I want OT's opinion on modern feminism.

Exactly, causes a bunch of men to whine about women fighting to improve their way of life. This thread and site is a sad example of such things. People need to get out the basement and see the real world for once. Stop being so butthurt all the time. Whether its feminism, race, religion, politics, games, movies, etc...people are too whiny nowadays.

Who complains most about these things? Dudes with no life, and fuckin old people out of touch with reality.

@mrbojangles25: they literally didn't sign a law that tell women what they can and cannot do with bodies.

I guess that just makes their opinions invalid, cuz after all they were born the wrong way to have and opinion.

Going down the line I'm seeing people calling feminism ridiculous, a hate movement, and a couple claims of it being literal cancer among other things, but yeah I'm the only one.

The word "angry" describes you rather accurately. If you prefer we can knock it down to "bitter", I wouldn't go much further than that though.

Are you one of the people who hates Milo Yiannopoulos? Harder to get angrier than that if you can't even tell humor from serious statements.

Muh-soggy-Knee

It most definitely is in a most ways. Not so sure now, with Brexit and the direction it's heading but then again we are both heading that way.

Sorry for getting carried away in my previous post, btw lol.

@mrbojangles25: what you described doesn't happen in the UK, it's not unusual for a woman to be the main bread with bread winner in a relationship.

Abortion is legal, pay is eqaul etc.

I'm not sure what more rights they want.

We're talking about modern third wave feminism that's filled with whiny millennial and mostly white women who bash men, claim they're all sexists, call them rapists, and try to convince people that the West is a patriarchy. They act like they're oppressed when women across lesser developed parts of the world actually suffer oppression. They can't be taken seriously. From what I've seen and heard of third wave feminism, it is ridiculous and it is in hate movement territory.

In the US not so much; legally, women get paid as much as men, but in practice they do not. You might read the occasional study saying "it's a myth" because publishing the occasional piece that runs contrary sells, but the hundreds of other studies, dozens of personal examples I know of, and likely millions of actual examples out there say otherwise.

Culturally, the US is not all that progressive; women's careers generally take a backseat when it comes to families, while men's careers always get the priority, even when it's not pragmatic (i.e. if the woman makes more money than the man, the man will still work, because "it is emasculating for the man to stay at home").

I'm talking in actual families with kids; with young couples that are simply dating, it's a little different. Things are often not long term, and it's not unheard of for a well-off businesswoman to date, idunno, an artist or something.

I'm glad the UK is progressive enough to allow women to be equals.

Wait, wait, wait. So a white dude complains about something being wrong for minorities, or a straight dude tries to fix things for gays.

People then reply, "stop being a white knight and trying to fix things on behalf of other poeople. If they have a problem they should champion th cause."

But, at the same time, feminists aren't serving a noble purpose for not fighting for the rights of women in the middle east? As a feminist who DOESN'T live in the middle east, what exactly am I to do here?

@MrGeezer: Just be a coward and do nothing but complain about what others do. You know, the great American way.

@MrGeezer: As a feminist you could stop saying shit like "oh, it's their culture, stop being racist/prejudice/bigoted (pick a word)". That would be a nice start.

iandizion713 gets it.

@mrbojangles25:

"In the US not so much; legally, women get paid as much as men, but in practice they do not. You might read the occasional study saying "it's a myth" because publishing the occasional piece that runs contrary sells, but the hundreds of other studies, dozens of personal examples I know of, and likely millions of actual examples out there say otherwise."

It is a myth. Once you account for hours worked (Women on average work fewer hours than their male counterparts), positions held within a field, look at who is more likely to ask for or demand a raise(Men), and it goes on down the line. This video should clear some things up.

"Culturally, the US is not all that progressive; women's careers generally take a backseat when it comes to families, while men's careers always get the priority, even when it's not pragmatic."

The personal choices of families in US is hardly a reason to have a women's rights movement is it. It's their choice and they have the liberty to make it.

"I'm glad the UK is progressive enough to allow women to be equals."

End with snooty self satisfied remark to feel superior.

Just another way to divide woman and men, hopefully it disappears soon

I'm pretty sure he's calling you the coward who's complaining about what other people do, since the "other people" in this scenario are clearly the feminists.

@balrogbane: I'm not from the UK, I'm from the US...not snooty or self-superior, it was self-deprecating and self-loathing in the realization that my own country isn't as great as we all like to think it is.

Granted, it's not as terrible as people think it is, either.

As for "it's their choice", yeah you can argue that, but it's not really much of a choice; cultural and societal pressure can be pretty intense at times, resulting in people feeling like they don't really have a choice despite their individual, independent feelings running contrary. The video also details a more terrible truth when it goes into education, and that is in detailing that women are groomed from a young age to "choose" education and careers that are non-technical, low-paying, and so forth. This is why it's nice to see such a huge push lately for STEM education, women in tech (provided it's not forced, just supported), and so forth. I think if women felt welcome and encouraged into these fields, men would not be so overly represented; I also feel that they are becoming more and more welcomed and encouraged as of late, and we will see that changing in the next decade or two.

And, as I said, most studies than not prove the idea there is a wage gap, and you might find one or two that describe it as a myth. That video came from the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank; I think there is a bit of bias there. The argument of "if there really is a wage gap, wouldn't companies hire only women since it's cheaper?" is a terrible argument; it flies in the face of basic supply and demand. If you start hiring only women, obviously their demand would be higher, so you'd have to pay them more.

No, you keep women only where you need them, and when they do get put into jobs where you have traditional found men (executive jobs, physical labor, construction, technical fields, etc) you make them feel special, and not in a good way.

In my job, we don't get a lot of women; I've been working this kind of job for about 10 years now and I've seen two women in my field, and you have no idea the kind of bullshit they have to endure on a daily basis.

I'm not one of these third wave feminists or white knights, don't mistake me for those; but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that women don't have a battle to fight and everything is OK, that's fucking ignorant.

This is why you can't take the internet seriously. You just came to a safe space and are apparently surprised to have your opinions validated.

@mrbojangles25: ...but you ARE a white knight though...and a beta-cuck aswell.

@linusa: No, the Gamespot forums were always a hostile environment for any non tunnel-visioned leftists.

There seems to be a systemic turning of the tides on political correctness across the internet in general.

Nothing. Leaving aside the fact that your examples don't make any sense, feminism has stopped having a purpose a long time ago. And now, just like any movement without a direction, it just growls at whatever gets its attention.

What would you think of someone who said he's against the punic wars or against war with the German nazis? Anachronistic? Because that's exactly what feminism is right now.

This isn't a safe space since everyone is allowed to voice their opinion. Keep the gibberish terms where they belong.

It's hard to have an opinion....well a credible one...it you have no experience.

I'm a student right now I've had plenty of experience with feminism firsthand at my university and seen the divisive, meaningless movement that it is.

I may or may not have caught on to what you did there. Im gonna assume I did, and say good(accurate) one.

Do tell. All I hear is the stories that travel across the pond. I hope the majority aren't like those.

That makes perfect sense.

Put me in as another vote for Femenism is cancer.

Great, then let's never talk about anything else ever again. Sounds, uh, fun?

Are you admitting to having no experience in anything? That would explain a lot.

Judging by the posts of people who support feminism you'd think there was a majority of feminists who "aren't like those". They never seem to do anything worth noticing however, while their supposedly "vocal minority" does all the bad things that give feminism a bad name.

See? You should've kept your mouth closed. Even a third grader would call your insults childish.

It's not an insult, its an observation of what you said. He said to not talk about things you have no experience with, and you responded by saying that means you shouldn't talk about anything. So what you said was that you see yourself as having no experience in anything.

I don't necessarily agree that people need experience to have an understanding of something, but your response was unintentionally hilarious.

Women's rights are human rights, but hey that's just me.

@horgen: Well one event that really stuck out to me was when every student at my school had to community service as part of a humanities or something. And the organizer was a raging intersectional feminist and made it to where if you were a male you had to do 3 more hours than the women in order to get the same credit. And then she proceeded to make you do 2 more hours if you were white as well. She got away with it to because it was her class.

That pretty much cemented my feeling on feminism and intersectional social justice movements. All they do is separate people.

Again you try to sound smart but end up falling flat on your face on the floor. Talking requires at least two people, and if as LJ wa suggesting we'd only talk if we had enough experience of an argument we wouldn't be talking at all since the chance of two people having "enough" knowledge to form an opinion on a given argument would be near zero, leading to an impasse.

My argument is what you'd call "reductio ad absurdum" if you had any experience with logic terminology, and it was to say that his suggestion was fucking stupid.

It's only "uninentionally hilarious" because it flew over your head.

No what he said was very clear, don't talk about something if you don't have any experience in that subject. So if you interpret meaning you can't talk about anything then you must think you have no experience in anything.

Saying talking requires two people is stupid since you don't have to be that second person. Finding at least two people that have experience in any subject is extremely easy. Finding a subject someone could talk to you about however would be near zero.

I almost completely agree. There are modern examples of sexism in Western society, yes. But they're minimal compared to those in other cultures and countries, especially the Middle East and South Asia. But instead modern feminists focus on trigger warnings, safe spaces and making sure there's not too much rape in fantasy TV shows.

My grandparents are from Lebanon, and my mother still believes to this day that if she was born in the Middle-East, she'd been killed before she hit 20 because of how much she speaks her mind. Not that most American feminists would even know where Lebanon is, let alone what women there go through.

Uh, yes? That's what makes this a safe space.

See above. People can say whatever they want, but the people here are going to say what you want. This isn't a random selection of opinions here.

Until what gender you're born as has little consequence/effect on your life choices and results, I think the true feminist society remains out of reach.

Just because other countries are terrible, it doesn't excuse injustices in other places. If the unemployment rate in your country is 15%, do you feel content in saying "unemployment in Liberia is 85%, so we shouldn't do anything about it"?

Gender inequality is undesirable no matter how much of it there is and where it is.

I didn't say it isn't. I said the hypocrisy irritates me. These (mostly white, WASP) women whine about trigger warnings and space safes and mansplaining like each incident is the equivalent of a poison dart. I get that sexism and inequality exists in the West. I also understand that it's very possible to shrug these incidents away and move on without crying to Twitter about everytime a human who possesses a penis looks at you for one too many seconds.

When a previous season of Game of Thrones came out, everyone in my work circles blew up like it was the apocalypse. They're able to be vocal about fictional rape in a fantasy world, but are almost dead silent when it comes to how many women actually go through that in the real world. But I guess it's easy to live in an enclave when your parents paid for your university fees.

Forgive me if I missed something, but I don't see the hypocrisy? Because they were disgusted at a rape scene in a Game of Thrones episode doesn't seemingly imply that they would be okay with rape in other contexts.

The hypocrisy about only being vocal about rape in fiction and calling the show runners misogynistic, refusing to run articles about the show for it's sexism (like the Mary Sue did) and how it contributes to problems in society, and being silent about the real victims and acts of rape, FGM, etc, that's so widespread today. They're only activists at stopping supposed sexism when it's portrayed on-screen and not breathing a word when it comes to incidents that, ya know, exist in reality and actually matter.

One of the actors involved in the scene even told the people complaining about the scene to re-direct their attention to where it should be focused, so I'm far from only one.

Feminism is great. Places like the middle east needs it.

Oh... feminism in the west? Nvm then, that movement is getting increasingly irrational.

A safe space is a place intended to be free of conflict or criticism. You could have all your feminist friends sign up, come here and start flaming everyone, and nobody could do anything about it, because this is a public forum and it is not intended to be free of conflict or criticism. In fact the most popular board here, System Wars, is the reason why half the people on GS are on GS, and it has conflict in its own name.

If this were a safe space we wouldn't be allowed to talk about Trump or feminism ever.

Indeed, that's precisely why feminism is cancer. Feminists don't really care about fixing inequalities, they just want inequalities to weigh more in their favor. For example, since you and ShadowsDemon are speaking about rape, feminists should be absolutely outraged at false rape accusations and wouldn't jump on bandwagons every time a popular woman claimed she was raped by accusing his rapist on fucking twitter, yet that is precisely the opposite of what they do.

As far as other "gender inequality" problems are concerned I still haven't seen a solid example of what feminists really want to focus on. Mostly it is nonsense such as the gender pay gap or not enough women in STEM fields, both of which are fucking idiotic topics to protest if not downright dishonest.

@N30F3N1X: Who said anything about me having feminist friends? I was pointing out the flaw of being surprised when your online echo chamber agrees with you. Anyway, didn't mean to offend you about your safe space. Sorry, not "safe space", just an echo chamber filled with people who agree with you.

I didn't say you had feminist friends. It was a hypothetical.

You didn't offend me. The off-topic board was full of leftists up until a couple months ago, so calling this safe space or echo chamber for people who dislike feminism means you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. You're not just saying something incorrect, you're saying something that is plain dishonest and wrongly accusatory.