I don't get it...why would god punish us for his own mistakes?

If I create a world, and it falls apart, whose fault would it be? Mine, since it would be my project and I would be in complete control of everything that goes into it. I would be nothing more than a bully and a coward if I blamed all of my mistakes on the lesser beings that I created, knowing full well I designed them to be flawed.

So why does god point the finger at us and tell us that we have "fallen" short of his glory? Sounds like he just wants to avoid the blame for where he went wrong in his design of this life.

All this leads me to think - How could a being as majestic, powerful, and infinitely wise as god supposedly is, get all caught up in such petty and frivilous matters such as not being able to own up to making a mistake? I can own up to a mistake if I make one...does this make me better than god? And if I'm better than god, in any way, wouldn't that prove he is an imaginary being since it's impossible to create anything greater than yourself?

Why can't he say, "Ok, look, it's my fault the world turned out this way. Let me clean it up for you." Cause really, if he wanted to rid the world of all evil, he could just snap his fingers and make it so.

He made everything the way it is, and now he blames us for it...what the hell?

Why are atheist trying to start religious threads all the time??

Anyways, God made us, but since he is merciful, he gave us free will and a concience to think what is wrong and what is not.

At birth, we are practically perfect, the image of God himself, but as we grow up, we need tend to do unholy things, therefore, falling from God's grace.

But anyways, you can always go to the confessionary and be fine with God again...so it is your choice actually if you want to be punished or not.

What your saying is we had no free will and everything we did was because of his thoughts, but no we have free will and it is our mistakes not his for our owndecisions. Its not like he has our arm behind our back making us do everything we do.cryptosopoidium

Everything we do with our free will is still within the confines of what's possible for a human being to do. If he designed everything to operate in a certain manner, then yes I would say he is akin to a puppeteer.

Why are atheist trying to start religious threads all the time??fanboy-buster

Why are christians complaining about them all the time? I didn't force you to click...

Anyways, God made us, but since he is merciful, fanboy-buster

People in hell would disagree with you.

At birth, we are practically perfect, the image of God himself, but as we grow up, we need tend to do unholy things, therefore, falling from God's grace.fanboy-buster

We're born not knowing of a deity, and as we grow up we become brainwashed with lies, so yes I actually agree with you here. :)

At birth, we are practically perfect, the image of God himself, but as we grow up, we need tend to do unholy things, therefore, falling from God's grace.

fanboy-buster

Nope...Original sin

We are doomed from the start...

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

At birth, we are practically perfect, the image of God himself, but as we grow up, we need tend to do unholy things, therefore, falling from God's grace.

-_MURS_-

Nope...Original sin

We are doomed from the start...

Yeah, and how fair is that? It's obvious it's just a way for the church to get people to feel guilty and think they need church to heal. Which of course leads to money being given to the church...

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"] Anyways, God made us, but since he is merciful, Deity_Slapper

People in hell would disagree with you.

uhh they chose to out of heaven the only way you can be in hell is if you choose it over heaven and you do that by the choices you make here on earth. Everyone is destined for heaven but some people reject it by not following God's will.

Why are atheist trying to start religious threads all the time??

Anyways, God made us, but since he is merciful, he gave us free will and a concience to think what is wrong and what is not.

At birth, we are practically perfect, the image of God himself, but as we grow up, we need tend to do unholy things, therefore, falling from God's grace.

But anyways, you can always go to the confessionary and be fine with God again...so it is your choice actually if you want to be punished or not.

fanboy-buster

God looks like a baby? ;)

Anyway I also have trouble with this. God has known since the beginning of time (or before?) how things were going to turn out and that people would reject religion. Why not give everyone the unmistakable feeling of his presence if he wants to be worshiped? Why does God even feel the need to be worshipped? I would think God would be above such ego stroking.

what if we were all a tiny piece of God?AmyMizuno

In fact, wouldn't we be?

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

Why are atheist trying to start religious threads all the time??Deity_Slapper

Why are christians complaining about them all the time? I didn't force you to click...

Anyways, God made us, but since he is merciful, fanboy-buster

People in hell would disagree with you.

At birth, we are practically perfect, the image of God himself, but as we grow up, we need tend to do unholy things, therefore, falling from God's grace.fanboy-buster

We're born not knowing of a deity, and as we grow up we become brainwashed with lies, so yes I actually agree with you here. :)

Well, people in hell deserved it, because they didn't want to confess their sins. So it is actually their fault for being there.

If at least they redeemed, even in their last second, God could have accepted them in Heaven.

And what makes you so sure we aren't born with a deity in our minds? Do you actually remember yourself at that age?

You are just trying to make a lame arguement.

RULES FOR DEBATING:

Never have your opinion as a fact to other people (even more in abstract matters)

Study well what you are against so you don't make a fool of yourself...

You are just trying to make a lame arguement.

RULES FOR DEBATING:

Never have your opinion as a fact to other people (even more in abstract matters)

Study well what you are against so you don't make a fool of yourself...

fanboy-buster

After reading the rest of your post, the only word that came to mind, was : Irony.

Why does God even feel the need to be worshipped? I would think God would be above such ego stroking. gobo212

I feel the same way.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]what if we were all a tiny piece of God?AmyMizuno

In fact, wouldn't we be?

I like that. After all they are studying God's creation.

God looks like a baby? ;)

Anyway I also have trouble with this. God has known since the beginning of time (or before?) how things were going to turn out and that people would reject religion. Why not give everyone the unmistakable feeling of his presence if wants to be worshiped?

gobo212

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

fanboy-buster

I bet you're the same type of person who will also complain that the world is so wicked.

[QUOTE="gobo212"]

God looks like a baby? ;)

Anyway I also have trouble with this. God has known since the beginning of time (or before?) how things were going to turn out and that people would reject religion. Why not give everyone the unmistakable feeling of his presence if wants to be worshiped?

fanboy-buster

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

That really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Also the universe doesn't seem that perfect to me. You don't have to look beyond human society to see that.

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

You are just trying to make a lame arguement.

RULES FOR DEBATING:

Never have your opinion as a fact to other people (even more in abstract matters)

Study well what you are against so you don't make a fool of yourself...

Deity_Slapper

After reading the rest of your post, the only word that came to mind, was : Irony.

First of all, I wan trying to pass my opinions as facts.

Second, what I said os based on my knowledge of the Bible and theology class, where did you learn that people go to hell just because Gos is mean?

I see no irony in my post

We're God's children,

Imagine you have a child and he does something bad, well he has to get punished, right?

God also forgives us for many of our sins, you have to be pure hearted for that. Most of us don't know how to forgive like that

Plus if people can barely work hard to take care of their children, imagine how it is with millions of them ;)

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"][QUOTE="gobo212"]

God looks like a baby? ;)

Anyway I also have trouble with this. God has known since the beginning of time (or before?) how things were going to turn out and that people would reject religion. Why not give everyone the unmistakable feeling of his presence if wants to be worshiped?

gobo212

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

That really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Also the universe doesn't seem that perfect to me. You don't have to look beyond human society to see that.

[QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]what if we were all a tiny piece of God?AmyMizuno

In fact, wouldn't we be?

I like that. After all they are studying God's creation.

I don't either. If there is a creator though, it seems no one understands it better than scientists.

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

Deity_Slapper

I bet you're the same type of person who will also complain that the world is so wicked.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

AmyMizuno

I bet you're the same type of person who will also complain that the world is so wicked.

The point is, that the same people who say that the world is so perfect, are also the first to complain that it's going to hell after they hear of something bad happen.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

fanboy-buster

I bet you're the same type of person who will also complain that the world is so wicked.

I knew it! :lol:

Nice hole you dug for yourself there...hee hee hee...

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

Deity_Slapper

I bet you're the same type of person who will also complain that the world is so wicked.

The point is, that the same people who say that the world is so perfect, are also the first to complain that it's going to hell after they hear of something bad happen.

[QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="fanboy-buster"][QUOTE="gobo212"]

God looks like a baby? ;)

Anyway I also have trouble with this. God has known since the beginning of time (or before?) how things were going to turn out and that people would reject religion. Why not give everyone the unmistakable feeling of his presence if wants to be worshiped?

fanboy-buster

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

That really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Also the universe doesn't seem that perfect to me. You don't have to look beyond human society to see that.

That doesn't make sense. Things without freewill don't have to be controlled by a higher power. A tree will grow because it has food and sunlight. A planet will revolve around a star because of gravity. A tiger will hunt because it's hungry. These things don't necessitate a creator.

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="fanboy-buster"]

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

Deity_Slapper

I bet you're the same type of person who will also complain that the world is so wicked.

I knew it! :lol:

Nice hole you dug for yourself there...hee hee hee...

BTW read my previous post...

[QUOTE="fanboy-buster"][QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="fanboy-buster"][QUOTE="gobo212"]

God looks like a baby? ;)

Anyway I also have trouble with this. God has known since the beginning of time (or before?) how things were going to turn out and that people would reject religion. Why not give everyone the unmistakable feeling of his presence if wants to be worshiped?

gobo212

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

That really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Also the universe doesn't seem that perfect to me. You don't have to look beyond human society to see that.

That doesn't make sense. Things without freewill don't have to be controlled by a higher power. A tree will grow because it has food and sunlight. A planet will revolve around a star because of gravity. A tiger will hunt because it's hungry. These things don't necessitate a creator.

And also, there is were God shows its power, he plannes everything quite perfectly, making a perfect balance.

Yes they need a creator, if there wasn't a creator, a tiger, a tree or stars woudln't exists. fanboy-buster

You have no proof for this.

God shows its power, he plannes everything quite perfectly, making a perfect balance.

fanboy-buster

Then what is he so mad about?

What do you want God to do? Come down and take all the evil out of the world and fix every single mistake we ever made? 123625

He should, after all, he's the one who's mad about it. :roll:

[QUOTE="123625"]What do you want God to do? Come down and take all the evil out of the world and fix every single mistake we ever made? Deity_Slapper

He should, after all, he's the one who's mad about it. :roll:

So you would give up your free will? And who says God's mad about it? He gives you what you want after death. Yes you an atheist, he will give you what you want.

[QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="fanboy-buster"][QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="fanboy-buster"][QUOTE="gobo212"]

God looks like a baby? ;)

Anyway I also have trouble with this. God has known since the beginning of time (or before?) how things were going to turn out and that people would reject religion. Why not give everyone the unmistakable feeling of his presence if wants to be worshiped?

fanboy-buster

Haven't you seen the perfect balance of the universe? Everything in the universe runs perfectly. Everytime I think about this I know there is a higher power watching everything.

That really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Also the universe doesn't seem that perfect to me. You don't have to look beyond human society to see that.

That doesn't make sense. Things without freewill don't have to be controlled by a higher power. A tree will grow because it has food and sunlight. A planet will revolve around a star because of gravity. A tiger will hunt because it's hungry. These things don't necessitate a creator.

And also, there is were God shows its power, he plannes everything quite perfectly, making a perfect balance.

The Cosmological argument is not very compelling.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="123625"]What do you want God to do? Come down and take all the evil out of the world and fix every single mistake we ever made? 123625

He should, after all, he's the one who's mad about it. :roll:

So you would give up your free will?

If everything is gods' will, then we don't have free will.

Or we have free will but god doesn't exist. Can't have both.

For me, since god isn't real, he couldn't take away what he didn't give to me. How could I give up free will unless I commit suicide?

Why did God even feel the need to create anything?gobo212

Because he's a nice person.

[QUOTE="gobo212"]Why did God even feel the need to create anything?cyberdarkkid

Because he's a nice person.

Why did you even bother posting that? I guess it ups the ol' post count...

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

[QUOTE="123625"]What do you want God to do? Come down and take all the evil out of the world and fix every single mistake we ever made? Deity_Slapper

He should, after all, he's the one who's mad about it. :roll:

So you would give up your free will?

If everything is gods' will, then we don't have free will.

Or we have free will but god doesn't exist. Can't have both.

For me, since god isn't real, he couldn't take away what he didn't give to me. How could I give up free will unless I commit suicide?

Well i've never said everything is God's will.

And since God isn't real to you, why are you arguing then? What is the purpose of this thread if your not willing to put yourself in a hypothetical situation, like the one you stated in the beggining of this thread?

Also as long as God doesn't interfere with our decisions we have free will. He may know what we're gonna do, but it doesnt mean we don't have free will.

Now answer my question. Do you think we should give up our ability to sin and commit evil in exchange for loosing our free will?

[QUOTE="gobo212"]Why did God even feel the need to create anything?cyberdarkkid

Because he's a nice person.

So he's a person now?

And I thought that since god is everything and everywhere, that means he is inside of us too, making us god. No? Ok then...

If god is everything, and god has always been here, then everything else has always been here too, and he didn't create anything. In this case, god would just be the universe, misunderstood.

Which one do you like the most?