House rejects financial bailout bill.

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

depressing the value of everyone's homes...

Jandurin

how will you be paying for that home? plan on getting a mortgage?

gl to you then :) just hope you time the bottom.. it'd suck owing more on your mortgage than your home is even worth.

And I am going to have a bake sell to raise money for my Buy Jandurin a House collection. So far I have collected 79,321 dollars.

dave123321

[QUOTE="dave123321"]

And I am going to have a bake sell to raise money for my Buy Jandurin a House collection. So far I have collected 79,321 dollars.

Engrish_Major

Wow, they do that here? I had no idea...

And after that , I will buy you an island or a space shuttle.

gl to you then :) just hope you time the bottom.. it'd suck owing more on your mortgage than your home is even worth.

comp_atkins

The do-nothing Congress continues to keep its good name...Jocubus

Just because they reject a bill doesn't mean that they do nothing. I'd rather have that than have them be pushovers about everything coming from the White House.

[QUOTE="Rip870"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]when people who have studied this stuff for their entire lives tell you it'll be a disaster if this doesn't pass, its best to listen.... sadly politicians are more interested in keeping their jobs.comp_atkins

ok so we'll do nothing. banks will fail all over due to bad mortgage debt they've taken on ( to their fault of course ).. banks that manage not to fail will stop lending to protect their own balance sheets. small businesses will not be able to take out loans to expand, pay bills, pay employees etc.. so they have to lay people off. people can't get loans to buy cars.. so automakers have to lay people off. home buyers can not get loans to buy a home. so the surplus of unsold homes continues to grow, depressing the value of everyone's homes... when banks stop lending money it f's everyone. not just "those wall street fat cats"

But the whole problem is that you have consumed for money you dont have. All this growth that usa have had the last 6 years is fake. And thats why you see bank go into bankrupsy.The only thing the bill will do is destroy your dollar becuase you dont have 700 billion dollar to begin with. You cant save a economy that are build on money that doesent exist.

Damn you, House! xaos

That what I first thought of when I saw the title.

HOORAY !!!! The US avoids socialism for at least a little while longer. Words cannot express my disgust at the thought of bailing out anyone with my tax dollars. Especially wall street bankers and stupid people that bought more house than they could afford.

I am a guy who plays by the rules, pays my taxes and my bills without a single dollar in help from any government agency, who has never taken unemployment checks, even when I was unemployed. All I ask is that my fellow citizens do the same.

collegeboy64

[QUOTE="collegeboy64"]

HOORAY !!!! The US avoids socialism for at least a little while longer. Words cannot express my disgust at the thought of bailing out anyone with my tax dollars. Especially wall street bankers and stupid people that bought more house than they could afford.

I am a guy who plays by the rules, pays my taxes and my bills without a single dollar in help from any government agency, who has never taken unemployment checks, even when I was unemployed. All I ask is that my fellow citizens do the same.

Jocubus

[QUOTE="Jocubus"]The do-nothing Congress continues to keep its good name...Engrish_Major

Just because they reject a bill doesn't mean that they do nothing. I'd rather have that than have them be pushovers about everything coming from the White House.

It will pass,

If you pay attention to those from bothsides who voted against it, they are also the ones up for re-election in November. This gives folks from both sides of the party the oppertunity to stomp their feet in opposition, and then use the huge drop in the markets as a way to come back tonight and say "It was for the good of the nation"

Congress knows it needs to pass, and perhaps some of these banks will start foreclosing hard and a series of homes to prove their point if needed at the end of the day the bill will pass by a small margin.

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

gl to you then :) just hope you time the bottom.. it'd suck owing more on your mortgage than your home is even worth.

Jandurin

that's another thing. you'll likely need a sizeable down payment to qualify for a loan. 10-20% is expected.

Good. Unless the government would like us to weave straw into gold and give our newborns to trolls, this bill would have us spending money we don't have. A bad thing, last I checked. Theokhoth

[QUOTE="collegeboy64"]

HOORAY !!!! The US avoids socialism for at least a little while longer. Words cannot express my disgust at the thought of bailing out anyone with my tax dollars. Especially wall street bankers and stupid people that bought more house than they could afford.

I am a guy who plays by the rules, pays my taxes and my bills without a single dollar in help from any government agency, who has never taken unemployment checks, even when I was unemployed. All I ask is that my fellow citizens do the same.

Jocubus

I agree, what far to many people are too busy stomping their feet to realize is that this package stands to benefit the US Government in a huge way in the next few years.

The reality is this "bail out" is not a dump truck of money and best wishes to big banks, the money buys debt that is tied to assets (IE Homes) that the Federal government will be buying at 50 cents on the dollar of an already reduced value.

If they hold those assets and slowly start selling them back as the industry rights itself over the next few years they can easily land 60 to 65 cents on the dollar thus turning around a huge profit in a fairly short period of time,

Especially ones that have an adjustable morgage rate and knowing that if it goes up people are screwed. xscrapzx

that's another thing. you'll likely need a sizeable down payment to qualify for a loan. 10-20% is expected.

comp_atkins

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

gl to you then :) just hope you time the bottom.. it'd suck owing more on your mortgage than your home is even worth.

comp_atkins

that's another thing. you'll likely need a sizeable down payment to qualify for a loan. 10-20% is expected.

Anybody not paying atleast 20 percent down is foolish.

This is not a typical recession.

The housing market is bankrupt. Oil Prices are still inflated (with Winter coming up BTW). Consumer spending is WAY down and this Christmas might be the worst ever in retail. We're still stuck in a war in two countries. Investment banks are obsolete. Food prices are inflated. The US dollar is extremely weak. The government is about to print $700 billion in new bills.

This is big time trouble.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]Especially ones that have an adjustable morgage rate and knowing that if it goes up people are screwed. Jandurin

Yes when Interest rates go up that means the interest you own on your mortgage goes up as well.

Good. Unless the government would like us to weave straw into gold and give our newborns to trolls, this bill would have us spending money we don't have. A bad thing, last I checked. Theokhoth

the cost to the tax payers now is potentially much less then the cost later if we simply allow the markets to sort themselves out. when people are unemployed who pays their unemployment? when poor people are pushed further into poverty and need public assistance, who pays for that? when a bank collapses and all the fdic insured deposits have to be covered who do you think pays for that?

Anybody not paying atleast 20 percent down is foolish.

xscrapzx

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"]Especially ones that have an adjustable morgage rate and knowing that if it goes up people are screwed. xscrapzx

Yes when Interest rates go up that means the interest you own on your mortgage goes up as well.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

Anybody not paying atleast 20 percent down is foolish.

Jandurin

Have they posted the document online yet? I'd like to skim through it to see some of the nitty-gritty.cametall

They did, but I forget the site. Speaker.gov or something to that effect.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

Anybody not paying atleast 20 percent down is foolish.

loco145

My God...look at the stock market...Dow down 650 points (5.8%) NASDAQ down 166 (7.6%) S&P 500 down 90 (7.44%). This is the biggest one day drop I ever remember seeing...

Looks like some people who were planning to retire are going to have to work a couple more years...

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

Anybody not paying atleast 20 percent down is foolish.

Jandurin

thats part of the problem.. few people can actually afford 20% on a home that isn't a toolshack in a crap neighborhood. so they take out riskier mortgages with adjustable rates that they cannot later afford which get packaged and sold by banks and end up poisoning the system.

I would suggest that you that live in usa check out peter schiff on youtube he has predicted this crash since 2002. He even wrote a book about how you can make money on this crisis. Its funny a couple of years ago they calld him doctor doom and crazy. But now they have him on every news room when they talk about the economy.

This is not a typical recession.

The housing market is bankrupt. Oil Prices are still inflated (with Winter coming up BTW). Consumer spending is WAY down and this Christmas might be the worst ever in retail. We're still stuck in a war in two countries. Investment banks are obsolete. Food prices are inflated. The US dollar is extremely weak. The government is about to print $700 billion in new bills.

This is big time trouble.

Netherscourge

I see what you are saying,

But I disagree. Based on a few of the supply/demand analysis that has been published it seems the cost of oil is more market inflated then it is demand inflated (IE commodities trading), coupled with the fact that it is traded in US dollars and as you noted the US dollar had been weak. Supply has increased over demand when you compare year to year 2007 to 2008 and the cost of oil has fallen to sub $100 a barrel in trading today, some economists who had predicted a 100 barrel of oil by christmas are no speculating we could find oil around 70-80 nearly half of its 2008 high.

The housing market in some areas are very hard hit, but its not as widespread as many would seem to think. While the market as a whole has decreased the biggest and hardest hit areas are normally homes in blue collar working class areas, and the "second" or "vacation" home markets. Once you pull those out of the equation you certainly have a decrease in homes pricing but the reality is you have had a real estate market that has done nothing but climb for 18 years, sooner or later it was going to have to level out.

The US dollar has seen much improvment over earlier in the year when compared to the Canadian Dollar, Euro, and Japanese Yen and its hardly at its "low" at this point even with the market situation.

The concept that the "Investment Bank is Obsolete" is also one I disagree with, we have seen banks who managed their assets buying up their competitors for weeks now, its fairly clear that there is strength in the sector otherwise no one would be going near some of these assets rather then diving in and grabbing them at the first oppertunity.

From a broad picture it seems a lot worse then it actually is, and historically I don't see this being much worse (in a worst case) then the economic slowdown the US economy saw in the late 1980's, it was simply targeted in different economic sectors.

I would suggest that you that live in usa check out peter schiff on youtube he has predicted this crash since 2002. He even wrote a book about how you can make money on this crisis. Its funny a couple of years ago they calld him doctor doom and crazy. But know they have him on every news room when they talk about the economy.

Rip870

I thought McCain suspended his campaign so he could energize his Republicans and get the bill pass? He even had speeches this pass weekend saying it was getting done. Woopsie.

[QUOTE="Jocubus"][QUOTE="collegeboy64"]

HOORAY !!!! The US avoids socialism for at least a little while longer. Words cannot express my disgust at the thought of bailing out anyone with my tax dollars. Especially wall street bankers and stupid people that bought more house than they could afford.

I am a guy who plays by the rules, pays my taxes and my bills without a single dollar in help from any government agency, who has never taken unemployment checks, even when I was unemployed. All I ask is that my fellow citizens do the same.

xaos

What is shortsighted is believing that the idiots in congress and the executive will craft a solution to problems they had a part in creating. The govt passed a law called the Fair Housing Act that pretty much forced banks to make home loans to people that traditionally would not have qualified BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GIVE REASONABLE ASSURANCE THEY WOULD PAY IT BACK. The govt used Fannie and Freddie as the vehicles to accomplish their social engineering goals. Four years ago the regulators in charge of keeping an eye on Fannie and Freddie raised the red flag that problems were coming and who turned a dear ear, in fact, in some cases attacked the regulator? You got it, democrats in congress. Barnie Frank, Maxine Waters, Chuck Shumer and on and on. All are on the record four years ago basically saying "problem? what problem". Now we're going to let these same people "solve" the problem?

Seems like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.

Heres a solution for you. Eliminate the capital gains tax and reduce the corporate income tax rate to 5%. Do these two things and you will see such a flood of capital in to the market it will blow your mind. Profits held by US corporations overseas, to avoid the current 30+ % confiscatory corp income tax rate, will also come home.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="Jocubus"][QUOTE="collegeboy64"]

HOORAY !!!! The US avoids socialism for at least a little while longer. Words cannot express my disgust at the thought of bailing out anyone with my tax dollars. Especially wall street bankers and stupid people that bought more house than they could afford.

I am a guy who plays by the rules, pays my taxes and my bills without a single dollar in help from any government agency, who has never taken unemployment checks, even when I was unemployed. All I ask is that my fellow citizens do the same.

collegeboy64

What is shortsighted is believing that the idiots in congress and the executive will craft a solution to problems they had a part in creating. The govt passed a law called the Fair Housing Act that pretty much forced banks to make home loans to people that traditionally would not have qualified BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GIVE REASONABLE ASSURANCE THEY WOULD PAY IT BACK. The govt used Fannie and Freddie as the vehicles to accomplish their social engineering goals. Four years ago the regulators in charge of keeping an eye on Fannie and Freddie raised the red flag that problems were coming and who turned a dear ear, in fact, in some cases attacked the regulator? You got it, democrats in congress. Barnie Frank, Maxine Waters, Chuck Shumer and on and on. All are on the record four years ago basically saying "problem? what problem". Now we're going to let these same people "solve" the problem?

Seems like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.

Heres a solution for you. Eliminate the capital gains tax and reduce the corporate income tax rate to 5%. Do these two things and you will see such a flood of capital in to the market it will blow your mind. Profits held by US corporations overseas, to avoid the current 30+ % confiscatory corp income tax rate, will also come home.

[QUOTE="Rip870"]

I would suggest that you that live in usa check out peter schiff on youtube he has predicted this crash since 2002. He even wrote a book about how you can make money on this crisis. Its funny a couple of years ago they calld him doctor doom and crazy. But know they have him on every news room when they talk about the economy.

Jocubus

Well you should take a look at it he hasent just predicted he have also said exactly how it will happende.And guess what he have been right on evrything.

[QUOTE="Jocubus"][QUOTE="collegeboy64"]

HOORAY !!!! The US avoids socialism for at least a little while longer. Words cannot express my disgust at the thought of bailing out anyone with my tax dollars. Especially wall street bankers and stupid people that bought more house than they could afford.

I am a guy who plays by the rules, pays my taxes and my bills without a single dollar in help from any government agency, who has never taken unemployment checks, even when I was unemployed. All I ask is that my fellow citizens do the same.

cosmostein77

I agree, what far to many people are too busy stomping their feet to realize is that this package stands to benefit the US Government in a huge way in the next few years.

The reality is this "bail out" is not a dump truck of money and best wishes to big banks, the money buys debt that is tied to assets (IE Homes) that the Federal government will be buying at 50 cents on the dollar of an already reduced value.

If they hold those assets and slowly start selling them back as the industry rights itself over the next few years they can easily land 60 to 65 cents on the dollar thus turning around a huge profit in a fairly short period of time,

thank you! i'm glad someone else sees that this is more akin to an investment rather than a payoff.

[QUOTE="cosmostein77"][QUOTE="Jocubus"][QUOTE="collegeboy64"]

HOORAY !!!! The US avoids socialism for at least a little while longer. Words cannot express my disgust at the thought of bailing out anyone with my tax dollars. Especially wall street bankers and stupid people that bought more house than they could afford.

I am a guy who plays by the rules, pays my taxes and my bills without a single dollar in help from any government agency, who has never taken unemployment checks, even when I was unemployed. All I ask is that my fellow citizens do the same.

comp_atkins

I agree, what far to many people are too busy stomping their feet to realize is that this package stands to benefit the US Government in a huge way in the next few years.

The reality is this "bail out" is not a dump truck of money and best wishes to big banks, the money buys debt that is tied to assets (IE Homes) that the Federal government will be buying at 50 cents on the dollar of an already reduced value.

If they hold those assets and slowly start selling them back as the industry rights itself over the next few years they can easily land 60 to 65 cents on the dollar thus turning around a huge profit in a fairly short period of time,

thank you! i'm glad someone else sees that this is more akin to an investment rather than a payoff.

I think the real question is, since when did it become a good idea for our government to become a for-profit investment company?

I think the real question is, since when did it become a good idea for our government to become a for-profit investment company?

guynamedbilly

Clinton did it with Mexico in the 90s.

There were just as many educated people saying this was a bad idea. I've been hearing many interviews on NPR with consultants and different people and I don't think anyone knows what will happen either way. What I do know is when the governement goes to lobbyist for some of the richest people in the US and asks them what needs to be done to strengthen the economy, I trust their decision about as much as I'd trust some religious leader or uneducated politician.

guynamedbilly

You know, at some point you have to stop listening to analysts, because you're a fool to think analysts don't have a personal agenda to fulfill when they tell you how the economy is doing. Not everyone cries when the market collapses. Ever heard of short selling? Do you think a short seller is crying now? Do you think he's going to tell you that the market's fine and that this is a ridiculous over-reaction? Of course not. He'll tell you the end is nigh, that there's no hope of recovery, and that you'd better sell everything you have right now before it's worth nothing.

The bill should have passed. People who think it's bad that they would have to pay some taxes to prop up institutions that were irresponsible will think it's even worse when they have no taxes to pay because they don't have jobs.

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]

There were just as many educated people saying this was a bad idea. I've been hearing many interviews on NPR with consultants and different people and I don't think anyone knows what will happen either way. What I do know is when the governement goes to lobbyist for some of the richest people in the US and asks them what needs to be done to strengthen the economy, I trust their decision about as much as I'd trust some religious leader or uneducated politician.

pianist

You know, at some point you have to stop listening to analysts, because you're a fool to think analysts don't have a personal agenda to fulfill when they tell you how the economy is doing. Not everyone cries when the market collapses. Ever heard of short selling? Do you think a short seller is crying now? Do you think he's going to tell you that the market's fine and that this is a ridiculous over-reaction? Of course not. He'll tell you the end is nigh, that there's no hope of recovery, and that you'd better sell everything you have right now before it's worth nothing.

The bill should have passed. People who think it's bad that they would have to pay some taxes to prop up institutions that were irresponsible will think it's even worse when they have no taxes to pay because they don't have jobs.

The short sellers are crying because they cannot short bank stocks :P

[QUOTE="OfficialJab"]What exactly is going to come of all this? What is the result of all these stocks falling and bailouts etc. I don't know what's going on! :oEngrish_Major

It just means that we should run in the streets yelling with our arms flailing.

:lol:

"It's all over people.... we don't have a prayer!"

The short sellers are crying because they cannot short bank stocks :P

comp_atkins

Ah, but they can short everything else. I wish I had short selling privileges, because there have been an awful lot of great-looking short set-ups in the past year.