Is faith an excuse for lack of evidence?

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And again I'll tell you that those who don't understand faith aren't going to understand what evidence exists for those who believe. It's intangible but the evidence is there to those with faith. It's not like faith exists in a vacuum.LJS9502_basic

It's a nice way of saying "I gave up and decided to label this warm feeling in my gut as a superior being"

This doesn't say anything...like I said, gut feelings...the same feelings people of every religion or cult feels inside them. The same feeling people get from listening to music, reading a really good novel, performing on stage, or looking at the stars.

faith is for idiots simple and plain. equivalent to a kid believing in santa claus yall are clueless.

liberalus

It's a lot like people who watch a bunch of action movies and want them to be real because actual life is boring.

Question #1 on exam: what is the answer to this question? Answer: no suffient evidence to answer. WRONG Can't determine faith is not real by lack of evidence. That's like thinking "what we don't know or can't prove is wrong/nonexistent"playmynutz

That's why we have the science thing.

[QUOTE="hippiesanta"][QUOTE="TheFlush"]

 

How?

TheFlush

You don't seem to understand what the definition of atheism is.

[QUOTE="playmynutz"]Question #1 on exam: what is the answer to this question? Answer: no suffient evidence to answer. WRONG Can't determine faith is not real by lack of evidence. That's like thinking "what we don't know or can't prove is wrong/nonexistent"THE_DRUGGIE

That's why we have the science thing.

Yet even science can't explain anything and much of what people who dont believe in god, actually believe is only theory or hypotheses. But thanks to Internet message boards, we have a whole army of Atheists who think the non existence is fact. In reality though, they don't know shit either.Murderstyle75

[QUOTE="Murderstyle75"]Yet even science can't explain anything and much of what people who dont believe in god, actually believe is only theory or hypotheses. But thanks to Internet message boards, we have a whole army of Atheists who think the non existence is fact. In reality though, they don't know shit either.foxhound_fox

Yes I do and until you can show me the "Facts" that a higher power doesn't exist, it cannot be ruled out. Believe it or not, a good many scientists do believe in god.Murderstyle75

I mean, what else do you just believe 'just cause'?

Why is it that many times I'm talking to a religious person, he/she always tries to distance themselves from the blind, faith-based nature of it all?

chrisrooR

Yes and no.  I will say that there seems to be a whole lot about the universe that we don't understand and I think that belief in the uknown helps us cope with that.  Religion is a tool that helps us come to terms with our own existence.  That being said, it really seems like modern religion is hopelessly outdated.  When most modern religions were founded people were still trying to figure out what that bright, shiny sphere in the sky was and why it rose and set with regularity.  We're still faced with the same uncertainty, only now it's focused on more complex matters like dark matter, expansion of the universe, quantum mechanics, black holes, the nature of time and space, etc.  Religion evolved as a tool for people to cope with their environment centuries ago, I don't think it has much efficacy in modern times.

Furthermore, I really don't see how religious texts naturally follow lack of evidence.  Alright, sceintific inquiry can't explain some things (yet), so now suddenly that makes ages-old folklore a more reliable source?  I'll admit to the capacity to accept things beyond your own comprehension being important, but that doesn't mean we should simply accept modern religion at face value.  There are other ways to interpret the universe and to find our own place within it.  That we should fall back on deity worship when science fails to explain something seems pretty counter-intuitive to me.

A. Yes it can

B. So that makes the Bible a more reliable source?  Yeah, no, it doesn't work that way.[QUOTE="Murderstyle75"]and much of what people who dont believe in god, actually believe is only theory or hypotheses. Murderstyle75

But thanks to Internet message boards, we have a whole army of Atheists who think the non existence is fact.Murderstyle75

In reality though, they don't know shit either.Murderstyle75

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No. Evidence is not definable.....it's not of this world...and it's hard to show someone the why when they are want it to be of the world.LJS9502_basic

I'm talking about the difference between how we operate on a daily basis, versus placing value in something that has never been observed/had evidence collected on.

Evidence is that which is in support of an assertion.In this case, the assertion that's being made by the religious (God exists) on faith.

For example, you don't place 'faith' in brewing coffee and whether or not it will produce coffee. You have tangible results from past experience. When you say "I place faith in God that he'll do the right thing" you're essentially saying "I really have no way of knowing if any of this belief system means jack sh*t, but I'm just gonna follow the laws and prophets it produces".

Seems like there are some very serious life decisions (and political ones) that people make because of their faith-based assertions. If there's going to be influence on real-world issues, evidence should also be provided that is of the real world.

If it's intangible and only known to people with a certain perspective then it's not evidence.  We CAN define evidence, we have defined evidence, and evidence has to be verifiable so that it can serve its basic function of proving something to other people who don't possess some esoteric quality.  And guess what, a schizophrenic can claim to experience things that others don't and may very well experience them, that doesn't make those experiences real.  You can look at the world and connect the dots in a specific way, congratulations, your knowledge is on par with that of a conspiracy theorist.

Furthermore, who are you to say that people who are skeptical of religion don't understand faith?  There are many ways in which people can experience faith, just because they dismiss claims of some omnipotent being up in the sky doesn't mean they don't experience faith in other ways..

faith is not the excuse faith is the entire basis.

that is why i hate the idiots that try to use bullshyt intelligent design and scientific principals and evidence to prove religion is true.

how can you miss the point so badly and insult religion with that load of garbage?

just once i would like to see someone clever enough about the point of religion to just say "fvck you, i believe in magic and demons and shyt." and then not try to follow it up on why it makes perfect logical sense to believe in magic and demons and shyt.

you believe in shyt because you believe it is a fine reason to me, why completely mess up the message with some kind of followup?

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Murderstyle75"]Yet even science can't explain anything and much of what people who dont believe in god, actually believe is only theory or hypotheses. But thanks to Internet message boards, we have a whole army of Atheists who think the non existence is fact. In reality though, they don't know shit either.Murderstyle75

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]What I'm getting it at is that overwhelmingly, people are managing their expectations based on what THEY KNOW will happen. If you boil water, you know not to pour it on yourself because it will burn your skin and you'll be in pain. You don't randomly pour boiling water on yourself to see if that's changed. Most of our day to day activities play out in this way. Yet when religion becomes central to someones life, there's a complete absence of it. A void of reason, where they put up a barrier between themselves and others (even if they mean well). Why are people so willing to let something based on the complete lack of evidence control their lives through commands and a hierarchy of organized worship?MissLibrarian

Correct, because skepticism and logic are not innate in any human, it is a learned ability.  It's also great that were were not born skeptics, because if we were skeptical as a child when our parents taught us not to touch fire, or go in the river with crocodiles in it, we'd be dead.  Once you reach an old enough age, you no longer need to do this and can safely be skeptical of claims that people tell you, but many do not...they continue on in the innate appeal to what others tell them.

[QUOTE="MissLibrarian"][QUOTE="chrisrooR"]What I'm getting it at is that overwhelmingly, people are managing their expectations based on what THEY KNOW will happen. If you boil water, you know not to pour it on yourself because it will burn your skin and you'll be in pain. You don't randomly pour boiling water on yourself to see if that's changed. Most of our day to day activities play out in this way. Yet when religion becomes central to someones life, there's a complete absence of it. A void of reason, where they put up a barrier between themselves and others (even if they mean well). Why are people so willing to let something based on the complete lack of evidence control their lives through commands and a hierarchy of organized worship?wis3boi

Correct, because skepticism and logic are not innate in any human, it is a learned ability.  It's also great that were were not born skeptics, because if we were skeptical as a child when our parents taught us not to touch fire, or go in the river with crocodiles in it, we'd be dead.  Once you reach an old enough age, you no longer need to do this and can safely be skeptical of claims that people tell you, but many do not...they continue on in the innate appeal to what others tell them.

Logic seems to be at the core of the human experience, however.theone86

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="MissLibrarian"] People's knowledge of the world often depends on what someone who's trusted is telling them. Few of us actually learned that kettles are dangerous because we scalded ourselves, but neither did we automatically know boiling water would burn us - we were warned from a young age by our parents or mentors of the danger. Religious organisations require a large and faithful congregations in order to maintain their positions of power and wealth. They preach lies to their willing believers in order to make their position seem plausible. When people ask why fossils exist they say God put them there and because the congregation have faith in their leaders more than learned scientist or whoever they trust and believe them despite that being completely illogical. theone86

Correct, because skepticism and logic are not innate in any human, it is a learned ability.  It's also great that were were not born skeptics, because if we were skeptical as a child when our parents taught us not to touch fire, or go in the river with crocodiles in it, we'd be dead.  Once you reach an old enough age, you no longer need to do this and can safely be skeptical of claims that people tell you, but many do not...they continue on in the innate appeal to what others tell them.

What I mean is our natural instinct is to take whatever our parents say is true when we're kids, and we seek for patterns (even when there are none).  Being skeptical and rational are not our default course of action.  Your parents don't have to show you the stove is hot and the burns it causes by touching it, you just accept it.  We are born to take things on pure faith.

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="playmynutz"]Question #1 on exam: what is the answer to this question? Answer: no suffient evidence to answer. WRONG Can't determine faith is not real by lack of evidence. That's like thinking "what we don't know or can't prove is wrong/nonexistent"Murderstyle75

That's why we have the science thing.