[QUOTE="LordQuorthon"][QUOTE="lonewolf604"]To me, that's the same as saying, if there was a cure for being black. Tetrarch9
Or left-handed.Â
Â
Â
My thoughts exactly people need to get over themselves. Some people like the same sex, deal with it.This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="LordQuorthon"][QUOTE="lonewolf604"]To me, that's the same as saying, if there was a cure for being black. Tetrarch9
Or left-handed.Â
Â
Â
My thoughts exactly people need to get over themselves. Some people like the same sex, deal with it.[QUOTE="Zlurodirom"][QUOTE="curono"]This is a hard one, because it is a trick question. Let's say for sakes of discussion that homosexuallity could be controlled as if it were caused by a single biological thing. 1. You'd have to ask if this "biological cause for homosexuality" is a valid biological diversity or if it is something that requires to be cured, like most wisdom teeth growing just to F#ck your mouth. 1.1. If being gay was cause of a biological disorder, you'd have to ask how much of that conduct is a disorder. Let's say you are in a party, not so sober, and as highly skilled random dude starts doing you a blowjob in the dark. It should feel right, so is that proof that your biology isn't working well? 1.2 If this is a biological "disorder", you'd have to ask if it is something that MUST be cured or if the treatment is optional. Things like flat feet and harmless wisdom teeth can be something people live with with no problem whatsoever. Why should you impose a cure over that special thing? 2. Now, let's say that you are willing to change someone's sexuality. There is a very important question. How will that affect your personality and your own image? Imagine (just to prove a point) that you (straight man) magically become attracted to 40 yr old men. Like raging boner attracted. Think how much your self image would shatter by that drastic change. Would you be happy after realizing that you have changed that much by just a second? Second of all, would you like to have that change, if you are currently living a happy life in your condition?curono
If we develop a "cure" why do we need to worry about it being a biological disorder? As far as I know, wisdom teeth growing in can damage you, while being gay cant physically damage you like wisdom teeth can. Is there something I'm missing?
Is getting a bj from a man that different than getting one from a woman? I don't think it is gay if you are on the receiving end?
That last question you pose is a good one. If I was living a happy life, straight or not, I would not want to change it just because someone deemed I needed something fixed, and that something fixed would not negatively affect me in any way if I didn't change it.
As for your first question, I can answer it with an example. Blue eyes are the "beauty norm". If we could "cure" brown eyes, why worry about it being a biological disorder? Just cure it! Of course that is wrong. If it is not a biological disorder, then acting against homosexuality wouldn't be a cure. It would be the imposition of your moral and social norm, which if taken to an invasive biological action, could very be the equivalent of a forced brainwashing. On the second comment. Having sexual contact with a man isn't gay? Being the receiver or the giver is unimportant. I repeat my question: A form of sex with a man would not be considered gay?When did this blue eye beauty norm start? I understand your point though. What I am saying is that some things can negatively affect our health (illness, wisdom teeth) and we develop vaccines, cures or procedures to minimize the risk. While being gay inherently does not seem to oppose any threat to a person (though rectum widening could be a part of that I suppose). I'm basing the judgements I made on potential inherent harm to the body.
Let me pose you this question. You are making out with a woman at a party. She then unbuttons your pants and starts playing with you, you close your eyes and enjoy the bj. You open your eyes only to discover a man is finishing you off. Are you gay? Honestly I don't think a single act of "acting gay" constitutes someone as gay. I would categorize "gay" as someone who seeks out same sex relations. A specific consenting act with someone of the same sex might be a gay act, but does that make someone gay?
Just my thoughts.
[QUOTE="lostrib"]
[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]
Men can have facial hair.
Pffrbt
well technically so can women
99 times out of 10 WatAs for your first question, I can answer it with an example. Blue eyes are the "beauty norm". If we could "cure" brown eyes, why worry about it being a biological disorder? Just cure it! Of course that is wrong. If it is not a biological disorder, then acting against homosexuality wouldn't be a cure. It would be the imposition of your moral and social norm, which if taken to an invasive biological action, could very be the equivalent of a forced brainwashing. On the second comment. Having sexual contact with a man isn't gay? Being the receiver or the giver is unimportant. I repeat my question: A form of sex with a man would not be considered gay?[QUOTE="curono"][QUOTE="Zlurodirom"]
If we develop a "cure" why do we need to worry about it being a biological disorder? As far as I know, wisdom teeth growing in can damage you, while being gay cant physically damage you like wisdom teeth can. Is there something I'm missing?
Is getting a bj from a man that different than getting one from a woman? I don't think it is gay if you are on the receiving end?
That last question you pose is a good one. If I was living a happy life, straight or not, I would not want to change it just because someone deemed I needed something fixed, and that something fixed would not negatively affect me in any way if I didn't change it.
Zlurodirom
When did this blue eye beauty norm start? I understand your point though. What I am saying is that some things can negatively affect our health (illness, wisdom teeth) and we develop vaccines, cures or procedures to minimize the risk. While being gay inherently does not seem to oppose any threat to a person (though rectum widening could be a part of that I suppose). I'm basing the judgements I made on potential inherent harm to the body.
Let me pose you this question. You are making out with a woman at a party. She then unbuttons your pants and starts playing with you, you close your eyes and enjoy the bj. You open your eyes only to discover a man is finishing you off. Are you gay? Honestly I don't think a single act of "acting gay" constitutes someone as gay. I would categorize "gay" as someone who seeks out same sex relations. A specific consenting act with someone of the same sex might be a gay act, but does that make someone gay?
Just my thoughts.
About the first one, rectal penetration is not necessarily gay. It can very well happen between a male and a female. So that wouldnt't be a point. of "possible harm to the body" About the second one: That might not make you gay, but that is precisely my point. It is a sexuality has not a clear cut line and "curing out" gayness out of you could be debated. Would the "gay cure" give you a near allergic reaction to erotic male contact? Because, if you liked that sexual contact unknowing the possible gay paradigm and afterwards became aware that you like that kind of contact, then the cure would be for all purposes, useless or irrelevant.I'm sure we could be cured of heterosexuality as well, so we can all become the superior bisexual race.Zeviander
lol...I.E the ancient greeks.
Accept it.. It's like forcing my friend to like apples even though he hates them. What the hell do I care if he doesn't like apples or not? It doesn't affect me. Ghost_702But not eating apples is unnatural!
One of my friend's is bi and he claimed that it's better from a man because they have stronger jaws.Is getting a bj from a man that different than getting one from a woman?Â
Zlurodirom
I just don't understand how someone can choose his/her attractions. (To be fair, though, there is a lot I don't understand.)What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
frannkzappa
What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
frannkzappa
can you go gay, right now. just on a whim?
can you just choose to be attracted to the same sex? choose what gives you a boner?
[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]I just don't understand how someone can choose his/her attractions. (To be fair, though, there is a lot I don't understand.)What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
IdioticIcarus
Sure , but it's kinda hard to claim NO ONE has ever chosen to be gay.
Even if it is a choice how does that make homosexuality any less legitimate?
[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]
What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
konvikt_17
can you go gay, right now. just on a whim?
can you just choose to be attracted to the same sex? choose what gives you a boner?
sure, why not? if i felt it would benefit me, or if i met a man i feel strongly about and was attracted to, sure.
I just don't understand how someone can choose his/her attractions. (To be fair, though, there is a lot I don't understand.)[QUOTE="IdioticIcarus"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]
What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
frannkzappa
Sure , but it's kinda hard to claim NO ONE has ever chosen to be gay.
Even if it is a choice how does that make homosexuality any less legitimate?
Oh, I agree with you that even if it were a choice, it wouldn't be any less legitimate. I just don't understand how someone could choose to be gay. I don't have any personal experience with really trying to change my sexuality, but I just doubt anyone can just choose to be a different one. Or at least it doesn't make sense in my head.Mostly implications about the person making the claim. It always seemed apparent to myself that I was straight. I never sat down and said "Do I want to **** men or girls?". The idea that it is a choice for a person to be sexual in one way and not the other could well mean that the person making the statement is bi or gay them self. Obviously nothing wrong with either but I think the number of people who support gay rights who believe it is a choice are...minimal at best and there's nothing healthy about lying to yourself. A lot of the people making the claim will also say that gays are just acting gay for attention which is a pretty shitty thing to say.What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
frannkzappa
[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]Mostly implications about the person making the claim. It always seemed apparent to myself that I was straight. I never sat down and said "Do I want to **** men or girls?". The idea that it is a choice for a person to be sexual in one way and not the other could well mean that the person making the statement is bi or gay them self. Obviously nothing wrong with either but I think the number of people who support gay rights who believe it is a choice are...minimal at best and there's nothing healthy about lying to yourself. A lot of the people making the claim will also say that gays are just acting gay for attention which is a pretty shitty thing to say.What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
Ace6301
It's all a matter of situation. For all you know you just haven't met a man you are attracted to yet.
Mostly implications about the person making the claim. It always seemed apparent to myself that I was straight. I never sat down and said "Do I want to **** men or girls?". The idea that it is a choice for a person to be sexual in one way and not the other could well mean that the person making the statement is bi or gay them self. Obviously nothing wrong with either but I think the number of people who support gay rights who believe it is a choice are...minimal at best and there's nothing healthy about lying to yourself. A lot of the people making the claim will also say that gays are just acting gay for attention which is a pretty shitty thing to say.[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]
What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
frannkzappa
It's all a matter of situation. For all you know you just haven't met a man you are attracted to yet.
I know some pretty good looking guys. Can't say they've ever crossed my mind while I was working out my left arm.[QUOTE="konvikt_17"]
[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]
What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
frannkzappa
can you go gay, right now. just on a whim?
can you just choose to be attracted to the same sex? choose what gives you a boner?
sure, why not? if i felt it would benefit me, or if i met a man i feel strongly about and was attracted to, sure.
but normally its not just only one guy. usually if your gay, your attracted to most men, not just one.
and isnt just choosing to be gay if it benefitted you, wouldnt that be not really gay, but acting gay to reap the benefits?
i mean ive got several man crushes, but i dont get aroused by them.
[QUOTE="frannkzappa"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] Mostly implications about the person making the claim. It always seemed apparent to myself that I was straight. I never sat down and said "Do I want to **** men or girls?". The idea that it is a choice for a person to be sexual in one way and not the other could well mean that the person making the statement is bi or gay them self. Obviously nothing wrong with either but I think the number of people who support gay rights who believe it is a choice are...minimal at best and there's nothing healthy about lying to yourself. A lot of the people making the claim will also say that gays are just acting gay for attention which is a pretty shitty thing to say.Ace6301
It's all a matter of situation. For all you know you just haven't met a man you are attracted to yet.
I know some pretty good looking guys. Can't say they've ever crossed my mind while I was working out my left arm.so physical looks are all that comes into play?
[QUOTE="frannkzappa"][QUOTE="IdioticIcarus"] I just don't understand how someone can choose his/her attractions. (To be fair, though, there is a lot I don't understand.)IdioticIcarus
Sure , but it's kinda hard to claim NO ONE has ever chosen to be gay.
Even if it is a choice how does that make homosexuality any less legitimate?
Oh, I agree with you that even if it were a choice, it wouldn't be any less legitimate. I just don't understand how someone could choose to be gay. I don't have any personal experience with really trying to change my sexuality, but I just doubt anyone can just choose to be a different one. Or at least it doesn't make sense in my head. I'm not sure if people can force themselves to be attracted to certain kinds of people. But I think they can weaken and control their attraction to other kinds of people.Oh, I agree with you that even if it were a choice, it wouldn't be any less legitimate. I just don't understand how someone could choose to be gay. I don't have any personal experience with really trying to change my sexuality, but I just doubt anyone can just choose to be a different one. Or at least it doesn't make sense in my head. I'm not sure if people can force themselves to be attracted to certain kinds of people. But I think they can weaken and control their attraction to other kinds of people.[QUOTE="IdioticIcarus"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]
Sure , but it's kinda hard to claim NO ONE has ever chosen to be gay.
Even if it is a choice how does that make homosexuality any less legitimate?
whipassmt
Why force? It could just be an objective decision.
Mostly implications about the person making the claim. It always seemed apparent to myself that I was straight. I never sat down and said "Do I want to **** men or girls?". The idea that it is a choice for a person to be sexual in one way and not the other could well mean that the person making the statement is bi or gay them self. Obviously nothing wrong with either but I think the number of people who support gay rights who believe it is a choice are...minimal at best and there's nothing healthy about lying to yourself. A lot of the people making the claim will also say that gays are just acting gay for attention which is a pretty shitty thing to say.[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]
What's wrong with homosexuality being a choice?
frannkzappa
It's all a matter of situation. For all you know you just haven't met a man you are attracted to yet.
Even if he did find himself attracted to a man, that doesn't suddenly mean he is gay, does it? And he still didn't choose the attraction, right?I'm not sure if people can force themselves to be attracted to certain kinds of people. But I think they can weaken and control their attraction to other kinds of people.[QUOTE="whipassmt"]
[QUOTE="IdioticIcarus"] Oh, I agree with you that even if it were a choice, it wouldn't be any less legitimate. I just don't understand how someone could choose to be gay. I don't have any personal experience with really trying to change my sexuality, but I just doubt anyone can just choose to be a different one. Or at least it doesn't make sense in my head.frannkzappa
Why force? It could just be an objective decision.
Maybe force was a bad word on my part. Can a person decide to be attracted to certain types of people? I'm not sure, but I do think that, at least to some degree, a person's actions can influence their feelings.[QUOTE="frannkzappa"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] Mostly implications about the person making the claim. It always seemed apparent to myself that I was straight. I never sat down and said "Do I want to **** men or girls?". The idea that it is a choice for a person to be sexual in one way and not the other could well mean that the person making the statement is bi or gay them self. Obviously nothing wrong with either but I think the number of people who support gay rights who believe it is a choice are...minimal at best and there's nothing healthy about lying to yourself. A lot of the people making the claim will also say that gays are just acting gay for attention which is a pretty shitty thing to say.IdioticIcarus
It's all a matter of situation. For all you know you just haven't met a man you are attracted to yet.
Even if he did find himself attracted to a man, that doesn't suddenly mean he is gay, does it? And he still didn't choose the attraction, right?Well opinions are formed from a number of things, not just genetics.
Even if he did find himself attracted to a man, that doesn't suddenly mean he is gay, does it? And he still didn't choose the attraction, right?[QUOTE="IdioticIcarus"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]
It's all a matter of situation. For all you know you just haven't met a man you are attracted to yet.
frannkzappa
Well opinions are formed from a number of things, not just genetics.
I'm very confused. I'm not sure what you're saying here.I know some pretty good looking guys. Can't say they've ever crossed my mind while I was working out my left arm.[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]
It's all a matter of situation. For all you know you just haven't met a man you are attracted to yet.
frannkzappa
so physical looks are all that comes into play?
Physical looks are all that come into play in a purely physical thing. The evidence stands as such: I have put my penis in women who I have very little emotional connection with and I have yet to put my penis in a man despite having known my guy friends for going on 2 decades, which is impressive because I'm only a little over 2 decades old.About the first one, rectal penetration is not necessarily gay. It can very well happen between a male and a female. So that wouldnt't be a point. of "possible harm to the body" About the second one: That might not make you gay, but that is precisely my point. It is a sexuality has not a clear cut line and "curing out" gayness out of you could be debated. Would the "gay cure" give you a near allergic reaction to erotic male contact? Because, if you liked that sexual contact unknowing the possible gay paradigm and afterwards became aware that you like that kind of contact, then the cure would be for all purposes, useless or irrelevant.curono
So if there is no inherent risk with being gay, a cure should not not be manditory. If someone wants to change their body, it's up to them alone to make that decision. I don't really remember where this argument started though, I might have gotten a little sidetracked...
If we can define sexuality, we can then talk about what happens if it were cured or not. I think that's one reason we have these debates?
My guess would be the cure would make you attracted to females instead of males. Whether that makes you whither at same sex contact, or just inhibits your blood flow to the groin. I think of sexuality as a sliding scale, one one side we have gay, on the other we have straight. Where we are positioned depends on our nature and nurturing. Thus, some people can be attracted to both sexes, or attracted more towards one than another. Using this, a cure in my mind would just move someone along this scale towards the other spectrum, making them "straighter".
[QUOTE="lostrib"]
[QUOTE="slipknot0129"]Much like favoring one color over another or one food over another. It is a choice but your have influences ever since you were born.Â
slipknot0129
that's not proof
The only valid proof in saying whether it is a choice or not to be gay is that all decisions were decided once the big bang happened. So everything is already set in stone.ÂIt is only how people perceive things. People can seperate certain things from being a choice or not a choice in their mind, but in the end it is all set in stone by the big bang.Â
So, so stupid
slipknot just shhhhh
[QUOTE="Zlurodirom"]
[QUOTE="slipknot0129"]Everything that will happen is already predetermined by what happened when the big bang happened.Â
slipknot0129
So I'm guessing you're not religious because most of those who believe, also believe in "freedom of choice"
I'm guessing you don't subscribe to the multiple universes hypothesis
So I'm trying to figure out why you think everything is pre-determined. Do you not believe in chance?
All I believe in is that the universe will restart over and over forever. I will relive every possible combination there is in existance. I dont believe in choices since it was all determined from the get go. I think an infinitely cyclical universe was ruled out Something to do with entropy and energy ...Gotta find that articlePlease Log In to post.
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