I don't get it...why would god punish us for his own mistakes?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="TheFlush"]There's no god, but then again, our actions don't really matter since we're not more than a speck of dust in this universe.Deity_Slapper

Could you perhaps show us the proof of that statement? It's not correctly worded...YOU don't believe in a God....but you can't say with certainty one does not exist.;)

Why are you asking him for proof when you can't prove what you believe to be real? The atheists' standpoint on the subject of the existence of deities is the logical, default position. No belief can exist until proof of what you want us to believe in, is provided.

If I believe in a made up deity who comes to us unattached from proof, what else might I fall for?

The lack of proof for actual existence of a deity, is actually solid proof that it is a man-made idea. How could the knowledge of a deity existing ever come to our attention as a people, if there is no proof of existence attached to that deity? If a deity just shows up out of nowhere, without proof of his origin, or even HIS VERY EXISTENCE, then it's pretty damn safe to say it's a fairy tale.

Logically speaking, of course... ;)

*sigh* He made an absolute statement that needs proof. Had he said he didn't believe in a god I'd have said nothing to him as that is his choice. Read again his first sentence.:roll:

I'm not stating my beliefs in this thread at all...and certainly not as fact. It's the subtleties in reading comprehension that will do an argument in.;)

Your debating skills seem to come down to intentionally misinterpreting posts. LJS9502_basic

I interperet things the way I interperet them. There is nothing intentional going on. You're just trying to make me look bad since you can't prove me wrong.

One feels proof for oneself...hence the term faith. It's personal and I couldn't begin to list how or what everyone finds to be their own personal proof.LJS9502_basic

This part is really funny. :lol:

"One feels proof for oneself...hence the term faith." Faith...which means belief without proof, therefore, any "proof" a person concludes they have recieved is really just wishful thinking. Something isn't proven in reality just because they imagined it to be.

And that term you used, "personal proof". There's a word for that, and it's called an "opinion". Different peoples' perceptions lead to different interperetations, which leads to different outlooks, or opinons, on different things.

How you put PROOF and FAITH in the same context is beyond baffling to me. They are polar opposites. As I've stated before, once something is proven, faith is no longer required.

There is no connectiveness to individuals one has never met. Period. If a child was never told they were adopted they'd not feel they were missing a relationship. This argument is now beyond silly.:roll:LJS9502_basic

You're right, this is beyond silly, because you keep claiming the underlined statement above. Using that exact statement, combined with logical thinking, we come to the conclusion that nobody has a connectedness with god, as no one has ever met god. Is god not an individual? According to your own doctrine, he is. Period.

As far as relationships are concerned, an adopted child may not feel he's missing a relationship (when he's young), as you say, but I guarantee you as the child ages, he'll begin to wonder why he has nothing in common with his adoptive parents. (Looks, personality traits, etc.) Curiosity leads to these kinds of things, you know? He'll ask his adoptive parents why he's different from them, and unless the parents are lying pieces of crap, they'll tell the kid he's adopted. After that point, he'd feel like he is missing out on a lot, wouldn't you think? Not everything is so black and white.

No....there is no logic present. If you can't conceive of something.....you can't put limits on it. That is illogical. And to be honest...foolish.

LJS9502_basic

That didn't even make sense. You're so vague all the time and I wonder why... Don't want to get eaten alive? Put out as little information as possible so as to leave your opponent with less to pick apart? Scared of losing the debate?

A relationship with God is innate to the person. It's in the responses they feel they get when talking/praying to God. LJS9502_basic

You'd have to prove god is real first, before this statement can be credible in the slightest. You know that, right?

A relationship with people relies on knowing the people. If you don't know your biological parents and have had zero contact with them...then you have no basis in reality for creating them the way you do. LJS9502_basic

Same thing with god. You have no basis in reality for creating him in the manner you see him as existing. You've had zero contact with god, as has everyone else. Ever notice how different people have different ideas on who god is, what he would do in certain situations, and even what type of emotions he would show in any number of scenarios? Yeah, because everyone (who believes in the first place) has a different idea of who god is. Everyone creates their own god. Everyone sees god how they like to see him in their mind and then they spread that around to everyone else.

Now if there's only one true god, who's is it? Yours, LJS? There's as many different gods are there are believers since you all give him your own characteristics. He's just like Mr. Potato Head; you dress him up the way you like best. :)

*sigh* He made an absolute statement that needs proof. LJS9502_basic

Awww... that little sigh there...that was so cute. But guess what? You make absolute statements all the time that you fail to follow up with proof. So? And why did you ignore the point I made? Forget what he said.

I want you to tell me how a deity would ever come to our attention in the first place without proof of it's existence accompanying it. Makes no sense. It's an obvious fairy tale.

Tell me how god came to be known in our lives, but proof of him existing in the first place failed to make the trip. Because you've only heard of him in a book that was written by mankind. That's why. It's all fake.

Also, LJS, 3 times you ignored this point:

Tell me how you believe that the world is so complex that it must have been created by god, yet god himself, being even more complex, was always just there. It's a blatant contradiction, is it not?

You say the world must have been created due to it's massive complexity, thus you are pretty much saying that anything else of similar complexity must be created. Following that line of thinking, and using logic at the same time, we also then realize that god himself must be just as complex (or even more so) in order to create complexity itself. Therefore, since we established earlier that complexity must be deisgned (according to your logic), then the complexity that is god must also have been designed. You even said this must be the case when you said the earth is too complex to have been here by chance. Well then, god is also too complex to have just been here by chance since he's equally or more complex than the planet that was too complex to have just been here.

So then, god must have been created by a god above him, and logically of course, a god above that god created that god. And on and on. The never-ending illogical chain of ludicrous creation. The only possibility is that there is no god, because this chain of complexity creating the god beneath it, is clearly insanity.

Bottom line is: THERE IS NO GOD -- IT'S THE UNIVERSE THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN HERE -- PEOPLE MADE UP "GOD" TO FILL THE GAPS IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE, AS THE EGO HAS A HARD TIME ADMITTING IT'S SHORTCOMINGS.

You thoughts on this?

Also, LJS, 3 times you ignored this point:

Tell me how you believe that the world is so complex that it must have been created by god, yet god himself, being even more complex, was always just there. It's a blatant contradiction, is it not?

You say the world must have been created due to it's massive complexity, thus you are pretty much saying that anything else of similar complexity must be created. Following that line of thinking, and using logic at the same time, we also then realize that god himself must be just as complex (or even more so) in order to create complexity itself. Therefore, since we established earlier that complexity must be deisgned (according to your logic), then the complexity that is god must also have been designed. You even said this must be the case when you said the earth is too complex to have been here by chance. Well then, god is also too complex to have just been here by chance since he's equally or more complex than the planet that was too complex to have just been here.

So then, god must have been created by a god above him, and logically of course, a god above that god created that god. And on and on. The never-ending illogical chain of ludicrous creation. The only possibility is that there is no god, because this chain of complexity creating the god beneath it, is clearly insanity.

Bottom line is: THERE IS NO GOD -- IT'S THE UNIVERSE THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN HERE -- PEOPLE MADE UP "GOD" TO FILL THE GAPS IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE, AS THE EGO HAS A HARD TIME ADMITTING IT'S SHORTCOMINGS.

You thoughts on this?

Deity_Slapper

Wow man, your on a roll.Just use the babel fish argument and call it a day.I know you dont want to let go of the debate, but everyone and their grandmother knows that theists have zero evidence,i say just let it go and leave them to their delusion.Some will eventually use their heads and stray away and others will be doomed to ignorance for the rest of their existence.

I know, im starting to care less, and less everyday.Its really not worth it.

Wow man, your on a roll.Just use the babel fish argument and call it a day.I know you dont want to let go of the debate, but everyone and their grandmother knows that theists have zero evidence,i say just let it go and leave them to their delusion.Some will eventually use their heads and stray away and others will be doomed to ignorance for the rest of their existence.

I know, im starting to care less, and less everyday.Its really not worth it.

xxDustmanxx

But I like these debates! :lol:

I see myself one day reaching the point of apathy that you have reached...I really do. Sometimes I feel the same way actually. But for some reason I still enjoy engaging in debates on topics like this. It's good brain exercise, regardless. I like the challenge.

It's also good practice for when I take over the world later on in life. :P (Oh crap, there I go with my own delusional wishful thinking!)

Also, LJS, 3 times you ignored this point:

Tell me how you believe that the world is so complex that it must have been created by god, yet god himself, being even more complex, was always just there. It's a blatant contradiction, is it not?

You say the world must have been created due to it's massive complexity, thus you are pretty much saying that anything else of similar complexity must be created. Following that line of thinking, and using logic at the same time, we also then realize that god himself must be just as complex (or even more so) in order to create complexity itself. Therefore, since we established earlier that complexity must be deisgned (according to your logic), then the complexity that is god must also have been designed. You even said this must be the case when you said the earth is too complex to have been here by chance. Well then, god is also too complex to have just been here by chance since he's equally or more complex than the planet that was too complex to have just been here.

So then, god must have been created by a god above him, and logically of course, a god above that god created that god. And on and on. The never-ending illogical chain of ludicrous creation. The only possibility is that there is no god, because this chain of complexity creating the god beneath it, is clearly insanity.

Bottom line is: THERE IS NO GOD -- IT'S THE UNIVERSE THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN HERE -- PEOPLE MADE UP "GOD" TO FILL THE GAPS IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE, AS THE EGO HAS A HARD TIME ADMITTING IT'S SHORTCOMINGS.

You thoughts on this?

Deity_Slapper

*sigh* I've never seen that post. And since you wish to tell us 'facts' then I must ask for your proof that there is no God. Since that is one thing that is not able to be proven or disproven. You're up....give me the proof.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Your debating skills seem to come down to intentionally misinterpreting posts. Deity_Slapper

I interperet things the way I interperet them. There is nothing intentional going on. You're just trying to make me look bad since you can't prove me wrong.

One feels proof for oneself...hence the term faith. It's personal and I couldn't begin to list how or what everyone finds to be their own personal proof.LJS9502_basic

This part is really funny. :lol:

"One feels proof for oneself...hence the term faith." Faith...which means belief without proof, therefore, any "proof" a person concludes they have recieved is really just wishful thinking. Something isn't proven in reality just because they imagined it to be.

And that term you used, "personal proof". There's a word for that, and it's called an "opinion". Different peoples' perceptions lead to different interperetations, which leads to different outlooks, or opinons, on different things.

How you put PROOF and FAITH in the same context is beyond baffling to me. They are polar opposites. As I've stated before, once something is proven, faith is no longer required.

There is no connectiveness to individuals one has never met. Period. If a child was never told they were adopted they'd not feel they were missing a relationship. This argument is now beyond silly.:roll:LJS9502_basic

You're right, this is beyond silly, because you keep claiming the underlined statement above. Using that exact statement, combined with logical thinking, we come to the conclusion that nobody has a connectedness with god, as no one has ever met god. Is god not an individual? According to your own doctrine, he is. Period.

As far as relationships are concerned, an adopted child may not feel he's missing a relationship (when he's young), as you say, but I guarantee you as the child ages, he'll begin to wonder why he has nothing in common with his adoptive parents. (Looks, personality traits, etc.) Curiosity leads to these kinds of things, you know? He'll ask his adoptive parents why he's different from them, and unless the parents are lying pieces of crap, they'll tell the kid he's adopted. After that point, he'd feel like he is missing out on a lot, wouldn't you think? Not everything is so black and white.

No....there is no logic present. If you can't conceive of something.....you can't put limits on it. That is illogical. And to be honest...foolish.

LJS9502_basic

That didn't even make sense. You're so vague all the time and I wonder why... Don't want to get eaten alive? Put out as little information as possible so as to leave your opponent with less to pick apart? Scared of losing the debate?

A relationship with God is innate to the person. It's in the responses they feel they get when talking/praying to God. LJS9502_basic

You'd have to prove god is real first, before this statement can be credible in the slightest. You know that, right?

A relationship with people relies on knowing the people. If you don't know your biological parents and have had zero contact with them...then you have no basis in reality for creating them the way you do. LJS9502_basic

Same thing with god. You have no basis in reality for creating him in the manner you see him as existing. You've had zero contact with god, as has everyone else. Ever notice how different people have different ideas on who god is, what he would do in certain situations, and even what type of emotions he would show in any number of scenarios? Yeah, because everyone (who believes in the first place) has a different idea of who god is. Everyone creates their own god. Everyone sees god how they like to see him in their mind and then they spread that around to everyone else.

Now if there's only one true god, who's is it? Yours, LJS? There's as many different gods are there are believers since you all give him your own characteristics. He's just like Mr. Potato Head; you dress him up the way you like best. :)

*sigh* He made an absolute statement that needs proof. LJS9502_basic

Awww... that little sigh there...that was so cute. But guess what? You make absolute statements all the time that you fail to follow up with proof. So? And why did you ignore the point I made? Forget what he said.

I want you to tell me how a deity would ever come to our attention in the first place without proof of it's existence accompanying it. Makes no sense. It's an obvious fairy tale.

Tell me how god came to be known in our lives, but proof of him existing in the first place failed to make the trip. Because you've only heard of him in a book that was written by mankind. That's why. It's all fake.

One......first you need to understand faith and how it works. Whether you have it or not a discussion CANNOT take place when one doesn't have or feigns that one doesn't have the definition. There has to be a basic understanding before an exchange of ideas can take place. You have not displayed this understanding...yet you sought out the explanation. If you don't want to accept it then don't make a pretense of wanting to do so.

Two.....second you need to understand the term relationship. This I think goes more to the stubbornness in admitting an opinion was wrong and trying (unsuccessfully) to divert the argument.

Three.....you haven't put any points into your post. Just ad hominem attacks. Seriously dude if you can't discuss with me...don't bother responding. I'm bored with this. I prefer actual discussions:roll:

I don't need to prove your wrong.....you do that yourself. You're not arguing points...you're arguing definitions. They're in the dictionary for quick reference.;)

[

Wow man, your on a roll.Just use the babel fish argument and call it a day.I know you dont want to let go of the debate, but everyone and their grandmother knows that theists have zero evidence,i say just let it go and leave them to their delusion.Some will eventually use their heads and stray away and others will be doomed to ignorance for the rest of their existence.

I know, im starting to care less, and less everyday.Its really not worth it.

xxDustmanxx

He's not on much of a roll. He hasn't created any discussion points. His entire debate is trying to laugh at other posters. He hasn't even addressed what they've said.

If my response to you was :lol:this made me laugh would you think I added to the conversation?

If I create a world, and it falls apart, whose fault would it be? Mine, since it would be my project and I would be in complete control of everything that goes into it. I would be nothing more than a bully and a coward if I blamed all of my mistakes on the lesser beings that I created, knowing full well I designed them to be flawed.

So why does god point the finger at us and tell us that we have "fallen" short of his glory? Sounds like he just wants to avoid the blame for where he went wrong in his design of this life.

All this leads me to think - How could a being as majestic, powerful, and infinitely wise as god supposedly is, get all caught up in such petty and frivilous matters such as not being able to own up to making a mistake? I can own up to a mistake if I make one...does this make me better than god? And if I'm better than god, in any way, wouldn't that prove he is an imaginary being since it's impossible to create anything greater than yourself?

Why can't he say, "Ok, look, it's my fault the world turned out this way. Let me clean it up for you." Cause really, if he wanted to rid the world of all evil, he could just snap his fingers and make it so.

He made everything the way it is, and now he blames us for it...what the hell?

Deity_Slapper

You seemed to have missed the point about us being given free will.. we make out own choices and are responsible for them.

[QUOTE="xxDustmanxx"]

Wow man, your on a roll.Just use the babel fish argument and call it a day.I know you dont want to let go of the debate, but everyone and their grandmother knows that theists have zero evidence,i say just let it go and leave them to their delusion.Some will eventually use their heads and stray away and others will be doomed to ignorance for the rest of their existence.

I know, im starting to care less, and less everyday.Its really not worth it.

Godly_Cure

He's not on much of a roll. He hasn't created any discussion points. His entire debate is trying to laugh at other posters. He hasn't even addressed what they've said.

If my response to you was :lol:this made me laugh would you think I added to the conversation?

24 pages (by my settings) of thread seems like quite a discussion to me.

Deity_Slapper, (or "God_Whore" as I prefer to think of them) does respond with argument. DS's mocking tones and candid views can I'm sure be infuriating, but the content and justification of what is being said is reasonable.

I think there is clear evidence in this thread that Deity_Slapper has responded directly to posters rebutting his/her arguments.

I believe it is always a worthy thing to debate religion: I think humanity would develop a common understanding far more quickly without it.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

If I create a world, and it falls apart, whose fault would it be? Mine, since it would be my project and I would be in complete control of everything that goes into it. I would be nothing more than a bully and a coward if I blamed all of my mistakes on the lesser beings that I created, knowing full well I designed them to be flawed.

So why does god point the finger at us and tell us that we have "fallen" short of his glory? Sounds like he just wants to avoid the blame for where he went wrong in his design of this life.

All this leads me to think - How could a being as majestic, powerful, and infinitely wise as god supposedly is, get all caught up in such petty and frivilous matters such as not being able to own up to making a mistake? I can own up to a mistake if I make one...does this make me better than god? And if I'm better than god, in any way, wouldn't that prove he is an imaginary being since it's impossible to create anything greater than yourself?

Why can't he say, "Ok, look, it's my fault the world turned out this way. Let me clean it up for you." Cause really, if he wanted to rid the world of all evil, he could just snap his fingers and make it so.

He made everything the way it is, and now he blames us for it...what the hell?

Rattlesnake_8

You seemed to have missed the point about us being given free will.. we make out own choices and are responsible for them.

Free will cannot co-exist with an omniscient deity, so unless you posit a non-omniscient one, your argument is void.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

Also, LJS, 3 times you ignored this point:

Tell me how you believe that the world is so complex that it must have been created by god, yet god himself, being even more complex, was always just there. It's a blatant contradiction, is it not?

You say the world must have been created due to it's massive complexity, thus you are pretty much saying that anything else of similar complexity must be created. Following that line of thinking, and using logic at the same time, we also then realize that god himself must be just as complex (or even more so) in order to create complexity itself. Therefore, since we established earlier that complexity must be deisgned (according to your logic), then the complexity that is god must also have been designed. You even said this must be the case when you said the earth is too complex to have been here by chance. Well then, god is also too complex to have just been here by chance since he's equally or more complex than the planet that was too complex to have just been here.

So then, god must have been created by a god above him, and logically of course, a god above that god created that god. And on and on. The never-ending illogical chain of ludicrous creation. The only possibility is that there is no god, because this chain of complexity creating the god beneath it, is clearly insanity.

Bottom line is: THERE IS NO GOD -- IT'S THE UNIVERSE THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN HERE -- PEOPLE MADE UP "GOD" TO FILL THE GAPS IN THEIR KNOWLEDGE, AS THE EGO HAS A HARD TIME ADMITTING IT'S SHORTCOMINGS.

You thoughts on this?

LJS9502_basic

*sigh* I've never seen that post. And since you wish to tell us 'facts' then I must ask for your proof that there is no God. Since that is one thing that is not able to be proven or disproven. You're up....give me the proof.

How can I disprove what has yet to be proven? That's impossible. I'm only pointing out why belief in god is irrational. I'm not disproving god. I say that there is no god at the end, but that's just my personal belief. I never proved god wasn't there, because again, I can't disprove what's never been proven.

If god has been proven it would be impossible to disprove him anyway. Just like I can't disprove that the sky appears blue to the human eye. It's just the way it is, and to try and disprove it would be ludicrous.

It's up to YOU actually, to prove that god exists, since you claim that he does. I'm at the default position of: no evidence = no belief. I don't have to explain anything. Just like you don't have to explain why you don't believe in gremlins. You're very aware that it would be illogical to believe in such nonsense without seeing it first. You would not need to give an explanation why you don't believe, because it's only being rational that you hold out on having belief in something until the proof comes along to enforce it.

BUT STILL, you haven't addressed the issue I posted. Can you do that? ONE MORE TIME I ASK YOU, explain to me why you believe that the earth is too complex to have just been here, but god has always been here despite his equal or greater level of complexity? You've dodged this question 4 times now, and it's probably because you know there is no rational response on your side for this. I know you saw it all 3 times earlier, don't lie to me. Just admit you're wrong, jeez.

How can I disprove what has yet to be proven? That's impossible. I'm only pointing out why belief in god is irrational. I'm not disproving god. I say that there is no god at the end, but that's just my personal belief. I never proved god wasn't there, because again, I can't disprove what's never been proven.

If god has been proven it would be impossible to disprove him anyway. Just like I can't disprove that the sky appears blue to the human eye. It's just the way it is, and to try and disprove it would be ludicrous.

It's up to YOU actually, to prove that god exists, since you claim that he does. I'm at the default position of: no evidence = no belief. I don't have to explain anything. Just like you don't have to explain why you don't believe in gremlins. You're very aware that it would be illogical to believe in such nonsense without seeing it first. You would not need to give an explanation why you don't believe, because it's only being rational that you hold out on having belief in something until the proof comes along to enforce it.

BUT STILL, you haven't addressed the issue I posted. Can you do that? ONE MORE TIME I ASK YOU, explain to me why you believe that the earth is too complex to have just been here, but god has always been here despite his equal or greater level of complexity? You've dodged this question 4 times now, and it's probably because you know there is no rational response on your side for this. I know you saw it all 3 times earlier, don't lie to me. Just admit you're wrong, jeez.

Deity_Slapper

Thank you for finally admitting you have no proof.:lol:

And no....I don't have to prove a thing. I made no absolute statements in regard to this question. You have however...but you said you can't prove your statement. /thread.

One......first you need to understand faith and how it works. LJS9502_basic

I'm trying to get you to tell me what it is. Seems you're unable...

Two.....second you need to understand the term relationship. This I think goes more to the stubbornness in admitting an opinion was wrong and trying (unsuccessfully) to divert the argument.LJS9502_basic

How can an opinion be wrong? Opinions aren't wrong, opinions are right to the individual who holds them. Remember what you said about personal proof? And then I explained what I felt about it? How I view relationships may be different than the way you do, and I don't build my opinions around the definitions of a dictionary. I follow my intuition, or rather, what my heart tells me.

Three.....you haven't put any points into your post. Just ad hominem attacks. Seriously dude if you can't discuss with me...don't bother responding. I'm bored with this. I prefer actual discussions:roll:LJS9502_basic

How is this not a discussion? We're discussing. You don't like being outshined, that's all. So now you complain.

I don't need to prove your wrong.....you do that yourself. LJS9502_basic

Point out where I proved myself wrong, please. :) ... :roll:

Also, another question of mine that you dodged: How did knowledge of god come to our attention without the proof of his existence attached to it? Explain this to me please. Seems like something of that nature can only happen in one's imaginaton, or a fairy tale, correct? If I'm not corret can you show me how I'm wrong? And please, actually SHOW ME how I'm wrong instead of pointing out how I'm breaking the "rules of debating". :lol:

There are no rules. You act like I'm not worthy of talking to just because I'm not following your standard of how a debate should progress. It's so obvious your trying to dodge me. And everyone knows why... ;)

Thank you for finally admitting you have no proof.:lol:

And no....I don't have to prove a thing. I made no absolute statements in regard to this question. You have however...but you said you can't prove your statement. /thread.

LJS9502_basic

I never claimed that I had any. You're making up things. But for the 5th time, LJS, explain to me what I've been asking you about complexity needing to be created, therefore making god himself a creation of a more complex creator, and so on. C'mon now, stop dodging...it doesn't look good.

And no....I don't have to prove a thing.

LJS9502_basic

^^^ By the way, that's a cop-out. You say you don't have to prove anything because you can't. And instead of admitting you're wrong, you just put your nose in the air and say, "Well I don't have to! Hmmph!" How old are you? :lol:

I'm trying to get you to tell me what it is. Seems you're unable...

How can an opinion be wrong? Opinions aren't wrong, opinions are right to the individual who holds them. Remember what you said about personal proof? And then I explained what I felt about it? How I view relationships may be different than the way you do, and I don't build my opinions around the definitions of a dictionary. I follow my intuition, or rather, what my heart tells me.

How is this not a discussion? We're discussing. You don't like being outshined, that's all. So now you complain.

Point out where I proved myself wrong, please. :) ... :roll:

Also, another question of mine that you dodged: How did knowledge of god come to our attention without the proof of his existence attached to it? Explain this to me please. Seems like something of that nature can only happen in one's imaginaton, or a fairy tale, correct? If I'm not corret can you show me how I'm wrong? And please, actually SHOW ME how I'm wrong instead of pointing out how I'm breaking the "rules of debating". :lol:

There are no rules. You act like I'm not worthy of talking to just because I'm not following your standard of how a debate should progress. It's so obvious your trying to dodge me. And everyone knows why... ;)

Deity_Slapper

Faith....a belief in (insert individual belief here)...got it now?

Opinions can indeed be wrong. If based on incorrect facts. It can be my opinion that 2 + 2 = 5. Doesn't mean my opinion is correct now does it? Or to argue the opposite way...if opinion can't be wrong....and it's an opinion of a large group of people that God exists...then BY YOUR DEFINITION...God exists. So then why are you arguing? Either way you argue that you come out wrong.

Your heart and intuition notwithstanding...words have specific meanings. It would be a bizarre world indeed if we all created our own definitions.

Sorry but ad hominem attacks are the opposite of outshining....you haven't made any points still. Just insults. :roll:

You have yet to be correct....so pick any post of yours. Your entire atttempt at discussion is to push your agenda. Facts or definitions get in the way....change the facts and definitions. Unfortunately, that doesn't really work. Most people can see through your dodge attempts.

No....those I deem unworthy to debate are those that use insults....not logic. ;)

I dodged nothing...you didn't ask me that question.....as for that answer...I've never claimed to be a theologian. Perhaps at one time the relationship was different. I won't begin to conjecture that.

Now how about that proof I asked for...or are you dodging?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

And no....I don't have to prove a thing.

Deity_Slapper

^^^ By the way, that's a cop-out. You say you don't have to prove anything because you can't. And instead of admitting you're wrong, you just put your nose in the air and say, "Well I don't have to! Hmmph!" How old are you? :lol:

No son...I don't have to prove anything because I didn't make a statement to prove. You did.....and instead of offering proof you use another ad hominem attack.

They don't really add to your cause....they just make people reading your posts shake their head.

For the third time DS...stop dodging and provide your proof.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Thank you for finally admitting you have no proof.:lol:

And no....I don't have to prove a thing. I made no absolute statements in regard to this question. You have however...but you said you can't prove your statement. /thread.

Deity_Slapper

I never claimed that I had any. You're making up things. But for the 5th time, LJS, explain to me what I've been asking you about complexity needing to be created, therefore making god himself a creation of a more complex creator, and so on. C'mon now, stop dodging...it doesn't look good.

Why should I explain your theory? That's for you to do.:|

Faith....a belief in (insert individual belief here)...got it now?LJS9502_basic

I knew that already. I thought you were going to have some elaborate, deep explanation, you know, since you claimed I had no idea what faith is - even though I have explained what it is on a number of occasions. I guess you just can't stop trying to make me look stupid to others. Not like they'll believe it anyway. So you're wasting your time with that.

Opinions can indeed be wrong. If based on incorrect facts. It can be my opinion that 2 + 2 = 5. Doesn't mean my opinion is correct now does it? Or to argue the opposite way...if opinion can't be wrong....and it's an opinion of a large group of people that God exists...then BY YOUR DEFINITION...God exists. So then why are you arguing? Either way you argue that you come out wrong.LJS9502_basic

If 2+2=5 to you, then it is correct to you. TO YOU. You can feel however you want, it's just that others might not be so eager to side with you. Whatever though. And yes, by my definition, god does exist in the minds of many. It's right to them, just as it is right to you. You agree don't you?

Although, going by your logic of, "opinion being wrong if based on incorrect facts" (which makes no sense, because if something is incorrect, it couldn't be a fact, but anyway, I'll attempt to humor you)...then god existing is wrong since it's based on complete lack of facts...and a complete lack of facts is just as incorrect as having "incorrect facts", since being illogical is incorrect, and it's illogical to believe in that which is accompanied by a complete lack of facts.

Sorry but ad hominem attacks are the opposite of outshining....you haven't made any points still. Just insults. :roll: LJS9502_basic

Where are the insults? I have not called you one name yet. I have not called you stupid or anything like that. Saying I'm insulting you is a flat-out lie. If I was insulting people, don't you think I'd have been banned by now, with Gamespots' super strict TOS? The fact that I'm still around proves that I have not been insulting you.

You have yet to be correct....so pick any post of yours. Your entire atttempt at discussion is to push your agenda. Facts or definitions get in the way....change the facts and definitions. Unfortunately, that doesn't really work. Most people can see through your dodge attempts. LJS9502_basic

This is a reflection of your own behavior actually. You've dodged my questions numerous times, and make empty excuses as to why.

Now how about that proof I asked for...or are you dodging?

LJS9502_basic

What are you talking about? The proof that god doesn't exist? Scroll up a couple posts and you'll see I already explained it's impossible to disprove what has yet to be proven.

I'll say it again - I'm not trying to disprove god. That's the equivalent of trying to disprove unicorns. I am simply posting my own personal reasons why belief in god is irrational, as it is based solely on faith and wishful thinking. Wouldn't you think people were silly if they believed in minotaurs even though nobody has yet to witness one? Same thing with god. People only believe in god because of the fear and threats of punishment attached to it.

No son...I don't have to prove anything because I didn't make a statement to prove. You did.....and instead of offering proof you use another ad hominem attack.

They don't really add to your cause....they just make people reading your posts shake their head.

For the third time DS...stop dodging and provide your proof.

LJS9502_basic

Stop saying "ad hominen", crap that's annoying. I asked you to provide your proof of god existing since you have made ABSOLUTE STATEMENTS that he does indeed exist.

People reading my posts are most likely shaking their head...up and down. Or not at all. Maybe side to side? Who cares. I expect some people to disagree anyway. We're all different and that's cool. But if it makes you feel better to have your little army of supporters behind you, then by all means line 'em up and show 'em off. Personally, I like to stand alone.

Why should I explain your theory? That's for you to do.:|

LJS9502_basic

I wanted you to give me your thoughts on it. Why is that so hard to do? No proof, just your thoughts. I'm curious.

Still waiting for your thoughts, LJS. Your thoughts on what I've brought up 6 times now about complexity needing to be created. It doesn't have to be an arguement, I'm just curious to hear WHY you believe what you do. Or any christian, it doesn't have to be LJS.

Still waiting for your thoughts, LJS. Your thoughts on what I've brought up 6 times now about complexity needing to be created. It doesn't have to be an arguement, I'm just curious to hear WHY you believe what you do. Or any christian, it doesn't have to be LJS.

Deity_Slapper

Can you elaborate on your question? I didn't understand it.

Can you elaborate on your question? I didn't understand it.

MFaraz_Hayat

Ok, I was trying to get LJS to explain to me why he believes that the world is too complex to have just been here, thus he believes that it was created by "god". I just wanted to know why he would believe that, when logically, it would mean god is also just as complex or even more so. And if the world is too complex to have just always been here, then god is also too complex to have just always been there. If the earth needed to have been created, then so must have god. If god has always been there, then it's plausible that the earth has just always been here.

I didn't want to argue with him, but he just couldn't answer me for whatever reason. So, any christian, please tell me why you believe that the earth was created by god (for the reason being because it's so complex), yet your even more complex god has always just been there. Why would you believe that? I want to know why christians believe this is spite of the fact that it completely clashes with the logic they are attempting to display.