, but I would rather not, which is why its called sexual PREFERENCE. Its not a choice to PREFER a certain sex, but that doesnt mean we will blow up if we sleep with the sex we arent attracted to.
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BreakTheseLinks

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#197 BreakTheseLinks
Member since 2005 • 2601 Posts

[QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"]

I don't think it's a choice by any means. But at the same time I don't believe people are born homosexual; it's environmental IMO. It all depends on the up brigning.

Ring_of_fire

While the upbringing may have something to do with a person being gay it's not nearly 100% why someone is gay (if it all). If the child's upbringing made the future adult gay wouldn't every sibling that child has also turn out gay because it's with the same parents and family? Granted, everyone is different. Different personalities and whatnot, but there is still a constant of having the same set of parents.



But every child is treated differently weather parents think otherwise or not. No person has the same exact childhood as another.

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DudeMXP

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#198 DudeMXP
Member since 2009 • 361 Posts
[QUOTE="super_mario_128"][QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]

Well, homosexuality isn't a word you have to censor. With that said, I just believe they don't choose to become homosexual, but they choose to stay that way.

So you believe they could become straight if they wanted to? Doesn't that work both ways? I mean, you could willingly become gay for a day, and then straight the next, right?

Most people don't care, the whole reason behind sexuality being a choice is simply for the legal purpose of protection. An immutable trait is legally entitled to higher protection, for example your gender and race. That's why we have laws protecting women, and against racism because you can't simply change these factors. If sexuality is considered a choice, then gays and lesbians lose all legal protections such as marriage equality, employment protection because the argument would be that they chose to be gay or lesbian and can therefore become straight and enjoy full legal benefits. If it's considerd immutable, then the courts have an obligation to treat the class of persons with high scrutiny to ensure full and fair justice under the law. That means a host of laws to protect them such as the Hate Crimes Bill and ENDA which is the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which would prevent gays and lesbians from being fired simply because of their orientation.
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#199 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

But every child is treated differently weather parents think otherwise or not. No person has the same exact childhood as another.

BreakTheseLinks
Then it is purely a matter of faith, if it is something that can't be verified empirically :\
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#200 BreakTheseLinks
Member since 2005 • 2601 Posts

[QUOTE="BreakTheseLinks"]

[QUOTE="DudeMXP"] Nah because society tells us to be attracted to the opposite sex and what parents raise their kids to be gay Ring_of_fire

No. What I mean is there are small instances in a persons life that can make them sway towards one or the other. Take my cousins for example: a set of identical twins raised in separate households, one turned out gay the other straight.

What makes you think it would've been different if they lived in the same house?

I have no idea to be honest :p Maybe they would have had much more similar childhood experiences? Who knows... It just seems foolish to rule out environmental influences all together.