is alcoholism a disease? also, what do you think of the twelve steps?

tell me your thoughts. I guess I'll tell you mine

first off, alcoholism isn't a disease. you make a consious choice to consume alcohol.

second off, the twelve step program is total BS. the third step is to turn your life over to god as you see him. mind you, courts make people attend AA meetings. can you say compulsory religion?

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Godas we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

these are the 12 steps

Anything that takes 12 steps isn't worth doing.

(From the Simpsons BTW)

tell me your thoughts. I guess I'll tell you mine

first off, alcoholism isn't a disease. you make a consious choice to consume alcohol.

second off, the twelve step program is total BS. the third step is to turn your life over to god as you see him. mind you, courts make people attend AA meetings. can you say compulsory religion?

mig_killer2

It's like any other addiction, but I wouldn't call it a "disease".

alcoholism isn't actually a disease. the supreme court says so, and there is no alcoholism gene

alcoholism isn't actually a disease. the supreme court says so, and there is no alcoholism gene

mig_killer2

Actually Alcoholism does run in families. Take Native Americans. They have tons of problems with Alcohol. There is no alcohol "gene".

I'm pretty sure it is classified as a heridirary disease, and I think the 12 twelve steps work for someone who is serious about quitting, but also if someone is serious enough about stopping they don't need the 12 steps to quitdouble_decker

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

alcoholism isn't actually a disease. the supreme court says so, and there is no alcoholism gene

BlueTimber

Actually Alcoholism does run in families. Take Native Americans. They have tons of problems with Alcohol. There is no alcohol "gene".

you lost me at turning my life over to godClinton015

Exactly right. That makes the 12 steps BS... you're moving control of your life from an existing liquid to a fictional character. May as well thank Moby Dick for taking care of us in our darker times.

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

alcoholism isn't actually a disease. the supreme court says so, and there is no alcoholism gene

BlueTimber

Actually Alcoholism does run in families. Take Native Americans. They have tons of problems with Alcohol. There is no alcohol "gene".

I'm pretty sure that's bull****. I've never heard anyone say that you can inherit alcoholism, your kid can end up being mentally retarded from drinking while pregnant, but the act of drinking isn't passed down through genes.

[QUOTE="ThaStig"]:| If it was hereditary, I would be an alcoholic. I hate alcohol. /threaddouble_decker

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Godas we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

these are the 12 steps

mig_killer2

tell me your thoughts. I guess I'll tell you mine

first off, alcoholism isn't a disease. you make a consious choice to consume alcohol.

second off, the twelve step program is total BS. the third step is to turn your life over to god as you see him. mind you, courts make people attend AA meetings. can you say compulsory religion?

mig_killer2

You are so ignorant it is not even funny. Do a little research before you spout of your ignorance why don't you? Do you even know what alcoholism and addiction is like? Have you ever been an addict? Do you know the definition? I was addicted to narcotics for seven years, and if it pleases you consider me morally weak for not being able to control it.

Try to take a look at an addict who is ultimately miserable, on the street, on the verge of dying crying and screaming at the top of their lungs,yet is still drinking themselves to death.....then thell yourself what you have been. Better yet, get into that position yourself.

It is not as simple as making a conscious choice to use. There are MANY biological factors involved, and research is uncovering more all the time.

About AA, it will only be effective if the addict wants it to be. Many have a hard time with the religious aspect of it, but that does not mean it hasn't been effective for a lot of people.

That's all I'm going to say.

[QUOTE="double_decker"][QUOTE="ThaStig"]:| If it was hereditary, I would be an alcoholic. I hate alcohol. /threadmig_killer2

Google Alcoholism. The cause hasn't been proven, so don't go tossing potential causes out the window because you don't think its true. Read up.

tell me your thoughts. I guess I'll tell you mine

first off, alcoholism isn't a disease. you make a consious choice to consume alcohol.

second off, the twelve step program is total BS. the third step is to turn your life over to god as you see him. mind you, courts make people attend AA meetings. can you say compulsory religion?

mig_killer2

"you make a conscious decision to drink alcohol?" why are you so smart? do you know that chronic alcoholics CAN'T stop drinking because the withdrawal is potentially lethal. alcoholism is the worst form of drug addiction.

i don't know much about the 12 step program, but a friend of mine, who is a recovering alcoholic, speaks very highly of it.

this might help to clarify my point

this might help to clarify my point

mig_killer2

alcoholism is a disease, it actually makes biological changes in your body which makes you need alcohol. Being an addict is a disease, the word comes from lantin a-dicto which means you are not able to express yourself, that is the disease most addicts have. The turning to god thing is not that bad at all, they are showing to the addict someone (real or not) to trust and who will always forgive them.chelenitos

I think the 12 steps are BS, but alcoholism isn't a choice. No addiction is. Mumbles527

[QUOTE="chelenitos"]alcoholism is a disease, it actually makes biological changes in your body which makes you need alcohol. Being an addict is a disease, the word comes from lantin a-dicto which means you are not able to express yourself, that is the disease most addicts have. The turning to god thing is not that bad at all, they are showing to the addict someone (real or not) to trust and who will always forgive them.mig_killer2

:question:

I dont get your point but I worked with alcoholics and i can honestly tell you it's not their choice.

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"]I think the 12 steps are BS, but alcoholism isn't a choice. No addiction is. mig_killer2

That is the point you can't contol alcohol.

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"]I think the 12 steps are BS, but alcoholism isn't a choice. No addiction is. mig_killer2

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="chelenitos"]alcoholism is a disease, it actually makes biological changes in your body which makes you need alcohol. Being an addict is a disease, the word comes from lantin a-dicto which means you are not able to express yourself, that is the disease most addicts have. The turning to god thing is not that bad at all, they are showing to the addict someone (real or not) to trust and who will always forgive them.chelenitos

:question:

I dont get your point but I worked with alcoholics and i can honestly tell you it's not their choice.

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"]I think the 12 steps are BS, but alcoholism isn't a choice. No addiction is. mig_killer2

That is the point you can't contol alcohol.

Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it.

You don't fight off cancer through will power.

Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.BlueTimber

[QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.Mumbles527

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

[QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.Mumbles527

Excuses. I didn't say it was a cakewalk. I'm sure it's hard. REALLY hard, but that doesn't make it a DISEASE. Its an addiction, not a disease.

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.mig_killer2

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.mig_killer2

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

It changes your hormones you NEED alcohol. If someone was alcoholic for 20 years and you suddenly cut his alcohol supply he will probably die.

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.Mumbles527

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.mig_killer2

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.chelenitos

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

It changes your hormones you NEED alcohol. If someone was alcoholic for 20 years and you suddenly cut his alcohol supply he will probably die.

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.Mumbles527

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

Keyword, ADDICTION. You said it yourself.

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.BlueTimber

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

Keyword, ADDICTION. You said it yourself.

[QUOTE="BlueTimber"][QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.Mumbles527

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

Keyword, ADDICTION. You said it yourself.

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.Mumbles527

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

Dude, how difficult it will be to fight addiction isn't the topic. Its where or not alcoholism is a DISEASE, and I think we've established that it isn't. It's an addiction. And like EVERY addiction, its very hard to stop it.

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"][QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"]

[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]Through will power you can keep yourself from going to the store, buying alcohol, taking it home, opening the bottle, poor it in a glass, and putting it to your lips and drinking it. You don't fight off cancer through will power.mig_killer2

this whole idea of alcoholism, or any addiction for that matter, being a disease is just a way to say that you are not accountable for your own actions

Keyword, ADDICTION. You said it yourself.

addiction is a disease alcohol is an addiction

(inductivism)

alcohol is a disease