I don't believe it's possible to have "bad tastes" in music.

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LJS9502_basic

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#201 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

You can, quite easily. Most music dosn't have lyrics. They are supposed to complement each other when used, but the lyrics are still not what make music, which is why they are secondary. Folk music is diffrent, but at the end of the day the music is still more important, otherwise it's not music. I don't like folk music.

Yes it is, innovative means something new or a new technique/method, look it up then tell me I'm wrong. Incidently what has innovation/originality got to do with quality ofmusic? As long as it sounds good, it sounds good. Being new wont change that. Regardless that seems more gimmick than original. All music is diffrent, and all music does diffrent things, regardless of what it is and if it sounds like something else.Very little music can bedescribed as innovative or original using your definition, and very little music is original. It's a rare quality, but in my eyes it wont make it better because eventually it will become common, it's short lived.

The argumentI'm making is that people are allowed diffrent tastes, andthere is no way to measure the qaulity of their tastes, becausethere isn't.It's as simple as that. Technical skill is only irrelevant if it adds nothing to the song though, which is also subjective.

WasntAvailable

I don't know that saying most music doesn't have lyrics is correct as most of the music seems to have lyrics. If lyrics are used they are most certainly important to the music. Just as any other part of the music is important. They are a part of the music as the instruments and separating them is not enjoying the entire content of the music.

Yes....people are allowed different taste. No one is arguing that....I don't think. But there is still good and bad music. It's not all equal just because it's made nor because someone enjoys it.

I think most music dosn't have lyrics. By modern standards probably not, but certainly in the past I'm sure, and you've also got alot of film music, background etc. Lyrics are a small part of the music to me, intresting but the true enjoyment of music comes from the sound produced by the instruments. That will allways be more important to me, and that' my opinion. Saying lyrics make a song better is subjective, espically when someone finds the music its self incredible. Often times I feel lyrics can take away from music, often simplfying it to give more emphasis to the vocalist.

It's not equal either, but there is no objective way of stating a piece of music is bad, and ther efor music is subjective, because music will have diffrent effects on diffrent people, and diffrent people enjoy diffrent aspects of music.

In general....the majority of music has lyrics. That includes music from the past and present so stating most does not have lyrics would be an error. Taking the lyrics as less important than the other aspects of the music is strange. It's the complete package that makes the song/music. That would be like listening to cIassical but saying the violins are not important. Or rock and negating the affect of guitar.

Yes there IS an objective way of stating that music is better. There are specific rules in music. There is diversity in the ability of the musicians. Perhaps if one does not seek out better music they are comfortable accepting that what they listen to is equal to other music but I can tell that you Miley is NOT equal to Beethoven. No way....no how. And to state such means one is not familar with music.

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Hewkii

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#202 Hewkii
Member since 2006 • 26339 Posts

That dosn't change anything, there's still a massive postitive public opinion which means she still scores very highly.

Say aMiley song has complexity of 1 and a popularity of 100 (Percentages.).

1+ 100 = 101 = 50.5%

That's well higher than she should be scoring according to your own personal tastes.

That's also not a very good way of rating music either, technical ability wont make a song better by its self, and public opinion is pointless because it's just that, an opinion. In fact there is no good scale for rating music because it is subjective.

WasntAvailable
A. you're assuming each catagory is rated with the same weight. B. you are assuming my tastes in this particular artist. C. no, believe it or not there are songs which are critically acclaimed by the populace and critics, along with myself. D. there are actually a large amount of people who don't care for Miley Cirus.
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#203 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="GodofBigMacs"] Agreed. I would love to believe that music is 100% objective, but some musicians simply have zero talent and the fact that people like them makes me pissed.

*sighs* I'm so sick of the word "talent" being thrown around.

You can't talk about music without talking about talent.:|

I honestly don't give a crap.
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#204 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts
God...this thread has become completely pointless....everyone seems to just keep repeating what they already said over and over again...>_>Darth-Caedus
I concur. I don't feel like debating it anymore.
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#205 Fun_MallYak
Member since 2009 • 44 Posts
Can't we all just accept that Beethoven's 9th is better than a child banging random keys and go home?
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#206 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I don't know that saying most music doesn't have lyrics is correct as most of the music seems to have lyrics. If lyrics are used they are most certainly important to the music. Just as any other part of the music is important. They are a part of the music as the instruments and separating them is not enjoying the entire content of the music.

Yes....people are allowed different taste. No one is arguing that....I don't think. But there is still good and bad music. It's not all equal just because it's made nor because someone enjoys it.

LJS9502_basic

I think most music dosn't have lyrics. By modern standards probably not, but certainly in the past I'm sure, and you've also got alot of film music, background etc. Lyrics are a small part of the music to me, intresting but the true enjoyment of music comes from the sound produced by the instruments. That will allways be more important to me, and that' my opinion. Saying lyrics make a song better is subjective, espically when someone finds the music its self incredible. Often times I feel lyrics can take away from music, often simplfying it to give more emphasis to the vocalist.

It's not equal either, but there is no objective way of stating a piece of music is bad, and ther efor music is subjective, because music will have diffrent effects on diffrent people, and diffrent people enjoy diffrent aspects of music.

In general....the majority of music has lyrics. That includes music from the past and present so stating most does not have lyrics would be an error. Taking the lyrics as less important than the other aspects of the music is strange. It's the complete package that makes the song/music. That would be like listening to cIassical but saying the violins are not important. Or rock and negating the affect of guitar.

Yes there IS an objective way of stating that music is better. There are specific rules in music. There is diversity in the ability of the musicians. Perhaps if one does not seek out better music they are comfortable accepting that what they listen to is equal to other music but I can tell that you Miley is NOT equal to Beethoven. No way....no how. And to state such means one is not familar with music.

Lyrics take away from the focus on the music. Introducing lyrics means you have to concentrate on two things. I much prefer to just sit back and enjoy the music and the emotions it creates. I find it difficult to keep up with lyrics when they come at you so fast that I usually just end up ignoring them when I first hear a song. Lyrics arn't the same as vocals though, only a part of that. If you look at very early music there would been virtually no lyrics in theory. It's hard to say because there's also music that consists ofonlydrum beats, purely instrumental pieces, lots of classical music, sountracks etc. It's difficult to work out what's more common, but I would guess without lyrics because music with lyrics is a bit more limited I feel.

And there isn't an objective way of stating one piece of music is better than another.You assume that someone who has listened to Miley and liked ithas not listened to Beethoven, where that is actually very unlikely seeing asclassical music is absolutely everywhere (Of course they won't have actually heard HIM, more it.).If they don't find Beethoven superior then you can't say they are wrong just because they don't like it as much. All that means is Miley can stimulate that person in a way Beethoven can't (Denial of obvious jokes! :P). Music is what it is, sound that is used to create emotions. Because of the nature of music there is no way we can say one thing is superior to another because at the end of the day we are still only comparing one sound to another, or more accurately a collection of sounds. By saying someone has bad taste in music you are only saying you don't share their taste, nothing more.

I'm not going on though because I've said all I'm going to say several times already. I do not believe in "bad tastes in music". That's all.

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Code-Llama

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#207 Code-Llama
Member since 2009 • 747 Posts
I disagree completely. It is possible to have "bad taste" in music, however people should learn to respect everyone's taste, being it whether good or bad.
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#208 sonic__323
Member since 2007 • 23684 Posts
I disagree completely. It is possible to have "bad taste" in music, however people should learn to respect everyone's taste, being it whether good or bad.Code-Llama
Trust me, there is some people that don't respect the music I like..
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#209 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

Lyrics take away from the focus on the music. Introducing lyrics means you have to concentrate on two things. I much prefer to just sit back and enjoy the music and the emotions it creates. I find it difficult to keep up with lyrics when they come at you so fast that I usually just end up ignoring them when I first hear a song. Lyrics arn't the same as vocals though, only a part of that. If you look at very early music there would been virtually no lyrics in theory. It's hard to say because there's also music that consists ofonlydrum beats, purely instrumental pieces, lots of classical music, sountracks etc. It's difficult to work out what's more common, but I would guess without lyrics because music with lyrics is a bit more limited I feel.

And there isn't an objective way of stating one piece of music is better than another.You assume that someone who has listened to Miley and liked ithas not listened to Beethoven, where that is actually very unlikely seeing asclassical music is absolutely everywhere (Of course they won't have actually heard HIM, more it.).If they don't find Beethoven superior then you can't say they are wrong just because they don't like it as much. All that means is Miley can stimulate that person in a way Beethoven can't (Denial of obvious jokes! :P). Music is what it is, sound that is used to create emotions. Because of the nature of music there is no way we can say one thing is superior to another because at the end of the day we are still only comparing one sound to another, or more accurately a collection of sounds. By saying someone has bad taste in music you are only saying you don't share their taste, nothing more.

I'm not going on though because I've said all I'm going to say several times already. I do not believe in "bad tastes in music". That's all.

WasntAvailable

Perhaps to you but many people find lyrics enhance the music. Listening to music means you concentrate on many things at once. Unless you only listen to music created by one instrument.

Seriously you are not comparing Miley to Beethoven...are you?

Do you believe in talent?

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#210 Code-Llama
Member since 2009 • 747 Posts

Trust me, there is some people that don't respect the music I like..sonic__323

I can see that happening since it's fairly common.
Those people are just immature, so ignore them. The concept of "good taste" varies from person to person, and some like to think the music they listen to is supreme and that those who listen to music they dislike are inferior.

I believe in an absolute concept of "good music", and I'm not talking about the music I listen to exclusively because there are many artists I respect but don't like to listen to.

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#212 chopperdave447
Member since 2009 • 597 Posts
of course... in the same manner it is impossible to have a "right" opinion.
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#213 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts
I think it's understandable to defend one's music taste but I think it's wrong to underestimate talent.
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#214 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

I think it's understandable to defend one's music taste but I think it's wrong to underestimate talent.LJS9502_basic

Explain that please.

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Diablo112688

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#215 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts
You are correct. There is no real answer to anything. Everything is subject to countless things. Anyone who says different is just a ********************** fool.
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#216 Hewkii
Member since 2006 • 26339 Posts
You are correct. There is no real answer to anything. Everything is subject to countless things. Anyone who says different is just a ********************** fool. Diablo112688
you say that as though it's...absolute. or, shall we say...objective somehow.
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#217 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts
[QUOTE="Diablo112688"]You are correct. There is no real answer to anything. Everything is subject to countless things. Anyone who says different is just a ********************** fool. Hewkii
you say that as though it's...absolute. or, shall we say...objective somehow.

Well i could see how you say that, but what I am ultimately getting at is that nothing can really be called good or bad music. Everyone enjoys different things for different reasons. Technical ability or being profound may appeal to some, and what I would call crap may appeal to others more than something that I consider profound.
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#218 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts
By the way... I am drunk... so my apologies if my sentences are structured in confusing manners.
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#219 Lockedge
Member since 2002 • 16765 Posts
It's technically not possible to have bad taste in music unless you use that staement in context of popular media's opinion. My take on "bad music taste" applies to a person's variety of tastes and willingness to explore the spectrum of music. People with rigid tastes, IMHO have bad taste in music.
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#220 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts
Haven't you heard? If someone likes different music than you, they have a bad taste in music. :o
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#221 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I think it's understandable to defend one's music taste but I think it's wrong to underestimate talent.LikeHaterade

Explain that please.

I'd wager that those who have had their taste bashed are more in line with the statement that bad taste doesn't exist. So I understand why they would argue that way. However, when you assume all music as equal then you deny that talent does in fact vary. Some musicians are talented. Some are able to play an instrument. NOt always the same thing...

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#222 dracula_16
Member since 2005 • 16570 Posts

I'm not at all interested in being politically correct. By the same token, I don't have a problem being told that I have bad taste in music. Live and let live.

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#223 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
there is no such thing. agreed
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#224 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I think it's understandable to defend one's music taste but I think it's wrong to underestimate talent.LJS9502_basic

Explain that please.

I'd wager that those who have had their taste bashed are more in line with the statement that bad taste doesn't exist. So I understand why they would argue that way. However, when you assume all music as equal then you deny that talent does in fact vary. Some musicians are talented. Some are able to play an instrument. NOt always the same thing...

Yeah that is true. Specially if you play music you can really hear things... and realize what people are doing. Some people are capable of things others couldn't even dream of doing. That technical talent certainly means something, but at the same time it could mean very little to others.
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#225 Lockedge
Member since 2002 • 16765 Posts
[QUOTE="harashawn"] Haven't you heard? If someone likes different music than you, they have a bad taste in music. :o

:o You have a Matthew Good Band related signature! I take it you've heard his new album?
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#226 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts

:o You have a Matthew Good Band related signature! I take it you've heard his new album?Lockedge
Yes I do. :o And yes I have. I bought it the first day it came out. :P

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#227 mixmax5
Member since 2006 • 2347 Posts

It's all relative. Opinion is what it all comes down to.

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#228 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts

[QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="DivergeUnify"]

It doesn't matter if people like it- that doesn't justify calling it "good" music. Bad music is unoriginal, uninspired, usually lacking talent wise, simple( or just technical wankery), and repetative.

I don't give a **** who you are, but anyone who says Nickelback is better than a band like Yes, or Lil Wayne is better than a musician like John Coltrane, or BrokenCyde is better than My Bloody Valentine is simply under the influence of some sort of substance.

My favorite band is AFI, but you wouldn't catch me with my pants down saying they're the best band I listen to. Anyone who has a well-developed taste in music can probably objectively tell you which bands are better than others.

Lilyanne46

You're being subjective. Just because someone thinks one band is better than another doesn't mean their "under the influence of some sort of substance".

:?

"Under the influence of some kind of substance"?

Are you kidding me?

Well don't bash me about it. DivergeUnify said it first.
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DivergeUnify

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#229 DivergeUnify
Member since 2007 • 15150 Posts

Since everyone in this thread defending the TC doesn't really seem to understand this, let me visualize what you are saying:

This:

is no better than:

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LikeHaterade

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#230 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

I like the second one more.

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LJS9502_basic

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#231 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

I like the second one more.

LikeHaterade
It's looks bad to me.:(
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#233 sammyjenkis898
Member since 2007 • 28392 Posts

I like this one more.

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LJS9502_basic

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#234 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

I like this one more.

sammyjenkis898

Rivals Da Vinci I say....:P

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DivergeUnify

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#235 DivergeUnify
Member since 2007 • 15150 Posts

I like the second one more.

LikeHaterade
Whether you like it more or not doesn't matter. It's bad art. It lacks detail, style, perspective, and depth, where as the first one has all of those, making it objectively superior
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#236 DivergeUnify
Member since 2007 • 15150 Posts
[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

I like the second one more.

LJS9502_basic
It's looks bad to me.:(

It IS bad :P
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#237 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

I like the second one more.

LJS9502_basic

It's looks bad to me.:(

Me too. I said that just for the sake of arguing, but then I realized the text in between the pictures read, "is no better than" rather than, "is better than" which eliminated my chance at stirring up some dust. You follow?

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#238 sammyjenkis898
Member since 2007 • 28392 Posts

[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"]

I like this one more.

LJS9502_basic

Rivals Da Vinci I say....:P

Indeed. I have this bad boy framed on my wall.

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#239 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

I like the second one more.

DivergeUnify

Whether you like it more or not doesn't matter. It's bad art. It lacks detail, style, perspective, and depth, where as the first one has all of those, making it objectively superior

Actually, it's done in a specific style, and requires a specific perspective to truly appreciate it.

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#240 dissonantblack
Member since 2005 • 34009 Posts

i think that your taste in music is a reflection of your personality. your taste in music doesn't make you "superior" or "cooler" than someone else. It just makes you different regardless of how famous or controversial the bands you listen to are. It doesn't matter to me if a band is in the rock and roll hall of fame, or if it's a garage band that isn't signed. in the end a band is a band to me.

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Serraph105

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#241 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36092 Posts

I disagree I'm not one to fault people for liking catchy repetative music (unless it Solja Boy because I don't consider his stuff full songs)but have you ever heard of IWRESTLEDABEARONCE? I cant believe people even call it music much less consider it good.

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#242 DivergeUnify
Member since 2007 • 15150 Posts

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"][QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

I like the second one more.

LikeHaterade

Whether you like it more or not doesn't matter. It's bad art. It lacks detail, style, perspective, and depth, where as the first one has all of those, making it objectively superior

Actually, it's done in a specific style, and requires a specific perspective to truly appreciate it.

It's done in that "style" because skill limited the creator to just that. They didn't have an artistic choice.
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LikeHaterade

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#243 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

It's done in that "style" because skill limited the creator to just that. They didn't have an artistic choice. DivergeUnify

Actually, the artist painted it in the style of a form of abstract cubism, and it excels in it's specific style.

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#244 Ronstera
Member since 2007 • 6112 Posts
If they enjoy it then there's no point of not listening to it..
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#245 DivergeUnify
Member since 2007 • 15150 Posts

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"]It's done in that "style" because skill limited the creator to just that. They didn't have an artistic choice. LikeHaterade

Actually, the artist painted it in the style of a form of abstract cubism, and it excels in it's specific style.

Wrong :P
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#246 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

[QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"]It's done in that "style" because skill limited the creator to just that. They didn't have an artistic choice. DivergeUnify

Actually, the artist painted it in the style of a form of abstract cubism, and it excels in it's specific style.

Wrong :P

Busted... :(

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LJS9502_basic

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#247 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

[QUOTE="DivergeUnify"][QUOTE="LikeHaterade"]

Actually, the artist painted it in the style of a form of abstract cubism, and it excels in it's specific style.

LikeHaterade

Wrong :P

Busted... :(

You could try again.....:P

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majoras_wrath

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#248 majoras_wrath
Member since 2005 • 6062 Posts

[QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="DivergeUnify"]

It doesn't matter if people like it- that doesn't justify calling it "good" music. Bad music is unoriginal, uninspired, usually lacking talent wise, simple( or just technical wankery), and repetative.

I don't give a **** who you are, but anyone who says Nickelback is better than a band like Yes, or Lil Wayne is better than a musician like John Coltrane, or BrokenCyde is better than My Bloody Valentine is simply under the influence of some sort of substance.

My favorite band is AFI, but you wouldn't catch me with my pants down saying they're the best band I listen to. Anyone who has a well-developed taste in music can probably objectively tell you which bands are better than others.

Lilyanne46

You're being subjective. Just because someone thinks one band is better than another doesn't mean their "under the influence of some sort of substance".

:?

"Under the influence of some kind of substance"?

Are you kidding me?

Are you incredibly sheltered by your parents? Or are you a troll? Personally, I think Theokoth's argument was the most accurate. If literature can obviously be discerned as being trash, why can't music? Although that's probably a narrow line to tread, as I happen to like noise music but 99.9% of people would see it as just noise. Personally, I tend to definite it on the artistic ambition underlying it and how genuine said ambition is.
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LJS9502_basic

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#249 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180194 Posts

Personally, I think Theokoth's argument was the most accurate. If literature can obviously be discerned as being trash, why can't music? Although that's probably a narrow line to tread, as I happen to like noise music but 99.9% of people would see it as just noise. Personally, I tend to definite it on the artistic ambition underlying it and how genuine said ambition is.majoras_wrath
Well literature and music are two different things so I don't know that that analogy is the way to go but obviously in every artistic medium there is both good and bad.

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LikeHaterade

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#250 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts

You could try again.....:P

LJS9502_basic

I probably shouldn't. In hopes to stir up some dust within the thread, I have instead been exposed for the fraud that I truly am.