how can atheists denounce christians for extremism if two majo idioligies cause

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Religion played a decent part in Nazism to begin with. ragek1ll589

Actually it did. In the 1920's some of the biggest advocates for the NSDAP were Catholic Theologians, particularly in Munich. The Nazi Party, in the late 1930's, also tried to unify itself with the Protestant Church in Germany and form a primary Reich Church.

What drew many Germans to Nazism was its staunch antisemitism, something which many Catholics in Germany adhered to at the time.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"] Yeah really. It's also clear from the various quotes and beliefs stated by Hitler himself that he held religious views, nothing even close to Atheism. HoolaHoopMan

Economic hardship in Germany post WWI caused it, without exception. Furthermore there have been conflicting statements from acquaintances of Hitler regarding his religious beliefs.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"] Yeah really. It's also clear from the various quotes and beliefs stated by Hitler himself that he held religious views, nothing even close to Atheism. HoolaHoopMan

Economic hardship in Germany post WWI caused it, without exception. Furthermore there have been conflicting statements from acquaintances of Hitler regarding his religious beliefs.

Nazism, as far as I know didn't have any particular official stance on religion. Hitler himself, there have been statements from contemporaries stating that he was Christian and atheist. It's possible.

But it wasn't a religious issue either. So you did the same thing he did....LJS9502_basic

Learn to read what I actually wrote instead of infering stuff that I didn't say, it's helps.

The original OP said that Nazism was based on Atheism, all I did was say that it clearly wasn't. There are many religious undertones to the Nazi movement, and Hitler was definatly not an Athiest. A quick google search of "Religion and Nazi Germany" can clearly prove that Nazism isn't based on Athiesm.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]But it wasn't a religious issue either. So you did the same thing he did....HoolaHoopMan

Learn to read what I actually wrote instead of infering stuff that I didn't say, it's helps.

The original OP said that Nazism was based on Atheism, all I did was say that it clearly wasn't. There are many religious undertones to the Nazi movement, and Hitler was definatly not an Athiest. A quick google search of "Religion and Nazi Germany" can clearly prove that Nazism isn't based on Athiesm.

[QUOTE="ragek1ll589"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Not really. LJS9502_basic

Actually it did. In the 1920's some of the biggest advocates for the NSDAP were Catholic Theologians, particularly in Munich. The Nazi Party, in the late 1930's, also tried to unify itself with the Protestant Church in Germany and form a primary Reich Church.

What drew many Germans to Nazism was its staunch antisemitism, something which many Catholics in Germany adhered to at the time.

I'm not claiming it was a religious movement. I'm merely supporting the claim that religion had an influential role in the rise of Nazism.

Nazism, as far as I know didn't have any particular official stance on religion. Hitler himself, there have been statements from contemporaries stating that he was Christian and atheist. It's possible.

coolbeans90

There was a decent amount of Religious undertones in Nazism to cleary disprove of it being Atheistic. It had many christian influences as well as pagan ones as well.

If anything was an amalgamation several religious ideas wrapped up in political ideologies as well. It's anything but Atheistic, which reflects my initial post in this thread. I said nothing on the fact that Nazis were christian or that religion was solely responsible for Hitler's/Nazis rise to power, that's clearly not the case.

Hitler were atheists

HFkami

You'd be better off arguing Stalin and Mao.

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]But it wasn't a religious issue either. So you did the same thing he did....LJS9502_basic

Learn to read what I actually wrote instead of infering stuff that I didn't say, it's helps.

The original OP said that Nazism was based on Atheism, all I did was say that it clearly wasn't. There are many religious undertones to the Nazi movement, and Hitler was definatly not an Athiest. A quick google search of "Religion and Nazi Germany" can clearly prove that Nazism isn't based on Athiesm.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

Learn to read what I actually wrote instead of infering stuff that I didn't say, it's helps.

The original OP said that Nazism was based on Atheism, all I did was say that it clearly wasn't. There are many religious undertones to the Nazi movement, and Hitler was definatly not an Athiest. A quick google search of "Religion and Nazi Germany" can clearly prove that Nazism isn't based on Athiesm.

HoolaHoopMan

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Nazism, as far as I know didn't have any particular official stance on religion. Hitler himself, there have been statements from contemporaries stating that he was Christian and atheist. It's possible.

HoolaHoopMan

There was a decent amount of Religious undertones in Nazism to cleary disprove of it being Atheistic. It had many christian influences as well as pagan ones as well.

If anything was an amalgamation several religious ideas wrapped up in political ideologies as well. It's anything but Atheistic, which reflects my initial post in this thread. I said nothing on the fact that Nazis were christian or that religion was solely responsible for Hitler's/Nazis rise to power, that's clearly not the case.

Perhaps I should have stated this more clearly; I do not think that atheism was responsible for Nazism. I am sure that there were plenty of atheistic movements that swooned for Nazism as well in Germany, given that harsh conditions in that period of history, following losing WWI coupled with the great depression. That said, I do not think that religion, or lack thereof was the contributing factor to the movement. If anything, it was a reaction by people during those difficult times. For instance, let's take a look at the holocaust. Jews could be easily demonized as those who could be blamed for the current problems. The ideology picked a rather effective route towards this, by demonizing the Jews, whom were often affluent, rich, and consequently didn't suffer the same way the average German did. Throw in the ignorance of the vulnerable population, an easily demonized group of people also magically becomes the cause of their problems. Religion itself didn't play a major role in this. Political manipulation during times of economic distress did.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Religion played a decent part in Nazism to begin with. ragek1ll589

Actually it did. In the 1920's some of the biggest advocates for the NSDAP were Catholic Theologians, particularly in Munich. The Nazi Party, in the late 1930's, also tried to unify itself with the Protestant Church in Germany and form a primary Reich Church.

What drew many Germans to Nazism was its staunch antisemitism, something which many Catholics in Germany adhered to at the time.

Not nazism this, but the axis power in Italy signed the Latern treaty in 1929 therby securing the support of the Catholic Church! Also The Vatican's fanatical fear of the spread of communism helped in their backing of fascism in general ;>

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Nazism was NOT a religious movement.....LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Nazism, as far as I know didn't have any particular official stance on religion. Hitler himself, there have been statements from contemporaries stating that he was Christian and atheist. It's possible.

coolbeans90

There was a decent amount of Religious undertones in Nazism to cleary disprove of it being Atheistic. It had many christian influences as well as pagan ones as well.

If anything was an amalgamation several religious ideas wrapped up in political ideologies as well. It's anything but Atheistic, which reflects my initial post in this thread. I said nothing on the fact that Nazis were christian or that religion was solely responsible for Hitler's/Nazis rise to power, that's clearly not the case.

Perhaps I should have stated this more clearly; I do not think that atheism was responsible for Nazism. I am sure that there were plenty of atheistic movements that swooned for Nazism as well in Germany, given that harsh conditions in that period of history, following losing WWI coupled with the great depression. That said, I do not think that religion, or lack thereof was the contributing factor to the movement. If anything, it was a reaction by people at large at anything which demonized those who could easily be blamed for the current problems, and embraced a solution to said problems. The ideology picked a rather effective route towards both, by demonizing the Jews, whom were often affluent, rich, and consequently didn't suffer the same way the average German did. Throw in the ignorance of the vulnerable population, an easily demonized group of people also magically becomes the cause of their problems. Religion itself didn't play a major role in this.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]

There was a decent amount of Religious undertones in Nazism to cleary disprove of it being Atheistic. It had many christian influences as well as pagan ones as well.

If anything was an amalgamation several religious ideas wrapped up in political ideologies as well. It's anything but Atheistic, which reflects my initial post in this thread. I said nothing on the fact that Nazis were christian or that religion was solely responsible for Hitler's/Nazis rise to power, that's clearly not the case.

HoolaHoopMan

Perhaps I should have stated this more clearly; I do not think that atheism was responsible for Nazism. I am sure that there were plenty of atheistic movements that swooned for Nazism as well in Germany, given that harsh conditions in that period of history, following losing WWI coupled with the great depression. That said, I do not think that religion, or lack thereof was the contributing factor to the movement. If anything, it was a reaction by people at large at anything which demonized those who could easily be blamed for the current problems, and embraced a solution to said problems. The ideology picked a rather effective route towards both, by demonizing the Jews, whom were often affluent, rich, and consequently didn't suffer the same way the average German did. Throw in the ignorance of the vulnerable population, an easily demonized group of people also magically becomes the cause of their problems. Religion itself didn't play a major role in this.

Fair enough, and I agree as Nazism wasn't inherently atheistic.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"] I never said it was, reading comprehension FTL. It was a political movement first and foremost, however that doesn't make it immune from various religious ideology and beliefs permeating the movement itself. HoolaHoopMan

You also forget that Stalin studied to become a preist in his teenage years.

hooeyberg

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I wouldn't make a reading statement and then imply I posted something I did not. Where in my post did I say YOU?

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"] I'm not replying to your stupid bull*** any more. Read the OP and then read my first post in this thread, then you may see where I'm coming from. HoolaHoopMan

Hitler wasn't an atheist. He believed in God, and in some speeches refers to himself as a Christian.

Your argument is moronic. Two bad people were atheists, so clearly its bad. Christianity as a whole is responsible for how many deaths since its creation?

xLFTMx

[QUOTE="markop2003"]

They didn't kill in the name of atheism, they just happened to be atheists that killed.

HFkami

of course they did, both had atheistic believs and killed for these idioligies.

you need to read up on your history

Anyone who thinks Hitler was a Christian is fooling themselves. There is AMPLE evidence that he dabbled in the occult, persecuted the idea that God exists, and murdered hundreds of thousands of Christians. Maybe he went to church as a boy, but anyone who knows anything about Christianity knows attending church is NOT considered necessary or salvation providing. He used the idea of God and made references to Jesus and Christianity as it referred to Germany because he could not gain popularity in the deeply religious country by denouncing God. Christianity was nothing more than a tool he used to establish power of Germany and rally its people behind his ideas. We know the basis of his racist regime was natural selection, and he thought he could speed up the process of human evolution by eliminating undesirable genetic traits and social misfits. Sadly, Jews became his primary target. Christians, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill, and physically disabled people became his next targets because they posed the biggest threat to either tear his regime down or damage the perfect Aryan gene pool.

Wake up and see that most leaders try to use religious language to give their cause legitimacy, but often don't believe it in themselves. Other examples are the Islamic Caliphs in middle-eastern Mesopotamia, looking only to increase their power and wealth, Abraham Lincoln, frequently using scripture and references to God to lend a holy aspect to his war, although even a half-hearted study into his life shows he also dabbled in the occult and maintained somewhat atheistic or at least deistic beliefs throughout his whole life. A good modern example is about any american politician who drivels on about how much God means to them just to get votes in the South. It's the oldest trick in the book, but it still works every time.

Well Hitler is also a zombie, Gay, Jewish, Obama, Osama, Jorge Bush, ahmad, Kim jong, Stephen colbert, Hillary clinton, the pope .......................... ( add more w/ links)

check this out it proves once again that i am right

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Religion played a decent part in Nazism to begin with. LJS9502_basic

Oh yes it did,

Gott Mit Uns, remember ?

check this out it proves once again that i am right

HFkami

Wasn't Hitler also a painter and vegan?

Obviously he got the idea to kill millions from painting. I say we damn painting and eating veggies!

Anyone who thinks Hitler was a Christian is fooling themselves. There is AMPLE evidence that he dabbled in the occult, persecuted the idea that God exists, and murdered hundreds of thousands of Christians. Maybe he went to church as a boy, but anyone who knows anything about Christianity knows attending church is NOT considered necessary or salvation providing. He used the idea of God and made references to Jesus and Christianity as it referred to Germany because he could not gain popularity in the deeply religious country by denouncing God. Christianity was nothing more than a tool he used to establish power of Germany and rally its people behind his ideas. We know the basis of his racist regime was natural selection, and he thought he could speed up the process of human evolution by eliminating undesirable genetic traits and social misfits. Sadly, Jews became his primary target. Christians, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill, and physically disabled people became his next targets because they posed the biggest threat to either tear his regime down or damage the perfect Aryan gene pool.

Wake up and see that most leaders try to use religious language to give their cause legitimacy, but often don't believe it in themselves. Other examples are the Islamic Caliphs in middle-eastern Mesopotamia, looking only to increase their power and wealth, Abraham Lincoln, frequently using scripture and references to God to lend a holy aspect to his war, although even a half-hearted study into his life shows he also dabbled in the occult and maintained somewhat atheistic or at least deistic beliefs throughout his whole life. A good modern example is about any american politician who drivels on about how much God means to them just to get votes in the South. It's the oldest trick in the book, but it still works every time.

bachilders

Are you suggesting they abused religion? Even if, they couldn't had religions not existed. It's really easy, isn't it? Al-Qaida has nothing to do with Islam, Hitler had nothing to do with Christianity and all the American politicians aren't religious at all. Again, do you have any idea why they have to pretend to have faith to get voted for? Because the majority of the voters are religious. So religion really is the cause, anyway.

check this out it proves once again that i am right

HFkami

Do you even know what Atheism means? Being a Atheist is basic as being a theist.. Thats why its stupid as hell as to compare to Christianity.. Because Atheist is simply not believing in god.. There is no doctrine or ideology unique to it.. Same goes for theist.. Yet your trying to compare Christianity a very specific theist system compared to Atheism a attribute that does not explain a ideology what so ever.. Stalin did not destroy those places because he was a Atheist, he destroyed them because they were threats to his power.. A religious dictator would do the same thing, and they have historically.. Being a theist or atheist doesn't from the get go explain if your a blood thirsty tyrant.. If your argueing for one side it does, then your a hypocrity because there are ones on both sides.. The only reason why you see the wholesale slaughter at those levels seen, is because dictators had the technology and manpower that ones prior to that did not have.

Simply because someone belongs to some ideology or none, doesn't mean they act soley because of that ideology. Man's nature is violent and confrontational - that much we've seen across time, culture, race, religion, etc.

Hitler wasn't an atheist. He believed in God, and in some speeches refers to himself as a Christian.

Your argument is moronic. Two bad people were atheists, so clearly its bad. Christianity as a whole is responsible for how many deaths since its creation?

xLFTMx

[QUOTE="xLFTMx"]

Hitler wasn't an atheist. He believed in God, and in some speeches refers to himself as a Christian.

Your argument is moronic. Two bad people were atheists, so clearly its bad. Christianity as a whole is responsible for how many deaths since its creation?

lightleggy

So if he wasn't motivated by religious ideas, would you say he was by being atheist? Since atheist has no dogma and just means different non-beliefs. Also, if Hitler was no real christian, most "christians" aren't. They don't take the bible literally, they interpret into it what they want. I'd be interested how many real christians are there by that definition.

Atheism wasn't the cause of their insanity. Their insanity was the cause of their insanity.

Hitler wasn't an atheist. He believed in God, and in some speeches refers to himself as a Christian.

Your argument is moronic. Two bad people were atheists, so clearly its bad. Christianity as a whole is responsible for how many deaths since its creation?

xLFTMx