[QUOTE="Rekunta"]
I have a question that's been gnawing on my for a while, and maybe some Christians/believers can lend me a hand in understanding...
We're all natural sinners, or that's what I continually hear over and over. You naughty, naughty children, shame on you! Basically, you follow and embrace a belief system that tells you off the bat that you are scum from birth. You're worthless. Worse than worthless...you have no validation except the one God imparts unto you IF you accept his terms under coercion, (masked and claimed as "mercy" and "love"), and in fact are so loathsome and contemptuous as to warrant an ETERNITY in the flames of hell burning in agony if you do not do so. No good deeds can change this, only by faith. My question is simply: why, would anybody, in their right mind embrace this notion? Is it some sort of masochistic compulsion? Low self-esteem? I'd like to hear reasons, not just, "well, it's part of my faith". I know it is. I'm looking for the logic behind it.
Now, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed and often miss the obvious, so help me out here. I'm not familiar with the Bible aside from a few passages. It's really not the belief or how it came to be, it's why any person would find something like this an acceptable position to take in relation to themselves. I see no sense and no benefit in it, aside from setting up a pretense to "choose" to be forgiven by such a merciful God who put you in the predicament in the first place. And another question: if you had (or have) children, would you not tell them from the earliest age that they are terrible people? Why not? You find it perfectly acceptable to have your faith do the same to you.
What's the difference, and how do you come to justify such a perspective?
GabuEx
Everything in the world is bad when taken to excess or to its extreme, and I think what you describe is more or less the extreme version of it. I mean Jesus didn't constantly go around telling everyone that they were terrible, terrible people and the scum of the Earth. He did certainly sometimes put those with oversized heads in their place, though. It's not, in my view, so much a matter of humans being horrible, terrible people, but rather an acceptance of the fact that we are imperfect, and that we will always be imperfect no matter how much we improve, and that, as such, we should never be content with the way we are, but rather should always strive for self-improvement and humility in the presence of others. And, as a corollary to that, we must also be mindful of the fact that God loves everyone, no matter how imperfect they are - so who are we to judge them, and to point our finger at them, and to call them "bad", when we ourselves, given the right circumstances, are no better than they?
I think one thing that one should keep in mind is the sort of person for whom Jesus reserved his more barbed language - it was always, without fail, those who thought themselves the most pious and upstanding members of society. Jesus embraced those who were poor and miserable, while attacking those who parade themselves around town with their peacock tailfeathers held high. In this way I believe Jesus was setting the example for the rest in how we too should act.
I do recognize that there are people who do take it to the extreme you mention, though. I feel, at least from my experience, that this is more or less exactly the sort of thing that Jesus would attack mercilessly, as whenever people act like that, I can't help but notice that their barbs are always directed at everyone else... never themselves.
Those are who I'm directing my question at, although I do appreciate your feedback as always, and I agree with you on most of your points. I would like to hear from a certain member of the CWU, I think you probably know who I'm referring to, unfortunately he doesn't seem to frequent these forums anymore.
Everything can be taken to extremes, but I don't see how this can be seen as such. If one's a Christian, sin and eternal damnation are fundamental and central tenets of the faith. You sin and warrant eternal torture unless you believe, period. And the way I see it, the extent and ferocity of the punishment caused by these imperfections is a direct implication of one's worth. Just like how a murderer is viewed and sentenced as opposed to someone who just steals a T.V. We are imperfect, yes, but that means endless torment. Would such punishment be handed out by someone that does not despise the offender to the highest degree possible?
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