Is algebra an unnecessary stumbling block in US schools?

NEW YORK (AP) — Who needs algebra?

That question muttered by many a frustrated student over the years has become a vigorous debate among American educators, sparked by a provocative new book that argues required algebra has become an unnecessary stumbling block that forces millions to drop out of high school or college.

"One out of 5 young Americans does not graduate from high school. This is one of the worst records in the developed world. Why? The chief academic reason is they failed ninth-grade algebra," said political scientist Andrew Hacker, author of "The Math Myth and Other STEM Delusions."

Hacker, a professor emeritus at Queens College, argues that, at most, only 5 percent of jobs make use of algebra and other advanced math courses. He favors a curriculum that focuses more on statistics and basic numbers sense and less on (y - 3)2 = 4y - 12.

"Will algebra help you understand the federal budget?" he asked.

Many U.S. educators, including the architects of the Common Core standards, disagree, saying math just needs to be taught more effectively. It's fine for students to have quantitative skills, they say, but algebra is important, too.

"Every study I've ever seen of workers in whole bunches of fields shows that you have to understand formulas, you have to understand relationships," said Philip Uri Treisman, a professor of mathematics and of public affairs at the University of Texas. "Algebra is the tool for consolidating your knowledge of arithmetic."

Source.

What is your opinion GS? Shall we continue with the dumbing down of society?

Algebra is really simple, maybe if that's someone's stumbling block maybe they should be tested to see if they have an actual problem.

I'm going to go with no and a qualifier.

You leave it intact for the people going to college and make everyone else go deeper into fractions, decimals, business maths and statistics which everyone uses constantly.

With out algebra you can't do the higher math equations needed for engineering and the sciences.

May as well get rid of grammar, history, and chemistry while we're at it. Hell, give everyone a diploma just for showing up to what will be nothing more than a daycare service.

Tomorrow you'll raise objections at Calculus and if you do... I will be hurt okay? I love calculus.

Algebra is my favourite subject.

Its hard dog but it aint that hard. You just need to focus....

Algebra is one of the basic foundations for higher specialized math and science skills. I had a big problem in algebra in highschool. I did great in every area but math. I always thought "Why am I doing this? I will never use algebra in real life." This approach hurt me as an adult, and I taught myself when I was like 22 or so, and it helped me greatly overall.

Algebra isn't just a math subject, if you ask me. It's a problem solving subject that teaches you to logically solve problems. I use algebra in programming all of the time.

it is absolutely critical.

i understand the frustration (i can barely add 2 numbers and maths and I went our seperate ways a long long time ago). when i was learning it in school it was more rote learning and "you just do this and this and this to solve some abstract problem". at the time i had absolutely no idea how it would be used. at the end of the day i passed my exams but asking me to use maths to solve an actual real life problem is a lost cause.

which is funny because that is precisely what maths is there to do: solve actual problems. there is a great series on netflix called the history of maths that shows how this stuff came to be. from what i saw of it its all very practical....though i still didnt understand it (showing the most efficent way to divide up a field....it was like the presenter was pulling numbers out of the air. im sure he is absolutely spot on...i just can't comprehend how it works.).

lulz.

"Student activists at Brown University are complaining of emotional stress and poor grades after months of protesting, and blame the school for insisting that they complete their coursework."

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7308

lol really?

Not sure how it is now, but when I was in high school (1998-2002) algebra was the basic math class; you had the dumb kids in pre-algebra. I think the way it went was: pre-algebra, algebra, geometry, pre-calculus, calculus, and AP Calculus for the smart kids. There might have been a statistics class in there you could sub for calculus.

Now pre-calc/calculus? That's where things got hard.

I definitely think more emphasis needs to be put on statistics, and they should definitely incorporate some sort of software (preferably MS Excel) into the class as well. I feel I was cheated in that regard because when I got to college my school was sold some BS software called "MiniTab" and no one uses that...except for the school lol.

I can tell you right now that I use algebra every day and I have a job that does not require a degree, so I think it is pretty useful.

That is how I feel as well. Hell, it's almost like a puzzle sometimes; I won't call it fun, but it's very rewarding when you get to the end of that long equation and the answer is right and you see an actual, tangible result.

I think one of the equations we did in class was to find out how many pounds of steam at ____ degrees would it take to melt 200 pounds of ice at -___ degrees and turn it into boiling water. We then did a rough hands-on project to apply the answers we got and it worked out surprisingly well. Took like 3 pages to work it all out lol.

Like you said, it is problem solving; it helps you think outside the box, surprisingly; kind of reframes your perspective on what is possible.

"only 5 percent of jobs make use of algebra and other advanced math courses."

Am I the only one who finds this line ironic? The guy who wrote this said he'd rather have a course on "basic number sense" but if he knew anything about maths he'd know 5% of all jobs is an enormous amount lol.

I always believed that algebra was important in critical thinking and problem solving in general even if it is something that you never specifically use later in life.

Yeah, he probably overlookd the fact that those 5 percent of jobs are either extremely important, and/or high paying ones.

Inasmuch as algebra is a prerequisite for calculus, the objection to algebra is an objection to calculus too. So you should be hurt already. :-)

Every class is an unnecessary stumbling block for someone.

Half the guys in college that came in for tutoring help with English papers wrote at like a 6th grade level and were Engineering majors.

How is algebra a stumbling block?

Well, I had only just convinced myself that algebra is the mom and calculus is the daughter and I've fallen only for the daughter .... y u had 2 do dis?

For a long time I wondered what was the purpose of algebra.....

In college, when I got into science, the answer was clear, algebra was necessary to finish off a lot of calculus problems that were important in solving some problems in the hard sciences.

Look, I'm not gonna argue for the applicability of high school algebra on the majority of people's careers. I will say that if you flunked out of high school because you can't put in the effort to get a passing grade in high school algebra, that high school algebra ain't the problem. There's a LOT of stuff I had to learn in high school (or at least "learn" well enough to get a passing grade), and a lot of it definitely is stuff that I'll never need to know ever again. But that's kind of the point. You put in the effort, you get passed, then you're free to completely forget that shit. It'd be one thing if we were talking about advanced calculus or something, but high school algebra is not exactly some insurmountable obstacle here. There are "rules" here. It's not even something subjective like art or literature. The rules are clearly laid out, the problems aren't that hard, and you'll pass if you just plain learn the basic rules. if you can't be bothered to do even that, then high school algebra is NOT the problem. The problem might be misplaced priorities. If you think it's worth flunking out of high school because it's too much work getting a passing grade in freaking high school algebra, then THAT'S a bigger problem than the high school algebra.

Just for knowledge's sake, would any American mind telling me how in-depth in algebra does the course go? Just linear geometry and matrix calculus?

I was thinking that as well. It's also meaningless since he doesn't provide stats for other subjects. How many jobs require you to know biology or history? I wouldn't be surprised if they're less than 5% as well.

Then there's the fact that school isn't just about learning the exact skills you need for your future career, tons of people have no idea what career they're going to end up in after school. A big aspect of school is learning how to learn.

As someone who's had Math as the subject I struggled the most with and had the poorest result in when I attended School, I found Algebra way more easy then things like Statistics, Graphical Formulas and Chance Calculations.

And for the record I managed to claw my way to what is essentially a D grade in the subject.

Algebra? Like that entry level math course, algebra? **** me, if we're gonna give up on kids at algebra then we're fucked.

IMO there's gotta be problems greater than us expecting too much from kids, there's likely external factors greatly contributing to kids failing in school. Where's childhood poverty factor in? Or the economic climate that has parents working two jobs and they're never at home to help kids with homework or make sure they do it? Or what does kids going to bed hungry every night do to their development? Or what does lead contamination in their pipes do to their development? Or what does hearing adults say "what use is math anyways?" do to their willingness to learn it?

Frankly I think we don't push our kids quick enough while they're young to utilize just how malleable their minds are. It's not just a platitude that children absorb so much, 60% of the glucose they consume is consumed by the brain as it's forming neural networks, as one gets older and into young adulthood, that consumption decreases by 66% to just 20% of the bodies total glucose consumption, then from then to elderly age that decreases by half. Goes to show, you have to learn when you're young because you'll be at a severe disadvantage later in life to make up for slacking off.

Maybe the solution, mandatory boarding school. Separating students early based on their abilities earlier. Help to determine their strengths early and give them the opportunity to excel in those areas.

lol. lots of kids drop out of hs because it's hard. solution: make hs easier

good work, guys. that kind of thinking will certainly pay dividends in the future.

...and you might learn you are good at math, something most people are not good at; this will lead to more lucrative careers/better grades in school/etc

Yup, totally NOT the reason China is taking over and getting all the good spots in the good K-12 schools here (at least in California).

Regardless of the necessity of STEM.

Algebra should teach students how to think logically. And how to intelligently sovle problems. Not to mention, 5% of the workforce is a lot. Algebra is an incredibly important tool. I use algebra not only when for my academic pursuits. But I also use Algebra (as well as more "advanced" stuff such as calculus) when playing computer games.

The kind of statistics I learnt, required some knowledge of Calculus, especially differentiation. So I honestly dont know what kind of statistics the guy was talking about, Statistics is way harder than Algebra, as far as I am concerned... unless he was referring to the kind of statistics I did in elementary school or the one I learnt on my own by playing Pokemon.

This is plain fucking stupid. Algebra is the bedrock of higher math based on its logical principles. Its a gateway into EVERYTHING past it. Its also damn easy as well. Just because '5%' of all jobs may only need to USE it on a daily basis doesn't mean that algebra isn't intimately integrated into the fabric of pretty much all science and economics.

Eliminating algebra from our high school curricula is desirable because it would be a giant leap towards eliminating all Islamic influence from America.

The "Father of Algebra" was none other than one Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi. Wikipedia says that he was even a servant of a Caliphate, just like the one that ISIS is trying to create! :-O

Just look at him, for Trump's sake! He's wearing a f*****g rag on his head, just like the terrorists!

His insidious influence is also present in the decimal positional system, which he introduced to the Western world in an obvious attempt to undermine Western civilization. So we should get rid of that too.

Um, x = 20?

Seriously? To think I was whining about flunking an easy math exam about PDEs lol

We use algebra balancing our checkbooks and splitting tabs. How is that an unnecessary skill that you'll never use again?

And I would argue that if you want to make financial literacy a goal out of high school, as many do, that some of the more advanced algebra proves useful as well - even without applying it to a career.

Really, I think a lot of it is a cultural thing. We act like education is work, and we (at least implicitly) look down on people who like being educated.

As a funny example, my parents weren't really big into education (outside of career preparation) until later in their lives. The way they tell it, they wrestled with helping my sister with her homework because she dreaded school and everything that went along with it. She would say (in their example), "Paraguay is so booooooring....." and they'd sigh and say, "We know...."

And then when I started getting into the swing of school, I'd come home and ramble on about how Paraguay had the coolest exports in South America. And they'd turn to each other and give each other looks of, "WTF?! It's Paraguay!" They just didn't have the same perception of it that I did, but they came around to that kind of thinking later on.

And I definitely see that same viewpoint in my son (although not regarding Paraguay - right now it's pretty laser focused on dinosaurs, genetics, biology, Earth history, and other science subjects). He's learning because he wants to. He's forming that worldview which gives him a clearer picture of what's going on, and he finds it exciting.

And it should be exciting! It is exciting!.... isn't it?

Algebra is really easy.

They're trying to point the finger at a class that is very fundamental in math while not really addressing the two things that could actually cause somebody to fail out of that course: lazyness or simply not being very bright.

I can also tell you that this will accomplish nothing but to bring down the ability of students that can actually do the work, as the fact is that if you can't handle something as easy as Algebra, you weren't going to do well if life. Period.

If you want to increase high school graduate rate that doesn't mean you have to degrade education. Today its algebra, tomorrow you will say reading Shakespeare or learning a foreign language isn't useful for everyone and should be removed, maybe chemistry and bio should take a kick as well because only handful of students go on to become chemists or doctors anyway.

Algebra involves critical thinking and critical thinking is important for youngsters.

You apply algebra in a lot general fields.

I hate algebra, I hate anything Math related..

I really think this goes on further to show that the education system needs to be more flexible, balancing what we as society feel needs to be known as general knowledge and what a person is honestly interested in. That goal of getting the best out of everyone and getting those virtues and that feeling of self fulfilment from learning to be sought after. You can't force a interest on a subject with someone and it's worse in that case because then that's where you begin to get strong feelings towards certain topics and a bad outlook.

Personally I think there is value in the product of the process of learning algebra, but a person by ninth grade may be willing to accept the responsibility later in life to decide they won't use algebra in the future and if were allowed to make the choice of not acquiring it. Here in Winnipeg, Manitoba removed from the United States at grade 10 we get three math classes to choose from that take those different paths down ether statistics and consumerism, geometrics and applied math and finally pre-cal which i took and kicked my a**. I am one of those guys held back, 4 credits over the mandatory requirement to graduate, but with one credit missing when failing pre-cal grade 10.

Math is great. If there are no tutors around, then it is much more difficult to learn. As a student of computer science, I am required to learn calculus to multivariable and linear algebra. This is not so much about learning about specific problems so much as mathematical thinking. Similar to how microeconomics teaches how to think like an economist and Biblical studies teach Christian thinking, learning algebra teaches how to approach situations quantitatively with equations and functions, and qualitatively with the Cartesian graph system. This does not teach programming skills, which are in demand, but it does teach the ability to compute that is the foundation of programming skills.

As Neil deGrasse Tyson said, the United States and every country in general advances to global leadership and maintains it when there is investment in science. Science in its current form cannot be done without mathematics as the foundation. Therefore, aspiring leaders should probably study algebra.

It's like the only useful thing you learn in school.

Reading is pretty useful as well.

Algebra should be the minimum math required for HS graduates if it's not already. That said, there are a lot of math-related subjects I took up that I am not currently using in the weather field.

Mechanics, Spherical Trig, Kinematics of Machine Elements, Differential Equations. Even differential and integral calculus aren't used that much anymore. Thermodynamics is still useful though.

I think Linear Algebra should be a HS requirement, at least the easier bits.

Its the most useful form of math in industry.

@Stesilaus: offtopic still have people like you around?