In your opinion, what does Germany and Japanhave to do to pay for ww1 and ww2

At that time, not now. Would a massacre of German people be suffice? Would splitting Germany up and claiming the land as other countries be good? Would making it a slave and bankrupt the economy be the way to go?

Not including the stuff they already had to do

about Japan, was the 2 nukes more than enough for Japan's deeds during ww2?

My opinion about Japan, the 2 nukes were necessary to END a war to save more innocent people (you can kind of tell that it was not overkill that Japan did not surrender when the first nuke landed) It saved many American lives and money, perhaps Japanese people if we had to do a full invasion. In fact, the 2 nukes are not actually the punishments to Japan, it was only to end the war, a nuke after the war would be a punishment. And of course, they started the war, self defense is acceptable

In fact, what should any country pay as a concequence for losing a war they started

When every soldier who served in WW2 for Germany is dead, they will be done paying for their war crimes.

Japan has already paid enough.

They should pay nothing. They had different leaders 60+ years ago. Its not the same country. If thats the case, what should the U.S. have to do to pay for what they did to native americans?

This was sixty years ago. What had (or not) to be done, was done. Drop the bone already.

When every soldier who served in WW2 for Germany is dead, they will be done paying for their war crimes. Japan has already paid enough.airshocker

Elaborate please.Lonelynight

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

1) Why should Germany have paid at all for WW1...? That is the entire reasononing behind Hitler's rise to power and the establishment of the Third Reich... And the beginning the Europe's WW2... Germany did not start WW1... Austria, Germany's ally declared war on Serbia after a Serbian insurgent group assassinated their Arch Duke... Russia, feeling obligated to defend fellow Slavs declared war on Austria... Austria asked its ally Germany for assistance and Germany obliged... And it should have ended there... But there were all of these other face saving treaties and France, who had a treaty with Russia declared war on Germany and Austria, followed by the UK who had a treaty with France, etc so on and so forth...

2) Restitution is what causes further conflict... After WW2, what the United States did was right... After WW1, what England and France did is wrong. After WW2, the US saw to it that those responsible for the instigation of the war were removed... And then the rest of the country(ies) were rebuilt and they made sure that nothing like that ever occurred again... After WW1, Britain and France placed all blame of WW1 on Germany, forced Germany to pay restitution, limited Germany's military, limited their trade, etc... More or less humiliating and punishing Germany for something they did not instigate... Hence why I said earlier that it led to the rise of the Third Reich who promised to return Germany to its former glory...

A country losing the war they started is pretty much payment right there. THe fact that they surrenderd and lost meant they could do absolutely nothing else. And of course, there are terms that have to be agreed upon by both sides. once these terms are accepted, what more is there to do? The people ordering the wars to start are out of power and most likely in deep trouble. They surrendered most likely because their country is in shambles. If they dont surrender, they get what's coming to them. if they do surrender, you can bet that the winning side would demand a lot. If they accept what is demanded, the winning side has no more stake to any more revenge or punishment. the war is over. All punishments should have been dealt with in the final peace treaty agreements.

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]Elaborate please.airshocker

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

Why don't you Wikipedia "Unit 731" and prepare to facepalm at your own comment.

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]Elaborate please.airshocker

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

War crimes are an effin' joke. If everyone's doing it (yes, USA, you do it too), and no one's getting punished, WHY THE HELL IS IT A CRIME?

Look, several countries have done similar things to what Germany did in WW II, mostly at smaller proportions. Israel, with the palestines; the US, with every other country in the world; the UK, England notably, with its neo-colonialism policies at the beginning of the past century; Netherlands; France; Spain... the list goes on and on, and Europe is certainly the worst portion of the world as far as international crimes go.

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]Elaborate please.airshocker

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]Elaborate please.CommanderShiro

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

i dont know much, but from what i've heard, japanese soldiers would line up chinese civilians and cut all their heads off as a sort of game.

This next example, i dont remember where i heard it, so i cant guarantee if its true, but i also heard that some japanese soldiers had family members rape each other before they killed them. not too sure about this one though.

I didn't know the internet existed in 1946.

It is 1946 right?

They didn't commit war crimes against the world.airshocker

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]Elaborate please.TehOverkill

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

War crimes are an effin' joke. If everyone's doing it (yes, USA, you do it too), and no one's getting punished, WHY THE HELL IS IT A CRIME?

Look, several countries have done similar things to what Germany did in WW II, mostly at smaller proportions. Israel, with the palestines; the US, with every other country in the world; the UK, England notably, with its neo-colonialism policies at the beginning of the past century; Netherlands; France; Spain... the list goes on and on, and Europe is certainly the worst portion of the world as far as international crimes go.

Why do people always point out Israel when discussing war crimes and say they are committing them against Palestinians? If Israel wanted to destroy the Palestinians, they are MORE than capable of doing so, in fact if Israel wanted to kill every Muslim in the Middle East they are more than capable...

Israel has a massive stockpile of chemical and biological weapons as well as upwards of 250 nuclear devices... If they wanted to, they could destroy the Middle East. But they don't want to... They have those weapons for one thing and one thing only... Last resort defense... If one day Israel is on the verge of being utterly destroyed by their neighbors, you can bet your ass there will be war crimes committed, but not until then.

----

And before you say I am pro-Israel I hate Israel for what it is doing in it slow slow settlement of Palestinian territory, but there is nothing that can be done... Israel will not give up Jerusalem and thus no peace will ever be met unless the Palestinians are willing to give up Jerusalem, which will also not happen... And the settlement has almost reached the point of no return, you can move a couple hundred or thousand settlers somewhere else, but there are literally tens of thousands now... It must stop soon or it will be to late to stop.

I don't know. What will the US going to do to pay for what they did to Afghanistan and Iraq?kuraimen

Toppling two oppressive regimes is a bad thing?

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]Elaborate please.CommanderShiro

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

This. Pretty ignorant to say that the Japanese didn't commit warcrimes. Though I think the Japanese today are in denial about it. Or the government doesn't acknowledge it or something.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I don't know. What will the US going to do to pay for what they did to Afghanistan and Iraq?Buttons1990

Toppling two oppressive regimes is a bad thing?

Um... This was a while a go... Lock this thread for being old news please....

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]I don't know. What will the US going to do to pay for what they did to Afghanistan and Iraq?kuraimen

Toppling two oppressive regimes is a bad thing?

The United States established the Taliban and helped the Baath Party seize Iraq?

[QUOTE="TehOverkill"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

Buttons1990

War crimes are an effin' joke. If everyone's doing it (yes, USA, you do it too), and no one's getting punished, WHY THE HELL IS IT A CRIME?

Look, several countries have done similar things to what Germany did in WW II, mostly at smaller proportions. Israel, with the palestines; the US, with every other country in the world; the UK, England notably, with its neo-colonialism policies at the beginning of the past century; Netherlands; France; Spain... the list goes on and on, and Europe is certainly the worst portion of the world as far as international crimes go.

Why do people always point out Israel when discussing war crimes and say they are committing them against Palestinians? If Israel wanted to destroy the Palestinians, they are MORE than capable of doing so, in fact if Israel wanted to kill every Muslim in the Middle East they are more than capable...

Israel has a massive stockpile of chemical and biological weapons as well as upwards of 250 nuclear devices... If they wanted to, they could destroy the Middle East. But they don't want to... They have those weapons for one thing and one thing only... Last resort defense... If one day Israel is on the verge of being utterly destroyed by their neighbors, you can bet your ass there will be war crimes committed, but not until then.

----

And before you say I am pro-Israel I hate Israel for what it is doing in it slow slow settlement of Palestinian territory, but there is nothing that can be done... Israel will not give up Jerusalem and thus no peace will ever be met unless the Palestinians are willing to give up Jerusalem, which will also not happen... And the settlement has almost reached the point of no return, you can move a couple hundred or thousand settlers somewhere else, but there are literally tens of thousands now... It must stop soon or it will be to late to stop.

I dislike how your post implies that either a country isn't being criminal or it's going all-f***ing-out. Sure, it hasn't nuked the Middle East because they're not STUPID. Why would they nuke the largest reserve of oil in the world, risking the loss of support from the country that guarantees their military power, the US -- because, let's face it, Israel's USA's middle-east puppet.

The creation of the State of Israel was f***ed up since the beginning, a great ploy for the Western developped countries to set camp near their most valuable resource, petroleum, but a crime against the people who already lived there, and had to be moved out because a few million people said that that was their country A FEW THOUSAND YEARS AGO. While we're at it, let's give the U.S. back to England, Brazil to Portugal and the rest of Latin America to Spain.

--

I'm anti-Israel (and please don't misunderstand this and claim I'm an anti-Semite. You'd be making a fool of yourself), period. They invaded another peoples' country of residence and offer almost no flexibility, taking whatever they want for their own. The least they could do is share the territory with the palestinians, and offer an equalitarian political division. Instead, they destroy the means of living of their neighbours (grape vines take more than a dozen years to mature). I'm glad the number of palestines is rapidly increasing while the number of Israelites is going from steady to decreasing. Their nuclear bombs will never get deployed because North America, Europe and the UN would never allow it, and they'll be greatly outnumbered by the pallestinians in a few years. I'm not saying this would lead to a loss in the Israeli state: it has the best trained air force in the world, and one of the best military, but terrorist attacks and bombings will increase to the point that the Jewish people will start asking if living in Israel or Jerusalem is worth it.

love your avatar and i agree with your comment

Hard to say. Often times you are asking people to pay for crimes that they themselves did not commit. Most of those wars were started by a limited few in government, not the people themselves.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Toppling two oppressive regimes is a bad thing?

Buttons1990

The United States established the Taliban and helped the Baath Party seize Iraq?

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]Elaborate please.airshocker

We nuked Japan, twice. They didn't commit war crimes against the world. The Nazis did.

When every Nazi who served in WW2 is dead, the Germans have the right to be left alone.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Toppling two oppressive regimes is a bad thing?

Buttons1990

The United States established the Taliban and helped the Baath Party seize Iraq?

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="TehOverkill"]

War crimes are an effin' joke. If everyone's doing it (yes, USA, you do it too), and no one's getting punished, WHY THE HELL IS IT A CRIME?

Look, several countries have done similar things to what Germany did in WW II, mostly at smaller proportions. Israel, with the palestines; the US, with every other country in the world; the UK, England notably, with its neo-colonialism policies at the beginning of the past century; Netherlands; France; Spain... the list goes on and on, and Europe is certainly the worst portion of the world as far as international crimes go.

TehOverkill

Why do people always point out Israel when discussing war crimes and say they are committing them against Palestinians? If Israel wanted to destroy the Palestinians, they are MORE than capable of doing so, in fact if Israel wanted to kill every Muslim in the Middle East they are more than capable...

Israel has a massive stockpile of chemical and biological weapons as well as upwards of 250 nuclear devices... If they wanted to, they could destroy the Middle East. But they don't want to... They have those weapons for one thing and one thing only... Last resort defense... If one day Israel is on the verge of being utterly destroyed by their neighbors, you can bet your ass there will be war crimes committed, but not until then.

----

And before you say I am pro-Israel I hate Israel for what it is doing in it slow slow settlement of Palestinian territory, but there is nothing that can be done... Israel will not give up Jerusalem and thus no peace will ever be met unless the Palestinians are willing to give up Jerusalem, which will also not happen... And the settlement has almost reached the point of no return, you can move a couple hundred or thousand settlers somewhere else, but there are literally tens of thousands now... It must stop soon or it will be to late to stop.

I dislike how your post implies that either a country isn't being criminal or it's going all-f***ing-out. Sure, it hasn't nuked the Middle East because they're not STUPID. Why would they nuke the largest reserve of oil in the world, risking the loss of support from the country that guarantees their military power, the US -- because, let's face it, Israel's USA's middle-east puppet.

The creation of the State of Israel was f***ed up since the beginning, a great ploy for the Western developped countries to set camp near their most valuable resource, petroleum, but a crime against the people who already lived there, and had to be moved out because a few million people said that that was their country A FEW THOUSAND YEARS AGO. While we're at it, let's give the U.S. back to England, Brazil to Portugal and the rest of Latin America to Spain.

--

I'm anti-Israel (and please don't misunderstand this and claim I'm an anti-Semite. You'd be making a fool of yourself), period. They invaded another peoples' country of residence and offer almost no flexibility, taking whatever they want for their own. The least they could do is share the territory with the palestinians, and offer an equalitarian political division. Instead, they destroy the means of living of their neighbours (grape vines take more than a dozen years to mature). I'm glad the number of palestines is rapidly increasing while the number of Israelites is going from steady to decreasing. Their nuclear bombs will never get deployed because North America, Europe and the UN would never allow it, and they'll be greatly outnumbered by the pallestinians in a few years. I'm not saying this would lead to a loss in the Israeli state: it has the best trained air force in the world, and one of the best military, but terrorist attacks and bombings will increase to the point that the Jewish people will start asking if living in Israel or Jerusalem is worth it.

Um... What? Son, ever heard of the Ottoman Empire...? What is this "western ploy to set up camp near their most valuable resource?"

Once WW1 ended France and England divided up the former Ottoman Empire and inserted puppet governments in those "new" countries (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan)... All of which are much closer to the resources you speak of (which weren't even important to either France or England in 1918-1920)... What was important was Egypt... And the Suez Canal... And England's access to India... The Middle East was just road for England to reach India on... That is all.

And what crime was committed against those who lived there? The Jews in the early 1900s through the 1920s-30s were BUYING land FROM PALESTINIANS and setting up settlements... In the "BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE" as it wasn't even a Palestinian nation at that point either... Then by 1948, India had partitioned from Britain, they just lost millions of people in WW2, and didn't give two poops about the Middle East any more and left Palestine to fend for itself... Preparing for that for years, Israel established itself instantly... And every single neighboring Arab nation attacked that new state... And they defended themselves... And hundreds of thousands of Palestinians LEFT ON THEIR OWN TO GET AWAY FROM THE WAR... And the 1948 borders were established after the United Nations intervened (though Jordan actually stopped attacking once they occupied all of the West Bank) (and similarly Egypt with Gaza) - Two places they (ARAB NATIONS) would continue to occupy until the 1967 war...

Why don't you Wikipedia "Unit 731" and prepare to facepalm at your own comment.

Buttons1990

Why would I facepalm? Are you 12? I like learning new things. Still doesn't compare to what the Nazis did.

Unless I am mistaken, the WWII stuff was sorted out about 60+ years ago. Most of those alive at the time have now passed. As of now, they owe us nothing.

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Why don't you Wikipedia "Unit 731" and prepare to facepalm at your own comment.

airshocker

Why would I facepalm? Are you 12? I like learning new things. Still doesn't compare to what the Nazis did.

How do you make that comparison?

Jesus christ, the condescension in this thread is staggering. I've never heard of Unit 731. I vaguely remember some things the Japanese did to the Chinese, but not much.

How do you make that comparison?

one_plum

Did Unit 731 kill millions of people? No where in what I read were there specifics for casualties.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Toppling two oppressive regimes is a bad thing?

Buttons1990

The United States established the Taliban and helped the Baath Party seize Iraq?

Pretty much every country, and especially western countries, have tons to pay for if we look back far enough in history.

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Why don't you Wikipedia "Unit 731" and prepare to facepalm at your own comment.

airshocker

Why would I facepalm? Are you 12? I like learning new things. Still doesn't compare to what the Nazis did.

10 million Chinese civilians died from World War II. Guess who was in complete control of China duringWW2?

Although had the United States lost they would have been convicted of war crimes too.

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

Why don't you Wikipedia "Unit 731" and prepare to facepalm at your own comment.

airshocker

Why would I facepalm? Are you 12? I like learning new things. Still doesn't compare to what the Nazis did.

That is just Unit 731... Over 20,000,000 Chinese were killed by Japan during WW2. But even if it were just a thousand Chinese killed, are you saying that those murdered by the Japanese military aren't worth as much as those murdered by the Nazi party?

That is just Unit 731... Over 20,000,000 Chinese were killed by Japan during WW2. But even if it were just a thousand Chinese killed, are you saying that those murdered by the Japanese military aren't worth as much as those murdered by the Nazi party?

Buttons1990

If it were only a thousand yes, I would say their war crimes weren't nearly as bad as the ones the Nazis committed.

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

That is just Unit 731... Over 20,000,000 Chinese were killed by Japan during WW2. But even if it were just a thousand Chinese killed, are you saying that those murdered by the Japanese military aren't worth as much as those murdered by the Nazi party?

airshocker

If it were only a thousand yes, I would say their war crimes weren't nearly as bad as the ones the Nazis committed.

Germany killed millions of innocent human beings and so did Japan. I'm not seeing any difference. Germany is only more widely known because of the bureaucracy behind it.

Jesus christ, the condescension in this thread is staggering. I've never heard of Unit 731. I vaguely remember some things the Japanese did to the Chinese, but not much.

airshocker

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] No helping those regimes come into place and then killing thousands of innocent people to get rid of them is a bad thing.F1_2004

The United States established the Taliban and helped the Baath Party seize Iraq?

Pretty much every country, and especially western countries, have tons to pay for if we look back far enough in history.

The CIA wanting to kill Karim Qasim for overthrowing a pro-western government is hardly the same thing as installing a communit party.

And although the US contributed to the emergence of the Taliban, it was our lack of doing anything that gave way to them... We did not create them and we did not sponsor their creation... After the Soviet Union left Afghanistan, so did our interest there... And when the Taliban emerged and seized power... We really just didn't give a poop...

Germany killed millions of innocent human beings and so did Japan. I'm not seeing any difference. Germany is only more widely known because of the bureaucracy behind it.

Fizzman

This is what happens when you quote someone who wasn't talking to you.

I'm not going to repeat what I said. Reread my post to him.