Honoring our Men and Women in Uniform ... Why?

they fight for the greater good!

We love our freedom? While we may still be better off than other countries(especially third world) I would hardly say we are the land of the free anymore.Mephers

[QUOTE="Mephers"]We love our freedom? While we may still be better off than other countries(especially third world) I would hardly say we are the land of the free anymore.legend26

The point isn't what they are doing or how hard the training was, its what they are willing to do. i think you should respect that they signed up for a job that asks them to do the things they do.bebop013

[QUOTE="legend26"]

[QUOTE="Mephers"]We love our freedom? While we may still be better off than other countries(especially third world) I would hardly say we are the land of the free anymore.Mephers

Putting on a uniform is a way of life. They agreed to serve as the defense to a country, something not many people want todo. When many soldiers get back home, they feel out of place and isolated because they have been so far removed from society.

These men and women deserve our respect because we owe them our lives, no matter what their intentions for joining maybe.

[QUOTE="Mephers"][QUOTE="legend26"]considering that you have the right to say that and not get thrown in jail for it, i still think we are the land of the free

legend26

The way I see it there are two types of people who join the military: Those who can do/be anything they want and still choose to join the military, and those high school drop out idiots who never payed attention in class and only join because they can't get into college or do anything else with their lives. Personally, I only have respect for the first group.Tauruslink

Last I heard they require a highschool diploma or a GED w/ college credits now.

I see no reason to honor the people that give their lives to corporate wars.

MasterC5

I thought this would be about how the troops fighting in the Middle East came back empty handed and everyone acted like the war was won.

[QUOTE="PhotinusPyralis"]I agree. Most people that join the army do it because there isn't much else that they are able to do. They are paid for a relatively simple job. The hardest part is the training.legend26

According to this random article I found in google, 955,609 of the total Active Duty/Reserve/National Guard forces have deployed to Iraq or Afghanistanfrom 11 December 2001, to 31 October 2004.

According to this, I'm guessing about 1500 soldiers died by December of 2004.

This means that there is about a 0.15% chance of dying each year of combat.

According to this statistics site, there are 803.6 deaths per 100,000 population in the USA

This means that you have a 0.80% chance of dying each year of not being in combat.

Therefore, people who sit on their couch eating fast food are braver than soldiers.

[QUOTE="Tauruslink"]The way I see it there are two types of people who join the military: Those who can do/be anything they want and still choose to join the military, and those high school drop out idiots who never payed attention in class and only join because they can't get into college or do anything else with their lives. Personally, I only have respect for the first group.UnknownSniper65

Last I heard they require a highschool diploma or a GED w/ college credits now.

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

[QUOTE="Tauruslink"]The way I see it there are two types of people who join the military: Those who can do/be anything they want and still choose to join the military, and those high school drop out idiots who never payed attention in class and only join because they can't get into college or do anything else with their lives. Personally, I only have respect for the first group.Tauruslink

Last I heard they require a highschool diploma or a GED w/ college credits now.

I know exactly the type of people you're talking about anyway.

[QUOTE="legend26"]

I agree. Most people that join the army do it because there isn't much else that they are able to do. They are paid for a relatively simple job. The hardest part is the training.PhotinusPyralis

According to this random article I found in google, 955,609 of the total Active Duty/Reserve/National Guard forces have deployed to Iraq or Afghanistanfrom 11 December 2001, to 31 October 2004.

According to this, I'm guessing about 1500 soldiers died by December of 2004.

This means that there is about a 0.15% chance of dying each year of combat.

According to this statistics site, there are 803.6 deaths per 100,000 population in the USA

This means that you have a 0.80% chance of dying each year of not being in combat.

Therefore, people who sit on their couch eating fast food are braver than soldiers.

I think anyone in any profession should be respected/honoured if they work hard._BlueDuck_

You can disrespect us all you want. Just be prepared for everyone thinking you're a crummy human being.

We don't do it so people can fawn all over us. I used to get embarrassed every time someone offered to buy me a drink, or a meal. I joined to fight the enemy, for the money, for the college, and for the experience it gave me to pursue my goal of becoming a police officer.

You're free to hate us all you want, just know that the only reason you can is because generations of servicemen were there to protect this country and your freedoms.

The thread title may be a little misleading - let me explain.

I am a senior attending a university, and at the beginning of the Fall semester in class, each student introduced themselves. One student stated he joined the army because he would have been unable to afford his education without their support. Our professor then praised the student, thanking him for his service, and talked to the class about how we need to honor our men and women in uniform.

Now, of course if a person is involved with combat operations or sent to war, then that is honorable and the person deserves respect, but I do not see why everyone else deserves so much credit. As an example, the Army accepts nearly everyone, the basic training is not overly long or difficult, and the dropout rate is as low as 12%, which is obscene compared to the dropout rate for college students, which is as high as 50%.

Why does the country and media label our men and women in uniform as heroes, even if they have never seen combat, while apparently ignoring college graduates who worked for years to, as example, provide important services through law enforcement or the medical field?

Turtlecream

This is a complicated question. I would theorize an answer, that it's part of our culture. There has generallybeen a great respect for military personnel, going back to the c|assical world.

Now, some people might argue that...

A culture of honor and praise for military folk boosts recruitment.Sajo7

Military persons are quite underpaid. Military salaries aren't subject to normal laws of supply and demand, because once you join the military, you can't just quit. To actually get people to deploy, follow orders, and put themselves in dangerous situations, you'd have to pay them quite a bit of money, like what persons in the private military make. So in that sense, if you create a intangible reward for service, "honor" or whatever, then you can convince people to join, and serve for less money. I don't think that any of this is planned. I think it's simply a result of the high esteem in which our society holds military personnel.

More comments...

Why does the country and media label our men and women in uniform as heroes...

Turtlecream

You know, when someone is a "hero" for signing up as a fuel specialist in the Reserves, then getting money for college... What do you call that guy who just won the Medal of Honor?

I agree. Most people that join the army do it because there isn't much else that they are able to do. They are paid for a relatively simple job. The hardest part is the training.

PhotinusPyralis

Source?

The way I see it there are two types of people who join the military: Those who can do/be anything they want and still choose to join the military, and those high school drop out idiots who never payed attention in ****and only join because they can't get into college or do anything else with their lives. Personally, I only have respect for the first group.Tauruslink

Source? Seriously, you've got an organization of over a million individuals, and you think there are only two kinds of people in it? Just two? Not three or four?

But at the same time I know a lot of people in the armed forces that are complete jerks. I don't feel any need to respect them, regardless of profession. I've met plenty of bratty, irresponsible servicemen who have an unwarranted sense of entitlement. I respect their work, but a jerk is a jerk and they get no respect from me on any personal level.

_BlueDuck_

Yeah, guys with a sense of entitlement because they just graduated Basic get on my nerves.

According to this random article I found in google, 955,609 of the total Active Duty/Reserve/National Guard forces have deployed to Iraq or Afghanistanfrom 11 December 2001, to 31 October 2004.

According to this, I'm guessing about 1500 soldiers died by December of 2004.

This means that there is about a 0.15% chance of dying each year of combat.

According to this statistics site, there are 803.6 deaths per 100,000 population in the USA

This means that you have a 0.80% chance of dying each year of not being in combat.

Therefore, people who sit on their couch eating fast food are braver than soldiers.

PhotinusPyralis

Does it occur to you that a lot of people who die in the US die of old age? That might scew your statistics a little. I applaud you for actually looking some things up, instead of talking out your ass like so many people like to do, however I think your methods could use some improvement. Try to find statistics for dangerous jobs (loggers, miners, something like that), and see how many people die annually in those jobs. Then compare that to the military.

It's not about how hard it is. It's about the sacrifice. Those people have voluntarily put themselves into a situation they have no control over. They accept that they could be sent anywhere in the world at any time; they accept that they could be separated from their families at any time; they accept that they could be deployed to risk their lives in combat at any time. They make this sacrifice so that you and I don't have to, and that's worthy of very high praise.

I honor our men and women in uniform because they protect our freedom. Without our military, we would not be a free country. They lay down their lives for us. True, not everyone sees combat, but the noncombatant units have an important role, too-- without them, the combat units would be without vital communications, supplies, intelligence, etc.

In addition, I honor public service members such as police officers, firefighters, paramedics, doctors, and nurses-- it would be chaos without them.

Because few people actually make it through the grueling training. The military separates the men from the boys and women from the girls-not everyone is fit for the tasks that await ahead of them.

The thread title may be a little misleading - let me explain.

I am a senior attending a university, and at the beginning of the Fall semester in class, each student introduced themselves. One student stated he joined the army because he would have been unable to afford his education without their support. Our professor then praised the student, thanking him for his service, and talked to the class about how we need to honor our men and women in uniform.

Now, of course if a person is involved with combat operations or sent to war, then that is honorable and the person deserves respect, but I do not see why everyone else deserves so much credit. As an example, the Army accepts nearly everyone, the basic training is not overly long or difficult, and the dropout rate is as low as 12%, which is obscene compared to the dropout rate for college students, which is as high as 50%.

Why does the country and media label our men and women in uniform as heroes, even if they have never seen combat, while apparently ignoring college graduates who worked for years to, as example, provide important services through law enforcement or the medical field?

Turtlecream

Because nobody deserves a cookie for studying. Nobody shoots at you while you study. The only reason many of these men and woman haven't seen combat is because Vietnam was the last serious conflict the U.S was involved in.

Everyone who Joins the Army is a Rifleman first and foremost. Is a college studenta rifleman first and foremost? Did you agree to take arms and participate in battle when battle calls? That's why they are honored. When a battle comes to the university the students hide under the desks.

Back to what I said of the lack of battle. My father was in aircraft maintenance duringvietnam. He did electronics, mechanics and armament systems. He was also an aircract systems as well asaircraft weapons systems instructor. Guess where he spent many of his duty hours. On a Huey slick as a 60 door gunner with Spec Ops forces patrolling the mountain sides for A.A emplacements and snipers. If not that they were inserting and extracting Spec Ops forces or rescuing crews from downed aircrafts. Not stranded, crews that were shot down and under fire in a hot area.

So lack of battle keeps the other soldiers out of battle.

The thread title may be a little misleading - let me explain.

I am a senior attending a university, and at the beginning of the Fall semester in class, each student introduced themselves. One student stated he joined the army because he would have been unable to afford his education without their support. Our professor then praised the student, thanking him for his service, and talked to the class about how we need to honor our men and women in uniform.

Now, of course if a person is involved with combat operations or sent to war, then that is honorable and the person deserves respect, but I do not see why everyone else deserves so much credit. As an example, the Army accepts nearly everyone, the basic training is not overly long or difficult, and the dropout rate is as low as 12%, which is obscene compared to the dropout rate for college students, which is as high as 50%.

Why does the country and media label our men and women in uniform as heroes, even if they have never seen combat, while apparently ignoring college graduates who worked for years to, as example, provide important services through law enforcement or the medical field?

probably because the media makes the army look like saviors. Oh, they're protecting our freedom by going to another country to get oil !!! god bless them!!! pygmahia5

You should honor all men and women in uniform. Including police fireas well as allother government workers that do dangerous jobs for you and your contry. You should respect your team because your team is the ONLY team that will protect you.

Personally, these claims about fighting for "freedom(s)" intrigue me.

I fail to see how invading foreign, non-aggressive nations is in any way defending your freedom(s). I could understand if these soldiers were being honoured for actually defending your country from direct attack (say, on home soil), but as the aggressors, there's little room for me to show respect.

That's just my opinion though.

You're missing the point TC. Just simply joining the Armed Forces puts you in harms way, even if you never actually see combat. It's the willingness to fight for your country that deserves honor. While college graduates do deserve honor as well, they don't risk any physical harm to themselves simply by registering for classes.

It's stupidly hard to finish, more mental training really. In basic training, you will see so many fully grown men that think they are warriors, cry and quit.

Personally, these claims about fighting for "freedom(s)" intrigue me.

I fail to see how invading foreign, non-aggressive nations is in any way defending your freedom(s). I could understand if these soldiers were being honoured for actually defending your country from direct attack (say, on home soil), but as the aggressors, there's little room for me to show respect.

That's just my opinion though.

raynimrod

You don't choose your deployments nor missions. Regime doesn't work that way.

It's stupidly hard to finish, more mental training really. In basic training, you will see so many fully grown men that think they are warriors, cry and quit.

The_Gaming_Baby

In basic? The Army should GO back to the way it was. NO quiting. They use to just recycle trainees who couldn't man up. And keep recycling them until they passed. After so many recycles they did boot them because they weren't solvable. That was the incentive toNOT fail. Either succeed or be branded aloser.

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

Personally, these claims about fighting for "freedom(s)" intrigue me.

I fail to see how invading foreign, non-aggressive nations is in any way defending your freedom(s). I could understand if these soldiers were being honoured for actually defending your country from direct attack (say, on home soil), but as the aggressors, there's little room for me to show respect.

That's just my opinion though.

MagnumPI

You don't choose your deployments nor missions. Regime doesn't work that way.

Perhaps, but willingly joining the military to be deployed overseas on non-defensive missions is a choice.

[QUOTE="MagnumPI"]

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

Personally, these claims about fighting for "freedom(s)" intrigue me.

I fail to see how invading foreign, non-aggressive nations is in any way defending your freedom(s). I could understand if these soldiers were being honoured for actually defending your country from direct attack (say, on home soil), but as the aggressors, there's little room for me to show respect.

That's just my opinion though.

raynimrod

You don't choose your deployments nor missions. Regime doesn't work that way.

Perhaps, but willingly joining the military to be deployed overseas on non-defensive missions is a choice.

People don't join the military to fight. It's a career or an opportunity.

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

Perhaps, but willingly joining the military to be deployed overseas on non-defensive missions is a choice.

MagnumPI

People don't join the military to fight. It's a career or an opportunity.

So, why should we honour them then?

[QUOTE="MagnumPI"]

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

Perhaps, but willingly joining the military to be deployed overseas on non-defensive missions is a choice.

raynimrod

People don't join the military to fight. It's a career or an opportunity.

So, why should we honour them then?

You either know why you should or you don't. I can't answerit for you. But I'll tell you this... I would never risk my life to protect or rescue you. People go out of their way to rescue and protect people everyday. Many of them are killed doing so yet you can't honor them. You can't honor the fact that there are men & woman who go beyond their obligations to keep people safe. It's not their job, it's their creed. They believe the lives of strangers are worth saving.

Stand-up comedian Mike Birbiglia had a pretty good line about this..."I love the troops...because if they weren't the troops, I would be the troops".

[QUOTE="legend26"]

[QUOTE="PhotinusPyralis"]I agree. Most people that join the army do it because there isn't much else that they are able to do. They are paid for a relatively simple job. The hardest part is the training.PhotinusPyralis

According to this random article I found in google, 955,609 of the total Active Duty/Reserve/National Guard forces have deployed to Iraq or Afghanistanfrom 11 December 2001, to 31 October 2004.

According to this, I'm guessing about 1500 soldiers died by December of 2004.

This means that there is about a 0.15% chance of dying each year of combat.

According to this statistics site, there are 803.6 deaths per 100,000 population in the USA

This means that you have a 0.80% chance of dying each year of not being in combat.

Therefore, people who sit on their couch eating fast food are braver than soldiers.

TC would you join the army?

I know I wouldn't

TC would you join the army?

I know I wouldn't

Cruse34

What's wrong? You don't dig the thrill of the hunt? :P

I for one feel the term "hero" is over used. If I signed up to save a life I fail to see how I'm a hero for doing my job. fastesttruck

Heros never tried to be heros. They just became heros because they were either too brave or suicidal to run. It's not a soldier's job to save lives. It's his or her job to complete the objectives they are given. Many have and still go above and beyond their obligations. That's what makes them heros.

Nobody has to be infantry or a combat medic.They do what they do because of who they are, not because it's their job.No amount of G.I pay can compensate them for whatthey do.

Many think of them as heros simply because when the**** hits the fan they will be there. All of them if necessary. And they would do it for you, not the pay. If they were mercenariesthey wouldn't be in the service to begin with, because the pay isn't that great.

Don't be bitter simply because they are capable of doing something you could never do. A hero will walk into a fire fight. They will be bait, they will be a decoy and they will even be human shield if necessary. It has NOTHING to do with it being their job. They are not obligated to do any of these things.

A coward will just run and hide leaving everyone else to die.

They're signed up for a job that could kill them, that makes them heroes IMO. So does any other job (police, firefighter) that is dangerous like that, it makes those people heroes.XilePrincess

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

[QUOTE="MagnumPI"]

People don't join the military to fight. It's a career or an opportunity.

MagnumPI

So, why should we honour them then?

You either know why you should or you don't. I can't answerit for you. But I'll tell you this... I would never risk my life to protect or rescue you. People go out of their way to rescue and protect people everyday. Many of them are killed doing so yet you can't honor them. You can't honor the fact that there are men & woman who go beyond their obligations to keep people safe. It's not their job, it's their creed. They believe the lives of strangers are worth saving.

That's honour right there.

I never said I don't or can't honour people that rescue, or risk their lives for me or other people - that's just ridiculous.

You've taken some questions and concerns I made about something specific, and generalised the hell out of it. I don't know how we went from talking specifically about soldiers, to you claiming I can't honour anybody that goes out of their way to do things for other people.

Well played, good sir.

Because few people actually make it through the grueling training. The military separates the men from the boys and women from the girls-not everyone is fit for the tasks that await ahead of them.

Desulated

I don't think this is correct. I think most people who sign up make it through Basic. It's the more advanced schools (i.e., Ranger) that kick a lot of people out.

I fail to see how invading foreign, non-aggressive nations is in any way defending your freedom(s).

raynimrod

How would you have dealt with al Qaeda?

While you answer that, consider the concept of a deterrent. The existence of any military in a country discourages other countries from coming in and taking stuff. I had an argument a while back, were a guy claimed that he could accept a low standard of living ("bread and water"), so he didn't care if a foreign power conquered the US. Perhaps you feel differently?

I for one feel the term "hero" is over used. If I signed up to save a life I fail to see how I'm a hero for doing my job. fastesttruck

I agree. I think the term "hero" should be reserved for exceptional individuals.

[QUOTE="MagnumPI"]

[QUOTE="raynimrod"]

So, why should we honour them then?

raynimrod

You either know why you should or you don't. I can't answerit for you. But I'll tell you this... I would never risk my life to protect or rescue you. People go out of their way to rescue and protect people everyday. Many of them are killed doing so yet you can't honor them. You can't honor the fact that there are men & woman who go beyond their obligations to keep people safe. It's not their job, it's their creed. They believe the lives of strangers are worth saving.

That's honour right there.

I never said I don't or can't honour people that rescue, or risk their lives for me or other people - that's just ridiculous.

You've taken some questions and concerns I made about something specific, and generalised the hell out of it. I don't know how we went from talking specifically about soldiers, to you claiming I can't honour anybody that goes out of their way to do things for other people.

Well played, good sir.

When you treat a person like an expendableservant they don't really care what happens to you. They don't want to risk theirlife for someone whowon't appreciate it.

You don't have to respect all of them individually because some of them are jerks, but you pay respect to the men and woman in uniform because you pay respect to the uniform and everyone who has died wearing it. They represent the UNI FORM, the menand woman that come in (A) single form. When you disrespect one ofthem you disrespect all of them.

It goes back toTC's question. Why should we honor soldiers butcollege students are not honored? Schooling only effects the individual. The people who jointhe military have theballs to join the military knowing they could be thrown into battle. That's why they are honored. For serving their country and fellow citizens.