[QUOTE="jointed"]I'm not very fond of arguing with people who don't really know much about the subject at hand but what the heck. A republic is a nation state in which the people have an influence on the government and is not led by a monarch. "Democracy" is used to describe systems in which the people hold a significant amount of power, there are different forms of democracies, representative democracies are one of these forms. The USA is allegedly a representative democracy. It can easily be debated though. We the people don't hold a significant amount of power. We don't appoint our own Supreme Court Justices, we have no say when it comes to filling in empty senate seats in our respective states, and it can be argued that we don't even elect our own president. That doesn't seem to be a "significant amount of power." The U.S.A is allegedly a republic, as it is said in the Constitution.
[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] By definition, it is a Republic. That is written in the Constitution, and it is spoken by every high ranking official of our government. We live in a Republic. But, again, we are far, far from a 'true' democracy. You cannot use Democracy and Republic synonymously.Vandalvideo
"True democracy"? Are you talking about direct democracies? Direct and representative democracies are two different forms but they're both still democracies. Again, representative democracy is nothing more than an oxymoron. In a Democracy, you have rule by the people. In a representative democracy, the people have no real power and the officials do not have to follow verbatim the dicto of the people. You seem to be confused. A direct democracy is NOT the only form of democracy. Democracy simply means that the people hold the power. It says nothing about their executive power. If representatives can practice the rule of the people properly then you've got a representative democracy. I hate to break it to you but there is no use in arguing established sociological concepts.
[QUOTE="jointed"][ You seem to be confused. A direct democracy is NOT the only form of democracy. Democracy simple means that the people hold the power. It says nothing about their executive power. If representatives can practice the rule of the people properly then you've got a representative democracy. I hate to break it to you but there is no use in arguing established sociological concepts. Rule by the people is the single founding doctrine of Democracy as a whole. You can't violate the single most important rule and still call it a Democracy. If the people do not have real power to exercise directly onto the decision making with 100% accountability and the ability to retract any elected official at any time and a fair proportionment, it simply is not rule by the people. What we have violates these basic tenents.
[QUOTE="jointed"][ You seem to be confused. A direct democracy is NOT the only form of democracy. Democracy simple means that the people hold the power. It says nothing about their executive power. If representatives can practice the rule of the people properly then you've got a representative democracy. I hate to break it to you but there is no use in arguing established sociological concepts.Vandalvideo
Rule by the people is the single founding doctrine of Democracy as a whole. You can't violate the single most important rule and still call it a Democracy. Is the people do not have real power to exercise directly onto the decision making with 100% accountability and the ability to retract any elected official at any time and a fair proportionment, it simply is not rule by the people. What we have violates these basic tendencies. What rules are you talking about? Democracy is a broad term that covers many different forms of governmental systems. The "rule of the people" is not a reference to the executive branch.
[QUOTE="jointed"] What rules are you talking about? Democracy is a broad term that covers many different forms of governmental systems. The "rule of the people" is not a reference to the executive branch. Democracy is a term referring to a system of government in which the PEOPLE have the power. If you're electing individuals, who in turn elect individuals, who make decisions you have NO say over, that isn't power of the people. Realistically speaking, electedo fficials can easily go against their constituencies. It happens all the time, much more frequently than we care to admit. It largely goes unnoticed by their voting base because people willfully ignore these things. In a Representative Democracy....which isn't even real...we don't have power.
[QUOTE="jointed"] What rules are you talking about? Democracy is a broad term that covers many different forms of governmental systems. The "rule of the people" is not a reference to the executive branch.Vandalvideo
Democracy is a term referring to a system of government in which the PEOPLE have the power. If you're electing individuals, who in turn elect individuals, who make decisions you have NO say over, that isn't power of the people. Realistically speaking, electedo fficials can easily go against their constituencies. It happens all the time, much more frequently than we care to admit. It largely goes unnoticed by their voting base because people willfully ignore these things. In a Representative Democracy....which isn't even real...we don't have power. You've completely misunderstood the term. Again, democracy is NOT a reference to the executive branch...when will you get this? If the people have the freedom to elect representatives who in turn governs the nation then they hold power. The representatives can practice the rule of the people more effectivly than a mob. Candidates present their plans for the next four years, and the people then decides what plans they want implemented. The candidates are of course a part of the people themselves and their plans represent the peoples' wishes. This is a representative democracy.
[QUOTE="jointed"] You've completely misunderstood the term. Again, democracy is NOT a reference to the executive branch...when will you get this? If the people have the freedom to elect representatives who in turn governs the nation then they hold power. The representatives can practice the rule of the people more effectivly than a mob. Candidates present their plans for the next four years, and the people then decides what plans they want implemented. The candidates are of course a part of the people themselves and their plans represent the peoples' wishes. This is a representative democracy. Who said I'm just referencing the executive branch? I'm referencing judicial, executive, and legislative. Thats all three. My statements apply to every last one. The legislative branch can ignore their constituency, the president is elected by a farce of people that don't have to answer to the public, and the judicial branch is nominated by the president, elected by dudes, who the general public have no idea about.
[QUOTE="jointed"] You've completely misunderstood the term. Again, democracy is NOT a reference to the executive branch...when will you get this? If the people have the freedom to elect representatives who in turn governs the nation then they hold power. The representatives can practice the rule of the people more effectivly than a mob. Candidates present their plans for the next four years, and the people then decides what plans they want implemented. The candidates are of course a part of the people themselves and their plans represent the peoples' wishes. This is a representative democracy.Vandalvideo
Who said I'm just referencing the executive branch? I'm referencing judicial, executive, and legislative. Thats all three. My statements apply to every last one. The legislative branch can ignore their constituency, the president is elected by a farce of people that don't have to answer to the public, and the judicial branch is nominated by the president, elected by dudes, who the general public have no idea about. So the people have no influence in the government and America is not a republic?
[QUOTE="jointed"] So the people have no influence in the government and America is not a republic? The elected people have the ability to elect public officials who act on their behalf; Republic, but they do not have the power to directly influence the process through accountability; Democracy. Republic and Democracy are NOT synonyms.
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="jointed"] You've completely misunderstood the term. Again, democracy is NOT a reference to the executive branch...when will you get this? If the people have the freedom to elect representatives who in turn governs the nation then they hold power. The representatives can practice the rule of the people more effectivly than a mob. Candidates present their plans for the next four years, and the people then decides what plans they want implemented. The candidates are of course a part of the people themselves and their plans represent the peoples' wishes. This is a representative democracy.jointed
Who said I'm just referencing the executive branch? I'm referencing judicial, executive, and legislative. Thats all three. My statements apply to every last one. The legislative branch can ignore their constituency, the president is elected by a farce of people that don't have to answer to the public, and the judicial branch is nominated by the president, elected by dudes, who the general public have no idea about. So the people have no influence in the government and America is not a republic? The people do have an influence on the government. However, they do not, by any means, have a "significant amount of power".
[QUOTE="jointed"] So the people have no influence in the government and America is not a republic?Vandalvideo
The elected people have the ability to elect public officials who act on their behalf; Republic, but they do not have the power to directly influence the process through accountability; Democracy. Republic and Democracy are NOT synonyms. The people must have an impact on the government in order for it to be a republic. The people in a representative democracy must hold a certain amount of power, this power is exhibited in the election of the representatives. Your definition of democracy is too extreme, we're not talking about direct democracy. I suggest you read up on this, seriously.
[QUOTE="jointed"] The people must have an impact on the government in order for it to be a republic. The people in a representative democracy must hold a certain amount of power, this power is exhibited in the election of the representatives. Your definition of democracy is too extreme, we're not talking about direct democracy. I suggest you read up on this, seriously. Of course the people have an impact. They have an impact by electing someone who makes decisions. They don't have to be acting in their constiuencies interests to have made an impact. Impact does not mean you continually exert some kind of power on the process.
[QUOTE="jointed"] The people must have an impact on the government in order for it to be a republic. The people in a representative democracy must hold a certain amount of power, this power is exhibited in the election of the representatives. Your definition of democracy is too extreme, we're not talking about direct democracy. I suggest you read up on this, seriously.Vandalvideo
Of course the people have an impact. They have an impact by electing someone who makes decisions. They don't have to be acting in their constiuencies interests to have made an impact. Impact does not mean you continually exert some kind of power on the process. Exactly, and the people don't need to continually exert power on this process in order for it to be a democracy. The power held by the people in a representative democracy is practiced when they elect officials.
america is a constitutional republic healthcare costs are high because employers are forced to pay, anytime you FORCE someone to pay, prices go up, especially if the payments mostly come from employers who have big pockets
[QUOTE="jointed"] Exactly, and the people don't need to continually exert power on this process in order for it to be a democracy. The power held by the people in a representative democracy is practiced when they elect officials. Yes they do. That is the quentesential part of a Democracy. The exertion of real power on the process by the people. It is the pwoer of the people, not the representative to do as they please.
[QUOTE="jointed"] Exactly, and the people don't need to continually exert power on this process in order for it to be a democracy. The power held by the people in a representative democracy is practiced when they elect officials. Vandalvideo
Yes they do. That is the quentesential part of a Democracy. The exertion of real power on the process by the people. It is the pwoer of the people, not the representative to do as they please. Nope, you're again talking about a direct democracy.
[QUOTE="jointed"] Nope, you're again talking about a direct democracy. No, I'm talking about a *Democracy*. Rule by the people. Power of the people. In our system, the people have no way to get accountability. They don't exert power.
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