I want to believe in heaven

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mindstorm

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#151 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="CrippledLilRata"]Then why don't you believe? It's not too late...theone86

No, it's too early.

And wouldn't god know if you were only believing in him because you were afraid of death?

The penalty for sin is death and seeking after redemption through Christ is not a wrong reason to pursue him. Certainly our love of him is to be our ultimate drive in seeking him, but there is nothing wrong with one who needs redemption seeking a redeemer.
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theone86

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#152 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="CrippledLilRata"]Then why don't you believe? It's not too late...mindstorm

No, it's too early.

And wouldn't god know if you were only believing in him because you were afraid of death?

The penalty for sin is death and seeking after redemption through Christ is not a wrong reason to pursue him. Certainly our love of him is to be our ultimate drive in seeking him, but there is nothing wrong with one who needs redemption seeking a redeemer.

So if I repent on my deathbed because I'm suddenly afraid of death I get to be bunk buddies with you for eternity?

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theone86

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#153 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

[QUOTE="XileLord"]

I want to exist after death too! But then I realized.....if I was dead I wouldn't really care anyways because I would be dead thus not existing thus it wouldn't matter. What's wrong with not existing anyways? It's not like you could hate it.

dontshackzmii

thats a pretty awful way at looking at it.

Why?

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deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d

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#154 deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d
Member since 2005 • 7914 Posts
I concider myself a christian because I like jesus christ. I'm say it like an athiest; heaven doesn't exist. heaven refered to the above sky of earth. in modern terms heaven = universe. It's space stars all kinds of matter up there in heaven. I'm say it like a christian; believe in the ressurection. God seperates the soul and spirit. the soul goes to heaven like the book says. the spirit goes to hell like the book says. God will then judge who to reborn and reunite their soul and spirit. for the mean time before judgement day. everyone is good as dead. sleeping in hell. im talking bout athiests and christian so freely because i dont go with the bias truth but the highest truth oooohhhhhhh eat it doubters lol hey life is fun
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dontshackzmii

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#155 dontshackzmii
Member since 2009 • 6026 Posts

[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]

[QUOTE="XileLord"]

I want to exist after death too! But then I realized.....if I was dead I wouldn't really care anyways because I would be dead thus not existing thus it wouldn't matter. What's wrong with not existing anyways? It's not like you could hate it.

theone86

thats a pretty awful way at looking at it.

Why?

he said i want there to be a afterlife but then goes on to say i wont care cus im dead. Yeah but you care now! you don't know what its like to be dead haaha

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mindstorm

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#156 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

So if I repent on my deathbed because I'm suddenly afraid of death I get to be bunk buddies with you for eternity?

theone86

There is a difference between genuinely seeking Christ because of one's need for a savior and seeking Christ merely because of the possibility of a convenience. In other words, one can indeed be saved on one's deathbed. However, claiming Christ does not mean one knows Christ.

This is not to say that I'm against being "bunk buddies." /gives awkward Christian side hug.

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theone86

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#157 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

[QUOTE="theone86"]So if I repent on my deathbed because I'm suddenly afraid of death I get to be bunk buddies with you for eternity?

mindstorm

There is a difference between genuinely seeking Christ because of one's need for a savior and seeking Christ merely because of the possibility of a convenience. In other words, one can indeed be saved on one's deathbed. However, claiming Christ does not mean one knows Christ.

This is not to say that I'm against being "bunk buddies." /gives awkward Christian side hug.

But, I mean, that's what I'm saying, if someone did not believe at all in god and did not like religion at all, but was simply afraid of dying and repented simply for that fact, would they go to heaven?

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deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d

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#158 deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d
Member since 2005 • 7914 Posts
if someone didnt believe in god their whole life. what they gonna do when they die? grab their balls hoping they can save themself? lol theone66 i understand what you saying. it's natural to be afraid of death because it is what it is you do not come back. The question is when you die who you gonna repent to? imagine it all being over. your certain everything is about to black out and you will seize to exist. its natural to cry and repent to something. it depends to what you repent to. a person, an object, an idea? or everything as a whole, repent to the whole universe, god.
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mindstorm

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#159 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

But, I mean, that's what I'm saying, if someone did not believe at all in god and did not like religion at all, but was simply afraid of dying and repented simply for that fact, would they go to heaven?

theone86


To be honest, it's really hard to say. I do not really have much of a desire figure out the bare minimum that would suffice for being a Christian. I don't like minimum commitments and Jesus apparently doesn't either as seen from a lot of "total surrender" terminology seen throughout Scripture.

I'm of the belief that if one is justified before God (made within right relationship before him) then there is without exception going to be both sanctification (growing in Christ) and glorification (the resurrection of the death at the return of Christ). This is even true for even the shortest of Christian lives. If one comes to know Christ in only the last moments of one's life then there will even then be a changed and sanctified heart.

What is a sanctified Christian do? The book of 1 John gives some examples: Practice truth/righteousness (1:6; 2:29; 3:7, 10), walk in the light/as he walked (1:7; 2:6), confess sins and have forgiveness (1:9; 2:12), keep/obey his commandments/Word (2:3, 5; 3:22, 24; 5:2, 3), love one another/the brothers (2:10; 3:10, 11, 14, 16, 18, 23; 4:7, 11, 21), overcome the evil one/themselves/the world (2:13, 14; 4:4; 5:4), do the will of God/cannot keep on sinning (2:17; 3:9, 22), and confess the Son/believe in Jesus (2:23; 3:23; 4:2, 15; 5:1, 4, 13).

If one is willing to bet one's eternal security merely on a last ditch effort to save one's spiritual life then go for it. However, there is so much life, joy, and peace in Christ on this side of eternity.

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tepni

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#160 tepni
Member since 2008 • 3214 Posts
[QUOTE="playmynutz"]if someone didnt believe in god their whole life. what they gonna do when they die? grab their balls hoping they can save themself? lol theone66 i understand what you saying. it's natural to be afraid of death because it is what it is you do not come back. The question is when you die who you gonna repent to? imagine it all being over. your certain everything is about to black out and you will seize to exist. its natural to cry and repent to something. it depends to what you repent to. a person, an object, an idea? or everything as a whole, repent to the whole universe, god.

Wait if heaven turns out to be real, and I had been an atheist my whole life, and done nothing bad, I DON'T get into heaven? WHAT?
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branketra

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#161 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts
[QUOTE="tepni"][QUOTE="playmynutz"]if someone didnt believe in god their whole life. what they gonna do when they die? grab their balls hoping they can save themself? lol theone66 i understand what you saying. it's natural to be afraid of death because it is what it is you do not come back. The question is when you die who you gonna repent to? imagine it all being over. your certain everything is about to black out and you will seize to exist. its natural to cry and repent to something. it depends to what you repent to. a person, an object, an idea? or everything as a whole, repent to the whole universe, god.

Wait if heaven turns out to be real, and I had been an atheist my whole life, and done nothing bad, I DON'T get into heaven? WHAT?

Nope. You have to earn it. At least, that's what all the religions I've studied say.
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mindstorm

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#162 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts
[QUOTE="tepni"][QUOTE="playmynutz"]if someone didnt believe in god their whole life. what they gonna do when they die? grab their balls hoping they can save themself? lol theone66 i understand what you saying. it's natural to be afraid of death because it is what it is you do not come back. The question is when you die who you gonna repent to? imagine it all being over. your certain everything is about to black out and you will seize to exist. its natural to cry and repent to something. it depends to what you repent to. a person, an object, an idea? or everything as a whole, repent to the whole universe, god.

Wait if heaven turns out to be real, and I had been an atheist my whole life, and done nothing bad, I DON'T get into heaven? WHAT?

If one does nothing bad or wrong in this life then he has indeed earned a place in heaven. However, who but Jesus has lived such a life? Before one can understand redemption, one must understand humanity's depravity. Before one can understand humanity's depravity, one must understand God's holiness.
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theone86

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#163 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

[QUOTE="tepni"][QUOTE="playmynutz"]if someone didnt believe in god their whole life. what they gonna do when they die? grab their balls hoping they can save themself? lol theone66 i understand what you saying. it's natural to be afraid of death because it is what it is you do not come back. The question is when you die who you gonna repent to? imagine it all being over. your certain everything is about to black out and you will seize to exist. its natural to cry and repent to something. it depends to what you repent to. a person, an object, an idea? or everything as a whole, repent to the whole universe, god.mindstorm
Wait if heaven turns out to be real, and I had been an atheist my whole life, and done nothing bad, I DON'T get into heaven? WHAT?

If one does nothing bad or wrong in this life then he has indeed earned a place in heaven. However, who but Jesus has lived such a life? Before one can understand redemption, one must understand humanity's depravity. Before one can understand humanity's depravity, one must understand God's holiness.

I have.

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mindstorm

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#164 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]If one does nothing bad or wrong in this life then he has indeed earned a place in heaven. However, who but Jesus has lived such a life? Before one can understand redemption, one must understand humanity's depravity. Before one can understand humanity's depravity, one must understand God's holiness.theone86

I have.

This response reminds me of a passage from 1 John 1:5-10. [5] This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. [6] If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. [7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. [8] If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
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theone86

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#165 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]If one does nothing bad or wrong in this life then he has indeed earned a place in heaven. However, who but Jesus has lived such a life? Before one can understand redemption, one must understand humanity's depravity. Before one can understand humanity's depravity, one must understand God's holiness.mindstorm

I have.

This response reminds me of a passage from 1 John 1:5-10. [5] This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. [6] If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. [7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. [8] If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

How do you know I'm lying?

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tepni

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#166 tepni
Member since 2008 • 3214 Posts
[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="tepni"][QUOTE="playmynutz"]if someone didnt believe in god their whole life. what they gonna do when they die? grab their balls hoping they can save themself? lol theone66 i understand what you saying. it's natural to be afraid of death because it is what it is you do not come back. The question is when you die who you gonna repent to? imagine it all being over. your certain everything is about to black out and you will seize to exist. its natural to cry and repent to something. it depends to what you repent to. a person, an object, an idea? or everything as a whole, repent to the whole universe, god.

Wait if heaven turns out to be real, and I had been an atheist my whole life, and done nothing bad, I DON'T get into heaven? WHAT?

Nope. You have to earn it. At least, that's what all the religions I've studied say.

Welll...that's not fair.... But what if...aw c'mon!!! God should understand that people are going to have their doubts! I mean he can't expect all of us to just believe in him.
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theone86

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#167 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="tepni"] Wait if heaven turns out to be real, and I had been an atheist my whole life, and done nothing bad, I DON'T get into heaven? WHAT? tepni
Nope. You have to earn it. At least, that's what all the religions I've studied say.

Welll...that's not fair.... But what if...aw c'mon!!! God should understand that people are going to have their doubts! I mean he can't expect all of us to just believe in him.

That's basically what I've been saying for a while now.

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mindstorm

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#168 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts
How do you know I'm lying?theone86
There exists no man apart from Jesus Christ who is as pure, as holy, as good, as righteous, as just, as infinitely powerful as God himself. To claim to be without sin is to claim to be of divine birth like that of Jesus' virgin birth, to claim to be completely selfless to the point of death on a cross, to be as miraculous as being capable of raising from the dead. There exists not one who is as perfect and holy as Jesus Christ. If I might be perhaps more blunt that I normally am on these forums, this is why I claim that your statement is a lie. The only other explanation is that we are arguing against completely different points and there is a misunderstanding taking place.
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theone86

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#169 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

[QUOTE="theone86"]How do you know I'm lying?mindstorm
There exists no man apart from Jesus Christ who is as pure, as holy, as good, as righteous, as just, as infinitely powerful as God himself. To claim to be without sin is to claim to be of divine birth like that of Jesus' virgin birth, to claim to be completely selfless to the point of death on a cross, to be as miraculous as being capable of raising from the dead. There exists not one who is as perfect and holy as Jesus Christ. If I might be perhaps more blunt that I normally am on these forums, this is why I claim that your statement is a lie. The only other explanation is that we are arguing against completely different points and there is a misunderstanding taking place.

But Christ will someday return, right? Perhaps I am him.

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mindstorm

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#170 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

But Christ will someday return, right? Perhaps I am him.

theone86

As the return of Christ will be the same way he left as according to Acts 1, I doubt it. However, if you are of Christ then you could, in a sense, say that you are him as you represent him to the world - but that's a different point than you are making. :P

There is also the point that with his return he will not be alone. The kingdom of heaven itself will descend with him. Where is your kingdom? :P

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branketra

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#171 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts
[QUOTE="tepni"][QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="tepni"] Wait if heaven turns out to be real, and I had been an atheist my whole life, and done nothing bad, I DON'T get into heaven? WHAT?

Nope. You have to earn it. At least, that's what all the religions I've studied say.

Welll...that's not fair.... But what if...aw c'mon!!! God should understand that people are going to have their doubts! I mean he can't expect all of us to just believe in him.

Well, it depends on the religion.
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PS2_ROCKS

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#172 PS2_ROCKS
Member since 2003 • 4679 Posts
[QUOTE="tepni"][QUOTE="playmynutz"]if someone didnt believe in god their whole life. what they gonna do when they die? grab their balls hoping they can save themself? lol theone66 i understand what you saying. it's natural to be afraid of death because it is what it is you do not come back. The question is when you die who you gonna repent to? imagine it all being over. your certain everything is about to black out and you will seize to exist. its natural to cry and repent to something. it depends to what you repent to. a person, an object, an idea? or everything as a whole, repent to the whole universe, god.

Wait if heaven turns out to be real, and I had been an atheist my whole life, and done nothing bad, I DON'T get into heaven? WHAT?

John 12: 44 Then Jesus cried out, "Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. Essentially we are all born into sin. No one can just go through life "doing no evil" or "being good" and expect a place in heaven without acknowledging God. You must accept the Jesus as your savior and believe God sent him. This is why religion depends on faith. It's all about your own faith in God. That's the first step at least.
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deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d

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#173 deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d
Member since 2005 • 7914 Posts

well if you haven't harmed anyone or yourself and you showed love to everyone. and still dont believe in god. thats like taking credit for good and thats why you can't go your whole life without acknowledging their is a greater power than one self would you be happy if you where a firefighter and saved a life but the guy across the street took credit for it?

ps2 guy...i didnt catch ur full username lol

you took the words right out of my mouth AND included a bible verse. i see u god(u know i mean i see you doing good and not actually calling u a god)

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halokillerz

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#174 halokillerz
Member since 2004 • 3406 Posts

I like the idea of heaven, because I am scared of dying.

I rather believe than be this scared.

Have any of you felt like this before?

There was a thread on here, "are you afraid of death?", and a lot a lot of you said no.

I think about it a lot and I do not like the thought of nothingness. ;_;

tepni
I've been so scared that i wanted to believe before, but then i reason with myself by telling myself that instead of just hoping, go do something. So far i haven't got much accomplished, but im trying....sorta.....*goes to play dark souls*
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deactivated-59913425220eb

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#175 deactivated-59913425220eb
Member since 2002 • 1772 Posts
Humans aren't meant to die, it's not what god intended for us. Because the soul is what matters, it's what IS a person the soul never dies. the question is not whether that soul will live forever, but whether it will live forever with God or without God. That is the purpose of all humanity to praise and love God.
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#176 deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d
Member since 2005 • 7914 Posts
halokillerz you can learn a lot from dark souls. you know that ring that lets you keep all your souls when you die in dark soul? thats jesus christ in real life. its as simple as putting on the ring. but if you forget and you fall off a cliff, those souls are gone. but in real life theres no bonfire :P
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halokillerz

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#177 halokillerz
Member since 2004 • 3406 Posts
halokillerz you can learn a lot from dark souls. you know that ring that lets you keep all your souls when you die in dark soul? thats jesus christ in real life. its as simple as putting on the ring. but if you forget and you fall off a cliff, those souls are gone. but in real life theres no bonfire :Pplaymynutz
lol bravo, that was a nice metaphor
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EntropyWins

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#178 EntropyWins
Member since 2010 • 1209 Posts

I want to believe in other minds, but sensory information is too unreliable :(

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tocool340

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#179 tocool340
Member since 2004 • 21697 Posts

No I don't fear death. I just consider it a dreamless sleep. Besides, even though I'm an Atheist, I don't consider death to be the end of all things. Energy is never destroyed, just recreated into different forms and redistributed across nature. I'm sure we will all meet again in a different lifetime...

Besides, Heaven sounds like a place no different than hell, full of people that believe their prejudice against other human beings are justified. If homosexuals are allowed to roam heaven, I doubt those who lived their lives disliking homosexuality will just up an accept it. Same goes for racism and other forms of prejudice. I'd rather not exist than put up with it for an eternity. Beteen heaven and hell. I'd choose hell. At least I know I'm already at the bottom so I wouldn't have to worry about falling from the top...

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Rikusaki

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#180 Rikusaki
Member since 2006 • 16641 Posts

I want to believe in heaven too, but I can't because I'm Atheist.

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BlackHawk340

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#181 BlackHawk340
Member since 2006 • 4418 Posts

I am not afraid of going to sleep and knowing i will not dream.

thats how i see it.

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tepni

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#182 tepni
Member since 2008 • 3214 Posts

I am not afraid of going to sleep and knowing i will not dream.

thats how i see it.

BlackHawk340
That's a more comforting way to look at it I guess.
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ultimameteora

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#183 ultimameteora
Member since 2003 • 2573 Posts

I like the idea of heaven, because I am scared of dying.

I rather believe than be this scared.

Have any of you felt like this before?

There was a thread on here, "are you afraid of death?", and a lot a lot of you said no.

I think about it a lot and I do not like the thought of nothingness. ;_;

tepni
You should research the Baha'i view of heaven and hell.
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LustForSoul

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#184 LustForSoul
Member since 2011 • 6404 Posts

When you don't exist, you can't care. Just enjoy your life cycle, if we wouldn't die there would be overpopulation. We'd all starve.

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Mordred19

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#185 Mordred19
Member since 2007 • 8259 Posts

Humans aren't meant to die, it's not what god intended for us. Because the soul is what matters, it's what IS a person the soul never dies. the question is not whether that soul will live forever, but whether it will live forever with God or without God. That is the purpose of all humanity to praise and love God.GameGuy642003

then I'm curious about what birth is. creation of new life as lives end. makes the whole thing seem pretty natural to me.

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deactivated-59913425220eb

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#186 deactivated-59913425220eb
Member since 2002 • 1772 Posts

[QUOTE="GameGuy642003"]Humans aren't meant to die, it's not what god intended for us. Because the soul is what matters, it's what IS a person the soul never dies. the question is not whether that soul will live forever, but whether it will live forever with God or without God. That is the purpose of all humanity to praise and love God.Mordred19

then I'm curious about what birth is. creation of new life as lives end. makes the whole thing seem pretty natural to me.

yes yes exactly, that is a good question isn't it. Why did God create us if we all naturally die, if we weren't meant to die than why did he make us and our normal life-span. At least thats what I think your asking.
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Suzy_Q_Kazoo

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#187 Suzy_Q_Kazoo
Member since 2010 • 9899 Posts

Time is better spent doing other things than pondering death and what comes after it. I mean you can't do anything about it, and nobody will ever know for sure, so why focus on it so much?

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#188 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

I do hope Heaven is real, too. But it doesn't make me scared of death anymore than I already am.

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Clydefrog92

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#189 Clydefrog92
Member since 2008 • 173 Posts
I'm an atheist so my God doesn't allow me to believe in it
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alexside1

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#190 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

I am not afraid of going to sleep and knowing i will not dream.

thats how i see it.

BlackHawk340
I don't view dying as "going to sleep"
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Darksonic666

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#191 Darksonic666
Member since 2009 • 3482 Posts
Yes I am afraid of dying because a part of me believes that if I die it will all end but my mother told me that she doesn't believe that we simply just fade away and that our souls will live on or be recycled in a way or we may go to heaven I don't believe we do but who really knows but I do not believe that we fade away into nothingness we do go somewhere after we die and we all just have to wait and find out what happens but while we are alive we should try to make our lives now heaven enjoy every minute of it as much as we can and not worry since its going to happen eventually.
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Pikdum

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#192 Pikdum
Member since 2010 • 2244 Posts

[QUOTE="BlackHawk340"]

I am not afraid of going to sleep and knowing i will not dream.

thats how i see it.

alexside1

I don't view dying as "going to sleep"

View it as going to sleep forever. Except without dreams.

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dontshackzmii

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#193 dontshackzmii
Member since 2009 • 6026 Posts

I want to believe in heaven too, but I can't because I'm Atheist.

Rikusaki

not can't wont